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[Panajev2001a]

Snake oil for whom? Consumers?

If so, I wouldnt use the word 'snake oil'. Snake oil imo is something that inherently has no value. More iterative consoles might not have the same level of value as full gen jumps but there is still generally some value there and also a marketing is accurate then there is no issue there.

Promise and return are on wildly different slopes. Overhype and underdeliver, different than zero value but still snake oil adjacent if not snake oil too without the most strict definition. You deliver progressively less and less value the faster you try to iterate.

More frequent HW iterations are nonsensical given the fixed cost of getting each out and the pace of technology improvements slowing down. It perverts the console business model trying to give HW makers more money…

 

[Panajev2001a]

I beg to differ. 30 vs 60 FPS is not snake oil. 1080p vs 4K is not snake oil. Ray tracing vs cube maps is not snake oil. These are features that more powerful hardware can enable.

It is snake oil because of the cost you pay for them despite wishful thinking. To get the like for like incremental jumps you described (and mostly underused performance beside what you can easily brute force) it will take manufacturers longer and longer to do so. They will also spend more and more (and pass the costs onto you) to design these chips and sell and market those iterative upgrades.

HW design and manufacturing is not getting faster and/or cheaper, but slower and more expensive… and you want more frequent HW upgrades?

 

[tvdaXD]

I'm sorry, what? You complain that you have 3 (THREE) variants in current Gen (PS5/SeriesX/SeriesS), you may have two more (so FIVE in total), but you are glad to mainly play on PC, where there are like thousands of different possibilities?

See my response here:

Not like that dude, it's mostly for development. More resources are spent on keeping up with all the different versions of one game, and that's just stupid. Because all those resources could be better spent elsewhere.
Meanwhile PC just has one version, one with the highest available settings.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

YES... I want a high end PS5 and a high end Xbox. doesn't matter if it is priced the same as an equivalently high end PC, but having that option for the enthusiasts among the enthusiasts would be great!

I mean it would be better value to buy a PC though right? At least you can upgrade it. Consoles are great and I love my Series X but if it cost me the same as a similar spec PC, I wouldn’t have bought one.

 

[reksveks]

Overhype and underdeliver, different than zero value but still snake oil adjacent if not snake oil too without the most strict definition.

It's not snake oil unless it is marketed falsely

You deliver progressively less and less value the faster you try to iterate.

That's obviously true but we aren't talking about taking iterating to the limit but I think the opposite statement could be argued to be true (aka you deliver more value the slower you try to iterate)

More frequent HW iterations are nonsensical given the fixed cost of getting each out and the pace of technology improvements slowing down.

I think the question is whether the iteration of the console hw could speed up. Imo no doubt it could (its a lot slower than GPU's, laptop's) , There are a number of hw categories that iterate alot faster.

The issue is that software has to then support more hw configurations as ultimately users upgrade at different speeds.

I expect consoles to fall into a pattern where the individual user is upgrading even 6 years, you might get a console iteration every 3 years.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

I saw a post regarding the nvidia 4000 cards

Due to the shortages which is ongoing I see the pro incoming what I'm expecting is higher SSD say like 2tb and with the graphics side of things I'm expecting around or atleast the rumored 4070 spec size as the rumored specs is 36cu maybe 38cu with Gddr6 @2.5 and the bus speed at 192 bit where ps5 pro could use a 256bit which maybe on the level of 4070 / 4070ti level of performance that would take it to 38tflops of power

 

[OZ9000]

I would rather funds are spent on the development of the PS6 instead of a PS5 Pro.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think the question is whether the iteration of the console hw could speed up. Imo no doubt it could (its a lot slower than GPU's, laptop's) , There are a number of hw categories that iterate alot faster.

Same console size and same price range, no… you cannot unless you start in this trend of delivering less and less value with each increment. Iterating faster is not an achievement in and of itself, we are getting close and closer to the point where you want to iterate more and more on software and content production than console hardware.

The issue is that software has to then support more hw configurations as ultimately users upgrade at different speeds.

Exactly, let the PC handle that with the freedom the platform still gives its users (software modding will never be they open on consoles).

 

[Brofist]

Rather they do a cut down streamlined looking version that doesn’t look like such a monstrosity

 

[ParaSeoul]

I really like all the people who still haven't gotten it into their heads a pro model isn't happening speculating on the specs of one.

 

[UnNamed]

If there is a market of super enthusiast, why not? It would be pretty stupid to not fill that niche of market, its like not producing a 4080 card because most of the people are happy with their integrated/ low range cards.

 

[Haggard]

more power is always needed.
However the amount of extra power we`d need for meaningful differences f.e. in standardized RT GI or similar would probably not be possible with the usual console pricing.

 

[ParaSeoul]

If there is a market of super enthusiast, why not? It would be pretty stupid to not fill that niche of market, its like not producing a 4080 card because most of the people are happy with their integrated/ low range cards.

You haven't watched the video have you?

 

[Hezekiah]

We have though. The Panasonic 3DO launched at $1,398.53 when adjusted for inflation. That was your high end $1400 console.

Not sure if this is a joke but I said:

There is zero evidence that people would buy a console more than twice as expensive as any mainstream console ever released.

That thing was DOA.

 

[HBx2000]

What we actually need is a PS5 you can buy in the store.
Here in the Netherlands they are only sold in overpriced bundles.

Maybe it will happen when the PS5 Pro eventually comes out.
Makes sense with PSVR2 in mind. The PS4 Pro did wonders for the first PSVR.

So, yeah. I think I'll just wait for the PS5 Pro, that's definitely what I need.
By that time a lot more first party titles are also out and ready to play.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Looks like most people haven't watched the video actually.

 

[Hezekiah]

maybe not, maybe it would have been...
doesn't matter. people buying expensive electronics is not a rare thing.

Scalpers absolutely sold PS5s and Series Xs for 1000€ and above. people were absolutely willing to pay those prices, and that was for a piece of tech that wasn't worth the price they asked for either.
imaging what people would do if the console they bought for 1300 bucks was actually worth that money?

You know damn well that isn't true.

And the vast majority of people bought their consoles directly from Sony / Microsoft and retailers. Some see stories about scalpers and make the assumption that they were buying up millions and millions of consoles.

 

[RoadHazard]

The question is premature. We need to see the best of what the gen can offer and we are not close.

The Matrix Awakens and Hellblade 2 tell me naw, we good. Once I see the PC outclass current gen by such a margin that the gameplay is hampered...


Even then, I just buy an proprietary eGPU that slots into the SSD port w/ a passthrough. (I'm fairly sure this will work)

If you want Matrix graphics you need to be fine with 1080p (maybe 1440p) at 30fps. If you want higher resolution or framerate we need a lot more GPU power.

 

[UnNamed]

You haven't watched the video have you?

You haven't watch the video, since nothing contradicts what he say. Costs per transistor, midgen games, expensive products, don't scare a niche of customers who can already afford high end cards and other expensive products. You can't pretend they don't exist just because they don't fit your narrative.
Stop being poor.

 

[ParaSeoul]

You haven't watch the video, since nothing contradicts what he say. Costs per transistor, midgen games, expensive products, don't scare a niche of customers who can already afford high end cards and other expensive products. You can't pretend they don't exist just because they don't fit your narrative.
Stop being poor.

Had no idea this would strike a nerve. You don't really seem to understand the difference between the console and PC space if you are for this. But if you're worried about me I can afford it. Only on Gaf will you be shamed for buying a 1500 dollar tv in one thread and then called poor in another.

 

[Tomeru]

Yeah and about ten people would buy it. It's never happening!

Just like nobody bought the base one at 1000$ right?

Oh wait

 

[SSfox]

Yeah i don't think this is a thing anytime soon. Fall 2024 at earliest i would say.

 

[Azurro]

Of course it's needed, if only because 60 FPS and even 120 FPS have become a thing for the early adopters and high end console market. Those people complain about performance if a game is 30 FPS and something like the Matrix demo is simply not possible with current gen consoles at the levels of performance we have grown accustomed to and demand.
So, the solution is to bring out a higher specced model when the fabrication process and costs make it possible to do so.

 

[Cupbeam]

Don't mind if they release the pro spec, assuming the the ps5 is cross gen with ps6 and better availability at launch. Can't even get a ps5 at retail now...

 

[Jibran#one]

U can still walk in stores and not find a ps5 and series x and yet we are talking about pro versions .
Imagining not being able to get a ps5 in stores and ps5 pro launches

 

[tassletine]

No. PS5's a re still hard to get.

Also, when you have major devs releasing last gen games like Elden Ring, that aren't up to scratch on these new consoles, then something is clearly wrong. The market and home users both need to catch up.

Sony might have the sales, but I don't think they have the confidence of they consumers.

 

[nominedomine]

A PS5 Pro makes more sense than a Series S a DF never questioned the need of that. I wonder if they have word MS isn't doing a midgen upgrade.

Once there's ample supply of regular PS5s why not offer the PS5 Pro as an option?

 

[Lysandros]

No. All we need is proper next generation games that take full advantage of the fixed hardware as much as possible. I want to see the kind of evolution from Ridge Racer to Ridge Racer Type 4 on the same platform, pushing the boundaries with creativity, experience and better coding. As a console enthusiast/purist i absolutely despise the concept of mid-gen upgrades and the shallow mentality who only wants higher resolutions/frame rates with constant brute forcing at the cost of real evolution and graphic complexity.

 

[GymWolf]

Some people want the best hardware money can buy in their console, so yeah, we need a ps5 pro.

 

[BlueAlpaca]

Maybe it's better to skip PS5 Pro and just release PS6 early, like November 2025.

 

[STARSBarry]

I didn’t know that. Played guardians on console and it looked amazing.

do you have a comparison?

I tried really hard to find a comparison video that had the area that made it really apparent was mission 6 when you get to play around in the hub city and the mission after.

Originally I had it on my PS5 for my first playthrough but as gamepass gave me it on PC when I took it for abouther spin (wanted to get the best ending) on that all the reflective surfaces etc there just looked so much better with the PC RT on, I believe this is because the console RT can't do glass due to the huge preformance cost of transparent reflections.



This video shows a few clips involving that. Naturally details and other effects are cranked higher on PC (I have an RTX 3080) which alongside DLSS allows me to run it with all features on at over a steady 90FPS, it really is transformative specifically for the visuals of this game.

So when I look at consoles already struggling with cutting specific RT components just to be able to run at 30FPS at lower res... I think yeah I want this resolved with better ray tracing preformance.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Some people want the best hardware money can buy in their console, so yeah, we need a ps5 pro.

Let's say someone is getting a second ps5 for another room or home... Why not get the new PRO model... I agree with you.

 

[NT80]

U can still walk in stores and not find a ps5 and series x and yet we are talking about pro versions .
Imagining not being able to get a ps5 in stores and ps5 pro launches

But a PS5 pro if it's happening wouldn't be launching any time soon. Maybe in 2 to 3 years.

 

[GymWolf]

Let's say someone is getting a second ps5 for another room or home... Why not get the new PRO model... I agree with you.

Well the major reason to buy a pro is that you want a more powerfull console, if you just want another ps5, a vanilla is perfectly ok, especially when the pro cost more money.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Some people want the best hardware money can buy in their console, so yeah, we need a ps5 pro.

That wasn't the reason the Pro models happened last gen.

 

[GymWolf]

That wasn't the reason the Pro models happened last gen.

But it is the reason why some people buy it.

 

[TheKnownUnknown]

Perfectly fine with both consoles. Not like they'd make a much more powerful console at an attractive price. Get too pricey and you're better off with a pc you can keep upgrading.

 

[ParaSeoul]

But it is the reason why some people buy it.

I'm sure but the models we have now aren't really struggling with that much with anything so. Plus the other factors limiting production it doesn't end up being worth it.

 

[nominedomine]

If it makes sense for MS to have the Series S and Series X now why can't Sony have a PS5 and PS5 Pro in the future?

A PS5 Pro wouldn't sell as much as the regular PS5 and could be a way for Sony to put more consoles in the market by charging a premium for it and using a different node so that it doesn't get in the way of the regular PS5 supply.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm sure but the models we have now aren't really struggling with that much with anything so. Plus the other factors limiting production it doesn't end up being worth it.

Dude...every game that doesn't run at native4k and rock solid 60 frames with ultra details is "struggling" if you are the type of guy who always want the best performances.

Horizon 2 looking like shit in performance mode is "struggling"


It is all relative.

 

[Markio128]

Yes, lets cause developers even more headaches by adding another 2 consoles to the market. Makes sense.

 

[gundalf]

We finally have great CPUs but the GPUs could be indeed better, me personally I just want a PS5 Slim, OG PS5 is a beast.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Maybe.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Horizon 2 looking like shit in performance mode is "struggling"

I doubt thats actually related to the power of the PS5 and probably more just due to Guerilla having the 60fps mode be an after thought. It is still 1800p and has the same graphical detail. Its a bug that would probably carry over to a hypothetical Pro mode.

 

[nominedomine]

Yes, lets cause developers even more headaches by adding another 2 consoles to the market. Makes sense.

I doubt the PS5 Pro would cause any more problems to them than the Series S already does.

 

[DragonNCM]

Yes we do, in Nov 2024.

And I will buy it

If....you find it....till.....2026.....

 

[samoilaaa]

If you want ray tracing at 60fps and a decent resolution a Pro version is a necessity. There’s still a lot of AAA games that aren’t 4K 60fps either. I would buy a pro in a second but unfortunately we’re 3-4 years out I think.

exactly games will be way more demanding starting 2023 and a pro will be necessary for 60 fps with all the goodies like ray tracing , people think that with 10 tf you will be able to run 2024+ games at 60 fps with high settings

 

[Majormaxxx]

Well the major reason to buy a pro is that you want a more powerfull console, if you just want another ps5, a vanilla is perfectly ok, especially when the pro cost more money.

I meant - if you are getting a second console, getting a pro is a bonus. You put the old one to use as a second one, and use the brand new pro. Otherwise, let's say you get a second console 3-4 years after the ps5 is out. And it is exactly the same - no improvement. That is a bummer.

 

[GymWolf]

I doubt thats actually related to the power of the PS5 and probably more just due to Guerilla having the 60fps mode be an after thought. It is still 1800p and has the same graphical detail. Its a bug that would probably carry over to a hypothetical Pro mode.

Maybe i wasn't clear enough...even the fact that you have 2 modes because the 4k mode can't do 60 fps is a form of struggling dude.

With a more powerfull hardware you don't have to chose between res and framerate because you can have both.

 

[Markio128]

Who’s really that arsed about RT on consoles? I mean, it’s nice and everything (R&C and Spider-Man had an initial wow-factor, which soon wore off), but it doesn’t make a game any more fun. And to be honest, we really don’t know what these consoles are capable of yet until developers have had more experience with them.