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[IbizaPocholo]

It Takes Almost 300 Days for Gran Turismo 7 Developers to Make One of the Game's Cars

Polyphony Digital CEO and Gran Turismo 7 producer Kazunori Yamauchi shares that it takes almost 300 days to create a car from scratch.

gamerant.com

Kazunori Yamauchi, CEO of Polyphony Digital and Producer of Gran Turismo 7, has stated in an interview that it takes nearly 300 days to create one of the game's cars when starting from scratch. Gran Turismo is a series known in part for the attention to detail it pays to each of the cars in its roster, so it would make sense that the timeline to create one in Gran Turismo 7 would be extensive, even if not many would expect it to be almost a year.

Speaking to Impress, Kazunori Yamauchi has stated that it takes roughly 270 days to create one of Gran Turismo 7's cars from scratch, and the current output should be around 60 cars per year. He also stated that while he acknowledges getting requests for the return of vehicles like the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 4, because of the lengthy process it takes to create a car and limited resources at Polyphony, he asks for fans to understand if they have not. Something else he admitted to is the gap between what fans want versus what he imagines, meaning that even if he is aware of fan expectations, there is no guarantee that fan favorites will arrive in future content updates for Gran Turismo 7.

Although Gran Turismo recently broke a sales milestone, having sold about 90 million copies since the series debuted, Yamauchi could potentially be referring to what the staff of Polyphony Digital can reasonably do since the studio has roughly 200 employees working there. If the goal is to create 60 cars a year while one takes 270 days, assumptions can be made that the developers have to balance creating cars that fit Polyphony Digital's vision with the ones fans have requested.

 

[joedan]

The quest for realism in game graphics is economically unsustainable.

 

[Kupfer]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

 

[64bitmodels]

quick reminder that in GT2 it took like 1 week to fully program a car in iirc
Video games have come a long fucking way

 

[JimRyanGOAT]

Polyphony are the best

But they aren't efficient, and this is beyond perfectionism

But what do I know, I just go room room

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

There's no way it only takes 20 real days for that. Sound recording, interiors, exteriors, etc...it's so much work they put into these games nowadays it's crazy.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

These guys need to find better workflow or hire more people or offload some of the tasks to another developer.

Polyphony are the best

But they aren't efficient, and this is beyond perfectionism

But what do I know, I just go room room

This is the problem. You have to know where to draw the line. I mean fuck these guys are modelling in a car's fuel cap warning label FFS. I believe this kind of detail is also now present in Forza Horizon 5 but I may be wrong on that.

I mean who the fuck is going to even bother with stuff like that after the first 2 or 3 screenshots. Is it worth adding that in (if it takes an extra hour or day) just for screenshots?

 

[20cent]

This is BS.

2 weeks top, with interior, for a professional 3D modeler.
Maybe 1 month, taking their time, if they really make every single parts and bits of the car.

 

[TGO]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

I'm going with this because if it was 300 days
It would take them nearly a decade to do 10 cars

 

[Crayon]

 

[00Magnum Gaming]

This is BS.

2 weeks top, with interior, for a professional 3D modeler.
Maybe 1 month, taking their time, if they really make every single parts and bits of the car.

Polyphony still using "fake news" I see.

 

[SirTerry-T]

300 days? That's some P.R, cooking the books bullshit.
I have been part of dev teams that have artists creating licensed vehicles, no way does it take 300 fucking days

Bloody slackers...

 

[AJUMP23]

Because they have tiny hands or work slow?

 

[Synless]

The quest for realism in game graphics is economically unsustainable.

No, it’s just where AI will come in and fill the gaps in.

 

[Icymanipulator]

All this tells me is that they need to clean up their development pipeline.


My guess is that’s it’s probably have a bunch of legacy staff and this is how it’s always been done, so that’s how they will continue to do it. Sony seems to give Kazunori complete freedom. He’s always done things his way regardless of efficiency or time constraints.

 

[Killer8]

At some point we surely reach a point of diminishing returns with car modelling and things like lighting and materials become more important for realism.

PD are perfectionists though, so probably wouldn't be receptive to the "make sloppier but more cars" idea.

 

[Elysion]

Are they re-creating their car models for every new GT game or what? Surely they can just re-use the high-res models they‘ve been making since the PS3 days? I even remember interviews from the PS3 era where Yamauchi said that they‘re making new car models so detailed that they’re future proof. Then again, I would’ve thought asset creation like this has long been outsourced. At this point PD should have a huge archive of highly detailed models for 1000+ cars or so, that they can just import into whatever the newest GT game is. I really don’t understand what‘s so hard about this; PD‘s excuse reminds me of Gamefreak‘s excuse for why they can’t have all Pokemon in their games anymore lol.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

This is BS.

2 weeks top, with interior, for a professional 3D modeler.
Maybe 1 month, taking their time, if they really make every single parts and bits of the car.

Your statement is BS.

Now think of all the design, dev and game systems a "car" entails -

• geometry e.g. modelling (your only point), LOD (not in your point)
• animation e.g. shocks, tires, body roll, (inverse) kinematics for dependent GEO, etc
• physics e.g. fuel, friction, air, inertia, mass, crashes, damage, settings to tweak
• textures/liveries/iterations etc (maybe half a point by you here)
• lighting e.g. materials/shaders etc
• audio e.g. surfaces
• optimisation
• design changes
• car manufacturer changes
• adjustments/fixes
• programming e.g. specific cars require unique code or feature elements
• refactoring
• dynamism e.g. game interactions, feedback to player, weather environment, road conditions/handling
• feedback from playtests, car nuts, driving pros
• testing/QA

I could keep going. When they factor days such as 300 to produce nothing to fully in game they calculate based on FTE (full time resource), so you see 300 days across all studio resources to deliver one fully working car. They'd likely have many staff for each of those disciplines so within 300 days they could probably output 6-12 cars based on those resources already working on this stuff. Each staff member isn't required all day every day, they can do other work within their own 300 days.

EDIT: I guess the car manufacturer solid modelling and simulations digital assets aren't "exportable/usable" enough to a game engine or dev or optimisation process. I'm sure they share assets etc but you have to wonder how compatible those processes are? Afterall the car industry massively uses CAD, sister to MAX (widely used in gaming dev). When you look at marketing departments around cars they have all sorts of 3D models, marketing photos, materials, animations, technical drawings and assets to go by. I wonder how streamlined into the driving games it could become.

 

[Unknown?]

300 days? That's some P.R, cooking the books bullshit.
I have been part of dev teams that have artists creating licensed vehicles, no way does it take 300 fucking days

Bloody slackers...

Probably have people working on multiple things not just dedicated to modeling?

 

[Anchovie123]

I believe it as I remember reading something similar for the cars in Driveclub. I believe theres a lot of reference data gathered from the cars in person aswell witch probably adds a lot to the time too.

I looked it up.

51 Details About DRIVECLUB on PS4

As you might have noticed in recent trailers, Evolution Studios' forthcoming PS4 racer Driveclub really is a looker. But until you see it up close it's hard to appreciate just how much effort the team has gone to ensure it really pushes at the boundaries of gamers' expectations.

blog.playstation.com

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Its not one person working on a single car, they have over 300 employees. Something is off with this interview or got lost in translation because that number is just ridiculous. If they are to deliver 60 cars in a year that means they were modeling these cars even during GTS to catch up to 2022....so yes, the statement is bullshit. When GTS came out I remember one of the developers mentioned it takes them about a couple of months per car which is a much more realistic number. Modeling is the least time it takes, a skilled 3D artist can whip out perfection in less than 2 weeks, its the other stuff that needs to be added until its considered finished. So again, that statement is a massive exaggeration and makes no sense in todays world where we have so many tools to create these beauties, it's not 1999 anymore.

EDIT: Here is the article from 2 years ago, so yes saying it takes almost a full year for one car is ..... BS

Gran Turismo Car Models Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India

Back in August 2018, we brought you some rather interesting information on the inner workings of the Gran Turismo series: after two decades of almost exclusive in-house development, Polyphony Digital had decided to bring in some external talent by outsourcing some of its vehicle modeling tasks. W

www.gtplanet.net

Anchovie123

True but also remember Polyphony have been doing this for a very long time. They dont start from scratch every game unless its a brand new model. Especially models that were featured in previous games, they have reference photos, sound bites etc. Also cars from GTS are pretty much just ported in 4K for GT7, they were always modeled to perfection but now on PS5 they can upload them without limitations. Driveclub team is smaller, they also probably had less connections unlike Polyphony that is a sponsor for FIA, literally any car brand knows GT name so they probably have much easier time getting all the source material for their game. Though Driveclub did a great job and I really miss it never became a franchise.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This is BS.

2 weeks top, with interior, for a professional 3D modeler.
Maybe 1 month, taking their time, if they really make every single parts and bits of the car.

it seems excessive and maybe this shouldn't be considered like something to be proud and more like a red flag for an inefficient workflow.

but the Physics simulation or some werid network pipeline.

or acquire the car licenses or some weird legal shit. are taken into consideration..

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Your statement is BS.

Now think of all the design, dev and game systems a "car" entails -

• geometry e.g. modelling (your only point), LOD (not in your point)
• animation e.g. shocks, tires, body roll, (inverse) kinematics for dependent GEO, etc
• physics e.g. fuel, friction, air, inertia, mass, crashes, damage, settings to tweak
• textures/liveries/iterations etc (maybe half a point by you here)
• lighting e.g. materials/shaders etc
• audio e.g. surfaces
• optimisation
• design changes
• car manufacturer changes
• adjustments/fixes
• programming e.g. specific cars require unique code or feature elements
• refactoring
• dynamism e.g. game interactions, feedback to player, weather environment, road conditions/handling
• feedback from playtests, car nuts, driving pros
• testing/QA

I could keep going. When they factor days such as 300 to produce nothing to fully in game they calculate based on FTE (full time resource), so you see 300 days across all studio resources to deliver one fully working car. They'd likely have many staff for each of those disciplines so within 300 days they could probably output 6-12 cars based on those resources already working on this stuff. Each staff member isn't required all day every day, they can do other work within their own 300 days.

EDIT: I guess the car manufacturer solid modelling and simulations digital assets aren't "exportable/usable" enough to a game engine or dev or optimisation process. I'm sure they share assets etc but you have to wonder how compatible those processes are? Afterall the car industry massively uses CAD, sister to MAX (widely used in gaming dev). When you look at marketing departments around cars they have all sorts of 3D models, marketing photos, materials, animations, technical drawings and assets to go by. I wonder how streamlined into the driving games it could become.

if the quote is Right.....something is seriously fucked up with polyphony workflow/pipeline.

 

[20cent]

Your statement is BS.

Now think of all the design, dev and game systems a "car" entails -

• geometry e.g. modelling (your only point), LOD (not in your point)
• animation e.g. shocks, tires, body roll, (inverse) kinematics for dependent GEO, etc
• physics e.g. fuel, friction, air, inertia, mass, crashes, damage, settings to tweak
• textures/liveries/iterations etc (maybe half a point by you here)
• lighting e.g. materials/shaders etc
• audio e.g. surfaces
• optimisation
• design changes
• car manufacturer changes
• adjustments/fixes
• programming e.g. specific cars require unique code or feature elements
• refactoring
• dynamism e.g. game interactions, feedback to player, weather environment, road conditions/handling
• feedback from playtests, car nuts, driving pros
• testing/QA

I could keep going. When they factor days such as 300 to produce nothing to fully in game they calculate based on FTE (full time resource), so you see 300 days across all studio resources to deliver one fully working car. They'd likely have many staff for each of those disciplines so within 300 days they could probably output 6-12 cars based on those resources already working on this stuff. Each staff member isn't required all day every day, they can do other work within their own 300 days.

EDIT: I guess the car manufacturer solid modelling and simulations digital assets aren't "exportable/usable" enough to a game engine or dev or optimisation process. I'm sure they share assets etc but you have to wonder how compatible those processes are? Afterall the car industry massively uses CAD, sister to MAX (widely used in gaming dev). When you look at marketing departments around cars they have all sorts of 3D models, marketing photos, materials, animations, technical drawings and assets to go by. I wonder how streamlined into the driving games it could become.

You're assuming they start the implementation of all these aspects (as they claim) from scratch for each single car.
Once you have set up a model in an environment, in their game engine, all these adjustments are only numbers or sliders once a new car is added.
It takes a lot of time for the first one, sure, to calibrate the parameters. Not for the others.

CAD in product/car industry mostly use nurbs / surface generated by curves. While they can be exported into polygon models, they are not optimized and generate lot of issues. It's easier to make your own model and control the topology.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Why don't they just get the models from the car companies themselves at this point?

 

[jzosa]

It does say, "one of the game's cars". So if you read it correctly, it was just one of the cars in the game, not, "cars in the game took 300 days".

There's a difference.

 

[CJ_75]

Polyphony Digital has a 8-hour work day. 2 hours to create the game's cars, 6 hours drinking sake.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It does say, "one of the game's cars". So if you read it correctly, it was just one of the cars in the game, not, "cars in the game took 300 days".

There's a difference.

for this to be tue wouldn't need to be use "took" instead of the "takes"?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

if the quote is Right.....something is seriously fucked up with polyphony workflow/pipeline.

I reckon a lot would have to do with the different manufacturers and approvals from those partnerships. There is a ton of work liaising with another brand(s) of that scale. Lambo, Ferrari etc. I think they have a lot to deal with. The car fans are bonkers and dogmatic, let alone the brands/manufacturers/technical demands.

You're assuming they start the implementation of all these aspects (as they claim) from scratch for each single car.
Once you have set up a model in an environment, in their game engine, all these adjustments are only numbers or sliders once a new car is added.
It takes a lot of time for the first one, sure, to calibrate the parameters. Not for the others.

CAD in product/car industry mostly use nurbs / surface generated by curves. While they can be exported into polygon models, they are not optimized and generate lot of issues. It's easier to make your own model and control the topology.

No, the car industry generally has little do with gaming or animation style geo/rigging outside of marketing models etc. Also, they far and away do not use nurbs or surface modelling. They use solid modelling, some of the hired guns for marketing may use nurbs or surface from there but again it's not rigged or built for gaming. It's easier to model your own inspired by those but not directly. Again why the studio has so much work even just for modelling. You're also not accounting for changes, many of the cars in the games aren't even full production or out yet. The designs and specs and performances change right up to and after the game release.

Polyphony Digital has a 8-hour work day. 2 hours to create the game's cars, 6 hours drinking sake.

 

[poppabk]

While maybe technically true, I doubt they have to make any cars from scratch.

 

[DragoonWalker]

quick reminder that in GT2 it took like 1 week to fully program a car in iirc
Video games have come a long fucking way

More like video games have gone the wrong fucking way.

 

[jigglet]

There's no way it only takes 20 real days for that. Sound recording, interiors, exteriors, etc...it's so much work they put into these games nowadays it's crazy.

There’s no way it’s 300 either. The truth will be somewhere in the middle.

 

[jzosa]

for this to be tue wouldn't need to be use "took" instead of the "takes"?

You can say "took" or "takes". Those are just tenses. Either way, the operative word/s there is/are "one of". Just saying that this may apply only to one or a few of the cars in the game.

 

[Venom Snake]

And then you do one lap with it and you go "naah.."

 

[Kenpachii]

Time to AI the cars.

 

[Aaron Olive]

I'm going with this because if it was 300 days
It would take them nearly a decade to do 10 cars

Yeah Kaz capping, they get CAD data from the manufacturers and laser scans on site for specialty cars I’ve seen their work in many viddocs (CEDEC) over the years. 3 months minimum to final QA 6 months for multiple cars in a project.

 

[Yoboman]

Surely we are at the point they could accurately 3D scan cars?

 

[GymWolf]

Time to AI the cars.

We already have that, it's called Tesla.

 

[UnNamed]

Clearly, 300days not just for modeling, that tooks a week or less.

 

[SJRB]

"If you put 100 devs on that car it'd be ready in 3 days"

 

[Silver Wattle]

They need to retire Kaz, he is out of his depth in the modern gaming era, this time per car is pure incompetence.

 

[Bernkastel]

Not gonna lie, I thought racing sim studios actually modelled the car themselves in CATIA or Creo. The fact that car manufactures actually give them the CAD data of car models makes it less amazing, although it actually makes more sense.

 

[funking giblet]

Lots of people who don't work in development commenting here. Sounds about right, and of course they mean man days. Prob have about 10 people working around 30-60 days each per car.

 

[lyan]

You're assuming they start the implementation of all these aspects (as they claim) from scratch for each single car.
Once you have set up a model in an environment, in their game engine, all these adjustments are only numbers or sliders once a new car is added.
It takes a lot of time for the first one, sure, to calibrate the parameters. Not for the others.

CAD in product/car industry mostly use nurbs / surface generated by curves. While they can be exported into polygon models, they are not optimized and generate lot of issues. It's easier to make your own model and control the topology.

The article did say from scratch, and they can now do 60 in a year.

 

[Three]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

Probably 300 man-days. The only reason they would have that info in the first place is probably from logged time in timesheets. Those are usually a little inflated too by the employees.

 

[Three]

Not gonna lie, I thought racing sim studios actually modelled the car themselves in CATIA or Creo. The fact that car manufactures actually give them the CAD data of car models makes it less amazing, although it actually makes more sense.

They usually do for newer cars. CAD data processing doesn't necessarily mean it was from the manufacturer though.

 

[artsi]

I don't know or care about the number, but it matches with my disappointment how inefficient PD has been adding new cars to GT7.

European manufacturers like BMW, Audi and Mercedes are missing a ton of their most iconic lineup, 5-series is completely absent for example.

 

[Esppiral]

I am pretty sure companies provide high quality 3D models to work with....

 

[deriks]

Because making a digital version of a car takes longer than real life, guys

 

[Bernkastel]

They usually do for newer cars. CAD data processing doesn't necessarily mean it was from the manufacturer though.

Does not make sense. I could not find anything on 3D CAD modellers with experience in the automotive industry being hired by game companies(there are but very rare). These car companies would already have detailed CAD models of their cars. Even if they did, it would not be as detailed. Would make more sense to use the manufacturers CAD models.