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Hip Hop would be better without cursing.

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E

Esch

Banned
So you're saying that rhyme schemes and sampling/creating beats doesn't take talent at its finest? I would have to disagree. Yes the level of technical and instrumental entry is nowhere near that of Jazz and Classical... But who cares about that really. Liszt and Charles Mingus couldn't imitate or better Kool G Rap doing Executioner Style, so why draw such comparisons?
 
I

IceCold

Member
Staccat0 said:
Re-read what I wrote. I was complimenting Hip-Hop. I don't value talent. I value art.
At it's best, Hip-hop is a way for people with very little traditional "talent" to subvert popular culture and say something they need to say.
At it's worst, it's posturing bullshit.
There is obviously shades of gray between what I deem hip-hop at it's best and at it's worst in my view.
You are basically repeating what I said without my opinions and qualifiers attached to it.

Food and Liquor is my favorite album of it's respective decade along side maybe Kid A without checking release dates.
Click to expand...

Good Rap is not just about super deep stuff. It's not just like Illmatic.

In fact, rap took a while before it became like that. In the beginning it was like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKTUAESacQM

It's possible to enjoy both.
 
Z

Zoramon089

Banned
Staccat0 said:
If someone plays a very difficult piece of music that only one person on earth can play, I maye very well hate it. I will probably prefer a simpler and more direct peice of music that speaks to my soul.
I don't value talent.
I value art. I value things that make me fucking feel something.
It's not confusing, it's just a word people have attached to much meaning to in order condescend to others. If we gave a fuck about talent with any intellectual honesty, I assume this thread would be about Jazz music.

Fuck talent. I like what I like. Justifying it is for old people.

Arguments like this is part of why "conscious" hip-hop can be so fucking boring sometimes. Thats why I love Lupe, he doesn't forget the hooks, but his flows and lyrics have some meat I can digest over several listens without being well... unfun.
Click to expand...

But music is an art form. Being a talented musician isn't just about technical proficiency. Part of it is making music that's actually appealing and that people want to listen to, whether it's for the message, or the lyricism or because it's fun, all of that is part of what makes rappers talented. You can't just separate talent and art
 
S

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
EschatonDX said:
So you're saying that rhyme schemes and sampling/creating beats doesn't take talent at its finest? I would have to disagree. Yes the level of technical and instrumental entry is nowhere near that of Jazz and Classical... But who cares about that really. Beethoven and Charles Mingus couldn't cover Kool G Rap doing Executioner Style, so why draw such comparisons?
Click to expand...
I'm saying the talent is irrelevant to whether I like the music or not. Sampling is awesome because it's a re-purposing of popular culture to potentially subvert it or reframe it and couple it with a new message. I don't care if everyone can learn to do it, or if it's something innate.

It does take some talent to rise above the other crop of rappers, but my opinion is that hip-hop is amazing because it's a type of music that moves away from traditional stodgy ideas of music being about traditional talent.

I don't know why this confuses anyone... my parents raised me on punk music and weird art, I guess I come from a world where the world "talent" is not something you'd put on a pedestal and make mutually exclusive to good.

My least favorite musicians of all time are almost ALL extremely talented.
 
S

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Zoramon089 said:
But music is an art form. Being a talented musician isn't just about technical proficiency. Part of it is making music that's actually appealing and that people want to listen to, whether it's for the message, or the lyricism or because it's fun, all of that is part of what makes rappers talented. You can't just separate talent and art
Click to expand...
I can and I choose to.
Some musicians are both talented, and great artists. Other artists are the opposite. It's not a big deal.

Example: I fucking hate Wilco. They are extremely talented band. Jeff Tweedy has an awesome voice. They have a great guitarist and a good rythm section. They make music that bores me. I find their art to be bad.

Alternative:
Compared to Wilco, The Clash could barely hold their insturments. Joe Strummer often sounds like he's dying. I love their music. I think they are superior aritists.

EDIT: I was vague here...
I see your point and get it. The people who make art I like are technically talented at making art for people like me, but that's such a specific thing for each person it's hard to apply to a conversation with strangers on a message board. It also suggests that the most popular artists are also the most talented, which I don't agree with.
CRS said:
So do you consider Lupe to have any talent?
Click to expand...

Yes he has talent.
In the big picture he has less talent than a LOT of music (remember how much music exists) but who cares? I like his music. I don't think music is deemed good or bad based on talent. It's just opinions to me. Completely subjective.

I guess Lupe is maybe a more talented lyrcist than Busta, but a worse rapper... but it's all boring beard stroking. I don't really pretend thats why I like him more.
EDIT: To me, people get hung up on the word "talent" because it somehow justifies liking something. Art is too subjective for me to ascribe me enjoying something to it involving talent. My personal background and views are too singular (and so are all of yours) for that to realistically line up with some measure of talent... and it only matters when you are arguing on the internet.
 
O

overcast

Member
Belowtheheavens.jpg

Blu- Below the Heavens
Terrific album. Has those rotten curse words, but it has a real message. It's almost as if the two things can coexist.
 
S

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Router said:
I still love the old Fresh Prince stuff. Back when Hip Hop was about telling stories.
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Ghostface Killah tells some pretty engrossing stories man... He spins these webs of characters (sometimes redeemable sometimes not) and does it all without writing Christmas novelty songs.
 
C

CitizenCope

Member
Just noticed last night that most of my wife's songs on itunes had "explicit" tagged on them. She likes her hip hop. Me not so much.
 
P

Pinko Marx

Banned
Rap is crap without the C. 90% of today's teens and young adults listen to (c)rap. If you're apart of the 10% that listen to real music, quote this post.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I didn't meant to categorize all hip hop as heteropatriarchal and narrow mindedly money-focused. Not at all. It's an unfortunately dominant current in hip hop culture, and it permeates even so called "conscious hip hop" (hate that term), but it isn't inherent to the genre.
 
S

starchild excalibur

Member
I stopped taking the OP seriously at "garbage rapper."

I agree that sometimes profanity can be used as a crutch, but profanity can - and often has been - used expertly in rap.
 
F

FantasticMrFoxdie

Mumber
[Clark Gable];35357682 said:
No, and I wish people would read through the topic. Since it tl:dr I'm out.
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I read through it and I pretty much agreed with you for the most part. I just asked because Bill Cosby is known for being outspoken about Hip Hop and cursing.

Cursing in hip hop or poetry is fine by me in moderation and certain circumstances. Many rappers just don't know when.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
OP said Busta is a garbage rapper and I knew this thread was headed towards the deep end.

I do agree slightly though, some songs would be better if rappers didn't default to swear words, even worse off the same ones overe and over, to fill in their mad libs. Cole, a good and entertaining rapper, has this problem where he does as such and over saturated some songs with swear words to little beneficial effect. But in no way does that mean cursing and rap have to lie independent of eachother. Words are the medium for great rap and poetry, and I can't support any greatly limiting restrictions on that medium.
 
M

mr2xxx

Banned
This reminds me of when I bought wu-tang forever at wal-mart. It was pretty fucking awesome though, they censored the cuss words with karate effects and bees buzzing. I didn't know that it was censored until I listened to my friend play it.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
[Clark Gable];35351351 said:
So I am listening to a couple of Jdilla tracks, and Busta Rhymes comes on and the first 10 seconds is screaming the word fuck. I know he's a garbage rapper, but it just ruined the mood, and ruined Jays track. I hate when rappers substitute words with curses, it's why I don't listen to any mainstream shit. /vent
Click to expand...

Legend of the Liquid Sword motherfucker, listen to it. almost completely cuss free.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
LOL, at the dude saying hip hop (at its best) is "kids with no talent"
"Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?"

Dude, you know nothing about hip hop. Listen to Illmatic and tell me that aint brilliant fucking poetry?
How is a song like Pray not dense poetry?

look, mind state of a gangster from the 40's
meet the vicious mind of Motown's Berry Gordy
turn crack rocks into a chain of 40/40's
sorry my jewelery so gawdy
slid into the party with my new pair of Maury's
America meet the gangsta Shawn Corey
hey young world wanna hear a story?
close your eyes and you could pretend your me
a cut from the cloth of the Kennedy's
Frank Sinatra having dinner with the Genovese
this is the genesis of a nemesis
mother America's not witnessed since
the Harlem renaissance birthed black businesses
this is the tale of lost innocence as the incence burn
and the turn tables turn and that Al Greens plays
i see my mother's afro as momma taps her toes as she rolls her jays
and my poppa just left the house, in search of the killer of my Uncle Ray
and she's trying to calm my nerves, as i observe this is just one day
and what tomorrow has in store we could never be sure so all we can do is
Pray
the whole song paints an incredibly eerie snapshot of the 80's era crack wave. but oh wait, some condescending Gaffer says it's just kids with no talent.
lol.

Couple days ago, I had Cant Forget About You on repeat for like, 2 hours. Fucking amazing track, no cussin' and no slurs, cause you KNOW that had to be omitted for Nas to get clearance for that Nat King Cole sample at the end, lol.
anyway, just from Nas/Hova's library I can rattle off dozens of tracks with little to no vulgarity or slurrin. Show me What You Got, Nah Mean, Roc Boys, As We Enter, Bridging the Gap, Beach Chair, Shine on 'Em have zero cusses and slurs, Empire State of Mind, Lucifer, Moment of Clarity, Warrior Song, Meet the Parents, Minority Report, Made You Look, It Aint Hard to Tell, The World is Yours, and Where are They Now have so little if you sneezed you'd miss it.
 
G

Grzi

Member
Last time I used the term "real hip-hop" was when I was 17, a stupid high-school kid who thought he was special for listening to underground artists no one has heard of.

Nowadays, I like to say I listen to good hip-hop, and most music that could be (by CommonSense's standards - Dilated Peoples? Really?) classified as "real hip-hop" is straight up boring. I don't need music to teach me shit, I don't care about the message.

Oh, and hip-hop is the music genre, there is no rap music, rapping over a beat makes hip hop music. Simple.
 
C

CommonSense

Banned
Grzi said:
Last time I used the term "real hip-hop" was when I was 17, a stupid high-school kid who thought he was special for listening to underground artists no one has heard of.

Nowadays, I like to say I listen to good hip-hop, and most music that could be (by CommonSense's standards - Dilated Peoples? Really?) classified as "real hip-hop" is straight up boring. I don't need music to teach me shit, I don't care about the message.

Oh, and hip-hop is the music genre, there is no rap music, rapping over a beat makes hip hop music. Simple.
Click to expand...

I would not say The Ramones and Dave Matthews are the same genre because they both use guitars.

I would not say Gangstar and Lil' Wayne are tbe same genre because they both rhyme over beats.

Like it or not tbere is a distinct difference in style and substance.
 
R

Recon

Banned
CommonSense said:
I would not say Metallica and Dave Matthews are the same genre because they both use guitars.

I would not say Gangstar and Lil' Wayne are tbe same genre because they both rhyme over beats.

Like it or not tbere is a distinct difference in style and substance.
Click to expand...

Hip Hop already has those distinctions. You have conscious rap, Gangsta Rap, Party Rap, etc. You are right, there are distinctions, just not the idiotic rap vs hip hop. It is all hip hop. Just like I would throw Death Metal, Grunge, Alternative, Punk under the Rock Genre. It is all rock, but the differences are huge.
 
C

CommonSense

Banned
ReconYoda said:
Hip Hop already has those distinctions. You have conscious rap, Gangsta Rap, Party Rap, etc. You are right, there are distinctions, just not the idiotic rap vs hip hop. It is all hip hop. Just like I would throw Death Metal, Grunge, Alternative, Punk under the Rock Genre. It is all rock, but the differences are huge.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, I just don't share it. And Death Metal isn't even music :)
 
R

Recon

Banned
CommonSense said:
I respect your opinion, I just don't share it. And Death Metal isn't even music :)
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So you dont believe in sub genres? Are you a nutter? I vehemently despise Death Metal and the like, but it is still music, to somebody. You have a very one dimensional view of music it seems.
 
C

CommonSense

Banned
ReconYoda said:
So you dont believe in sub genres? Are you a nutter? I vehemently despise Death Metal and the like, but it is still music, to somebody. You have a very one dimensional view of music it seems.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I am definitely NOT saying anything otherwise. I'm myopic

Also in my opinion it's a lot like DJ's who don't spin actual records should be called software engimeers :)
 
R

Rand0m TAG

Member
[Clark Gable];35351351 said:
So I am listening to a couple of Jdilla tracks, and Busta Rhymes comes on and the first 10 seconds is screaming the word fuck. I know he's a garbage rapper, but it just ruined the mood, and ruined Jays track. I hate when rappers substitute words with curses, it's why I don't listen to any mainstream shit. /vent
Click to expand...

busta is a pretty good rapper. only rapper i know who doesnt curse is chamillionaire
 
S

ShinobiFist

Banned
CommonSense said:
I respect your opinion, I just don't share it. And Death Metal isn't even music :)
Click to expand...
You're posting common know classic tracks in those whole thread, while ignoring other gems people have posted that came out in the past decade. That proves to me you haven't heard shit at all. You don't listen to Hip-Hop like others do here. If you did, you would have posted current rap battles and beat standoffs. But of course you didn't, because you don't know anything at all about hip-hop, or music in general. Most of the Gaf-Hop community have a diverse taste in music that spans beyond your close minded Fuse/MTV brain. Anyone that says "This is Hip-Hop, This is not" Is clearly a salty old-man who can't rock his Fubu shirts anymore with his Karl Kani jeans, and krispy timbs....But of course, you have to Google those to know what they're, poser.
 
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