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[nVidiot_Whore]

My city didnt get the right to vote.

It was passed by the city council who thought so much of public health and safety they exempted the casino because they didn't want to lose any tax revenue from it.

So start an initiative to repeal their vote. Pretty simple.. or demand your legislature overturn it, support candidates in future elections who promise to overturn, etc., etc., etc.

But you are in the minority most likely.. so it will be an uphill battle, since smoking isn't a protected right. And it's likely your legislature PROPERLY REPRESENTED those who voted them in.

 

[jmdajr]

Saw two pregnant women chain smoking and socializing with one another like they had no care in the fucking world.

Kicking them in the wombs would probably end in better results than two babies that lived decrepit lives the whole time.

You should see all the CT's and MRI's of fucked up babies and kids we get because tobacco and alcohol abuse when they were in the womb.

Enrages me like non-other.

I had this one guy telling me about his experiences while studying medicine.

Friend:"You know, I feel bad for all these crack smoking women...."
Me: "Yeah I hear ya. Addiction is a bad thing..."
Friend:"Yeah, plus it's not really good for the baby..."
Me: "Uh..what?.."

 

[Steve Youngblood]

See how long you have customers!

So, are you arguing that regulations regarding sanitary preparation of food and food quality are unnecessary because the free market will take care of it?

Also, that doesn't address my desire to open up an establishment that caters strictly to like-minded individuals that don't like associating with coloreds. And I think I should be allowed to do that. If you don't like my racist ways, you're free to patronize another establishment.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

So start an initiative to repeal their vote. Pretty simple.. or demand your legislature overturn it, support candidates in future elections who promise to overturn, etc., etc., etc.

But you are in the minority most likely.. so it will be an uphill battle, since smoking isn't a protected right. And it's likely your legislature PROPERLY REPRESENTED those who voted them in.

And I wish them good luck with that. Polls typically show 60% to 70% support before the ban, and between 70% to 80% a year or two after it passes.

There is a reason it usually breezes through city halls.

 

[Piggus]

Oregon passed it as statewide law a few years ago, so pretty much anywhere you go in the state (except casinos) you can't smoke in indoor workplaces. You also can't smoke within 10 feet of an entrance, open window, air vent, etc.

 

[bill0527]

So start an initiative to repeal their vote. Pretty simple.. or demand your legislature overturn it, support candidates in future elections who promise to overturn, etc., etc., etc.

But you are in the minority most likely.. so it will be an uphill battle, since smoking isn't a protected right. And it's likely your legislature PROPERLY REPRESENTED those who voted them in.

I think you're right about that and I think that what stump posted many pages back is correct. Once this ship has sailed there really is no repealing it or overturning it.

The part in question, that I think could lead to litigation along with holding the city council accountable on election day, is the exemption for the casino. If you're going to allow exemptions to the smoking ban under any circumstances, then your debate point about it being a public health issue becomes laughable.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

And I wish them good luck with that. Polls typically show 60% to 70% support before the ban, and between 70% to 80% a year or two after it passes.

There is a reason it usually breezes through city halls.

Yup. I think we have issues with lack of REAL representation at the federal level.. but the more local you get, the less likely that is an issue.. a lot more transparency at the local level because a "bad law" (according to the majority) is far more likely to be scrutinized.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I think you're right about that and I think that what stump posted many pages back is correct. Once this ship has sailed there really is no repealing it or overturning it.

The part in question, that I think could lead to litigation along with holding the city council accountable on election day, is the exemption for the casino. If you're going to allow exemptions to the smoking ban under any circumstances, then your debate point about it being a public health issue becomes laughable.

Yeah it's pretty reprehensible IMO to enact such a ban for health reasons, and then turn around and repeal parts of it because of lowered revenue.

If people aren't spending money in Casinos because of a smoking ban, you just need to deal with it. Find another way to make revenue. It's been deemed harmful to the public, including workers, and those not partaking.

Do you happen to know how the public seems to feel about this change? Are they in support on some "necessary evil" clause?

I feel the same way about lack of enforcement of drinking laws, and feel drinking regulations need far more enforcement, despite the fact I know it would have a direct effect on the revenue of bars/restaurants as well as the State. That revenue isn't worth the public nuisance caused by the rampant "drinking culture" it has created. It's sort of disgusting to me.. getting blackout drunk a lot during your twenties is practically ENCOURAGED in this country.. and it directly results in the deaths of many innocent people.

I generally refuse to "go out" to most areas of Seattle at night.. I've just personally had too many problems with drunks. Being 6'4" and in the company of an attractive woman puts a big target on your back to insecure drunk morons.

I also think marketing and advertising of dangerous drugs should be limited.. I believe people should have the right to CONSUME and therefore others should have the right to SELL just about ANY drug (including ones currently illegal).. but I think marketing/advertising should be nearly eliminated. It's brainwashing.

 

[dudeworld]

nVidiot_Whore, this entire thread your avatar has been in my peripheral vision and it's been a pair of whats-her-name's tits. I just had a good look at it right now and it's fucking carrot top's face on those tits.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

nVidiot_Whore, this entire thread your avatar has been in my peripheral vision and it's been a pair of whats-her-name's tits. I just had a good look at it right now and it's fucking carrot top's face on those tits.

:lol:

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

The entire state of Ohio voted (via an initiative) to ban smoking in all bars and restaurants. I supported that.

 

[giri]

They banned smoking in closed areas in brisbane about 4 years ago.

It was magnificent coming home from clubbing and not having my clothes smell like a bush fire.

As for smokers? i'm not one, so i don't care. My reasons are my own, but your smoking impacted more than just your self.

 

[EYEL1NER]

Can't really agree with this one..

Drive behind someone who is smoking.. your car will be stinking of cigarette smoke shortly...

This thread cannot handle the rate at which the hyperbole is increasing....

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

This thread cannot handle the rate at which the hyperbole is increasing....

It's not hyperbole whatsoever.

Are you a smoker? You are likely delusional. It's just a fact.. do you think there is some magic that makes the smoke you just blew our your window not enter the cars behind you?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

nVidiot_Whore, this entire thread your avatar has been in my peripheral vision and it's been a pair of whats-her-name's tits. I just had a good look at it right now and it's fucking carrot top's face on those tits.

Protip: Google Czech Christina Hendricks. Thank me later.

 

[Deified Data]

I don't smoke, so I love it.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

When the WA State smoking ban passed, I knew quite a few smokers.

I don't think a single one of them was against the ban.. they all supported it. And they were mostly "I smoke when I drink" type people.. so the ban pretty much affected all of their smoking.. (although they drank.. a lot.. lol)

I think I actually knew more non-smokers who were against the ban.. I worked with some libertarian types who gave the whole "business rights" shpeel.

My group of friends who mostly smoked were almost all die-hard liberals.. and while I'm not friends with them anymore, all of them also eventually quit smoking. Although I ended a relationship with one of them, partly because she continued to be a smoker (and when we started the relationship, had lied to me about this fact, and continued to lie and try to hide it from me).. hence why that group of friends are no longer my friends.

Pretty much all of my long time friends aren't, and have never been smokers. As I said earlier in the thread, I generally get along better with non-smokers, even ignoring their habit I find disgusting.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Are you a smoker? You are likely delusional. It's just a fact.. do you think there is some magic that makes the smoke you just blew our your window not enter the cars behind you?

Well, I'm not going to pretend to be able to account for everyone. I'm an ex-smoker, here, and I can generally pick up on people smoking around me. There have been times where that sweet, siren odor has caught my nostrils from across a parking lot.

Now, I'm not trying to antagonize you or suggest you're a liar, because everyone is different. But I will concede that I was somewhat surprised by that statement. At stop lights in the city with the windows down? Yeah, I notice it. Otherwise, with the windows up, I've never gotten that sense that someone is smoking around me.

I understand that it's entirely possible that others might notice it, though. I always figured that the more popular argument would be complaints about people just throwing the lit cigarette out the car window when finished. Practically everyone I know who smokes in their car does that. I did as well.

 

[abrack08]

It's not hyperbole whatsoever.

Are you a smoker? You are likely delusional. It's just a fact.. do you think there is some magic that makes the smoke you just blew our your window not enter the cars behind you?

I'm not a smoker, and I'm against smoking, but I've never smelled smoke from a car in front of me. Unless maybe they're smoking out the window and my window is also open, I guess.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Otherwise, with the windows up, I've never gotten that sense that someone is smoking around me.

I understand that it's entirely possible that others might notice it, though.

Well, I can honestly say I notice it almost constantly. And I am almost always driving with my windows down.. I live in Seattle.. it rains a lot.. and when it's hot, I use my AC.

I believe we do have a lot of air pressure here.. causes air stagnation for a good part of the year.. could contribute.

I'm admittedly sensitive to smoke though.

So perhaps I'm in the minority on this one.. my GF feels the exact same way though.

Part of my angst also comes from being a sufferer of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_headache

Something called Cluster Headaches.. even a whiff of cigarette smoke can be a trigger for me.. after-all, it's extremely poisonous smoke.

The other aspect of my angst? Smoking is entirely pointless.. the ever so slight buzz from the stimulant is not worth the addiction and the stench. It's just stupid.

 

[Wiktor]

Kicking them in the wombs would probably end in better results than two babies that lived decrepit lives the whole time.

Ermm...ease up. Smoking during pregnancy is dumb, but most children of smokers are still born perfectly normal. Kicking woman in the womb is a lot worse and has bigger propability of hurting the pregnancy.

 

[Wiktor]

Working in a safe and toxin-free environment, however, is a right.

No, it's not. THere are tons of jobs where you put your life and health at risk.

 

[Mdeezy]

Im all for it. Keep your disgusting smoke to yourself.

 

[Hilbert]

I can sometimes smell it between cars, but generally not enough for me to care.

 

[Wiktor]

like someone else said about the "right to allow smoking at a bar" why shouldn't they be given the "right the feed their customers old, stale food, or food that's gone bad" it would be cheaper for the business, wouldn't it? ?

Using this logic we should also ban all fast food restaurants, because they're obviously serving unhealthy stuff.
You example doesn't make any sense when you're limiting it to smoking in restaurants. Why is one's health worth protecting solely in that one place and solely against selected threats?

Realisticaly whoever imposes smoking ban is a a little bit of a hypocrite, because if smoking is so terrible that it justifies such a ban, then it should also justify complete ban of selling cigaretes.

 

[abrack08]

Using this logic we should also ban all fast food restaurants, because they're obviously serving unhealthy stuff.
You example doesn't make any sense when you're limiting it to smoking in restaurants. Why is one's health worth protecting solely in that one place and solely against selected threats?

Realisticaly whoever imposes smoking ban is a a little bit of a hypocrite, because if smoking is so terrible that it justifies such a ban, then it should also justify complete ban of selling cigaretes.

You can buy cigarettes and smoke on your own and not bother anyone else. When you smoke in a restaurant, you're harming everyone around you breathing it in. That's different. It's not "Cigarettes are dangerous!" as much as it is "Cigarettes and dangerous and unpleasant for those AROUND you, even those choosing not to smoke"

That's not fair for us.

 

[Wiktor]

You can buy cigarettes and smoke on your own and not bother anyone else. When you smoke in a restaurant, you're harming everyone around you breathing it in. That's different. It's not "Cigarettes are dangerous!" as much as it is "Cigarettes and dangerous and unpleasant for those AROUND you, even those choosing not to smoke"

That's not fair for us.

That's why there should be smokers-only restaurants. I'm not a smoker myself, but I don't see why I should have the right to avoid smoke in everysingle place in the city. THere should be concessions handed out to small parcentage of restaurant that would allow them to have smokers inside. This way everybody would be happy. Normal people would just have to avoid the few restaurant where smoking is allowed.

I mean really...you can smoke in your own house, but using the "Cigarettes and dangerous and unpleasant for those AROUND you, even those choosing not to smoke" logic shouldn't we ban smoking in houses too whenever a non-smoker is visiting?

 

[dudeworld]

Using this logic we should also ban all fast food restaurants, because they're obviously serving unhealthy stuff.
You example doesn't make any sense when you're limiting it to smoking in restaurants. Why is one's health worth protecting solely in that one place and solely against selected threats?

Realisticaly whoever imposes smoking ban is a a little bit of a hypocrite, because if smoking is so terrible that it justifies such a ban, then it should also justify complete ban of selling cigaretes.

mcdonalds will only have an unhealthy effect on you if you lead an unhealthy life style (mcdonalds all the time, no exercise, etc.)

smoking will have an unhealthy effect on you (and others around you) no matter what

food that has gone bad can have an unhealthy effect on you no matter what your life style is.

as you can see, your fast food example is not quite the same. Also, if smoking was banned EVERYWHERE (i.e. made illegal) then I would agree that it's hypocritical to sell cigarettes. However, that is not the case therefore it is not hypocritical

 

[phosphor112]

Ermm...ease up. Smoking during pregnancy is dumb, but most children of smokers are still born perfectly normal. Kicking woman in the womb is a lot worse and has bigger propability of hurting the pregnancy.

You should see the shit we deal with. Cancer, pulmonary problems for the rest of their lives, infarcts... all of this can be seen during a fetal MR. This little kid had an infarction causing a cyst to grow on the corpus callosum... caused a mid-line shift...(its when the...middle "split" of the brain is pushed to one side or the other) which put pressure on the ventricles, causing them to enlarge because the blood could barely drain.

Kid needed a shunt for the cyst AND ventricles. Now he's got a huge spot filled with nothing but CSF cuz so much shit got pushed out of the way. Not only that but so much shit happened near the sella (the area where the pituitary gland is) this kid has a massive developmental delay.

That is all the stuff that happened just in my department, which is the neuro section. You can guess what the rest of the body has to deal with because of idiots. Shit is un-fixable because it does so much damage.

 

[Wiktor]

food that has gone bad can have an unhealthy affect on you no matter what your life style is.
.

I'm not so sure. I think the main reason why people have so many alergies today is because we're living and eating way to clean.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I'm not so sure. I think the main reason why people have so many alergies today is because we're living and eating way to clean.

That's only for people who are using air fresheners, febreeze, antibacterial soaps, and the such.

That doesn't have to do with getting allergies to cats and pollens. Nor does not being around smoke or eating good food make it worse.

 

[Wiktor]

That is all the stuff that happened just in my department, which is the neuro section. You can guess what the rest of the body has to deal with because of idiots. Shit is un-fixable because it does so much damage.

And damage from kicking woman in a womb is fixable? I'm not arguing that smoking during pregnancy isn't bad. I just find the notion that it's comparable to kicking woman in the womb to be ridiculous.

 

[Wiktor]

That doesn't have to do with getting allergies to cats and pollens.

I'm not sure. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I've never seen anyone with cat alergy who has been hanging around cats and dogs since he was infant. Bassicaly the sickest people I know are the ones who's mothers took really good care of them as children.

 

[phosphor112]

And damage from kicking woman in a womb is fixable? I'm not arguing that smoking during pregnancy isn't bad. I just find the notion that it's comparable to kicking woman in the womb to be ridiculous.

It was clearly a hyperbolic post I made...

A kid shouldn't have to suffer all their life because of an idiot.

If someone is going to be a fuck-head and rape and pillage someone, might as well put them out of their misery as well. Better for them, and easier for us to convict. The "freedom" to smoke shouldn't be allowed for pregnant people.

 

[dudeworld]

I'm not so sure. I think the main reason why people have so many alergies today is because we're living and eating way to clean.

My mother used to eat peanut butter all the time while pregnant with me, yet I was born with a peanut allergy. When I was born we had a cat in the house, yet I have an allergy to cats and dogs. My brother also shares this cat and dog allergy. I don't agree with you again.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I'm not sure. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I've never seen anyone with cat alergy who has been hanging around cats and dogs since he was infant. Bassicaly the sickest people I know are the ones who's mothers took really good care of them as children.

Ok, but being around a smoker is not good for a child, period.

 

[phosphor112]

I'm not sure. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I've never seen anyone with cat alergy who has been hanging around cats and dogs since he was infant. Bassicaly the sickest people I know are the ones who's mothers took really good care of them as children.

Not true. One can simply become sick from being exposed too much... I myself, have oral allergy syndrome. I became allergic to damn near most fruits because the allergens they have, resemble that of the trees I'm allergic too... I never had outdoor allergies until I got older. After living near hundreds of trees for over 20 years.

Was I took clean? No... too exposed? Yes.

 

[Hilbert]

I'm not so sure. I think the main reason why people have so many alergies today is because we're living and eating way to clean.

what exactly are you trying to say here? That we should eat spoiled food? I am a little confused.

 

[Wiktor]

My mother used to eat peanut butter all the time while pregnant with me, yet I was born with a peanut allergy. When I was born we had a cat in the house, yet I have an allergy to cats and dogs. My brother also shares this cat and dog allergy. I don't agree with you again.

I guess God just didn't like you very much
That said, you can get used to eating unsanitary food. Keeping it perfectly sanitary just lowers your ability to handle it. Of course that's a lesser evil I guess compared to the damage the lack of regulations could cause.

 

[Wiktor]

Not true. One can simply become sick from being exposed too much... I myself, have oral allergy syndrome. I became allergic to damn near most fruits because the allergens they have, resemble that of the trees I'm allergic too... I never had outdoor allergies until I got older. After living near hundreds of trees for over 20 years.

Was I took clean? No... too exposed? Yes.

I stand corrected then. I guess my own perfect health is making me insensitive to problems of others

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I guess God just didn't like you very much
That said, you can get used to eating unsanitary food. Keeping it perfectly sanitary just lowers your ability to handle it. Of course that's a lesser evil I guess compared to the damage the lack of regulations could cause.

So...

You're advocating we should give our kids food poisoning on purpose?

Look, I am sure that I will get Delhi Belly, Montezuma's Revenge, or the Curse of the Pharaohs when traveling while the locals won't, but I am alright with that. It also means I don't have to worry about Cholera or Dysentery, or a myriad of other illnesses.

 

[Hilbert]

I stand corrected then. I guess my own perfect health is making me insensitive to problems of others

I am willing to bet it is a in the middle ground. That not all allergies are created equal. Some are environmental(either from excessive exposure or not enough), and some are genetic, and some are just the person being unlucky.

 

[phosphor112]

My mother used to eat peanut butter all the time while pregnant with me, yet I was born with a peanut allergy. When I was born we had a cat in the house, yet I have an allergy to cats and dogs. My brother also shares this cat and dog allergy. I don't agree with you again.

Too exposed... your body got bombarded with these allergens. Even though your mother had the immuno capabilities to defend herself (and you, while inside the womb), once you got out, you were exposed to these things that would have hurt you if it weren't for her immune system.

Just with most anything in life, moderation is key. Drink too much milk? Lactose intolerance.
Too much sugar? Diabetes. Too many pets? Allergies... of course you can build up your immune system to allow for more and more allergens in your system.. but you know...

 

[Wiktor]

So...

You're advocating we should give our kids food poisoning on purpose?
.

No, that would be too much. But they won't die if they happen to eat something slightly spoiled from time to time.

And that pharaoh's curse kind of problems can be avoided most of the time by simply drinking a glass or two of vodka (or better yet, pure 90% + alcohol) after the meal.

 

[abrack08]

I'm not sure. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I've never seen anyone with cat alergy who has been hanging around cats and dogs since he was infant. Bassicaly the sickest people I know are the ones who's mothers took really good care of them as children.

I've had cats or been around them off and on my entire life and I'm allergic to them still. And I'm allergic to some random stuff in the environment, but I played outside as a kid all the time, I wasn't a victim of overprotective or overly clean parents. That shit just happens.


On a side note, I've never discussed this with my mom, but I'm PRETTY sure she smoked while pregnant with me. I had asthma as a kid, but I think I've mostly grown out of it. So smoking while pregnant is clearly bad but it's not this definite thing that's going to screw up your kid forever. Still, if you smoke while you're pregnant, you're an idiot.

 

[Wiktor]

Just with most anything in life, moderation is key. Drink too much milk? Lactose intolerance.
Too much sugar? Diabetes. Too many pets? Allergies... of course you can build up your immune system to allow for more and more allergens in your system.. but you know...

Don't you need to have weakness in your body already and just activate it by too much exposure? Or are you telling me that every healthy person will develop those problems if he gets too much exposure?

 

[Wiktor]

Still, if you smoke while you're pregnant, you're an idiot.

It's not that clear cut. Sure, we know it know, but before? When my mother was pregnant her doctor said it's too late to quit smoking and that it would cause more damage to me than just reducing the ammount of cigarates. Sure, the doctor was a moron, but I can't call my mother an idiot for believing him.

 

[phosphor112]

Don't you need to have weakness in your body already and just activate it by too much exposure? Or are you telling me that every healthy person will develop those problems if he gets too much exposure?

Every person has a weakness. We have a natural resistance to radiation... the radiation we get from the sun is often irrelevant to us... until we get sunburned... some have higher tolerances than others... but then you include other sources of radiation. Oh no! They are sick.

Now apply that to allergies or anything else that can cause issues...

Hell.. too much calcium will cause severe constipation and even bowel obstructions... it happens, and can happen to anyone, that's what I'm trying to say -___-.

 

[ReBurn]

I never went to places with indoor smoking. All the bans did was open up a lot more places for me to go.

 

[Wiktor]

Every person has a weakness. We have a natural resistance to radiation... the radiation we get from the sun is often irrelevant to us... until we get sunburned... some have higher tolerances than others... but then you include other sources of radiation. Oh no! They are sick.

Now apply that to allergies or anything else that can cause issues...

Hell.. too much calcium will cause severe constipation and even bowel obstructions... it happens, and can happen to anyone, that's what I'm trying to say -___-.

But allergies? I have no allargies and I don't think I would ever get cat allegry even if I would sit surrounded by twenty cats 24/7.
Also..to much calcuim is different from lactose intolerance. You're acting like everybody will develop lactose intolerance if he drinks to much milk.