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[guek]

45 mil? Is it just me or does that sound dirt cheap to anyone else?

 

[duckroll]

45 mil? Is it just me or does that sound dirt cheap to anyone else?

That's what happens when your shares go into free fall.

 

[Lightning]

Made some decent games. I would mind Sony picking up some of their IP's and talent. Don't want the company though...

 

[Mario]

45 mil? Is it just me or does that sound dirt cheap to anyone else?

Considering it probably comes with a bunch of debt and obligations, perhaps not.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-01-15-thq-shelves-all-titles-slated-for-2014-rumour

Then stick a fork in 'er, she's done.

 

[bigtroyjon]

45 mil? Is it just me or does that sound dirt cheap to anyone else?

You'd be acquiring hundreds of millions in debt along with buying the company, which is why it's really unlikely that they'd be bought by another publisher.

If they get bought before they go under it will be by an investment company/hedge fund that would basically be banking on the pieces being worth more than the whole and they'd sell it off piece by piece.

 

[gdt]

Hope the devs end up somewhere nice, don't really care about the publisher, just some of those studios and IPs (Darksiders, Metro 2033, Saints Row, etc)

 

[Kusagari]

I seriously don't get the state of the industry. These guys, and other companies listed on the stock market, post huge losses every year, yet when I look at their games:

+ de Blob 2: flopped, but not big budget
+ Destroy All Humans: flopped
+ Kung Fu Panda 2: dunno, think it was as profitable as these games usually are
+ WH40k Dawn of War II series: critical and commercial success
+ Red Faction Armageddon: massive flop
+ Saints Row 2 and 3: critical and commercial success
+ WWE franchise: mostly commercial success
+ UFC franchise: 1st game big success, 2nd game sold well but didn't perform as well as they wanted
+ Darksiders: critical and commercial success
+ Red Faction Guerrilla: critical and commercial success
+ Metro 2033: critical and commercial success
+ Homefront: critical flop, but commercial success
+ MX vs ATV: dunno. Think it flopped
+ WH40k Space Marine: critical and commercial success, despite not performing as well as they wanted
+ Company of Heroes Online: flopped
+ lots of smaller DS / Wii games, probably some did well, some flopped.

A lot of those commercial successes you're naming weren't considered to be by THQ. Homefront sold decently but they probably didn't even make back their marketing budget on it. They marketed that game to death expecting it to be HUGE, and it wasn't. THQ publically said Darksiders didn't sell enough and that Darksiders 2 needed to do far better to continue the franchise. And considering how they felt about Space Marine, I doubt they internally considered it a commercial success either.

I think the big factor though is that THQ has nothing that sells huge. They have a bunch of middling franchises that do 2-3 million, but those can't offset the huge bombs they've had this gen like the UDraw fiasco. They were banking on Homefront to be that 'big' game and it blew up in their face.

 

[Data West]

WWE is an annual franchise. I know the stuff for 2013 that's in development should be finished, but what do they do with WWE? I can't imagine they've started on it yet.

 

[guek]

You'd be acquiring hundreds of millions in debt along with buying the company, which is why it's really unlikely that they'd be bought by another publisher.

Ah. Gotcha.

 

[NBtoaster]

Will digital versions of their games be taken down should they go under without a buyer? I imagine they will...

 

[vireland]

45 mil? Is it just me or does that sound dirt cheap to anyone else?

Considering they were worth about 500 million less than a couple years ago and even much MORE a few years before that, yes, 45 million is not much.

 

[Proc]

That's a real shame. The last 4 games I've bought have been THQ games. This is rare for me but its because:

-recent interest in UFC and passing interest in WWE
-sales on Warhammer and aints Row the Third


They have all been great experiences. UFC 2010 lacks a bit as a fleshed out package but I can't complain for the $20 I spent on it.

 

[charlequin]

Seriously, Microsoft needs to pick up Vigil and Relic.

Any console platform-holder buying any of THQ's studios is an absolute worst-case scenario. Just letting them rot on the vine would be better than that, frankly.

If I were a purchaser, I'd just buy some parts of THQ, not the whole company. Who needs all that debt and failed business model...

Their only debt is the singular loan that they're on schedule to pay off, actually. Without a debt load, their current price is so low that it might well be worthwhile to just absorb them whole and shear off the deadweight afterwards rather than try to pick through for scraps.

Nuclear Muffin suggested some additions, and even called THQ going down in a follow up to that post here.

I'm amused that he did so and yet was completely wrong about Saints Row 3.

How well did DE Revolution did? Eidos' main IP is still Tomb Raider, it's a cashcow for sure but it's still not a AAA quality franchise. It's a little early to paint the Eidos acquisition as some sort of super shrewd move.

The purchase of Eidos instantaneously made Square-Enix a Western publisher with significant reach and a moderately populous bench of IPs that could move 1+ million units. The integration went smoothly, pretty much without major incident, and now Eidos has multiple studios pumping out titles at a good clip and with pretty decent market penetration. It's got to be one of the more successful major merger/acquisitions in recent memory within the gaming industry. They even raised their profit expectations due to unexpectedly high DX:HR sales.

 

[JdFoX187]

A lot of those commercial successes you're naming weren't considered to be by THQ. Homefront sold decently but they probably didn't even make back their marketing budget on it. They marketed that game to death expecting it to be HUGE, and it wasn't. THQ publically said Darksiders didn't sell enough and that Darksiders 2 needed to do far better to continue the franchise. And considering how they felt about Space Marine, I doubt they internally considered it a commercial success either.

I think the big factor though is that THQ has nothing that sells huge. They have a bunch of middling franchises that do 2-3 million, but those can't offset the huge bombs they've had this gen like the UDraw fiasco. They were banking on Homefront to be that 'big' game and it blew up in their face.

Yeah, they had outrageous expectations for so many of their games. They expected Space Marine to do Gears numbers. They expected Homefront to do numbers similar to what Battlefield 3 did this year. They wanted Darksiders to do several million. If they had tempered their expectations, and with that their expenses, they would have managed to stay afloat. I love THQ because the awesome games they made. Space Marine is awesome. Darksiders is second only to Assassin's Creed as my favorite new IP this gen. And I, for some reason, buy WWE each year. But they can't just pump ridiculous amounts of money into games that were not going to sell to begin with. Expecting 6-8 million from Homefront was asinine, especially considering the unfinished state in which the game shipped. Didn't that thing cost $40 million?

 

[Seda]

"Just in from THQ: "THQ has not cancelled its 2014 lineup and has not made any decisions regarding the planned MMO."

https://twitter.com/#!/gamasutra/status/158763441098719235

Hmm

 

[bernardobri]

From Gamasutra's Twitter

Just in from THQ: "THQ has not cancelled its 2014 lineup and has not made any decisions regarding the planned MMO."

https://twitter.com/#!/gamasutra/status/158763441098719235

EDIT:

 

[charlequin]

You'd be acquiring hundreds of millions in debt along with buying the company, which is why it's really unlikely that they'd be bought by another publisher.

As best Nirolak, Kev and I can work out, they basically have the capacity to pay off their debt with their cash on hand, the problem is more the $75m monthly churn rate and the necessity to fire like half the staff a whole-cloth purchaser would be faced with.

 

[Seda]

THQ has not cancelled its 2014 line-up, and has not made any decisions regarding the planned MMO. As part of the ongoing review of our business, we have made decisions to ensure that the company is strategically addressing the most attractive markets. As we have previously announced, we have dramatically reduced our commitment to the kids' boxed games sector which leads to a significantly more focused release schedule moving forward. Our slate for calendar 2012 and beyond is focused on high-quality core games and continues to build our digital platform and business. We are excited for our pipeline of original and high-quality content along with our relationships with some of the best talent in the industry.

Additionally, we are thrilled with the great performance of Saints Row: The Third, which on a like for like period in North America has tripled in sell-through from Saints Row 2. In addition, WWE '12's worldwide sell-through sales are up almost 40% year-over-year for the same sales period with fewer platforms. According to NPD, for the month of December and the 2011 year, THQ was the #5 publisher overall, #4 third party, with reported sell through growing over 18% in a market that was down almost 6%. And coming up next, we have two great titles for the first half of the year including UFC Undisputed 3 and Darksiders 2.

From Kotaku

 

[Nirolak]

From Kotaku

Interesting. Thanks.

They're notably very cagey about that MMO instead of just outright confirming it's still going.

Going to add the GamesIndustry.biz rumor to the OP as well.

 

[DGRE]

From Kotaku

It is a strong statement to be sure, but this is business as usual when it comes to PR and the selling of things. You would never list your desperations in an advertisement.

"House is falling apart, has mold, rats, and the occasional hobo squatting in the basement. Buy it for $500,000!"

 

[Jive Turkey]

This was removed from SR3 btw :/

What?

Urge to kill rising!

 

[apana]

Wow, so extremely short lived and uninteresting that no one even remembers Gamecock opening and closing all in about a two year span this gen.

I would love it if Nintendo surprised u all and they bought something off of THQ.

It would be much simpler for Nintendo to poach the talent they need rather than buy off studios which may be an expensive proposition. They are willing to buy those studios that they can get for bargain bin prices and they need to be confident that members of said studio will stick around and be loyal to Nintendo. That makes a western studio's chances of being bought out incredibly low.

 

[Nirolak]

I see Kotaku also noticed the ambiguity:

Ignore the second paragraph, it's all marketing. It's the first you should focus on. Specifically, the first sentence.

One thing, the fact there'll be some kind of 2014 lineup, is very clearly stated. No room for argument. The exact future of Dark Millennium, the forever-in-development MMO based on Warhammer 40K, is not clearly stated. It's downright ambiguous.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

It would be much simpler for Nintendo to poach the talent they need rather than buy off studios which may be an expensive proposition. They are willing to buy those studios that they can get for bargain bin prices and they need to be confident that members of said studio will stick around and be loyal to Nintendo. That makes a western studio's chances of being bought out incredibly low.

Hence why Next Level Games and Monster are far more likely candidates for a Nintendo buyout, should Nintendo ever feel like buying a western development house. It's not even clear that this would be a good move for Nintendo when the existing arrangements seem to be working fine.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Am I reading right that this rumour pushed them to a new low of 65 cents a share?
If they don't cave, that's really cheap isn't it? Especially as if they are ever bought out there'd probably be a bidding war for what they own / license -

the MMO doesn't bother me personally, if they're streamlining things - that sounds prudent to me.

 

[victreeb3l]

sorry to sound dumb, but i thought saints row 3 and darksiders sold really well? does thq have really terrible management or something?

 

[bigtroyjon]

As best Nirolak, Kev and I can work out, they basically have the capacity to pay off their debt with their cash on hand, the problem is more the $75m monthly churn rate and the necessity to fire like half the staff a whole-cloth purchaser would be faced with.

Not even close. Last earnings release the balance sheet showed $51 million in cash. They have a $100 million loan that needs to be paid back along with hundreds of million more in other liabilities that aren't specified. They also have a $75 million revolving credit line with Wells Fargo that's been likely tapped into considering what we heard about Udraw.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

HD consoles claim another victim.

And microwaves too while we're randomly blaming things.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Am I reading right that this rumour pushed them to a new low of 65 cents a share?
If they don't cave, that's really cheap isn't it? Especially as if they are ever bought out there'd probably be a bidding war for what they own / license -

the MMO doesn't bother me personally, if they're streamlining things - that sounds prudent to me.

The markets haven't opened yet since the rumor broke. The share price is based on pre-rumor stuff.

 

[EatChildren]

Just because they haven't cancelled their 2014 line-up doesn't mean their 2014 is anything significant, or their not interesting in cutting things back. We know inSANE and Devil's Third are scheduled for 2013, but what of 2014? Homefront 2 from Crytek, and Saints Row 4 maybe?

It's only the start of 2012. There's plenty of time for THQ to make some drastic cuts to their forecast and production studios.

 

[Duffyside]

Just because they haven't cancelled their 2014 line-up doesn't mean their 2014 is anything significant, or their not interesting in cutting things back. We know inSANE and Devil's Third are scheduled for 2013, but what of 2014? Homefront 2 from Crytek, and Saints Row 4 maybe?

It's only the start of 2012. There's plenty of time for THQ to make some drastic cuts to their forecast and production studios.

2014 has to be the projected release year for the Patrice game, right?

 

[Dead Man]

I just want Volition to have a home where they are supported and can make great games

 

[beat]

It would be much simpler for Nintendo to poach the talent they need rather than buy off studios which may be an expensive proposition.

I dunno; you don't even get everyone when you buy a whole studio - some people take the acquisition as a sign to leave, for example. Trying to poach a studio's worth of talent, even from dying studios, seems like it'd be way harder.

 

[FLEABttn]

Any console platform-holder buying any of THQ's studios is an absolute worst-case scenario. Just letting them rot on the vine would be better than that, frankly.

Would you mind expanding upon this? I don't see (for example) Vigil being bought by Sony and made first party being worse than them rotting on the vine.

Not that I say I see it as being realistic or making good fiscal sense, I'm just curious how Vigil shriveling up and dying is better than becoming a first party studio to someone.

 

[TheOddOne]

Relic Employee: “Work Continues On Our Projects”

An anonymous employee of Relic Entertainment, a subsidiary of THQ based in Vancouver, has confided that work on their projects, both “announced and unannounced” and including the MMO Warhammer 40k: Dark Millennium Online, will continue, rejecting rumours that THQ have cancelled their games and may be closing down, “assuming things don’t suddenly change drastically Monday morning”.

Relic are responsible for the Homeworld, Company of Heroes, and Warhammer 40,000 games. The company, originally an independent games developer, was acquired by THQ in May 2004 for a sum that was reported as “close to $10 million”. Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War was the first title released by the team following the THQ acquisition.

Hours ago, Kevin Dent claimed via Twitter that THQ had cancelled all of their projects planned for launch in 2014. No confirmation or denial has yet come from THQ or any of its subsidiaries, but the environment could change drastically at the beginning of the work week. You can find out more about the rumours in this article.

Iffy source though.

 

[TheSeks]

Would you mind expanding upon this? I don't see (for example) Vigil being bought by Sony and made first party being worse than them rotting on the vine.

Not that I say I see it as being realistic or making good fiscal sense, I'm just curious how Vigil shriveling up and dying is better than becoming a first party studio to someone.

Buying studio + IPs from dying publisher <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< money to-> poach talent and form new studio with GAF's patented "money hats," I wager.

 

[shintoki]

Would you mind expanding upon this? I don't see (for example) Vigil being bought by Sony and made first party being worse than them rotting on the vine.

Not that I say I see it as being realistic or making good fiscal sense, I'm just curious how Vigil shriveling up and dying is better than becoming a first party studio to someone.

Sony doesn't give the freedom nor would it give them platform control, but the latter is pretty much a duh. Nor would they care about continuing on the franchises.

3rd party, hopefully Squeenix or Warner Bros who both seem to have the cash, but take a less hands on approach rather than EA, Activision, or Ubisoft.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Relic Employee: &#8220;Work Continues On Our Projects&#8221;

Iffy source though.

Uhhh

&#8220;assuming things don&#8217;t suddenly change drastically Monday morning&#8221;

This is what all these rumors are about. Employees aren't going to find out until they go to work and are given pink slips

Employees are always the last to know in these types of situations.

 

[Shard]

If I were a THQ employee, I think I would be dreading tomorrow.

 

[TheOddOne]

This is what all these rumors are about. Employees aren't going to find out until they go to work and are given pink slips.

Employees are always the last to know in these types of situations.

Pretty much yeah.

 

[njean777]

I really want somebody to pick up Volition I must have Saints Row 4

 

[HylianTom]

*looks at Wii lineup*
*looks at PS360 lineup*

Hmph.

I'll bite my tongue here, out of respect for those unfortunate folks about to lose their jobs. Really, really sorry for 'em.

 

[SapientWolf]

A lot of those commercial successes you're naming weren't considered to be by THQ. Homefront sold decently but they probably didn't even make back their marketing budget on it. They marketed that game to death expecting it to be HUGE, and it wasn't. THQ publically said Darksiders didn't sell enough and that Darksiders 2 needed to do far better to continue the franchise. And considering how they felt about Space Marine, I doubt they internally considered it a commercial success either.

I think the big factor though is that THQ has nothing that sells huge. They have a bunch of middling franchises that do 2-3 million, but those can't offset the huge bombs they've had this gen like the UDraw fiasco. They were banking on Homefront to be that 'big' game and it blew up in their face.

They profited on Homefront. They needed like 2 mil to break even and they sold 3.

 

[Xater]

Relic Employee: “Work Continues On Our Projects”

Iffy source though.

Um since when is Relic working on the MMO? I thought this was a Vigil thing....

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

Um since when is Relic working on the MMO? I thought this was a Vigil thing....

Relic has been working on the project with Vigil for several years, since they have experience with the IP. The Relic team might have existed as far back as 2007 (same year as Vigil's formation), since there are job postings around that time for an unannounced MMO.

 

[Kusagari]

They profited on Homefront. They needed like 2 mil to break even and they sold 3.

They said they profited? I'm surprised. Though it still wasn't the hit they wanted obviously.

 

[toastyToast]

I really hope THQ doesn't die. For all their fuck ups they're still one of my favourite pubs

 

[Feature]

Home rockstar buys the saints row IP and incorporates their physic engine into it!

 

[Parallax Scroll]

this would bother me more if THQ had ever released a good game between now and the beginning of time