It's a mixed bag. PS3 is probably an exaggeration, yeah. But tracks like Interlagos, Alsace, and that weird giant loop thing, all look bad even by PS4 standards.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
It's a mixed bag. PS3 is probably an exaggeration, yeah. But tracks like Interlagos, Alsace, and that weird giant loop thing, all look bad even by PS4 standards.
Emet_bp
Member
It is incosistency that is the problem. Some tracks have great detail and good looking 3D trees etc, and some look.... a lot worse.
GT7 has the best car models with best materials and shaders that recreate real look of headlights and taillights.
On the other hand they make strange choices when it comes to the environment details. For example on the "new" Grand Valley you can find super hi-poly burger (yes - burger with french fires and other things like that) models (perfectly round with 3D modelled sesame seeds on top of the buns!) and many more highly detailed distant objects.
It's cool and all.. but let's leave that for the PS6 and now shift resources for details closer to the track like better and more dense foliage and some additional small details like small rocks etc. (like you can find in e.g. FH5).
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Slothbeing1209
Member
Yeah I saw that burger and asked "Why?"
When bigger parts of that track like mountain, rocks, grasses look ehhh.
Aight, this seals it. I am gonna buy The Order and fire it up on my CX 77" OLED TV just to see what the fuss is all about.I’m replaying The Order 1886 right now mainly to see how the visuals hold up today and holy fuck it’s still one of the nicest looking games around imo. Sure it could be higher resolution and 60fps but for a game made by developers who were used to fucking PSP development as a PS4 launch window game it’s absolutely astonishing looking.
I really can’t imagine what they would have done with PS5 hardware when they created The Order on an almost mobile phone level CPU and a sub 2 TERAFLOP GPU.
I know there was a lot of controversy at the time over the game (especially it’s length) but I have to say as a linear, cinematic, third person shooter I can’t see much wrong with it outside of maybe an overuse of QTE’s and the few annoying as fuck insta fail stealth sections. It’s a solid 7.5/10 for me and an amazing base for a sequel to improve upon. A shame we’ll never see it
So how did they do it? Art direction, giving themselves more headroom by reducing the number of rendered pixels by 40+% versus other 1920x1080 first party games, the shorter length meaning more time per asset / section or were they just focused on pushing the visual envelope as far as possible?
Another question to make my ramblings worthwhile… Would you guys take shorter games (say 6-8 hour linear games versus something like 25 hour semi open World games like God of War or 40 hour open World games like Horizon) if it meant the visual envelope continued to be really pushed like the early PS4 games such as Killzone, Second Son, The Order, Driveclub and Uncharted 4?
I’m obviously already aware the average person would take a 30-40 hour game over a prettier 8 hour one for value for money. There’s something to be said for playing something like The Order though and just admiring it’s pushing of the medium if only in a visual sense. I would watch Avatar 2 for the same reasons.
Can someone briefly explain the difference between RT and Path Tracing?
I see everyone banging on racing games' graphics. Me, personally, I never found them to be very realistic looking. Like some areas/tracks look realistic but then you jump to another one and you are instantly met with reality that the game is far from looking realistic. I dunno what it is exactly but this has always been the case with racing games. Same thing with the cars themselves. some of them look gorgeous and some look cartoony as hell. It also depends on the time of day, weather, environment etc.
Slimy, PS6 would be out by then
H . R . 2
Member
easily THE MOST beautiful game last-gen. a true visual showcase with an art direction second to none
it would look astonishing with a proper update [which is why you need to play it on a 1080 monitor to appreciate its beauty]
and a sequel would be phenomenal !
stupid Jim Ryan had to let go of RAD and sold them off to Facebook
because the game didn't sell well.
sometimes I don't get the industry.
gamers and the companies making equally idiotic, ill-advised and unkind decisions supporting trends that should never be followed
I wanted to support such technical achievements so I bought its special edition day1
some encouragement for you to give the game a try ASAP:
world-class [baked and dynamic] lighting, texture work, volumetric effects, motion blur, reflections, character details draw distance, cloth simulation etc.
areas that would need improvement: AO and shadows
(my own screenshots on a base PS4):
there were several mind-blowing moments from the game I will never forget:
the first werewolf transformation
watching people talk [fully lip-synced]
there is a scene early in the game where you walk through an alley with a butcher's shop, that was one of the most photo-realistic scenes I have ever seen in a videogame
overcast London
LOD in panoramic scenes
and so much more
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Yeah I got my first OLED late last year (48” C1). The difference it makes to games you’ve already played visually is unbelievable. Good colour precision and dialled in settings make such a huge difference. The Order is crazy looking on it probably mainly because of the TV’s amazing black levels.
It’s even the same on the Switch screen when you compare the launch console to the OLED version.
Great shots
H . R . 2
M
Musilla
E-Cat
Member
@1:16 Finally PS3 MotorStorm E3 2005 demo realized.
E-Cat
Member
You can still somewhat see the low-poly nature of the assets, but the lighting and DoF is amazing for early PS4.easily THE MOST beautiful game last-gen. a true visual showcase with an art direction second to none
it would look astonishing with a proper update [which is why you need to play it on a 1080 monitor to appreciate its beauty]
and a sequel would be phenomenal !
stupid Jim Ryan had to let go of RAD and sold them off to Facebook
because the game didn't sell well.
sometimes I don't get the industry.
gamers and the companies making equally idiotic, ill-advised and unkind decisions supporting trends that should never be followed
I wanted to support such technical achievements so I bought its special edition day1
some encouragement for you to give the game a try ASAP:
world-class [baked and dynamic] lighting, texture work, volumetric effects, motion blur, reflections, character details draw distance, cloth simulation etc.
areas that would need improvement: AO and shadows
(my own screenshots on a base PS4):
there were several mind-blowing moments from the game I will never forget:
the first werewolf transformation
watching people talk [fully lip-synced]
there is a scene early in the game where you walk through an alley with a butcher's shop, that was one of the most photo-realistic scenes I have ever seen in a videogame
overcast London
LOD in panoramic scenes
and so much more
This is a greatly appreciated post, HR2.easily THE MOST beautiful game last-gen. a true visual showcase with an art direction second to none
it would look astonishing with a proper update [which is why you need to play it on a 1080 monitor to appreciate its beauty]
and a sequel would be phenomenal !
stupid Jim Ryan had to let go of RAD and sold them off to Facebook
because the game didn't sell well.
sometimes I don't get the industry.
gamers and the companies making equally idiotic, ill-advised and unkind decisions supporting trends that should never be followed
I wanted to support such technical achievements so I bought its special edition day1
some encouragement for you to give the game a try ASAP:
world-class [baked and dynamic] lighting, texture work, volumetric effects, motion blur, reflections, character details draw distance, cloth simulation etc.
areas that would need improvement: AO and shadows
(my own screenshots on a base PS4):
there were several mind-blowing moments from the game I will never forget:
the first werewolf transformation
watching people talk [fully lip-synced]
there is a scene early in the game where you walk through an alley with a butcher's shop, that was one of the most photo-realistic scenes I have ever seen in a videogame
overcast London
LOD in panoramic scenes
and so much more
Looking at your screenshots as well as some clips that I just watched of it, this game truly is a masterpiece graphically and I am saying this in 2023 having also played The Matrix demo. I cannot imagine what people thought when they first saw this back in 2015, that's 8 years ago. Woulda loved to see people's reaction when they first saw it.
I am definitely buying it just for the visuals alone.
That second screenshot though
. Could easily mistake it for a WW2 movie.
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Ever since I went OLED back in 2016 I never looked back. Sure HDR looks a tad better on LEDs due to their higher peak brightness but in general nothing beats OLED's picture. Playing The Order on it is gonna be something else.Yeah I got my first OLED late last year (48” C1). The difference it makes to games you’ve already played visually is unbelievable. Good colour precision and dialled in settings make such a huge difference. The Order is crazy looking on it probably mainly because of the TV’s amazing black levels.
It’s even the same on the Switch screen when you compare the launch console to the OLED version.
Great shots
You know it is a sad state of affairs when you are going back in time to appreciate visuals.
Luipadre
Member
easily THE MOST beautiful game last-gen. a true visual showcase with an art direction second to none
it would look astonishing with a proper update [which is why you need to play it on a 1080 monitor to appreciate its beauty]
and a sequel would be phenomenal !
stupid Jim Ryan had to let go of RAD and sold them off to Facebook
because the game didn't sell well.
sometimes I don't get the industry.
gamers and the companies making equally idiotic, ill-advised and unkind decisions supporting trends that should never be followed
I wanted to support such technical achievements so I bought its special edition day1
some encouragement for you to give the game a try ASAP:
world-class [baked and dynamic] lighting, texture work, volumetric effects, motion blur, reflections, character details draw distance, cloth simulation etc.
areas that would need improvement: AO and shadows
(my own screenshots on a base PS4):
there were several mind-blowing moments from the game I will never forget:
the first werewolf transformation
watching people talk [fully lip-synced]
there is a scene early in the game where you walk through an alley with a butcher's shop, that was one of the most photo-realistic scenes I have ever seen in a videogame
overcast London
LOD in panoramic scenes
and so much more
why you had to bring this game up
Now im mad again, because we never gonna get a sequel or a new game in this world
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GymWolf
Member
Gif format that hide all the artifacts is the saviour of the order, the amount of visual noise when you play live is unbereable for people who like a clean IQ.
Replayed the whole thing like a year ago on my c1 and i was baffled by how much this game would need a proper pc version where you can remove all the film grain, low res soft image, black bars and aggressive blur.
Replayed the whole thing like a year ago on my c1 and i was baffled by how much this game would need a proper pc version where you can remove all the film grain, low res soft image, black bars and aggressive blur.
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01011001
Banned
why you had to bring this game up
be mad ad the devs for making one of the worst AAA games ever, which is the main reason it doesn't get a sequel
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
What absolute hyperbole. The Order's setting, story, script, characters, voice acting, cutscene direction, score, visual design, (arguably still) industry leading graphical fidelity, weapon variety and general gunplay are all very good. It was the games extremely short length, it's overuse of QTE's and the instant fail stealth sections (which then had to be repeated from the start) that it was marked down heavily for at the time. It along with Ryse and to a lesser extent Quantum Break (which is also massively underrate both as a game and visually) were used as the whipping boys from the big Youtubers and Reddit users at the time as people rallied against the devil that was the "TRIPLE A industry" said in Jim Sterling (or is it Jane Sterling now?...) voice.
Like Days Gone, Ryse and Quantum Break, years later almost everyone you see play the game and then comment on it online that didn't play it at the time due to the backlash to it's length always seems to enjoy it despite it's obvious flaws because they know what to expect going in and the game is almost always sub $20. So no it's not one of the worst AAA games ever. If you actually think that and are not trolling then you don't play enough AAA games to see all of the things The Order absolutely nails especially when you consider that Ready at Dawn were going from working on PSP games to PS4 games which is about a 700x leap in GPU compute terms and a 20x leap in manpower and 4x leap in development time needed. I still think to this day that like No Mans Sky, Sony forced RAD to release The Order way before it was ready to fill it's bleak PS4 release schedule and entire sections were probably cut in order to put something out that still made sense from a narrative sense.
The games industry at the time was also transitioning towards more open World games which funnily enough everyone's bored of now and most people online want more focused linear action games again which seems to be happening with God of War 2018, TLOU II, Ragnarok, being semi open World (linear if you chose it to be). The new Assassin's Creed is also going back to it's more focused routes and a reboot of Uncharted is rumoured.
An Order sequel makes a lot of sense right now. I'd personally give it to Bend Studio considering how accomplished Days Gone was for a first crack at a AAA open World adventure game.
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01011001
Banned
the level design is literally corridors witch cover walls.
AI is dogshit and can spawn out of nowhere behind cover.
the guns are almost all basic as fuck, the ones that are in any way special are either single use or scripted.
the boss fights, including the final one, are literally QTEs.
YOU WALK SLOWLY DOWN CORRIDORS ALL THE TIME.
the game is trash, it always was trash and was called trash for good reason.
this game is basically if you take Gears of War, take away half of the already limited abilities you have in Gears, shrink down the levels, replace half of each level with walking sections, and then add QTEs to it.
noone involved actually wanted to make a game. they wanted to make a graphics demo with a shit story
I think the Red Letter Media crew summarised it really well in their video they made, which I discovered only recently and made me sad they didn't continue this side channel :/
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Agree to disagree. You could level some of the same complaints at many 'classic' TPS from the PS360 era and ah Red Letter Media... the gold standard for video game critique lol.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You're right in that the backlash against The Order was more about a backlash against that trend of overly cinematic games, and not about its overall quality which is fairly decent. Its probably a good 7/10 game, maybe 6 (FAIR) if im being harsh, but the reason why I truly hated the game was because of what the game represented. A disdain for gameplay in games which led to the developer making some truly bizarre choices and decisions that resulted in a game that has maybe 4-5 real levels while the remaining are cutscene only levels or walking only levels.
It's the same reason why I hated Ryse. Gorgeous graphics, great story, but they wanted me to kill every enemy with a QTE. That game actually has real levels and combat but again, it's the thought process behind the design that to me is simply unforgivable. I can tolerate games that are buggy or rushed or flawed, but both Order and Ryse represented this really twisted vision of what video games ought to be. Story first, gameplay later. QTE nonsense. And I love Heavy Rain and Detroit so i dont mind QTEs but killing 1000 enemies with QTEs in Ryse broke me.
Everyone calls TLOU, Uncharted, GOW and other Sony games as filmic but their combat engines are fantastic, not just mediocre like the order and ryse. Their level design is immaculate especially SSM's GOW games. When you play the game, you are enjoying the combat just as much as the story. Order and Ryse just went too far and I say this as a graphics whore who considers The Order arguably the best looking game of last gen, and Ryse the best looking XBox exclusive.
I bought it again for $5 a few years ago hoping they would patch it on the Pro, and was shocked at how many cutscenes were unskippable and how at one point i went an entire hour between actual combat encounters. This is a 6-7 hour game, but only around 2-3 hours have combat encounters which are rather good. CoD, Ryse and other short 6 hour campaigns are nearly 90% gameplay. THis is maybe 30% gameplay at best.
GymWolf
Member
I'm ok with calling out the hyperbole on his post but let's not mix real games like days gone with glorified tech demos like rise or the shorter please.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
It's all about the framing. When I played it this time I went in expecting something more akin to a Quantic Dream game like Detroit rather than a traditional third person action game. I initially played it to see how it held up visually but was surprised by how good the shooting mechanics, the gun variety, some of the combat encounters and just how immersive the whole thing was especially the story and setting. It's obviously far from perfect as an action game but it's a great base for a sequel imo.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
You can find the differences in this link https://history-computer.com/ray-tr... technique,by following individual light rays.
But here is a quick summary
- Ray tracing projects rays in all directions from numerous places. In path tracing, the physics of light is stimulated by incorporating ray tracing as part of a more extensive light stimulation system.
- Ray tracing is a technique for generating an image by tracing the path of light as it bounces off objects. Path tracing is a similar technique, but it traces the path of light through a scene by following individual light rays.
- Ray tracing can produce more realistic images than path tracing, but it is also more computationally expensive. For example, ray tracing can produce realistic images of reflections and refractions, while path tracing cannot.
- Path tracing is more accurate than ray tracing when it comes to simulating the physics of light.
- Path tracing can handle complex scenes with many objects more efficiently than ray tracing.
- Ray tracing is more efficient at handling reflection, while path tracing is more efficient at handling refraction.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, i was looking forward to a fully fleshed out sequel myself. Maybe 10-12 hours long with a 70-30 gameplay to cutscene ratio. Combat was decent.
I am a huge fan of Ready At Dawn. I loved the new weapons they introduced in the GOW PSP games, and they did a far better job humanizing Kratos than SSM did with the first four games. It's a shame this game effectively killed that studio.
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GymWolf
Member
They werent't capable to write a plot without plotholes in a 5 hour game, not sure if i would assign anything more than a tv spot for diapers to their writing team...
Humanizing kratos with a story about his lost brother and his dead child, it would have been incredible if they didn't managed to do that with that type of material dude...
Best thing about the game was graphic, atmosphere and surprisingly, the shooting part (feeling and how diversified the weapons felt, the rest was dogshit from enemy variety to ia to lack of challenge to shitty boss fights etc.)
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
This applies to all games, not only for racing games. And you already answered your question yourself "It also depends on the time of day, weather, environment etc". And thats why RTGI is so important, to make it look even more real consistently.
Thanks a bunch, Turk. You're a real G!
I always thought Path Tracing was more of a resource-hog than RT and creates a more realistic image but in the summary you posted mainly the bolded point it actually says otherwise adding more the confusion I already had about the two tech.
Outta curiosity, going by your name are you Turkish? Saudi?
That's the thing, racing games are inconsistent when it comes to the consistency of them looking realistic if that makes sense, more so than other games.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont know. SSM's games made me hate Kratos. He killed Ikarus, Poseidon's mistress and several other people who meant him no harm. And they wanted me to sympathize with him at the end of GOW3. I was like fuck you. Ascension was awful so playing Ghost of Sparta the same year made me appreciate RAD even more.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I think i know what you mean and i know why it looks like that. They are the most realistic when everything hits right but because they can look soo photoreal, the moment it doesn't it sticks out more. I think thats the issue, and thats why it is more inconsistent.
Im Turkish
GymWolf
Member
Again, not an hard task to show a ray of light in an otherwise negative character when the the plot points are his lost brother and dead daughter.
They were literally forced to show more than the usual angry bald man.
First 3 games are a revenge story, no need or space for pussy feelings.
I only started to appreciate kratos in gow 2018, the portable games did nothing to me.
01011001
Banned
well you brought up how great the writing and story is, these guys are movie critics that do this as their main thing... and they shit on it even harder in the story segment then in the gameplay segment.
I couldn't care less about the writing of a game, gamedesign and gameplay are the 2 things that are important to me, so it was fun seeing them completely dismantling the story of it.
I send you guys strength in this difficult time that the country is going though!I think i know what you mean and i know why it looks like that. They are the most realistic when everything hits right but because they can look soo photoreal, the moment it doesn't it sticks out more. I think thats the issue, and thats why it is more inconsistent.
Im Turkish
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
I think you'll find most movie critics shit on 99% of videogame stories, scripts and performances because compared to proper high end movies they do suck
01011001
Banned
I think you'll find most movie critics shit on 99% of videogame stories, scripts and performances because compared to proper high end movies they do suck
so you agree the story sucks? and the writing sucks? and the script sucks?
well then, what is left is "we have Gears of War at home" gameplay and WALKING
GymWolf
Member
Galahad: yo indian chick, we should not kill any worker here, they are just guards doing their job.
indian chick: got it boss
Proceed to kill hundreds because they shoot him (while doing their job)
Boy the plot on that game was a rollercoaster of bad written shit with deep as a puddle characters...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Of course Lumens is realtime. RTGI in this convo is referring to hardware accelerated Ray Traced GI not realtime GI which im all for. What Metro is doing is far more extensive than the Software Lumens in the first UE5 demo.
I want them to use dynamic GI of course, but the results i saw in the first UE5 demo were good enough. In Matrix, you get back something crazy like 40-50% of the GPU if you go from hardware accerelated Lumens to software accelerated. I think they should stick with software lumens for consoles, and maybe offer hardware lumens on mid gen upgrades and PCs. 1440p 30 fps with software lumens is good enough especially when consoles were struggling with hardware lumens at 1080p 30 fps in the Matrix.
Consoles have always been about taking shortcuts and smart optimizations. I just dont think RT or RTX GI is a good use of hardware resources. Maybe they can offer hardware lumens as a fidelity mode and software lumens for performance but in fortnite, they are exclusively using hardware lumens and the resolution drops to 1080p even on the PS5.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
God I give up.
Also if you're that obsessed with level design and gameplay why the fuck are you in a graphics thread.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
They had interesting takes.
I agree with them on Alien Isolation but 10000% disagree on uncharted 4 which is one of my favs. loose cannons !
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It holds up well in terms of image quality for a 1080p game. You just don't like film grain and post processing.
You want games that don't hold up on a 4k TV? Look at bloodborne and driveclub.
GymWolf
Member
Yeah, i fucking hate having a dirty iq, and the order was the dirtier game i played recently, it's not just a matter of low res (and the game is not 1080p btw more like 800p if i remember correctly), they use pretty much all the tricks in the book to ruin iq:
Heavy blur
Low res soft image
Black bars
Film grain
Heavy postprocessing
Thank god for the absence of chromatic aberration (i think)
The game could look MUCH better.
I'm waiting for the remaster before re-playing bloodborne, at least that one has still a chance to get one, and i could not care less about driving games
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Developers should focus on making a game look great, no matter how they achieve it. Its the result that counts. Metro Exodus might have RTGI, but Horizon Forbidden West and TLOU II look worlds better. I’ll take baked lighting and RTAO and RT reflections anyday to save resources and get a product that looks “next gen” in the end. Also Native 4k ISNT NEEDED! 1440p upscaled to 4K and 60FPS is fine! I want Matrix Awakens level visuals from big devs like Naughty Dog, The Coalition, Santa Monica, Guerilla, Rockstar etc.
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Portugeezer
Member
"Yay ray tracing" only to be met with low poly assets, not-so-great animations and character models.
CamHostage
Member
No official word on Racer RTX, independently it was confirmed that it was delayed into 2023 obviously but other than some new screenshots I don't think there has been any word on what its status is. Which is unfortunate, as this is an amazing project for not just the graphical tech, but the Omniverse and other projects being integrated into the production.
Neo_game
Member
I am not sure, we have to wait and see.
Lethal01
Member
I'll give you the real time should be obviouse and I included that just to be thorough. But raytraced GI refers to raytraced GI whether we are using hardware acceleration or not, raytracing is raytracing.
if you want to specifically talk about hardware acceleration then mention that, because using lumen as an example of not using RTGI(RAY TRACED GlOBAL ILLUMINATION) is just gonna cause confusion for everyone.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Is this why bright reds and oranges say on game intro splash screens always look dull even when the screen is as bright as it can go? Everything else looks great including the HDR on big budget games I just always thought it was to protect your eyes or something lol but I guess it's cause OLED's have lower brightness overall.
I don't know that much about TV's I just heard the OLED one I got was the best one for gaming under £1200 so I got it. I love it though, worth every penny.