Support NeoGAF

[Conciliator]

Embarrassing shit. I'd love to be able to say I'm surprised, but...I'm trying to watch the video but it's tough. She's being a ridiculously good sport, at least at the start. Guys who wouldn't have the balls the to say a word to these girls on a one-on-one basis only know how talk to them in terms of their sexual frustration in a group-male setting. Pathetic.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

This is crazy though, Kayo has never said she has an issue and there are females who do take to the type of humor. Just look at Sherry she joked with Aris a lot and mentioned about she raped him and tells her friends that to body people is to "rape" them.

Miranda took it bad and it was on Aris to pick up on it and stop, he failed and fucked up.

Doesn't mean every woman suddenly had an issue with him.

Of course, with Kayo there's something of a language barrier---she may understand English fairly well but who's to say whether or not a native English speaker would find the same interaction creepy.

I obviously haven't taken a survey but I have to imagine that a lot of women would find what he did really damn creepy. I'm a dude but I have a hard time watching the video.

 

[enzo_gt]

I don't think he'd ever do something like this again - IF there are consequences. Not letting him on the mic would be one of those. If he's brought back into commentating again right away, what kind of signal does that send to him?

I'm sure he'll be thinking twice about what he says, but this is more a matter of punishment, and action by the community that they won't stand for this kind of behavior. His likely hood to do the same shit again is really secondary at this point.

If you want others to believe that this incident is one off, and unacceptable, there needs to be consequences for Aris - regardless of how likely he is to do it again.

Fair enough.

The problem with EviLore's supposition is that much of the community does indeed like Aris, and they won't just banish him on a whim. You may not shed tears but people who know him and his contributions won't simply push all the things he's done for many, many years aside because of this instance of him crossing the line. Putting him in a place where he is of diminished vocal influence in the community, okay I can vibe with that. But completely removing someone so they can't do any more good in the fear they'll highly unlikely put themselves in such a situation again is just silly. I don't understand the fear at all.

 

[MrBeggar]

Its an effing game. Talking shit no holds barred is unfortunately part of competitive gaming culture.
That being said for those that really did watch everything both she and Aris are to blame for their actions. At one point she started sounding like Iverson over 'trial practice" and obviously was non-cooperative. Constantly challenging Aris' suggestions while showing everyone that she clearly did not belong here skill wise.

 

[erpg]

Consequences do not always equal crucifying, though that is obviously one extreme that it could take. Personally, I don't know exactly what form that could take, but to simply let it slide seems like it could send a bad message.

Plus, how is one supposed to clean up the scene if people see that the community is unable or unwilling to censure its' own. Dialogue is great, but not everyone has good motives or will listen to reason. More people keeping shady things from happening in an active way would be great but the possibility of consequences aside from having to say you're sorry could help act as a deterrent.

So you use the event as a starting point to finally take means to curb it. Not punish someone because the community, stupidly enough, never tried to address it before, or simply give it a passing mention like inkblot (and this is why I stand firmly against them and think they're a largely incompetent group). But I think Aris can be the crux to finally get people in the scene thinking about how to act now that it's getting bigger. Getting organizers to monitor the trash talk and make sure it isn't grossly offensive. Changing the attitude to be more welcoming of new players, and setting up friendly learning booths for people to help others out in between money matches. Not promoting amateur hour stream commentators who blabber on about rumours or trash talk over a superimposed video of the current match.

Standing on the sidelines and calling out to crucify Aris is an abrupt and unnatural censure for an audience that simply isn't at the right mindset to accept the change. Yet.
I believe Aris' apology, and I also think Miranda was right in feeling uncomfortable even after it, because the mood was set. Punishing one guy will just confuse and anger the others who think that kind of environment is completely natural. The FGC atmosphere as a whole has to improve.

 

[Kifftopher]

You don't Ned to understand someone to be scared or creeped out by them.

All I'm asking has Kayo ever said she disliked or was uncomfortable around the man?

If so then we didn't need cross assault to say it was wrong and if not then we are looking for things to be wrong and actively trying to make things worse instead of handing the current problem.

You don't put the onus on the harassed to end harassment! Women are often intimidated into grinning and bearing sexism, especially in an environment or community that doesn't seem to give a fuck how she feels.

You can't just see how far you can take it until a woman is finally pissed off enough to complain about it, YOU TREAT THEM LIKE PEOPLE.

 

[wolfmat]

If someone doesn't like a type of humor then we need to respect that, however if others find it enjoyable you and I as well as everyone else have no right to tell them they can't enjoy it together.

I don't think it's humor. It's just shock laughs one after another. That's not funny, it's just reflex to laugh. Good job on figuring out that trigger. YAY

Not sure why this seems to be so awesome to so many people. It's like tickling people. We're good with the tickling. We get it, it tickles. Drop it.

Anyway, as long as you keep it in your 4 walls, sure, can't really complain about it.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Of course, with Kayo there's something of a language barrier---she may understand English fairly well but who's to say whether or not a native English speaker would find the same interaction creepy.

I obviously haven't taken a survey but I have to imagine that a lot of women would find what he did really damn creepy. I'm a dude but I have a hard time watching the video.

The video like Kayo?

He didn't do that much an you know what, he respected her as a woman, this is far better then what alot of his fellow FGC's commentator did when any one so much as mentioned Kayo.

Unless we have a woman who has had a problem with him, who has every right to say so I might add, comes forward or is willing to speak to us about we can't just decide what other people do or don't like.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

In the FGC. There will always be trash talk. People talking about each other Mothers, sisters, Grand-Mothers, their Fathers sexual orientation. Your sexual orientation. Love of fecal matter, failure to cleanse oneself, poverty, homelessness and an entire litany of crass humor.

However what this guy did crossed the line, as a male, that loves the trash-talk and boys club mentality and irreverent humor the FGC brings, Aris crossed the line. Not only should he be banned, but Miranda should have filed charges and he should be imprisoned or atleast put on probation or bond/bail.

We love the R-rated noise, but this guy carried it way too far.

 

[Beth Cyra]

You don't put the onus of the harassed to end harassment! Women are often intimidated into grinning and bearing sexism, especially in an environment or community that doesn't seem to give a fuck how she feels.

You can't just see how far you can take it until a woman is finally pissed off enough to complain about it, YOU TREAT THEM LIKE PEOPLE.

So are you going to kick Sherry out of the scene for saying she raped Aris? Are you going to boot out Dr Subzero for his show and talking about getting Sherry a date?

Are lounging to actively kick out all the men who gave Kayo a hard time because she used ro have different junk down stairs?

What each woman or man finds funny and acceptable differs from person to person, and so long as they feel it's alright then it is for them. We shouldnt have the right to make them feel differently.

 

[Hitokage]

People have gotten kicked off the mic before. It should happen again as necessary.

 

[EviLore]

Fair enough.

The problem with EviLore's supposition is that much of the community does indeed like Aris, and they won't just banish him on a whim. You may not shed tears but people who know him and his contributions won't simply push all the things he's done for many, many years aside because of this instance of him crossing the line. Putting him in a place where he is of diminished vocal influence in the community, okay I can vibe with that. But completely removing someone so they can't do any more good in the fear they'll highly unlikely put themselves in such a situation again is just silly. I don't understand the fear at all.

Is it a whim, or the result of statements that damage his character and damage the fighting game community by association, as long as that association remains? I'm going with the latter. "Banned for life," whatever, but I definitely wouldn't sponsor an event where he had a voice.

 

[Threi]

I would be really surprised if anyone allows Aris on the mic for a while

So are you going to kick Sherry out of the scene for saying she raped Aris? Are you going to boot out Dr Subzero for his show and talking about getting Sherry a date?.

I would, once again, wonder if the same vitriol towards Aris would be put towards Noel Brown, who actually physically assaulted another player.

 

[enzo_gt]

People have gotten kicked off the mic before. It should happen again as necessary.

Sp00ky certainly is never afraid to kick people off of the mic no matter who they are. Even Jaha got the boot. JAHA.

 

[Ferrio]

Sp00ky certainly is never afraid to kick people off of the mic no matter who they are. Even Jaha got the boot. JAHA.

Good, that fucker is annoying as hell.

 

[Fersis]

Sp00ky certainly is never afraid to kick people off of the mic no matter who they are. Even Jaha got the boot. JAHA.

Damn spooky had a rough night i guess.
Sup Swag Monsters

<3 Jaha <3

 

[Beth Cyra]

Damn spooky had a rough night i guess.
Sup Swag Monsters

<3 Jaha <3

Playing music into the mic wasn't smart and made watching the stream shitty so it was good he did it.

 

[faceless007]

What each woman or man finds funny and acceptable differs from person to person, and so long as they feel it's alright then it is for them. We shouldnt have the right to make them feel differently.

It's funny you're so concerned about people made to feel bad about their sense of humor being offensive. But not about women being made to feel unsafe and sexually harassed.

Because it wouldn't be fair to make anybody feel uncomfortable by telling them their jokes are really over the line. No, no one has a right to hurt anyone's feelings by doing that.

 

[Toxicplatypus]

I would be really surprised if anyone allows Aris on the mic for a while



I would, once again, wonder if the same vitriol towards Aris would be put towards Noel Brown, who actually physically assaulted another player.

Magus should be kicked off the mic too...pretty sexist that guy.

 

[Beth Cyra]

It's funny you're so concerned about people made to feel bad about their sense of humor being offensive. But not about women being made to feel unsafe and sexually harassed.

Because it wouldn't be fair to make anybody feel uncomfortable by telling them their jokes are really over the line. No, no one has a right to hurt anyone's feelings by doing that.

I never said that, I have agreed it was wrong with Miranda the entire time.

Miranda isn't everyone though, nor should we act like she is.

If we have more women creeped out. Then let that roast him. Deciding for Sherry or Kayo isn't our place.

 

[HK-47]

How can you know for sure? What if the guy deciding if you get the loan is a black racist?

Anyway, this is another discussion point. Sorry to go offtopic, just get annoyed a bit when people seem to state that only white people can be racist but not the victom of racism.

What can you say to a white person about their whiteness that could possibly ruin their day, much less anything else?

 

[PsychoSoldier]

What each woman or man finds funny and acceptable differs from person to person, and so long as they feel it's alright then it is for them. We shouldnt have the right to make them feel differently.

Wat

So are you saying that we should be more concerned about not restricting people's humor than we should be about making sure our humor doesn't cross the line and offend other people?

 

[Hitokage]

I never said that, I have agreed it was wrong with Miranda the entire time.

Miranda isn't everyone though, nor should we act like she is.

If we have more women creeped out. Then let that roast him. Deciding for Sherry or Kayo isn't our place.

Argument from irony? You say we shouldn't take this in a vacuum yet your statements imply being in a vacuum. Look, this isn't uncharted territory. We've been learning this as a society over the past century.

 

[Fersis]

Playing music into the mic wasn't smart and made watching the stream shitty so it was good he did it.

Oh i see. Too much swag. Swag.

Banning Aris is like sweeping dirt under the rug. The guy messed up should he be punished for life? How about a 'second chance' ?
(BTW those following this subject know my stance so nope, im not defending Aris)

Wow Evilore changed his avatar DAAAMN! :0

 

[Beth Cyra]

Wat

So are you saying that we should be more concerned about not restricting people's humor than we should be about making sure our humor doesn't cross the line and offend other people?

No censoring the type of humor is fine.

What isn't fine is going back and throwing out there that Kayo or Sherry dhad a problem with the man when neither have expressed any notion they did and one activly participated and returned the favor.

 

[USD]

You guys are watching Live On Three, right?

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv

 

[hteng]

Aris should stay on commentating, i enjoy his casts during EVO 2011, he is being punished for what he said and he's apologized for it. The next step would be up to the community to enforce and prevent this sort of behavior in any future events.

 

[Firemind]

Sexist, misogynist, harassing behavior is not appropriate; that much should be obvious. But it's also driving women away from all of these scenes, which benefits no one. Who wouldn't be for better male:female ratios in hardcore gaming and esports? It's not going to happen unless we take appropriate measures to address all this crap we see (or participate in) on a daily basis. That means condemning this sort of behavior and ostracizing the worst offenders.

I fully agree. The organizers need to send a message that this behaviour isn't tolerated in any shape or form. A half-baked apology from Capcom or the perpetrator does not cut it. Shut the whole thing down if worse comes to worst. Something to let the community know they're not sweeping this under a rug and are willing to address the prevailing issue of hostility towards women. Actions speak louder than words after all. If you don't believe actions are required with real consequences, you are only setting up yourself for future incidents. You, as in the community, need to take every possible action to prevent this from ever happening again.

 

[Doomshine]

No censoring the type of humor is fine.

What isn't fine is going back and throwing out there that Kayo or Sherry dhad a problem with the man when neither have expressed any notion they did and one activly participated and returned the favor.

Well, here you go, straight from sherry:

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174984873319215104

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174985868531077122

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174986905035866113

 

[FishStix]

You guys are watching Live On Three, right?

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv

if not, you're doing it wrong.

 

[udivision]

What can you say to a white person about their whiteness that could possibly ruin their day, much less anything else?

Uh... racism isn't just "what you say." It can be the motivation on how you treat people. And, beleive you me, how you treat someone can surely "ruin their day," or make them uncomfortable or offended.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Well, here you go, straight from sherry:

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174984873319215104

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174985868531077122

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174986905035866113

How do. Those tweets condem Aris? She says he stopped.

 

[Row]

When there is such a diverse group of people as the FGC, there is bound to be a wide array of different and often contrasting opinions; hell, it's the same way for pretty much any group of people who gather around one specific hobby or activity.

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

 

[notworksafe]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

Whoa what now?

 

[Threi]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

whaaaaaa



oh wow

 

[Judderman]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

...

 

[Riposte]

Not only should he be banned, but Miranda should have filed charges and he should be imprisoned or atleast put on probation or bond/bail.

Under what laws exactly? Jesus lol


EDIT: As diverse as a klan meeting. Like... how... do you... eyes?

EDIT: Plz explain before a mod sees it, I want to know more about the FGC.

 

[Fersis]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

Nope.

Have you seen any US stream? Any EU stream? We maybe sexist but racists? Not at all!!

 

[Threi]

Well, here you go, straight from sherry:

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174984873319215104

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174985868531077122

https://twitter.com/#!/sherryjenix/status/174986905035866113

Interesting tweets there.

 

[notworksafe]

Nope.

Have you seen any US stream? Any EU stream? We maybe sexist but racists? Not at all!!

We aren't sexists either. :|

 

[Doomshine]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

What? Have you seen an actual tournament?

 

[AZ Greg]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

Oh GAF...

 

[Beth Cyra]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

Top players on the streams.

Wong - Asain
Ricky - white
Die - Black
Yipes - Dominican

Yeah, totally a bunch of black and Jew hating whities.

 

[Fersis]

We aren't sexists either. :|

It was a joke. The FGC is one of the most racial diverse Game Communities out there.

 

[freenudemacusers]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

nope, as someone who has been to evo, not even counting foreign attendees, there was a huge amount of diversity of people. Huge.

you just trolled all credibility out from under you.

 

[udivision]

I'm not really all to surprised by Row's comments. Too many people see "sexism, racism, and bigotry," and assume the perps are "white males."

 

[Row]

Nope.

Have you seen any US stream? Any EU stream?

I've watched countless stream over the last 2 years, there's very little diversity.

Young males, incredibly immature, starved for attention they'll say absolutely anything tryhard, find quite a bit of humor homophobia and misogyny, and so on. The only real diversity is in terms of race, everything else is incredibly uniform. This profile makes up the vast majority of the community, and anybody who does watch streams knows this. Why do people pretend otherwise just because there's a handful of women and a handful of professional guys like ultradavid, they make up a minuscule portion of the community.

 

[Htown]

The FGC is about as diverse as a klan meeting, which is probably why such horrible traits are so prevalent within it, lack of exposure

This is comically off-base.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I would, once again, wonder if the same vitriol towards Aris would be put towards Noel Brown, who actually physically assaulted another player.

Do you not remember how hated Noel was for a long time amongst the peanut gallery?

If Noel Brown did anything even close to what Aris did he'd probably get even more heat for it than Aris has.

In addition, getting punched by a dude you were talking shit to is way different than for no reason other than being female getting harassed by someone with authority over you then having to spend hours upon hours for days with your (apologetic) harasser immediately afterwards only for them to seemingly justify their behavior on stream.

I don't know. Maybe my perspective is different because I've had friends who have been sexually harassed but just because a punch was thrown it doesn't automatically make it worse than sexual harassment.

 

[notworksafe]

I've watched countless stream over the last 2 years, there's very little diversity.

Young males, incredibly immature, starved for attention they'll say absolutely anything tryhard, find quite a bit of humor homophobia and misogyny, and so on. The only real diversity is in terms of race, everything else is incredibly uniform. This profile makes up the vast majority of the community, and anybody who does watch streams knows this. Why do people pretend otherwise just because there's a handful of women and a handful of professional guys like ultradavid, they make up a minuscule portion of the community.

Just like a klan meeting. Your comparison makes sense now.