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[adamsapple]

So?. A lot of those games were made without MS involvement at all.

You're saying games like Forza and Halo were made without MS's involvement ?

Even a game like Psychonauts 2 which would not exist as it does without MS ?

If you're talking about Returnal, yeah I agree, that game was definitely made without MS's involvement.

Good catch

You are taking about something unrelated entirely. I am talking about what this thread is about.

No, we're both talking about things with exactly the same relevance right now.

What this thread is about is releases from MS first party studios. The ‘level of involvement’ argument makes no sense in this context.

It'll never be not funny when people bring that up without looking at publisher rankings and which publisher had games in the most GoTY award winning lists.

Additional chuckle for people feigning worry about not seeing new announcements one month *before* the showcase, where you'll get the announcements.

I'm expecting some users to worry about it all the way up to the evening of 11th June.

 

[Kimahri]

Nah. One AAA game per month isn’t feasible.

I believe Microsoft’s stated aim is to have at least one per quarter, and some AA level stuff in between. You’d probably get more than that down the line, but 12 is infeasible and probably not worth it.

I'll agree it's not worth it. But not feasible? Nah, nonsense. It all depends on scope. One per month would give each of their 12 studios (not counting multiple teams at several studios) precisely 3 years to churn out a AAA game. Which is feasible, depending on scope and scale. Now, not every game needs to be a development hell game like Halo Infinite, or be gigantuar in scale like Elder Scrolls and Ubisoft games.

AAA can be a polished high quality action game that takes you 10-15 hours to finish.

I guess it depends on what your definition of a AAA game is.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You're saying games like Forza and Halo were made without MS's involvement?

A lot ≠ All.

Even a game like Psychonauts 2 which would not exist as it does without MS ?

What? P2 was basically done before MS acquisition. And even beyond that, MS was not involve in the the creation and development of that IP.

If you're talking about Returnal, yeah I agree, that game was definitely made without MS's involvement.

I am not talking about Returnal. And if you thought that...Yikes..

Good catch



No, we're both talking about things with exactly the same relevance right now.

"Exact same Relevance right now?"

You are talking about amazon, and games made without MS involvement= Zero Relevance to this topic.


I am taking about about 3 things with my playful comment:

1. The fact that some dumb people use MS resources money/infrastructre to basically say: No one (Sony) is going to be able to compete against MS.


2. The fact the money/infrastructure (resources) are not guarantees of success.


3. The historic struggle of Xbox creating new IP AAA GOTY contenders in consistent fashion.

It'll never be not funny when people bring that up without looking at publisher rankings and which publisher had games in the most GoTY award winning lists.

How ironic. Bite your tongue much?

Additional chuckle for people feigning worry about not seeing new announcements one month *before* the showcase, where you'll get the announcements.

Every side does that.

 

[adamsapple]

What? P2 was basically done before MS acquisition. And even beyond that, MS was not involve in the the creation and development of that IP.

"With Psychonauts 2, we could see the end of our budget coming up, and so we had cut a lot of stuff [...] We had cut our boss fights. Now we are able to put those back in, and we're like 'we think people would have noticed if we didn't have those boss fights'. Being able to complete the game in the way that it was meant to be was very important."


It would literally be lesser of a game without MS's direct involvement.

I am not talking about Returnal. And if you thought that...Yikes..

^--------------v
joke --^ head v

I am taking about about 3 things with my playful comment:

1. The fact that some dumb people use MS resources money/infrastructre to basically say: No one (Sony) is going to be able to compete against MS.

2. The fact the money/infrastructure (resources) are not guarantees of success.

3. The historic struggle of Xbox creating new IP AAA GOTY contenders in consistent fashion.

1. I don't think anyone has said that in any recent posts in this topic, at least not after the bump.
2. ok ?
3. the biggest games of this year so far are all sequels as well. Creating new IP doesn't need to correlate with successful and/or award winning games.

How ironic. Bite your tongue much?

I don't see the irony you're pointing out lol. Am I calling out any other publisher or console maker in any of my posts ? nah.

Every side does that.

Let's not perpetuate that cycle then. We know there's a big show coming in a months time. We'll all get the announcements we crave there.

delete

boooooo

 

[Papacheeks]

Unless dev times end up doubling again, I'll be impressed if they don't.

With the aforementioned 36 studios, several of which have multiple teams and projects, 12 AAA games per year is not far fetched at all.

Outside of Established studios with their own management gif projects most internally managed studies by MICRISOFT all seem to have project issues.

343, RARE, Undead labs, The Initiative all have issues. Developers like obsidian are self contained and work at a very effective clip.

 

[Topher]

boooooo

Yeah....I totally misread your post.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Well this year they have forza and starfield. They need to get to apoint where they have more than one or two big games out a year

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

"With Psychonauts 2, we could see the end of our budget coming up, and so we had cut a lot of stuff [...] We had cut our boss fights. Now we are able to put those back in, and we're like 'we think people would have noticed if we didn't have those boss fights'. Being able to complete the game in the way that it was meant to be was very important."


It would literally be lesser of a game without MS's direct involvement.

And you believe that? PR talk at it's finest. And even if we considered that at face value...the end product dosen't reflect A Triple Trillion Dollar Company level of influx of money and resources that improve dramatically the final product.

^--------------v
joke --^ head v

Jokes meant to be funny tho.

1. I don't think anyone has said that in any recent posts in this topic, at least not after the bump.

I didn't limited that point to this topic. Even (well informed people) keep using this kind or argument.

2. ok?

Ok?

3. the biggest games of this year so far are all sequels as well. Creating new IP doesn't need to correlate with successful and/or award winning games.

3. The categoric specificity use of "New AAA IP GOTY contenders" is mean to avoid generalization that tend to produce unfocus disyuntives between a conversation/debate.

I don't see the irony you're pointing out lol. Am I calling out any other publisher or console maker in any of my posts ? nah.

The irony is no put on any publisher or console market but yourself talking about other people which (ironically) do what you are doing.

let's not perpetuate that cycle then.

What cycle?
Toxic fanboy Hyperbolic Narratives: Sure.

Criticism and playful jokes? What are we? SnowFlakes ?

We know there's a big show coming in a months time. We'll all get the announcements we crave there.

I don't crave any announcement. MS issue is actually: 'The Steady Flow of Great Games'. which is the actual point in this .

Booooo

Dates, date, dates.

 

[Roberts]

And you believe that? PR talk at it's finest. And even if we considered that at face value...the end product dosen't reflect A Triple Trillion Dollar Company level of influx of money and resources that improve dramatically the final product.

It was a kickstarter project initially and the finished game is so much more. Also, out of all the people Tim Schafer is the last guy to spout some PR fluff.

 

[Three]

But you’re the one doing the bulk of the arguing in this thread that should have stayed buried. Are you an ‘xbox regular’ now?

Because people ("xbox regulars", welcome to the party) are quoting my posts obviously. Bringing up points that have been discussed months ago already.

Not saying they will. Just saying it's very possible. Why are you so sure they can't?

This was discussed more than a month ago. It's impractical and unnecessary. You can make a toilet out of solid gold too, it's possible, but why would you?

Maybe go back and read some of the month old posts in the thread like this:

it's entirely possible for Sony and MS to give away millions of PS5s and Series X for free instead of selling them. I can do the Math. Possible doesn't make it realistic or logical though.

Nobody is saying it's impossible but it's unrealistic. Xbox Series first year had almost nothing yet had growth in subs. Why would you then decide to needlessly more than quadruple production costs for the year with 12 AAA budget games a year? For fanboy wars on forums?

 

[adamsapple]

And you believe that? PR talk at it's finest. And even if we considered that at face value...the end product dosen't reflect A Triple Trillion Dollar Company level of influx of money and resources that improve dramatically the final product.

Yes, when Tim Schaefer says it, I believe it.

The rest of the post is not worth getting into so I'll just leave it at that.

Well this year they have forza and starfield. They need to get to apoint where they have more than one or two big games out a year

The hope is that there should be at least one or two more announcements for games releasing in this calendar year.

Redfall is probably the safest bet, but I'm always open for a surprise Hellblade 2 release date.

There's multiple rumblings of a Gears collection ala Halo: Anniversary so there's that.

Besides that, it's gonna be a massive show. There should be a good amount of game announcements coming sooner rather than later.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It was a kickstarter project initially and the finished game is so much more. Also, out of all the people Tim Schafer is the last guy to spout some PR fluff.

sure. so? P2 doesn't have the best graphics or the tightens gameplay. Double Fine's games tend to be quite long, with a lot of ideas but not that refined. MS 'Involvement' didn't change that.

 

[Kimahri]

Because people ("xbox regulars", welcome to the party) are quoting my posts obviously. Bringing up points that have been discussed months ago already.


This was discussed more than a month ago. It's impractical and unnecessary. You can make a toilet out of solid gold too, it's possible, but why would you?

Maybe go back and read some of the month old posts in the thread like this:


Nobody is saying it's impossible but it's unrealistic. Xbox Series first year had almost nothing yet had growth in subs. Why would you then decide to needlessly more than quadruple production costs for the year with 12 AAA budget games a year? For fanboy wars on forums?

Subscription services depend on vast amounts of different content to lure in and keep users.

That is why. If you argued against them making 12 fps games per year, then yeah, you might have had a point. But looking at their past years we're talking anything from halo to psychonauts to wasteland to ori and to forza and flight simulator.

Games that have very different appeal.

Your point isn't as strong as you think it is.

 

[adamsapple]

sure. so? P2 doesn't have the best graphics or the tightens gameplay. Double Fine's games tend to be quite long, with a lot of ideas but not that refined. MS 'Involvement' didn't change that.

I literally posted a quote directly from Tim Schaefer where he says they were going to cut the game content, including bosses, without MS's funding.

You don't get any more involved than helping fund and develop the game.

Not sure why this is the hill you're willing to die on mate.

 

[DarkMage619]

sure. so? P2 doesn't have the best graphics or the tightens gameplay. Double Fine's games tend to be quite long, with a lot of ideas but not that refined. MS 'Involvement' didn't change that.

The game was fantastic and the added funding improved the game significantly. It was a far better looking and playing game that the first. MS deserves the credit for improving the game overall.

 

[Ozriel]

Not just makes sense but is the cornerstone of the Xbox situation regarding the release of MS Firs party Studios 'great' games.

Lmao, I’m done arguing with you. I see you’re not constrained by the need to make sense.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I literally posted a quote directly from Tim Schaefer where he says they were going to cut the game content, including bosses, without MS's funding.

So? As I said already, P2 has the same issues Double Fine games tend to have. (Without MS involvement) P2 with 'MS involvement' didn't change that.

You don't get any more involved than helping fund and develop the game.

You do. You green light a game, you are involved since pre-production.

Not sure why this is the hill you're willing to die on mate.

I am just pointing out the fact the P2 was a game being made way before MS acquisition. And trying to equate MS 'involvement' as a 'MS made this game possible' is naive at best.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Lmao, I’m done arguing with you. I see you’re not constrained by the need to make sense.

You only see what you want to see.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The game was fantastic and the added funding improved the game significantly. It was a far better looking and playing game that the first. MS deserves the credit for improving the game overall.

Oh, they got the credit.

 

[adamsapple]

So? As I said already, P2 has the same issues Double Fine games tend to have. (Without MS involvement) P2 with 'MS involvement' didn't change that.

I am just pointing out the fact the P2 was a game being made way before MS acquisition. And trying to equate MS 'involvement' as a 'MS made this game possible' is naive at best.

"With Psychonauts 2, we could see the end of our budget coming up, and so we had cut a lot of stuff [...] We had cut our boss fights. Now we are able to put those back in, and we're like 'we think people would have noticed if we didn't have those boss fights'. Being able to complete the game in the way that it was meant to be was very important."



Read the direct quote again please. The game that came out, became a fan and critic favorite, and got into the top 10 highest GoTY award winning games of the last year would not have been possible otherwise.

It's not naive when the creator of the f'n game says it himself lol

The alternative is that a/ the game would have never come out because they were running out of budget, or b/ a version of the game may have come out without MS but it would be a drastically different game with a lot of cut content, less polish and likely would have felt incomplete. And undoubtedly would not do as well as the version that came out did.

This is not too dissimilar to when people say Bayonetta 2 wouldn't be possible without Nintendo's funding, even though Platinum is the one who made the game.

You do. You green light a game, you are involved since pre-production.

MS didn't buy the studio until after the game was already in kickstarter and running out of budget. Once they joined in, they financed the game to it's completion.

It does not get any more involved than that unless you're a first party when the project is greenlit in the first place.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I literally posted a quote directly from Tim Schaefer where he says they were going to cut the game content, including bosses, without MS's funding.

You don't get any more involved than helping fund and develop the game.

Not sure why this is the hill you're willing to die on mate.

Those boss fights were awesome. Really damn creative and also visually a sight to behold.

 

[adamsapple]

Lmao, I’m done arguing with you. I see you’re not constrained by the need to make sense.

It's amazing how many qualifiers MS has to go through to be considered worthy in the eyes of some 'gamers' ™.

Unprecedented even.

Those boss fights were awesome. Really damn creative and also visually a sight to behold.

The game in general is amazing, not the flashiest platformer of the year but definitely one of the most creative and best playing one for sure.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

"With Psychonauts 2, we could see the end of our budget coming up, and so we had cut a lot of stuff [...] We had cut our boss fights. Now we are able to put those back in, and we're like 'we think people would have noticed if we didn't have those boss fights'. Being able to complete the game in the way that it was meant to be was very important."



Read the direct quote again please. The game that came out, became a fan and critic favorite, and got into the top 10 highest GoTY award winning games of the last year would not have been possible otherwise.

It's not naive when the creator of the f'n game says it himself lol

The alternative is that a/ the game would have never come out because they were running out of budget, or b/ a version of the game may have come out without MS but it would be a drastically different game with a lot of cut content, less polish and likely would have felt incomplete. And undoubtedly would not do as well as the version that came out did.

This is not too dissimilar to when people say Bayonetta 2 wouldn't be possible without Nintendo's funding, even though Platinum is the one who made the game.


MS didn't buy the studio until after the game was already in kickstarter and running out of budget. Once they joined in, they financed the game to it's completion.

It does not get any more involved than that unless you're a first party when the project is greenlit in the first place.

We are just making circles. I am just going to put it in this way then:

When "Triple Trillion-Dollar Company MS and its gaming division Xbox'' green light a new IP from DoubleFine. (And I am NOT going to considerate a AAA game title, but at least High Production Value game) THEN, you will have point. And MS will be in its way to redemption.

 

[nominedomine]

It's always next year with MS. They'll have their first proper nextgen (unless we are counting the FS port) game two years after releasing their console, completely absurd. They should promise a lot less and deliver o a lot more.

 

[Riky]

It's always next year with MS. They'll have their first proper nextgen (unless we are counting the FS port) game two years after releasing their console, completely absurd. They should promise a lot less and deliver o a lot more.

Not really when they stated that the first couple of years would be cross gen before launch, unless you think telling the actual truth is completely absurd.

 

[nominedomine]

Not really when they stated that the first couple of years would be cross gen before launch, unless you think telling the actual truth is completely absurd.

Just because they said that doesn't make it any less absurd. Specially when you factor how bad their output of game had being before the generation started, they were completely unprepared.

 

[Riky]

Just because they said that doesn't make it any less absurd. Specially when you factor how bad their output of game had being before the generation started, they were completely unprepared.

So completely unprepared they won publisher of the year with the highest average in history.
Can't wait to see what they deliver when they are prepared.

 

[DarkMage619]

Just because they said that doesn't make it any less absurd. Specially when you factor how bad their output of game had being before the generation started, they were completely unprepared.

They have a game service that releases their games day one on it. They have a cloud streaming service that allows you to play new games on their old systems. They released two different SKUs at launch that was completed unprecedented. They allowed gamers to continue to play games they bought years earlier on their systems for no additional charge. MS was honest about continuing to support their older customers and they didn't impose upgrade fees or higher prices on their customers to play updated games. MS did plenty right and when it comes to hardware and services plus with their recent moves to gain more studios; they are more prepared than ever.

 

[adamsapple]

It's always next year with MS. They'll have their first proper nextgen (unless we are counting the FS port) game two years after releasing their console, completely absurd. They should promise a lot less and deliver o a lot more.

What's your criteria of a proper next gen release ?

All the big games of this year so far are cross gen. Why single out MS with that comment ?

 

[nominedomine]

So completely unprepared they won publisher of the year with the highest average in history.
Can't wait to see what they deliver when they are prepared.

Publisher of the year? What is that? Oh I see, something no one cared about until MS somehow ended up winning it by games they had very little to do with that released for other platform. Congratulations to them, I don't understand how Halo Infinite could be well reviewed, but what do I know, the game seems to be doing pretty well.

Where was all the Publisher of the year and GoTYs in the last decade?

I'm out, I don't want to get into a back and forth about this that will result in a warning. I just gave my opinion I don't want to convince you. If you are happy with their output of games, good for you.

What's your criteria of a proper next gen release ?

All the big games of this year so far are cross gen. Why single out MS with that comment ?

A nextgen game is above all, not a crossgen game. Sony at least tried to release some netxgen only games on top of their crossgen releases. I've never heard of a console that doesn't have at least some nextgen only games for 2 years.

 

[Riky]

Publisher of the year? What is that? Oh I see, something no one cared about until MS somehow ended up winning it by games they had very little to do with that released for other platform. Congratulations to them, I don't understand how Halo Infinite could be well reviewed, but what do I know, the game seems to be doing pretty well.

Where was all the Publisher of the year and GoTYs in the last decade?

It's an award you get when you release the best reviewed games of the year, it might have been mentioned a couple of times on here.
I appreciate their honesty, games are going to be cross gen for a couple of years, they are and they score the highest average in history.
Sounds like they delivered to me.

 

[nominedomine]

I appreciate their honesty, games are going to be cross gen for a couple of years, they are and they score the highest average in history.
Sounds like they delivered to me.

If you cared for Metacritic scores you wouldn't be a MS fan, where where you hidden the last 20 years? By that same logic you would have to be a massive Sony fan given all the critical success their games had. But again, you are free to like what you like but don't pretend that there is some objective nonsensical award that determines who published the best games in a year, that's a just a ridiculous notion.

 

[Riky]

If you cared for Metacritic scores you wouldn't be a MS fan, where where you hidden the last 20 years? By that same logic you would have to be a massive Sony fan given all the critical success their games had. But again, you are free to like what you like but don't pretend that there is some objective nonsensical award that determines who published the best games in a year, that's a just a ridiculous notion.

I think Metacritic has been very important for a few people over the last few years, I remember a few memes about it, they seem to have died down now though all of a sudden.

I was just pointing out your blatant hypocrisy that's all. Microsoft tell people straight from the start they expect two years of cross gen games and that's what happens, you say it's absurd.
Microsoft win publisher of the year with the highest average in the history of videogames and you describe them as unprepared.

The agenda is obvious.

 

[Vasto]

Me reading some of these comments.

 

[nominedomine]

I think Metacritic has been very important for a few people over the last few years, I remember a few memes about it, they seem to have died down now though all of a sudden.

I was just pointing out your blatant hypocrisy that's all. Microsoft tell people straight from the start they expect two years of cross gen games and that's what happens, you say it's absurd.
Microsoft win publisher of the year with the highest average in the history of videogames and you describe them as unprepared.

The agenda is obvious.

It's hypocrite for me to have an opinion? I hated what Sony did with all their crossed plan and the disinformation, I was always against it, it sucks that GoW Ragnarok is going to be crossgen or that Horizon FW and GT7 were, it makes business sense but it still sucks.

If 2021 was this great year for MS's output of games then they are really not for me. Seems like business as usual to me, Forza, Halo by 343i, some multiplats... Even Starfiled, however good it might be, is still just a game they bought that was already going to be released for Xbox anyway. I give them as much credit as I gave Sony for the Deathloop exclusivity, zero.

 

[adamsapple]

A nextgen game is above all, not a crossgen game. Sony at least tried to release some netxgen only games on top of their crossgen releases. I've never heard of a console that doesn't have at least some nextgen only games for 2 years.

We'll congrats, we're in the calendar year where at least 4 or 5 Next gen exclusive games are reportedly coming out on Xbox

Starfield, Redfall, Motorsport (tentative), Scorn, STALKER 2 (tentative).

And I'm expecting more release surprises.

 

[nominedomine]

We'll congrats, we're in the calendar year where at least 4 or 5 Next gen exclusive games are reportedly coming out on Xbox

Starfield, Redfall, Motorsport (tentative), Scorn, STALKER 2 (tentative).

And I'm expecting more release surprises.

That looks pretty good, I'm really looking forward for Redfall, see you there when it releases.

I'm happy the new Forza won't be crossgen, I might actually give it a shot (I don't like Forza Horizon but a new regular Forza might actually be something for me).

 

[TLZ]

In for the sexy bumps.