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[Deleted member 471617]

It's never too late to play a great game IMO

Agreed. I just can't play old games. Just not into them anymore.

If that's the case Booty is spread thin for this, then maybe he isn't the right person for the job. I mean, it's like maybe 10 teams in total he's managing? Meanwhile Pete Hines is managing all the Zenimax/Bethesda teams, and a third guy will manage all the ABK studios, all three under Phil Spencer. So why should XGS require two people to do what a single, more competent person could do?

Well, considering both Starfield and Redfall were just delayed, it would appear that Hines is spread thin too. I would just go with two people instead of trying to find someone to replace him because what if the same thing happens? I would go the two person route and see how that plays out. Besides, Phil promoted Booty so I don't see him going anywhere anyway.

I think you're underestimating Sony's willingness to secure exclusive content for PlayStation. Remember there were the rumors in 2020 they went around paying for timed exclusives etc. from pretty much every major developer in the industry? Well, those look more and more true as time goes on. They seem to have basically taken that strategy and kicked it into overdrive, and are probably still doing it.

Microsoft could definitely compete with some of those today, but I don't think they were willing to bother during the 2019 - 2020 period when deals for games we're getting now and into 2023/2024 might've had deals signed.

If Gotham/Avatar were timed by Sony, obviously that would have been announced already. Getting a marketing deal outside of just that, there's no exclusive content for Hogwarts Legacy. It's the same game on both platforms. Extra maps for COD MW 2, probably. And im not underestimating Sony paying for exclusive content. I just don't believe that it applies to Gotham/Avatar.

Agreed. I know Microsoft/Spencer don't like doing timed exclusive deals. I prefer Game Pass day one over timed exclusivity as it's better for me but in this case, Microsoft needs to do something but since they didn't do anything for launch, I think they'll just ride it out and however it goes, it goes.

Yeah, I agree. Tho I think there's some circumstantial evidence that Avatar might be off the table, in the off chance it's still a possibility, Microsoft needs to go hard and pay whatever price WB would want for it on Xbox as a year-long exclusive. Although unless Avatar comes out this year, it doesn't really do anything for their 2022 situation.

Avatar 2 movie is set for December. I can't see Ubisoft not releasing Avatar this November. In fact, the Starfield delay has probably helped them a lot in regards to the Xbox side of things. They should definitely get Gotham Knights but they probably won't. Plus, since it would be a timed exclusive after already being multi-platform, im sure Microsoft and WB would take a lot of heat even though they shouldn't in my opinion.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but im having a sense of Deja Vu. Hehehe.

 

[mckmas8808]

It would stupid of Sony to release God of War Ragnarok in December.


Because it’s bad for the game’s critical reception and commercial sales.

Game sales pick up around September through December. They want it out as soon as possible in the fall.

Game critics take most of December off. It’s vacation time. GOTYs are already done.

They want it to win GOTY again, like it did in 2018. Has to be released by November.

The bolded I 100% disagree with. The "industry" used to say this about games released in January and February until Capcom and Sony unlocked those months and proved people wrong. And I think they came up across that on accident. If you're right it'll probably release in February or March though. Which is what Sony does for many of their games.

Didn't ND release one of their games in December and it sold well?

 

[MacReady13]

one or two big games on Gamepass day one

Why is this a strategy when these are games available on the PS5? Exclusives are what is needed as that is what will get PS5 owners to look over the fence, not games PS5 owners will gladly pay top dollar for.

 

[Javthusiast]

To be perfectly honest while this is a huge bummer it doesn't actually affect me personally that much. Bethesda rpgs never were my thing and Redfall was never appealing to me.

I just hope we get other surprise releases for this year announced and other than that I will be happy with big third party day one game pass releases this year that also hopefully will be announced soon.

 

[adamsapple]

Why is this a strategy when these are games available on the PS5? Exclusives are what is needed as that is what will get PS5 owners to look over the fence, not games PS5 owners will gladly pay top dollar for.

well two of the biggest games that were coming out exclusively on xbox just got delayed, so unless they've been holding a bunch to release within this calender year, getting other big named games from third parties on game pass day 1 is the only real viable thing they can do with the remaining time left in the year.

 

[kyliethicc]

The bolded I 100% disagree with. The "industry" used to say this about games released in January and February until Capcom and Sony unlocked those months and proved people wrong. And I think they came up across that on accident. If you're right it'll probably release in February or March though. Which is what Sony does for many of their games.

Didn't ND release one of their games in December and it sold well?

No.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Agreed. I just can't play old games. Just not into them anymore.\

Eh, it is what it is I guess. I have a ball playing retro games I missed out on back in the day, a lot of them are still among the best the industry's had IMHO.

Well, considering both Starfield and Redfall were just delayed, it would appear that Hines is spread thin too. I would just go with two people instead of trying to find someone to replace him because what if the same thing happens? I would go the two person route and see how that plays out. Besides, Phil promoted Booty so I don't see him going anywhere anyway.

The issue with hiring two people for the part, is that they have to pay two salaries, plus there could be some ego-clashing and headbutting between Booty and whoever they'd have to share those duties with. Unless they split XGS into two separate units and put Booty in charge of one (let's say, the live-service GaaS part) and someone else in charge of the other part focused on non live-service, non-GaaS content.

As for Hines, I can excuse his part on the Starfield & RedFall delays since he's had to integrate into the rest of Xbox division upper management, plus I don't necessarily think it was his decision to run with the original release dates for those games (though if he was able to veto them he should've).

If Gotham/Avatar were timed by Sony, obviously that would have been announced already. Getting a marketing deal outside of just that, there's no exclusive content for Hogwarts Legacy. It's the same game on both platforms. Extra maps for COD MW 2, probably. And im not underestimating Sony paying for exclusive content. I just don't believe that it applies to Gotham/Avatar.

Well, as Heisenberg007 linked to in this thread (on the last page I believe), if you search PS and Xbox's official YT pages you'll see things like Gotham Knights pre-order video trailers on PS's page but not Xbox's, and the official Avatar trailer on PS's channel, but again, not on Xbox's. So it's things like that which could lead one to think Sony have comarketing rights to those games, and are just waiting until closer in the year to actually start leveraging it, since they're later into the Fall as far as releases are concerned.

Also I didn't know Avatar 2 was coming out so soon xD. Thought that was a 2023 movie, easy.

Agreed. I know Microsoft/Spencer don't like doing timed exclusive deals. I prefer Game Pass day one over timed exclusivity as it's better for me but in this case, Microsoft needs to do something but since they didn't do anything for launch, I think they'll just ride it out and however it goes, it goes.

Avatar 2 movie is set for December. I can't see Ubisoft not releasing Avatar this November. In fact, the Starfield delay has probably helped them a lot in regards to the Xbox side of things. They should definitely get Gotham Knights but they probably won't. Plus, since it would be a timed exclusive after already being multi-platform, im sure Microsoft and WB would take a lot of heat even though they shouldn't in my opinion.

That is an optics issue they'd have to deal with, true. But this is some potential critical type of moment for Xbox as a gaming initiative. Can they risk whatever momentum they had from earlier in the year petering out and picking back up (maybe) at a later date?

 

[Hezekiah]

Todd Howard himself has said in an old interview that there's a reason why Fallout never had vehicles, and it's because their studio could never figure out how to make it functional. (from an interview with Insomniac's Ted Price before you accuse me of making up the interview)
Since Bethesda is stubbornly still trying to iterate on their Creation Engine, I have zero problem believing the person who said that the flight systems in Starfield were a mess. No reason to doubt that at all. You remember horse riding in Skyrim?

It's amazing they haven't created a new one, instead sticking to janky engine that feels older than over a decade.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Eh, it is what it is I guess. I have a ball playing retro games I missed out on back in the day, a lot of them are still among the best the industry's had IMHO.

I'm 43 and started with NES. Anything that I didn't complete or play at the time is simply never going to be played. Just not into all the retro games. I agree with a lot of them being the industry's best.

The issue with hiring two people for the part, is that they have to pay two salaries, plus there could be some ego-clashing and headbutting between Booty and whoever they'd have to share those duties with. Unless they split XGS into two separate units and put Booty in charge of one (let's say, the live-service GaaS part) and someone else in charge of the other part focused on non live-service, non-GaaS content.

As for Hines, I can excuse his part on the Starfield & RedFall delays since he's had to integrate into the rest of Xbox division upper management, plus I don't necessarily think it was his decision to run with the original release dates for those games (though if he was able to veto them he should've).

The second part in regards to Booty is what I would do. There's 14 studios so I would give each person in charge, 7 studios.

Agreed.

Well, as Heisenberg007 Heisenberg007 linked to in this thread (on the last page I believe), if you search PS and Xbox's official YT pages you'll see things like Gotham Knights pre-order video trailers on PS's page but not Xbox's, and the official Avatar trailer on PS's channel, but again, not on Xbox's. So it's things like that which could lead one to think Sony have comarketing rights to those games, and are just waiting until closer in the year to actually start leveraging it, since they're later into the Fall as far as releases are concerned.

Also I didn't know Avatar 2 was coming out so soon xD. Thought that was a 2023 movie, easy.

I just checked the Xbox/PlayStation YouTube channels and it's weird. The pre-order 33 second trailer is on PS but not Xbox while the 13 minute gameplay trailer is on Xbox but not PS. Also, during that gameplay video, there's no button prompts. They've been "deleted" so to speak. Normally, you'll see PS/Xbox prompts. You're right about Avatar. The trailer is on PS but not Xbox while both have the video that details the snowdrop engine for the game. Definitely weird.

Avatar 2 had it's trailer last week or so and it's December 2nd or something like that. I'm expecting Avatar game to be either November 11th or November 18th.

That is an optics issue they'd have to deal with, true. But this is some potential critical type of moment for Xbox as a gaming initiative. Can they risk whatever momentum they had from earlier in the year petering out and picking back up (maybe) at a later date?

I think as of now, their momentum is nearly gone. If their showcase is great, then they can somewhat rebound but if it's disappointing (which is what im leaning towards as all my hype and interest is pretty much gone as even though Bethesda said gameplay deep dive soon, it's weird that they said soon and not on the Xbox Games Showcase. Announcing the delays after last weekend's outage/DRM issues sure as hell didn't help.

 

[kingfey]

It's amazing they haven't created a new one, instead sticking to janky engine that feels older than over a decade.

Creating engine takes time and familiarity. Not worth it, with out changing everything.

 

[Hezekiah]

Creating engine takes time and familiarity. Not worth it, with out changing everything.

It is when you've been shitting out games filled with bugs, and mechanics that look like they're from the Stone Age.

 

[Topher]

Creating engine takes time and familiarity. Not worth it, with out changing everything.

Have you ever created an engine?

 

[kingfey]

Have you ever created an engine?

Ask 343i with their new slip engine.

When you are making new engine, you need to teach everyone how to use these engine. It Takes a learning curve to master it.

So it's not worth it, without some serious investment.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

well two of the biggest games that were coming out exclusively on xbox just got delayed, so unless they've been holding a bunch to release within this calender year, getting other big named games from third parties on game pass day 1 is the only real viable thing they can do with the remaining time left in the year.

I think they have a couple 2022 surprises that will satisfy.

 

[kingfey]

I think they have a couple 2022 surprises that will satisfy.

There were some leakers who said Machine games were making a new wolfenstein game.
Maybe we will see that game this year.
But with them working on new Indiana game, I have my doubts.

 

[adamsapple]

There were some leakers who said Machine games were making a new wolfenstein game.
Maybe we will see that game this year.
But with them working on new Indiana game, I have my doubts.

I don't think either of those will be anywhere close to shipping this year though. 2022 may just go down as a real barren ass year for MS first party.

I'm always open for surprises but these 2 delays are brutal.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

There were some leakers who said Machine games were making a new wolfenstein game.
Maybe we will see that game this year.
But with them working on new Indiana game, I have my doubts.

That would do.
I also think some type of remaster of a major game will be one of the announcements.

 

[Punished Miku]

Announce the release date for Replaced.

The show starts with a new trailer for Starfield; artwork showing on the screen like you've never seen before. Bombastic sci-fi music soars with a live orchestra and strobe lights filling the theater. Then you see the infamous date flashing ... 11.11.22. Confusion and apprehension spreads across the audience. Could they be releasing it? Then the Starfield logo starts slowly melting like blood, and you see the word "REPLACED" flashing on the screen. 11.11.22, Gamepass. Phil drops the mic and does a backflip off stage while smoke shoots out from the floor.

 

[DragoonWalker]

The timing of this along with their very recent confidence in the release date, leads me to believe that Bethesda, by their own standards, thought the game would be ready to ship (complete, but buggy, as usual) on time. Microsoft/Phil, reviewing their first party portfolio for the showcase, probably also checked out the state of the game in general and found it not up to their standards, and forced Bethesda's hand into another year of polish/bug squashing.

It's amazing they haven't created a new one, instead sticking to janky engine that feels older than over a decade.

I feel like to the layman, a lot of this is just marketing terms and we don't really know how much of the engine is rewritten from scratch. I'm sure there are studios out there who rename their engines when they decide enough has been changed and there are others that tack on a "2.0" or "3.0" to the name. In other words, it doesn't matter and unless we're responsible for the engine we don't actually know shit.

 

[Topher]

Ask 343i

Answer: no

 

[kingfey]

Answer: no

I already answered you.

When you are making new engine, you need to teach everyone how to use these engine. It Takes a learning curve to master it.

So it's not worth it, without some serious investment.

 

[kingfey]

That would do.
I also think some type of remaster of a major game will be one of the announcements.

I want conker's bad fur day, But that is a pipe dream.

 

[kingfey]

I don't think either of those will be anywhere close to shipping this year though. 2022 may just go down as a real barren ass year for MS first party.

I'm always open for surprises but these 2 delays are brutal.

MS would be stupid, if they have nothing from their own 1st party.

Bethesda is cream on the top. They still have their owns devs too.

We can see compulsion games new game. And any suprise 3rd party exclusive game.

 

[legacy24]

this delay really killed my hype for the showcase, even if Starfield looks amazing it's such a tease that we have to wait longer for it and who knows by release they might change alot of stuff from what we see at the showcase

 

[Heisenberg007]

it's weird that they said soon and not on the Xbox Games Showcase. Announcing the delays after last weekend's outage/DRM issues sure as hell didn't help.

If the delay is primarily because they have yet to complete a section of the game (but other sections are perfectly fine) or polish the overall game, then I think there's a strong possibility that the gameplay deep-dive would be during the Xbox Game Showcase. An example of this would be TLOU 2 gameplay demo in 2018 (the final version is practically the same), but they had yet to shoot/finish other sections of the game, which is why the game released two years later. Same goes for God of War's 2016 E3 gameplay demo.

However, if the delay because the game is far from ready and whatever vertical slice they have isn't up to par in terms of graphics, gameplay mechanics, animation etc. then they won't show it next month. And in that case, I think the game is unlikely to release in H1 2023 either (which, to be honest, I don't believe anyway. I think Redfall will release in H1 2023 but Starfield is at least Q4 2023).

 

[Imtjnotu]

Starfield fans who've never seen any gameplay in this thread right now

 

[Deleted member 471617]

If the delay is primarily because they have yet to complete a section of the game (but other sections are perfectly fine) or polish the overall game, then I think there's a strong possibility that the gameplay deep-dive would be during the Xbox Game Showcase. An example of this would be TLOU 2 gameplay demo in 2018 (the final version is practically the same), but they had yet to shoot/finish other sections of the game, which is why the game released two years later. Same goes for God of War's 2016 E3 gameplay demo.

However, if the delay because the game is far from ready and whatever vertical slice they have isn't up to par in terms of graphics, gameplay mechanics, animation etc. then they won't show it next month. And in that case, I think the game is unlikely to release in H1 2023 either (which, to be honest, I don't believe anyway. I think Redfall will release in H1 2023 but Starfield is at least Q4 2023).

If they don't have a deep dive gameplay trailer ready for the showcase, I don't know why they would even say that. I believe that Redfall releases in February/March and will be Microsoft's first exclusive of 2023. I do believe that Starfield will be November 2023. I think it gets a full year delay, same as Halo Infinite.

 

[coffinbirth]

Final phase of production?

Who said that btw?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/starfield-in-the-polish-optimization-stage-of-development.1627330/

 

[reksveks]

do believe that Starfield will be November 2023. I think it gets a full year delay, same as Halo Infinite.

Would be another delay from the h1 2023 date but it's possible.

 

[TransTrender]

343 reading this press releases then looking at that November 7th Halo:INFINITE season 2 end date.

 

[MasterCornholio]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/starfield-in-the-polish-optimization-stage-of-development.1627330/

Oh didn’t know they said that, I thought it was some rumor spread by some insider. Wonder what happened?

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Would be another delay from the h1 2023 date but it's possible.

Wouldn't surprise me. If anything, November 2023 is a better chance than the first half of 2023.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

So Fanfest in June is gonna be a Starfield trailer, maybe a Perfect Dark trailer, another Sea of Thieves seasonal event, Forza reveal, maybe some Horizon dlc content, Halo season hype trailer w/ coop (lol), and I'm sure some surprises of things that are once again far off in the minimum 2 year range like Avowed.

Not even trying to hate, this is me being realistic.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It just means NEXT year will be the first party flood gates for Xbox. Again............. I'm not renewing Gamepass when mine expires in June. Most of the stuff I like I already own and MS doesn't deserve my $14.99 a month. If they offered a yearly discounted rate, I'd consider it.

 

[adamsapple]

Wouldn't surprise me. If anything, November 2023 is a better chance than the first half of 2023.

Elden Ring shows us that games can release and do great in Q1 as well.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Elden Ring shows us that games can release and do great in Q1 as well.

Agreed. I just don't think the game will be ready for release in the first half of 2022. Plus, if there's no new COD game in 2023 as has been rumored, then Starfield being November 2023 makes even more sense.

I see 2023 being Redfall, Avowed, Contraband and Starfield in that order with a few smaller AA first party games in between the major AAA releases.

 

[johnjohn]

Agreed. I just don't think the game will be ready for release in the first half of 2022. Plus, if there's no new COD game in 2023 as has been rumored, then Starfield being November 2023 makes even more sense.

I see 2023 being Redfall, Avowed, Contraband and Starfield in that order with a few smaller AA first party games in between the major AAA releases.

If they all land in 2023 like they're supposed to it'll be the best year in Xbox history. There's also the potential of Wolfenstein 3 being somewhere in there.

 

[CatLady]

Bethesda also officially announced an update to Deathloop today:

Wow, Bethesda, could you possibly be any more tasteless and tone deaf?

 

[adamsapple]

Bethesda also officially announced an update to Deathloop today:

"Today we announce the passing of our beloved friend....

"SO WHOSE UP FOR SOME SHOTS SHOTS, SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS !!"

 

[coffinbirth]

Oh didn’t know they said that, I thought it was some rumor spread by some insider. Wonder what happened?

 

[Danjin44]

 

[Andodalf]

Agreed. I just don't think the game will be ready for release in the first half of 2022. Plus, if there's no new COD game in 2023 as has been rumored, then Starfield being November 2023 makes even more sense.

I see 2023 being Redfall, Avowed, Contraband and Starfield in that order with a few smaller AA first party games in between the major AAA releases.

I don’t think there’s any reason to believe redfall stays in front of starfield

 

[GHG]

Wow, Bethesda, could you possibly be any more tasteless and tone deaf?

"Today we announce the passing of our beloved friend....

"SO WHOSE UP FOR SOME SHOTS SHOTS, SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS !!"

 

[Hendrick's]

Can't wait for the GoW delay announcement to witness the pathetic hypocrisy of this forum.

 

[adamsapple]

Can't wait for the GoW delay announcement to witness the pathetic hypocrisy of this forum.

Nice avatar

 

[azertydu91]

Can't wait for the GoW delay announcement to witness the pathetic hypocrisy of this forum.

I'm glad that you can underline yourself how you absolutely don't understand why some people are mad....It is not because 2 games are delayed, but because so far there is not a single 1st party announced for 2022....That and the constantly affirmed date from even a few weeks ago.

 

[Hendrick's]

I'm glad that you can underline yourself how you absolutely don't understand why some people are mad....It is not because 2 games are delayed, but because so far there is not a single 1st party announced for 2022....That and the constantly affirmed date from even a few weeks ago.

I'm not talking about Xbox fans who may be disappointed, but all the Sony trolls that are allowed to run rampant here. None of which had any intent to play these games either way.

I'm disappointed about SF as well, but also level headed enough to know that we won't know what's coming in 2022 until June 12th.

 

[azertydu91]

I'm not talking about Xbox fans who may be disappointed, but all the Sony trolls that are allowed to run rampant here. None of which had any intent to play these games either way.

I'm disappointed about SF as well, but also level headed enough to know that we won't know what's coming in 2022 until June 12th.

There's always trolls but thankfully there's the ignore button(even though one problem is that it automatically hides the threads they creates too even the most ardent fanboys always post at least one interesting thread).

 

[jorgejjvr]

my fear is that 2023 will simply be what 2022 was supposed to be: redfall and starfield

and the '2023' games get pushed to 2024

and we have to continue to say for xbox - "well maybe next year is the year"

and the cycle repeats itself lol

 

[begotten]

Sounds like Starfield is still going to be the main event of the next showcase which makes sense why you announce its delay beforehand.

You can't have a big gameplay showcase for it taking up 1/3 of the show and then finish it by saying "Oh BTW 11.11 isn't happening, come back in 2023"