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It Takes Almost 300 Days for Gran Turismo 7 Developers to Make One of the Game's Cars

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
I’ve put a good chunk of time into GT7. If it’s taking them 300 days to do one of these cars, then their time seems mismanaged. Game looks great, but nothing insane to take that long.
 

Deerock71

Member
Let's also not forget the realtime deformation of a fly hitting the windshield, utilizing Havok physics for the legs, wings, each individual eye. And thorax.
 
I’ll never understand the need for such nonsense when other devs can put out sims just as good with just as much content and in quicker fashion. Spend less time on cars and spend more resources on sound and AI and GT would be way better.

Used to be my favorite and most played franchise. Haven’t even bothered with Sport or 7.
 

Flutta

Banned
yet almost every single engine sounds totally wrong.

(I love GT but its true)
Totally agree.

Been playing it for about 2 weeks. Game is alot of fun. Sadly the only thing i didn’t like about it is the car sounds. Most of the cars sounds are identical or fake. PD has been criticized for this for a long time now and they seem not to care at all. I don’t get it. They say it’s improved now. I say bullshit!

Engine sound is a huge part for racing games and all KAZ cares about is classic music. Damn geezer needs retire already.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Kazunori Yamauchi, CEO of Polyphony Digital and Producer of Gran Turismo 7, has stated in an interview that it takes nearly 300 days to create one of the game's cars when starting from scratch.
Sounds good.

My office has about 150 or so people working here. Add in the warehouse staff and we're probably 200. So similar to PD.

If you add up all of our time working during a year and purposely funnel all those 100,000s of hours into making one pack of soap, while ignoring all the other stuff we do, we can say every new soap pack we launch takes like 50 years of manpower to make.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Totally agree.

Been playing it for about 2 weeks. Game is alot of fun. Sadly the only thing i didn’t like about it is the car sounds. Most of the cars sounds are identical or fake. PD has been criticized for this for a long time now and they seem not to care at all. I don’t get it. They say it’s improved now. I say bullshit!

Engine sound is a huge part for racing games and all KAZ cares about is classic music. Damn geezer needs retire already.

What year is this?

Arguably the only game out there that sounds better than gt7 is ACC







Stop tripping
 

squarealex

Member
I believe it as I remember reading something similar for the cars in Driveclub. I believe theres a lot of reference data gathered from the cars in person aswell witch probably adds a lot to the time too.

I looked it up.
image.png

Jesus christ...

No need to know why Evolution is Dead...
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
The manufacturers do provide CAD models but not always, especially for older cars.
CATIA is old. Its so hard to find history of CAD softwares(Moldflow history anyone?). Thankfully, Dassault made this PDF.
At Page 15. In 1981, when they released CATIA they already had so many customers from the Aerospace and Automative industry. And by 1985(at page 18), they had 400 customers. PTC's predecesssor to Creo was Pro/Engineer which released in 1987 and there was also CADKEY(now KeyCreator) which came out in 1984 and CADDS4(since around the same time CATIA released to public). Another relevant reading
This guy was a Boeing employee and they were definitely making CAD models of their products in the 80s.
 
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sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Why don't they just get the models from the car companies themselves at this point?
The Catia files used for tooling have so much shit in them, are from hundred different sub contractors made in hundred different layouts and techniques... Porting them over is more work than doing them from scratch.
 
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Neofire

Member
He's capping on this or they are intentionally hustling Sony through making development times as long as possible 🤣
 

Kvally

Banned
What year is this?

Arguably the only game out there that sounds better than gt7 is ACC







Stop tripping

Funniest post of the thread award right there.👍

I’ll never understand the need for such nonsense when other devs can put out sims just as good with just as much content and in quicker fashion. Spend less time on cars and spend more resources on sound and AI and GT would be way better.

Used to be my favorite and most played franchise. Haven’t even bothered with Sport or 7.
GT7 is a solid game. Even if you want to wait until it hits $19.99, I highly recommend it. To be clear, I am talking the single player portion of the game. I haven't even touched online.
 

cireza

Banned
They definitely took 300 days to make this car back then :

 

sinnergy

Member
If it’s anything where I work the models are heavy as shit .. made in a CAD program for example Solid Edge. I use these sometimes.

But too many polygons to handle, just as 1 object in a simple scene would work. Only a lighting setup with a hdr environment map. 25 million polygons , for our models in our industry . Textures , totally dog shit with up to 100 texture ids , models are totally not optimized for even rendering , let alone real-time . In the end you need to go in with the hand . Optimizing and correcting polygon loops, and retexture everything. Say goodbye to 3+ months of you life . I can image this is what polyphony is encountering .

Btw Optimus prime in the first movie , took about a year to model and rig. I don’t work on movies btw or games .
 
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sinnergy

Member
I am pretty sure companies provide high quality 3D models to work with....
Which are most of the time useless .. read my post. You would think that .. but they don’t . If it works for them it works .. even if the pipeline is bloated ..

So you end up with heavy models for real-time , almost no one can handle . But they don’t care .. they produce cars with these models. The models that I saw where even heavy for engineers , constructing them in Solid Edge.

Part of the problem is , that every thing in these models need to be there .. like bolts . All the small bits. So it adds up , the polygon count grows . So it’s not even their problem , they can handle this data. But if handed over to lets say marketing or a cgi studio or game studio the fun begins.

And game pipe lines are based on polygons . But a CAD program could be based on Nurbs or lines / splines .. when you convert these to polygonal meshes you need polygonal definition, so you add sub divisions or tesselattion to keep the contours .. but you need to optimize for real time rendering .

That’s why ue5 was invented 😘 maybe polyphony needs to switch to UE 5 🤣😆
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
What year is this?

Arguably the only game out there that sounds better than gt7 is ACC







Stop tripping

I think some people don't spend enough time at the track and are used to the fake "Hollywood reverb" added to other games.

The cars sound exactly like they do, IRL. I own and have owned several in the game, and the sound, especially with headphones, is pretty damned accurate. The rich-tuned pops shifting gears or letting off the gas is fantastic as well.
 
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Your statement is BS.

Now think of all the design, dev and game systems a "car" entails -
  • geometry e.g. modelling (your only point), LOD (not in your point)
  • animation e.g. shocks, tires, body roll, (inverse) kinematics for dependent GEO, etc
  • physics e.g. fuel, friction, air, inertia, mass, crashes, damage, settings to tweak
  • textures/liveries/iterations etc (maybe half a point by you here)
  • lighting e.g. materials/shaders etc
  • audio e.g. surfaces
  • optimisation
  • design changes
  • car manufacturer changes
  • adjustments/fixes
  • programming e.g. specific cars require unique code or feature elements
  • refactoring
  • dynamism e.g. game interactions, feedback to player, weather environment, road conditions/handling
  • feedback from playtests, car nuts, driving pros
  • testing/QA
I could keep going. When they factor days such as 300 to produce nothing to fully in game they calculate based on FTE (full time resource), so you see 300 days across all studio resources to deliver one fully working car. They'd likely have many staff for each of those disciplines so within 300 days they could probably output 6-12 cars based on those resources already working on this stuff. Each staff member isn't required all day every day, they can do other work within their own 300 days.

EDIT: I guess the car manufacturer solid modelling and simulations digital assets aren't "exportable/usable" enough to a game engine or dev or optimisation process. I'm sure they share assets etc but you have to wonder how compatible those processes are? Afterall the car industry massively uses CAD, sister to MAX (widely used in gaming dev). When you look at marketing departments around cars they have all sorts of 3D models, marketing photos, materials, animations, technical drawings and assets to go by. I wonder how streamlined into the driving games it could become.
He said the 270 days bs to excuse the fact they cant get the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 4. Forza has 700 cars and is way more dynamic .
Forza would take way longer make if this development process was right. Its Polyphony using their bs marketing again to defend against fans wanting the Evo. Unfortunately this still works on their supporters. Sad.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
He said the 270 days bs to excuse the fact they cant get the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 4. Forza has 700 cars and is way more dynamic .
Forza would take way longer make if this development process was right. Its Polyphony using their bs marketing again to defend against fans wanting the Evo. Unfortunately this still works on their supporters. Sad.
youtube fashion GIF
 

Kvally

Banned
He said the 270 days bs to excuse the fact they cant get the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 4. Forza has 700 cars and is way more dynamic .
Forza would take way longer make if this development process was right. Its Polyphony using their bs marketing again to defend against fans wanting the Evo. Unfortunately this still works on their supporters. Sad.
Excuse Me What GIF by Naughty Dog
 

SLB1904

Banned
ACC, RaceRoom, FM7, rFactor and Automobilista to start.

Me when I lie.

Go on find a comparison with real life for this games. Go on.

He said the 270 days bs to excuse the fact they cant get the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 4. Forza has 700 cars and is way more dynamic .
Forza would take way longer make if this development process was right. Its Polyphony using their bs marketing again to defend against fans wanting the Evo. Unfortunately this still works on their supporters. Sad.
Forza is literally reusing assets from previous games. And it's not a bad thing. You gotta do what you gotta do.
 
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treemk

Banned
He said the 270 days bs to excuse the fact they cant get the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 4. Forza has 700 cars and is way more dynamic .
Forza would take way longer make if this development process was right. Its Polyphony using their bs marketing again to defend against fans wanting the Evo. Unfortunately this still works on their supporters. Sad.
The variation and realism from car to car in Forza is trash and everyone knows it
 

Three

Member
CATIA is old. Its so hard to find history of CAD softwares(Moldflow history anyone?). Thankfully, Dassault made this PDF.
[/URL]
At Page 15. In 1981, when they released CATIA they already had so many customers from the Aerospace and Automative industry. And by 1985(at page 18), they had 400 customers. PTC's predecesssor to Creo was Pro/Engineer which released in 1987 and there was also CADKEY(now KeyCreator) which came out in 1984 and CADDS4(since around the same time CATIA released to public). Another relevant reading
[/URL]
This guy was a Boeing employee and they were definitely making CAD models of their products in the 80s.
CATIA wasn't really used that much for car models. That was more for military and aviation.

They usually made clay models and used something called UNISURF to record the model as mathematical surfaces. You might have heard of Bezier, he developed UNISURF, and it's where the bezier curves and surfaces we use today come from. Anyway, it's more the fact that that information is harder to come by today and doesn't include the entire car model, mostly just body. That's why older cars are more likely to be scanned instead of relying on some forgotten/lost incomplete format defining a car, that's more the issue and not so much how old UNISURF or CATIA are.
 

Kvally

Banned
Go on find a comparison with real life for this games. Go on.

No! Because if I take the time to post comparisons, it will just drain 8 hours out of my life and you probably won't reply and even if I got a reply you'd just ignore what I said anyway; so what I am going to do is piss and moan like an impotent jerk, and then bend over and take it up the tailpipe!
 

SLB1904

Banned
What year is it?

You guys seriously wrote off the series 10 years ago and are replying like you know whats going on?
These threads are always embarrassing.
These clueless users are the ones with most opinions

No! Because if I take the time to post comparisons, it will just drain 8 hours out of my life and you probably won't reply and even if I got a reply you'd just ignore what I said anyway; so what I am going to do is piss and moan like an impotent jerk, and then bend over and take it up the tailpipe!
Whatever Jimmy
 
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treemk

Banned
Why doesn't PD use highly valuable and protected IP from car companies so they have to do less work? Maybe if they weren't morons and were as smart as me they would have thought of that.
 
Totally agree.

Been playing it for about 2 weeks. Game is alot of fun. Sadly the only thing i didn’t like about it is the car sounds. Most of the cars sounds are identical or fake. PD has been criticized for this for a long time now and they seem not to care at all. I don’t get it. They say it’s improved now. I say bullshit!

Engine sound is a huge part for racing games and all KAZ cares about is classic music. Damn geezer needs retire already.
It's much improved. Let me guess, you think Forza Horizon 5 has great car sounds?
 
ACC, RaceRoom, FM7, rFactor and Automobilista to start.
Is this about sounds? If so, get FM7 right off that list. Fake growl to make monotone sounding cars, sound agressive. They dropped the ball compared to their FM4 days. Those sounds were a little more accurate and subdued.

ACC sounds better, easily. RaceRoom too, Rfactor maybe and Automobilista I haven't played.
 
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