He's making a shopping list for Samsung.
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Sony outlines a long term roadmap for Playstation tech: 8K, 300fps, 3D chips and cats
- Thread starter gofreak
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He's making a shopping list for Samsung.
Opus Angelorum
Member
[Nintex];34182858 said:
Damn.
Assuming that generations are now 7.5 years... that's about 2030-2040. Nah... look back 20-30 years ago. That's Atari. That's SNES. 20-30 years ahead + parallel threads of technology converging = very high quality virtual reality. Probably not matrix quality... but I'd expect it to be a deep into a dramatic paradigm shift over the way we use computers and technology by then.
They are aiming incredibly high with this stacked 3d chips.... but in the long term, if they push it hard, the entire tech industry will greatly benefit from it. Times of war often produce incredible things. 
1billion for SoC that has CPU+GPU and who knows what in it could indeed provide enough power for some incredible graphics and processing, but i think that 8k/4k resolutions and those exotic AR features will be aim for PS5. Transparent glasses that provide HD resoultions are already made in several test products, but algorithms for providing realistic AR are still far away.
If they manage to produce PS4 will stacked SoC in 2014, that will be so badass. Kudos to Sony for maintaining uber high tech approach yet again.
1billion for SoC that has CPU+GPU and who knows what in it could indeed provide enough power for some incredible graphics and processing, but i think that 8k/4k resolutions and those exotic AR features will be aim for PS5. Transparent glasses that provide HD resoultions are already made in several test products, but algorithms for providing realistic AR are still far away.
If they manage to produce PS4 will stacked SoC in 2014, that will be so badass. Kudos to Sony for maintaining uber high tech approach yet again.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Where have I heard that before...
MikeE21286
Member
lol, seriously.
With PS3. It brought us Bluray, but it costed Sony a lot. If they rush 3D stacking tech for PS4, it could potentially cost them even more.
The mention of programmable logic is pretty interesting. I've been thinking for a while now that having some FPGA-style fabric in a console could be useful. The performance for some applications (e.g. video decoding) would be an order of magnitude greater than current software-based techniques and it would potentially provide a lot of flexibility to developers.
The problem is that programming it efficiently has always required specialist hardware design skills that most software engineers don't have (and don't want), but the high-level design tools are really coming along now and it's probably not such a stretch to imagine it happening within a few generations.
The problem is that programming it efficiently has always required specialist hardware design skills that most software engineers don't have (and don't want), but the high-level design tools are really coming along now and it's probably not such a stretch to imagine it happening within a few generations.
I should be doing hw
Member
Gimme some Dennou Coil AR Glasses action, Sony. Oh yeah!
BruiserBear
Banned
It's also rather stupid, and that has also been Sony to some degree over the past 10 years. 4K tvs are literally a decade from being mainstream, maybe longer. The PS4 has no business supporting that format, and it's probably not even realistic anyway. Developers have enough trouble hitting 720p as it is.
This company is bleeding money. The last thing they need right now is another $599 console with features most people won't use for another 5 years.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Is that bit about it not being called PS4 from the Sony guy or from the author? I don't want them to drop the numbers
Maleficence
Member
They haven't promised anything you cretin.
Learn to read, Jesus. As others have said this is a simple idea of where the PlayStation brand could be going technology wise. It means nothing in terms of their upcoming console.
That said, with responses like this I don't know how smart it is for them to be revealing this sort of vision.
On the way.
But probably won't be ready for primetime until well into the PS4 generation, at best :\
The dude we're talking about here has a metric tonne of patents relating to these, btw. I guess it's his pet project. I wonder where they're at right now with it.
That's par for the course in any consumer electronics tech company no? This is a roadmap, not a list of fixed features for future products.
IIRC, before E3 05, Kutaragi did a presentation where he talked about realtime data off the network as being a next step for games - that it would introduce time, 'the 4th dimension' to gaming. E.g. in a racing game, getting up-to-the-minute race results in-game, realtime weather data from the network feeding into track conditions etc. That's all he meant, but the Krazy Ken meme jumped on it
Level headed responses rarely gets quoted enough
I would love to see some official roadmap for each application. Like for storage and etc.
This guy is not PR, he's a chief of technology if anything PR people would be much more cautious disclosing this info.
Maleficence
Member
This can barely be considered PR, you're blowing it way out of proportion.
This is not PR, learn to read for fuck's sake.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
And with PS2 before that, but I was actually referring to the Cell and the revolution it was supposed to bring us. Back then other chipmakers claimed that they had similar designs on their roadmaps, but much further ahead, they were saying it was too early. Yet there were people who claimed that the Cell would accelerate the whole industry and bring us unimaginable things. Real-time ray tracing! Remember that? None of it really happened and the design was almost entirely abandoned. I'm just too old to keep falling for the same things over and over again.
This is a long term roadmap and that's how we should treat it, let's leave dreaming to more naive people.
Maleficence
Member
Your definition of PR seems to be "anything said by a company man ever".
Agreed.
Then you agree with remember citadel that this is just a roadmap, that it's not a fixed feature list for future products and that it's contingent to so many factors that we could even not see these in any future products from Sony?
Sounds like Sony is continuing to put the cart before the horse in terms of console design.
Consoles get 10 year lifespans due to broad support in spite of their hardware, not because of it. If Sony is going to over-engineer another expensive box full of features that may or may not be relevant to gaming in some distant future, I doubt they'll be still in the console business to release a PS5.
It's stupid, to be straight. It's fine to talk publicly about the near future like any other company, but a long term roadmap is an internal matter. What's the benefit for Sony to reveal it?
"I don't wanna live by Sanyo's rules anymore" that was hilarious.
bigtroyjon
Member
If the PS3 was the beer bottle across Sony's dome that put them on the ground, spending 1 billion dollars developing a chip will be the curb stomp that finishes them off.
Company representative doing a press junket is a by the book definition of Public Relations.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Wow the entire first page are people who didn't read the op...
I find it comforting that input lag is still on sony's list of important stuff at all.
You wouldn't say so when looking at ps3 and current sony... wireless controller, 30 fps, shitty vsync, pushing LCD tech, no scaler in ps3...
Input lag matters is what I take from this interview.
2x gtx580s and a strong cpu will render batman : Arkham Asylum or dead space at 300 fps btw. (well that is if SLI scaling is good for these games).
My 3+ year old gfx card already ran dead space at 100+ fps at far better than console IQ settings.
So in 5+ years they could if they wanted to.
It seems like a complete waste to render it at over 100 fps though, the latency gains are small after that especially compared to the input lag an lcd tv and wireless controller will add.
Then again when using vsync it makes sense.
Then again if you can get over 100 fps consistently why use vsync at all, just cap the framerate at 100 in the engine and not a single frame will be torn so no need for tripple buffer megalag.
I find it comforting that input lag is still on sony's list of important stuff at all.
You wouldn't say so when looking at ps3 and current sony... wireless controller, 30 fps, shitty vsync, pushing LCD tech, no scaler in ps3...
Input lag matters is what I take from this interview.
2x gtx580s and a strong cpu will render batman : Arkham Asylum or dead space at 300 fps btw. (well that is if SLI scaling is good for these games).
My 3+ year old gfx card already ran dead space at 100+ fps at far better than console IQ settings.
So in 5+ years they could if they wanted to.
It seems like a complete waste to render it at over 100 fps though, the latency gains are small after that especially compared to the input lag an lcd tv and wireless controller will add.
Then again when using vsync it makes sense.
Then again if you can get over 100 fps consistently why use vsync at all, just cap the framerate at 100 in the engine and not a single frame will be torn so no need for tripple buffer megalag.
Bullshit, this is a guy being interviewed about his job and being open about it, which is informative and interesting.
PR is why we don't have more access to this stuff, probably for good reason reading some of the answers here.
More like 2022-2025, a time when we finally we start to use graphen instead of silicon.
Seriously, watching firts graphen 3D Tri-gate based chips will be amazing.
Hopefully this helps, and might help summarise things vs the walls of text on the last page:
Bits probably relevant to PS4
- 'the company is working on a system-on-chip (SoC) to underpin the product for "seven to 10 years".'
- 'He describes the architecture in broad terms: "You are talking about powerful CPU and GPU with extra DSP and programmable logic."'
- 'Tsuruta-san picked out emerging through silicon via designs. These stack chips with interconnects running vertically through them to reduce length, raise performance and reduce power consumption.'
- 'Tsuruta-san has noted the difficulties in achieving viable yields at 28nm, though he believes that these problems are now moving towards a resolution.'
- Tsuruta: "We are confident that we can now see a way and that we can use some of these advanced methods to create a new kind of system-on-chip. We think that there are the technologies today that can be taken to this project.
- Tsuruta: "We understand that for this, we will need to offer a very strong SDK. We will retain our own OS for the main games and support that with a development environment that is viable. For online and other features, we are also thinking of a simpler approach to a Linux-type environment than on the PlayStation 3,"
- Seems to be a consciousness to try and accommodate potential future peripherals with high bandwidth needs
- '[Vita] features a nine-axis accelerometer (3 accelerometers, 3 gyroscopes and 3 magnetometers), but we could soon see a tenth added to sense pressure and increase environmental feedback still further.'
Bits probably relevant to post-PS4 (peripherals, PS5+ etc.)
- 'For the future of AR, Tsurutas presentation imagined a 3D version using lightweight glasses to create a hybrid gaming environment '
- 'the company wants to up the ante in haptics technology...this vision is one that incorporates sufficient touch sensitivity to, say, reproduce the full tactile sensation of stroking a cat'
- 'controllers that incorporate more motion-sensing accelerometers, and even vital signs sensors. Theres even been talk of systems that read players eye movements.'
- 'Sonys target is to get latency for a typical playing experience to below 50ms for framerates of more than 300fps.'
- 'Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.'
Unless otherwise explicitly noted, the above quotes are from the article. Direct quotes from Tsuruta are hopefully obvious to pick out.
CELL was an unortodox design made from current tech. If sony manage to push mass market production of high powered stacked chips by 2013/2014, then the entire tech industry will get inscentive to do the same. Can you imagine the power of intel, amd and nvidia chips made that way? Or even, in the lowpered sphere, new arm designs. Intel's tri-gate is still singlelayered solution, made with some very interestive tweeks.
Stacked chips will come, but if sony pushes it, it will come sooner.
BruiserBear
Banned
While I'm all for grand technology and innovation, and I believe the PS3 is a more powerful machine than the 360, I just feel Sony has their priorities all mixed up, and they rarely seem to learn from their past mistakes.
With this current generation Sony saw their market share drop off dramatically. Microsoft showed with the 360 that simply have a competent machine technology wise, was enough. It shared much with current PC's, which made game development quite simple and straight forward. Graphically speaking it is capable of things very similar to what the PS3 can do.
So what does Sony seem to be doing for it's next consol.e? Something very similar to what they did with the PS3. Custom chips, shooting for the moon, etc, etc.
Why? It seems so much more prudent to wait to see Microsoft's specs for the next console, and then beef yours up by a touch if you want to say you're more powerful. If the machine was actually easy to program for it would be even more likely that developers could take advantage of that extra power.
But no, Sony will do things it's own way, have something that is probably significantly different from the next Xbox chip wise, not make online features the focus it needs to be, and ultimately lose more money and market share.
I'm firmly convinced this company is capable of driving itself right off the financial cliff in the next 5 years.
With this current generation Sony saw their market share drop off dramatically. Microsoft showed with the 360 that simply have a competent machine technology wise, was enough. It shared much with current PC's, which made game development quite simple and straight forward. Graphically speaking it is capable of things very similar to what the PS3 can do.
So what does Sony seem to be doing for it's next consol.e? Something very similar to what they did with the PS3. Custom chips, shooting for the moon, etc, etc.
Why? It seems so much more prudent to wait to see Microsoft's specs for the next console, and then beef yours up by a touch if you want to say you're more powerful. If the machine was actually easy to program for it would be even more likely that developers could take advantage of that extra power.
But no, Sony will do things it's own way, have something that is probably significantly different from the next Xbox chip wise, not make online features the focus it needs to be, and ultimately lose more money and market share.
I'm firmly convinced this company is capable of driving itself right off the financial cliff in the next 5 years.
it'll be like bluray. flexible to support later resolutions. I'm still surprised the ancient old PS3 got updates for lossless audio and 3D.
Would be relatively trivial for a PS4 to upscale blurays nicely to 4k resolution. Or fake convert to 3D. Doesn't mean you'll be playing games at that res though.
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