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Game "Journalism": Major sites fooled by 4chan, Jason Schreier offers GAF apology
- Thread starter Ignis Fatuus
- Start date
Jasper Avenue
Member
Is there a reason that so many people want to be game journalists? I really don't see it being that rewarding (financially or intellectually). Am I missing something?
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
You can post whatever bullshit you want and get paid for it. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Browse GAF
Browse Twitter
Post salacious headline and image then copy paste GAF/twitter
Profit
Neuromancer
Member
Well if you enjoy playing video games it seems like a great job. Not sure how the pay is but you get to play games for free, often before everyone else.
You get to write about what you love. You get to play games before they're released and, if you do it right, you don't work very hard at all.
I've been paid well to write about games. And I've always found I could challenge myself to write in a way that was creative/interesting/funny.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Probably because most people who want to really enjoy video games. People love to work in a field they're passionate about. And video games draw out a lot of passion.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Oh yeah.
It's the job you take if you want to get into video games but don't have any skills like programming or modelling.
I did not mean this in any insulting way, mind. I've worked on game magazines and Web sites, and there's a lot of work to be done. Covering E3 for a Web site is hell on Earth.
If you are organized and disciplined the workload is never tremendously daunting.
Or testing, which is easier to get into and a more direct route.
Jasper Avenue
Member
I can see the appeal of it. Personally, I think I'd probably end up hating games if I had to write about them for a job.
I guess I'm looking at it more from the bloggers perspective. Churning out stories about new screenshots and PR videos doesn't really seem like something anyone could be passionate about.
You are correct here. Writing about games for an extended period of time does tend to spoil their magic. By the time a game was released, I'd have written about it four or five times and knew most (if not all) of its secrets.
It is now a thrill to approach a game and have no idea what to expect from it.
And, yes, a lot of game journalism work involves churning out bland posts to meet a minimum requirement for minimal pay. It's this drudgework I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Incorrect usage of semicolons makes me want to murder pandas.
Regarding this thread - this is why I prefer Wired over all other news sources. At least they've got their shit together.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Ding dong. This is pretty much it. If you literally just play games all day and have no skills but talking about games. You get to become a part of the advertising industry.
Separating crap from more crap?
AzureNightmare
Banned
Didn't GAF already reach a consensus on you not being allowed to talk?
Stabby McSter
Member
excuse you
They are consistent in gaming "journalism", have to give them credit. They'd need some reconstructive surgery by now though from all the black eyes they've received this gen alone. This act shouldn't really surprise anyone at this point though to be honest. Not able to get the facts straight on a release candidate, glossing over major flaws/bugs, and then stuff like this has been common practice this gen.
Below.
The site was most definitely banned yesterday; this thread had a Kotaku URL in the OP that was beset by asterisks. I'm certain the article was sourced from Kotaku as the title matched up character-for-character and the OP pasted the URL in its entirety, inclusive of references to Kotaku's social feeds.
Edit: And, hey, the post was last edited by a mod, sans the common "mod abuse" disclaimer. How peculiar...
Didn't Schreier leave Wired to join Kotaku?
Castor Krieg
Banned
You're pretty much spot on, but not everyone can make it as A-list journalist with BBC, or CNN. There will always be more journalists than there are places in reputable companies. These people have to earn a living, and since they also love videogames - why not combine both?
It might not really be a problem with them (but I'm sure a lot of game enthusiasts got C at university), the problem is gaming "press" being so closely connected with publishers i.e. publishers have so much influence over how they deliver the content. Exclusive features, trips to see studio offices, exclusive previews - all that means gaming media is rarely anything else than PR mouthpiece.
Add to that Kotaku's and Gawker's modus operandi of "clicks! clicks! clicks!" to generate ad revenue, and you see why they HAVE to post things they do.
I was actually shocked when I learned Crescende was an investigative journalist before joining Kotaku. Talk about change...
Night_Trekker
Member
That post from WanderingWind is a thing of beauty.
What's fucked is I'd bet a large number of people that write for gaming sites would probably rather be writing for a more traditional news outlet. Some place respected where they'd be taken more seriously. And the people that are actually good at it and that want jobs specifically in gaming are often bloggers without the proper education to be hired by a place like IGN.
Unhandled Exception
Member
I review games for a living and I'd never call my profession journalism or anything near it. Blogging, sure. Journalism? Last I checked being a journalist required one to research, verify and fact check before even dreaming of publishing any piece of work. Press release regurgitation and blatant laziness in cases like these have as much to do with journalism as cheerleaders having to do with sports. Its all about grabbing attention and nothing more. ETA on IGN removing author names from all articles? They'd be able to get away with more of this kind of shit, that's for sure.
Edit: To clarify, I've also done the news article thing as well as a weekly column. Being a reviewer is inherently different from being a journalist in any industry and I'm well aware of that. I was more commenting on the practices of those around me.
Edit: To clarify, I've also done the news article thing as well as a weekly column. Being a reviewer is inherently different from being a journalist in any industry and I'm well aware of that. I was more commenting on the practices of those around me.
+1
This just proves how important a good editor is. Im pretty sure Wired has a very strict process in place to ensure that nothing unsuitable gets published. Meanwhile, Kotaku seems to lack any rules at all, permitting anything to be published as long as it brings in some clicks.
When I was made redundant from Rebellion I did looking into swapping to the journalism side of the industry. I felt I would have been useful; eight years' direct experience within the production process, a passion for and fairly broad knowledge of games, and the ability to rite gud.
After some research I came to the conclusion - possibly erroneously - that I shouldn't really try, since everything seemed to suggest that without an English degree, it's not a realistic prospect. That left me a bit disappointed, since it's something I firmly believe I could do a better job on than others. I'd at least do a basic smell test on a source like this!
I know someone who was interested in joining the enthusiast press back when magazines were still doing well. He was looking at working for an automotive enthusiast magazine owned by Primedia or a game magazine owned by Ziff Davis. What he told me he discovered is that these magazines didn't pay for crap and that they were largely run by underachieving trust fund kids who were there for networking and industry contacts. There was no "journalism" happening. They were a conduit for advertising and that's it. The people who wrote for the magazines were there to usher that process along and basically act as part of the PR machine. In return they got free stuff.
It doesn't seem that things have changed much, if at all, since the death of magazines.
It doesn't seem that things have changed much, if at all, since the death of magazines.
Refreshment.01
Member
J-Rzez, i don't think this type of conduct it's subscribed to this gen, it has been pretty much present since publications starting handling some money, be it early 90's or today. What has become more apparent in recent times is that it is easy to spot any type of BS coming from these sources.
When magazines ruled the videogame info business they called themselves "journalists", as the illusion came to past, some of them claim to be "bloggers" or "videogame critics".
The only problem i see with these guys that have traditionally danced to the tune of publishers flute, is not this act but the lack of sincerity of them some time ago even to this day. Had they step up and proclaimed "the rules of the game" from the beginning to its readership instead of being constantly exposed, then i think there would be not such hard feelings from the average user.
Holy shit! This is a very important point to make and should be punctuated as much as possible. Even certain videogame critic that gets much sympathy fits that bill perfectly.
FlyingTeacup
Member
like the old egm/cgw crew? But then I'm not too surprised I guess seeing where they ended up afterwords. In every industry, networking is an essential game one must play, like it or not. on the other hand, they too needed the contact for the mag/web content.
Keep in mind that I was just repeating one man's experience. It's anecdotal. But it was definitely memorable. If I were a journalist I wouldn't have posted it because it wasn't verified.
You and your friend were misled.
I worked at a game magazine for Ziff Davis for three years. I was paid a salary that allowed me to live comfortably, without roommates, in San Francisco. My co-workers were not rich kids trading pay for insider connections, but rather normal folks who happened to love games and possessed some modicum of writing/editing talent.
I'd tell you that at the Ziff magazines advertising and editorial acted independently of one another, but you'd dismiss it. It's the truth, however. We in editorial chose our content and advertising sold its ad space and the two departments barely ever interacted. I guess this is easy to dismiss, but it's the absolute truth.
And your notion that no journalism ever took place is laughable. Truly, absolutely laughable.
Random bouts of shoddy journalism doesn't retroactively alter the history of the gaming press guys. There's been laughable moments but they're moments, not the norm.
...though, they are a bit more common than I wager one would like.
Clearly you've been paid to say this. I'm onto you!
...though, they are a bit more common than I wager one would like.
Clearly you've been paid to say this. I'm onto you!
ElectricBlue187
Member
This right here is why I waste my time exclusively on GAF. Here there are consequences for reposting unsubstantiated crap like this.
Refreshment.01
Member
"Anecdotal" doesn't necessarily mean is not true, we don't have to fact prove every casual conversation. However, anyone interested in the "video game journalism" issue that has stock one ear to the ground through the years have caught wind of how things operated in the inside, from people that actually worked there. There have been multiple examples.Keep in mind that I was just repeating one man's experience. It's anecdotal. But it was definitely memorable. If I were a journalist I wouldn't have posted it because it wasn't verified.
Absolutely man, people will be people. However, like i just said what hurts is the lack on transparency on their part. I remember some guys would go into editorials on how they defended their "journalistic integrity" and their reader ship against some evil oppressive corporation that wanted to impose them some kind of agenda. Maybe that was true for one specific case, but most of time the publication was indeed following some kind of imposed industry agenda. So what was the point of the bravado integrity bull shit?
Reminds me of Kotaku's XBox Pure "scoop" (full explanation on the Penny Arcade forums here.)
Protip: you're wasting your time, really. But I'm no example to follow on that, since I often do that, too.
Anyway, if It can help (lol, as if): I still have to know of a magazine or website where it doesn't work the way you mentioned. That's not to say I hold in high esteem all my colleagues in the field (it's the opposite, actually), but the way GAF puts lumps good and bad together just for a cheap laugh is unexcusable. How this kind of prejudice can be allowed by moderation is beyond me.
The funniest thing about this is that it wasn't even el_pollo_diablo's tip.
He forwarded on a post from another EG user who found the image on a Something Awful thread.
I quote:
"You're on the front page spuds. I forwarded your link (and the link to your post, above) to the EG news robot who has, er, attributed the story to me. Sorry about that.
Please don't hate me."
Full credit instead should go to: spudsbuckley
He forwarded on a post from another EG user who found the image on a Something Awful thread.
I quote:
"You're on the front page spuds. I forwarded your link (and the link to your post, above) to the EG news robot who has, er, attributed the story to me. Sorry about that.
Please don't hate me."
Full credit instead should go to: spudsbuckley
I don't disbelieve you and I'm not dismissing it. It's just as valid as what my acquaintance told me. Perhaps more so because you actually worked there rather than having stopped at the researching and interviewing process. I only say perhaps because I don't know you, but I have no reason to doubt you.
It's never, ever a good idea to trade in absolutes (see what I did thar) and I take your point accordingly.
This thread and the Phil Fish thread have really irritated me is all. In here we've got a 'journalist' who was one step short of sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and in the Fish thread there are copious amounts of ball washing on display, now including a photo of a game journalist literally cuddled up with the guy while comparing him (and herself) to Kanye West.
That's where we're at.
Refreshment.01
Member
That's a great fucking example of incredible misconduct and ego managing issues. First 2 guys in the post conspire to mine the credibility of the site originating the joke, when the credibility that it's on the line is theirs for not properly handling the information and just think of getting clicks. At least the third one did the proper thing and admitted the fault.
It's not even needed to have solid and undeniable proof, common sense is more than enough. Just look at some of the videogame press trends, like for example the relation and dynamics of publication review scores, score aggregating sites and publishers.
I do know and understand that the publisher's grasp in the industry is a strong one. One which grips is almost impossible for a publication to escape. However, there's no excuse for lack of transparency.