rofif
Can’t Git Gud
They don’t say anything important. It’s guardians. They just say shit. It’s supposed to be funny when you catch it I guess
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LegendOfKage
Member
Larxia
Member
I get what you mean. I loved the dialogues in Guardians of the galaxy and I think it didn't suffer too much from dialogues cutting if you move too quickly, but it's a problem in so many games that you tend to be careful with that.
This really annoyed me in Final Fantasy XV. The characters talk during the dungeons, and I actually liked that, it made the atmosphere feel less oppressive, but the problem is that if you move at a regular pace, not even rushing or anything, you will ALWAYS miss the end of their lines, it always cut and move to the next one. So what you end up doing is you stop moving when they talk, if you want to be sure to hear the whole thing, but then you will have to play without any dialogues anymore until the next one, while I would have prefered having the dialogues playing while I was actually playing.
It seems like they just don't know how to time these properly.
I definitely didn't find it as annoying in Guardians of the Galaxy, but I understand where you're coming from.
TonyK
Member
I agree. Also, a lot of people criticized Callisto Protocol but one thing I loved it and it did well is that for the majority of the game the character was silent, and incoming radio messages were minimal during exploration. It was a relief, refreshing, coming from A Plague tale Requiem and this exhausting trend of characters speaking all the time.
TheGreatMusashi
Member
It’s the newest trend in video game mass accessibility. It’s the same reason games used to be more complex and leaned on the user to apply some form of general intelligence or at least some sort of gumption.
All that’s about gone now, appealing to the lowest common denominator amongst us all to sell more and more battle/season passes.
The golden years are gone. I feel a lot of us are holding on to memories and the occasional game that holds any kind of respect for the player. They’re still out there, it’s just much fewer and far between.
It will continue to get dumbed down until the mass market gets bored and hopefully another crash will happen opening the doors to new innovations and interesting ideas.
Or not, there’s a lot of psychology going into games now and the best way to trigger desired responses from players.
Maybe it will just crash internally with us “old timers” and a new era will be formed built upon hyper stimulation, handholding, addiction, and gambling under another guise.
Either way, this shit sucks man.
All that’s about gone now, appealing to the lowest common denominator amongst us all to sell more and more battle/season passes.
The golden years are gone. I feel a lot of us are holding on to memories and the occasional game that holds any kind of respect for the player. They’re still out there, it’s just much fewer and far between.
It will continue to get dumbed down until the mass market gets bored and hopefully another crash will happen opening the doors to new innovations and interesting ideas.
Or not, there’s a lot of psychology going into games now and the best way to trigger desired responses from players.
Maybe it will just crash internally with us “old timers” and a new era will be formed built upon hyper stimulation, handholding, addiction, and gambling under another guise.
Either way, this shit sucks man.
BlitzerRadic
Member
Game design will never go back to this. Puzzles are super easy now and many games will drop hints because devs dont want players to give up and quit on their game.
Boss Mog
Member
The constant hand-holding is getting a bit much these days. It's almost immediate as well now. I was pretty irritated playing GoW Ragnarok because of Atreus or Mimir constantly giving me big hints right when I got to any puzzle. Give me a minute to look at my surrounding before you start yapping ffs. Make a hint button for those who want but stfu for the rest of us.
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ValiantTraveler
Member
These were great because they don’t take place all the time and are actually very well written.
StueyDuck
Member
The biggest games (apart from the odd game here n there like a fromsoft game) are generally made for lowest common denominator.
And since gaming continues to grow and the world continues to become dumber this is just going to get worse...
Look at your average idiot tiktok video, that's who games are designed for now.
As I hit my 30s (and have less time in general for gaming) I've learnt to be extremely selective with games and not just play everything like I use to
And since gaming continues to grow and the world continues to become dumber this is just going to get worse...
Look at your average idiot tiktok video, that's who games are designed for now.
As I hit my 30s (and have less time in general for gaming) I've learnt to be extremely selective with games and not just play everything like I use to
I would strangely enjoy a sidekick that mocks you for not figuring out a certain puzzle. Or at least one that actually banters instead of the current crop of sidekicks acting like they don't know the solution while casually dropping tons of hints every other line of dialogue.
Off the top of my head Arkham Knight came super close to having something like this.
Off the top of my head Arkham Knight came super close to having something like this.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Even so, I hate dialogue being cut off by me simply moving forward in the game, even if it is rather inconsequential, so I'll just end up standing in place to listen to it.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
It was insufferable in Ragnarok. I'd walk into a room and Atreus would immediately start piping up with "hey maybe you should do the thing you've already done 20 times in other puzzles".
My guess was that it was based on how long someone is taking to solve the puzzles, but it started bad from the beginning and never really let up, and I wasn't exactly taking long to solve "freeze the thing and hit the thing". 1000 accessibility toggles and this wasn't one of them.
My guess was that it was based on how long someone is taking to solve the puzzles, but it started bad from the beginning and never really let up, and I wasn't exactly taking long to solve "freeze the thing and hit the thing". 1000 accessibility toggles and this wasn't one of them.
Little Chicken
Member
Ulysses 31
Member
I think you can turn it on low, not completely off.
GymWolf
Member
On low he only speak to move the plot, no more banter during combat.
Wildebeest
Member
Games have become so visually messy that they add another level of mess on top of that to stop you getting distracted and confused. People always telling you what to do, detective vision, GPS overlays, interactable item highlighting, and so on.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
delfrickintree
Banned
Far Cry Blood Dragon had a little gimmick about this. It kept annoying you with the tutorial for controls until you realized it was intentional.
Very few games / devs are self aware enough to respect the players intuition to figure things out for themself... You know, half the reason we play games in the first place. Eventually we will all be braindead drooling tards watching Ow My Balls on a toilet lazyboy.
Very few games / devs are self aware enough to respect the players intuition to figure things out for themself... You know, half the reason we play games in the first place. Eventually we will all be braindead drooling tards watching Ow My Balls on a toilet lazyboy.
Spaceman292
Banned
That's probably more of a problem with the visual design. The ladders are glowing nodules on a techno wall filled with glowing nodules and lines and shit.
Spaceman292
Banned
It was good but there was so much of it that the conversations got cut off by new conversations if you walked too quickly through the level
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
I think the only recent one that got it a bit right was GOTG, because they seem to approach it in meta way.
At first it starts of just as annoying as other recent games with the team constantly dropping hints and waiting for specific orders.
But as you progress through the story, they start doing it less and less, to the point of stopping altogether and just moving on their own without having to wait for orders.
This completely mirrors how the team is bonding and growing closer over the course of the story and is a pretty neat way of approaching it.
It's double meta in the sense that it also assumes the player knows what's up and also no longer needs to be bothered with somewhat obvious choices.
You can turn off cuff's chatter in forspoken, the game even pauses the game to inform you of this option; complete non issue and you're complaining for no reason
.
At first it starts of just as annoying as other recent games with the team constantly dropping hints and waiting for specific orders.
But as you progress through the story, they start doing it less and less, to the point of stopping altogether and just moving on their own without having to wait for orders.
This completely mirrors how the team is bonding and growing closer over the course of the story and is a pretty neat way of approaching it.
It's double meta in the sense that it also assumes the player knows what's up and also no longer needs to be bothered with somewhat obvious choices.
You can turn off cuff's chatter in forspoken, the game even pauses the game to inform you of this option; complete non issue and you're complaining for no reason
.
crackajack
Member
which was just the other end of the too much/ too little spectrum, an easy way out and boring/weird as hell. Both are bad, imho, but I guess I'd rather take a somewhat annoying chat over a silent protagonist. Silent feels empty, always, while so far I have not played anything that really annoyed me with too much chit chat.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Imagine if Link was constantly chattering about useless shit as you're running around Hyrule in BotW. No thanks. His silence didn't feel "empty" to me at all.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
It won’t.
Souls has been relevant, even successful, for a good decade at this point. The only devs who seriously took notes are all indie, and almost all of them have tried to out-soul Souls by making the base formula even less welcoming.
Let’s face it, Souls wouldn’t be as successful without the internet. Without coop, the games would be impossible for a lot more people. And you can bet your ass there isn’t a single soul on the planet who 100%ed a Souls game without looking at a guide. The games can push the boundaries like they do only because there’s online help to fall back on.
AAA devs and pubs know their audience. They know this is not what most people want, and wisely prefer making dumbed-down movie-like games with difficulty options rather than fully embrace a type of gameplay that would make their most precious IPs lose half their audience in the span of a single game, never to get it back.
Freeza93
Banned
The fact that this is an option speaks volumes.
Yes we know our dialogue is terrible lets make an option to turn it off.
I mean wtf? You should have a protagonist who you love hear to talk. I dont get it.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
That's not the reasoning behind it, the reasoning is maximum appeal and not everyone is going to like some protag who keeps talking/ruining puzzles, which is something they would've run into during testing.
So providing the option means everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too.
Freeza93
Banned
True to some degree, but it sold like crazy even to casuals. You cant win goty if casuals dont like it. Trust me publisher execs will take note. Even Ubisoft formula will change. Half ubi formula half elden ring formula? Sounds great to me. We will see.
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Aka Sony exclusives
lughnasadh123
Member
Seems a few things are getting conflated here. Puzzle solving hints from characters should definitely be a toggle that you have to turn on if wanted.
Chatty characters are great though. It makes the world feel even more alive by adding commentary to things around you. It's a personal taste that just suits me fine and would be ok with if there also was a toggle for those who don't care for it. Is it a problem like some want to make it out to be? No, not even close.
And before people go "B-b-b-b-but Elden Ring!" - It's open world is certainly new, but it still has many, many old, formulaic elements from past games that didn't have same broad appeal. It's a bit premature to think Devs are really going to embrace that level of obtuse design and mute character if it doesn't fit the style of game they're making. GoW and HFW also did very well sales wise, which obviously isn't the only metric otherwise everything would just be a GTA V clone.
Chatty characters are great though. It makes the world feel even more alive by adding commentary to things around you. It's a personal taste that just suits me fine and would be ok with if there also was a toggle for those who don't care for it. Is it a problem like some want to make it out to be? No, not even close.
And before people go "B-b-b-b-but Elden Ring!" - It's open world is certainly new, but it still has many, many old, formulaic elements from past games that didn't have same broad appeal. It's a bit premature to think Devs are really going to embrace that level of obtuse design and mute character if it doesn't fit the style of game they're making. GoW and HFW also did very well sales wise, which obviously isn't the only metric otherwise everything would just be a GTA V clone.
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Nah, I don't think that was it. The talking in Uncharted was entertaining, well written, felt natural.
It's not like all in game chatter is bad, it depends on how it is done. Forspoken to me seems hugely irritating, but in the original Nier it was, and still is, absolutely fantastic.
It's when they cross into this territory of never shutting up, and providing help if you take a second to paus it turns into an issue.
Quasicat
Member
This is exactly why the newest educational leadership meetings I see at work focus on repeating new content in the classroom three times. Then you need to scaffold your tests so that they are reminded of the content throughout the year so that the information will be retained.
The problem is, this transition happened pretty quickly and as much as administration is in support of it, it is seen as a waste of instruction time and most curriculum programs haven’t caught up yet. It scares me to think what the next 20 years will look like in education.
Benniewise de Clown
Banned
Going by the amount of people who have been wearing masks these past years, this answer is correct.
Vaelka
Member
I blame American writers and the overcentralization of the industry in a handful of specific American locations.
Yes it's a Japanese studio but the writers, voice actors etc are American.
Edit: I am not saying that literally only American writers do this, but all of these trends originate in the US it's the same with this absolute brain rot and obsession about politics 24/7 and reading socio-politics into everything.
Even if sites like Eurogamer for example obsess about those things too it's still to pander to American audiences and norms.
Yes it's a Japanese studio but the writers, voice actors etc are American.
Edit: I am not saying that literally only American writers do this, but all of these trends originate in the US it's the same with this absolute brain rot and obsession about politics 24/7 and reading socio-politics into everything.
Even if sites like Eurogamer for example obsess about those things too it's still to pander to American audiences and norms.
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BbMajor7th
Member
I would add to this forced tutorial overlays.
The Messenger does this and it works pretty well.
Somewhat, but I actually think it's telemetry-driven US marketing practises that have caused this. Player behaviour is now analysed in excruciating detail and 'insights'from that inform design. These kinds of things, I assume are a part of an anti-attrition design philosophy intended to keep players engaged for longer. And I imagine, for better or for worse, these things do work as intended for the majority of players, which is why they keep deploying them.
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samoilaaa
Member
unfortunately most games dont have this feature
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I want literally every game to have this feature.
I dont need you solving the puzzle for me, I dont need you constantly telling me shit.
Let me enjoy the game without someone constantly badgering me with random chit chat.
I dont know when this trend started but they better have a banter option in the settings.
Ironically: In RTS games I love the units callouts always.
Its like one of my favorite things about RTS games.
I can remember almost all the callouts for every unit in Red Alert 2, WarCraft 3 and Dawn of War.
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I have always looked at it as a tool to help tell or progress the story, but its like anything else... too much is too much.
It has me thinking, but were there companion games with the talking and such back in the 2D side scrolling days, before actual open worlds or 3D gaming? I guess not as there wasnt much spoken dialogue in those games back in the Sega and NES days.
It has me thinking, but were there companion games with the talking and such back in the 2D side scrolling days, before actual open worlds or 3D gaming? I guess not as there wasnt much spoken dialogue in those games back in the Sega and NES days.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I still can't believe how badly this very thing was in Gow Ragnarok. They literally treat us like frickin retards and don't let us solve any puzzles on our own in that game! Took away any chance of this game being one of the greats all for this trend of "accessibility", the hot new buzzword in the industry right now. The designers took the concept way too far. It's one thing to have accessibility settings that are optional, another thing to force it into gameplay so that in their effort to not exclude anyone from being able to finish the game, they forced it into treating everyone like an idiot.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
The devs of Ragnarok went to such great lengths to craft an incredible world, story, and combat system only to severely damage their game by having every solution to puzzles told to you before you even have time to think for yourself.
What were they thinking?
What were they thinking?