So ... what lies are we spreading, exactly?
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Game "Journalism": Major sites fooled by 4chan, Jason Schreier offers GAF apology
- Thread starter Ignis Fatuus
- Start date
So ... what lies are we spreading, exactly?
PrinceOfApathy
Banned
I don't know about you guys, but I have no problem being wretched scum.
VeryGooster
Banned
I was tempted to reply, but if he wants to be childish and drag this out to other social platforms, then whatever. He'll conveniently leave out anything regarding his bans on Kotaku, I'm sure.
Well, when you have more posts and reach Member status you get to be Rebel scum.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
I honestly can't believe he's let it get this far... What's the big deal about saying "I was wrong, it won't happen again, I'm sorry"? It was a obvious piling on mistake on all these websites' part, no foul in admitting you made a mistake and apologizing, instead of acting like an idiot.
It's easy to bitch about the writing standards displayed by some sites, but remember the writer is probably some immature kid with no professional background. It's a shitty situation, but I wouldn't hold it against him personally. He's obviously pretty insecure.
Should you really expect more from someone who probably gets paid as much as the guy that tears tickets at the movie theatre? There is no money in gaming jour... er, writing.
FAKE EDIT: Wrote out the above and checked out this guys site before posting. NYU alum, has written for Wired and EuroGamer and has been published in several national publications?! The guy needs to get a grip and stop acting like a 17 year old. Carry on GAF.
RustyNails
Member
He won't get told by pimply faced nerds on gaming websites! Why he's a journalist. He has standards!
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
You see...
This happening one time: hey, mistakes happen! Cozy stuff.
Happening two times: oh, okay, mistakes happen! Cozy stuff.
But when the mistakes keep happening for the 100th of times, I for one in for the agreement that we need all the hyperbolic response we can get to set those so-called journalists straight.
Since some people are so thick that good gestures and nice smiles are not enough anymore to steer them to the right path, we need to deliver a good smack and shoot a bazooka to make them hear you.
This same guy used to advertise his articles over on a GameFAQs board I post on (under the name Sukodish). We railroaded him off the board after the second or third time he did it and he threw a fit and started insinuating a bunch of things. Kinda hilarious to see the same guy making a fool of himself yet again.....but on a much grander stage hahaha
What I get from this is that he's a journalist when it benefits but only a poor innocent blogger when it doesn't.
BTW I see now Phil Kollar has piped in. Circle those wagons.
CamHostage
Member
Credited+copy-pasted 3rd party info or not, the point is that it's the same information on pretty much all gaming sites -- so, what are the journalists/paid employees of these magazines/sites/articles/blogs/whatever actually doing?
Some of them do feature interesting articles, information on unknown games/developers/etc, of course. But I think many gamers want news on many games, not just the 3-4 biggest upcoming games from various major studios. (Perhaps a bit extreme, but it's just an example.)
Heh, if you want to talk about the true business and issues of videogame news delivery, you might want to start a different thread...
But seriously, like you said, there's good stuff out there, and then there's the standard filler. It depends on the site, but with the way internet news has gone away from the tenants of journalism (by vast popular "vote-by-click" of the readership) combined with the clamming up of game makers thanks to PR and embargoes and binding contracts, the business of generating news is but a small part of most website's output. They have news, and it traffics like crazy, but putting a dedicated reporter on the beat generally won't yield better results, and following every story to try to reach its 'official' end ("CONFIRMED! Company Z said that it is indeed working on Project X") will 85 times out of 100 get you nothing.
That's shitty to think that it's a waste of time to do what'd be considered "journalism", but journalism is just a small part of the work that goes into making most gaming sites. The guy who broke the story is doing the work of a journalist, and chances are that's the only journalism he did that day; the rest of the day, he probably did the same kind of shitty content aggregation that we're talking about here.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Seriously, the way he's acted through this whole issue has been embarrassing. The whole explanation with his gut feeling and telling people on this forum to show evidence he's wrong.
Now this stuff on twitter.
Just say you made a mistake and will try to do better in the future and this would have gone away in 5 hours.
Now this stuff on twitter.
Just say you made a mistake and will try to do better in the future and this would have gone away in 5 hours.
I didn't know we took over the "wretched pit of scum" title from 4chan. :/
And LOL anyway. Someone please call the Waaahmbulance.
Jamesways
Member
THIS! I can't believe no one actually did the do diligence to contact Play.com? What the hell? They are the supposed source.
Awesome fact checking right there. "well sony didn't get back to me or said no comment" So it HAS to be true.
Now he's mocking and banning people for calling him out on it? That sure makes you more credible bud.
What a colossal child.
It is. Invites aren't currently open right now. Also, 'sup fellow Yetis.
Ugh, dumb baby yetis.
It's kind of weird seeing people from such a small forum posting here. I guess it's not unexpected, considering the audiences of this forum and LL, but still.
i kind of want to know your usernames so i can harass you...on-site ;P
Forearm Star
Member
It's because of you wretched scum, I won't look for video game news anywhere else.
<3
<3
SouthernDragon
Member
I can do his job, and better. In fact, I know of a few people IRL that can, and don't have degrees in the field.
Who do I contact? Instead of circling the wagons, those who claim to be journalists should be shying away from this fellow. How terribly unprofessional.
Who do I contact? Instead of circling the wagons, those who claim to be journalists should be shying away from this fellow. How terribly unprofessional.
This has really snow balled over the last 24 hours, but it's painfully obvious at this point that he's embarrassed. He tried to explain himself and standup for what he thought was right; however, that was clearly a huge mistake, one which I'm sure at this point even he regrets.
The bottom line here (and what that tweet proves imo) is that GAF is the online voice for core gamers. We may be the minority of the traffic that give these blogs and gaming sites their daily clicks, but our voices and feelings mean much, much more to the people who provide them with content. A vote of no confidence from GAF is like a disapproving look from their mothers. It has to be heartbreaking, because in many ways, they are one of us.
The bottom line here (and what that tweet proves imo) is that GAF is the online voice for core gamers. We may be the minority of the traffic that give these blogs and gaming sites their daily clicks, but our voices and feelings mean much, much more to the people who provide them with content. A vote of no confidence from GAF is like a disapproving look from their mothers. It has to be heartbreaking, because in many ways, they are one of us.
And apparently there wan't even a need to go far..or even call. On the same site that was used mostly as the source (Eurogamer) a person claiming to be an employee at play.com said it too:
Errrrrr, I work for Play.com, I've just checked our system and the only one of these that we have on our systems is Monster Hunter 3. The others are mock-ups some scamp has made using the Monster Hunter listing as a template.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... someone is having a bit of fun at everyone's expense!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... someone is having a bit of fun at everyone's expense!
Then adding that MH3 was the only one of the games that was listed (and it was removed). A little disclaimer; like "well, take it with a grain of salt, the image could be fake because of this and that"; would've been a good way for all the sites to handle it.
Now, the games could be coming, could be announced soon; but is the way that all this was handled what was just weird to many.
Nah, this isn't as bad yet. Maybe in another day if it escalates again...
SirPenguin
Member
Mine is a secret
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Dude is desperate as hell.
NeoGAF is just about the most level headed forum around considering it's main subject matter and size. Really impressive how much earnest and honest discussion takes place here thanks to the policies of its handlers.
I was writing for AMN at the time, but I broke it on my personal blog. I knew an employee up there that held a high rank, and he'd been talking about development for a long time. I'd been asking for a while if I could report it, and he finally let me as long as I didn't name names. I also later announced that Incog would disband after the release of Warhawk, and the same sort of circus followed.
Sony actually contacted me about both posts. They were extremely unhappy and threatened a black balling, which didn't really bother me because I wasn't getting anything from them anyway. Out of fear for my friend, I eventually deleted the first post about Warhawk, but allowed AMN to run the story on Rumor Reporter. I left my post up about Incog being set to disband, which was also widely shared about through blogs and such.
But yeah, I see your point. These days I always name my source clearly if I don't have the means of contacting the proper people to verify facts. Some times you just have to post a story, even if you are relying on another site's credibility.
He is probably a banned bitter gaffer
I'm just sayin', there's way more wretched pits of scum than GAF.
AceBandage
Banned
Not even the Cancer of the Internet?
Tsk.
I'm disappointed, GAF.
Tsk.
I'm disappointed, GAF.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
so juicy
it's nice to not see Giant Bomb on that list of sites
it's nice to not see Giant Bomb on that list of sites
CamHostage
Member
But think of it from his perspective: he BELIEVES that he had a solid lead and that not enough evidence has been put forward to prove him wrong. Now, lots of us on this thread believe there's plenty of evidence to deny (particularly now that somebody connected Play has chimed in, although taking that at its word isn't necessarily any better than taking the 4CHAN source as truth, nobody know who any of these people are involved in this story.) So he thinks he did due dilligence in contacting Sony about a story he sourced from another network, and he further did the responsible thing in writing a correction into his article. From his perspective, he did the right thing. And for it, he got shit on, he got demands for an even greater "mea culpa", he was dragged into a flame war over his qualifications as "a man", and he was made the greatest asshole example of everything that's wrong with gaming journalism.
And by the way, he was the ONLY person who actually responded to this thread. Every other journalist knew to stay the hell away from this hornet's nest and quietly address their news privately.
And also by the way, I can guarantee that nobody here hammering about the quality of fact-checking actually reached out to any one of these websites with an email asking for a retraction or confirmation update. Sure, there are a couple comments linking back to this thread, but most of them are way late into the activity and almost all of them are fuck-you-I'm-so-smart-because-I-found-this-GAF-post comments, nobody's actually calling for any action. "But I'm not getting paid to report news, why's that my problem?" Because if you're talking about crowd-sourcing the solution, that includes every step of the process. If GAF is going to be the ultimate news source, it has got to be responsible for the same actions and credibility checks that it is demanding from other sources.
...holy fuck, buddy. If your point in this is to change the ills you see in journalism, get out of your own goddamned way!
Contribute to the solution, not the problem.
That is also true. And nowadays, developers can speak directly to their fans on blogs, or forums, etc, but very few developers actually do - hopefully, though, in a few years, developers/people that work on the games will speak directly and often (As in, much more often than once or twice per month atleast.
) to fans. 38 Studios & BHG (They recently released Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.) often post on the official forums, in user threads etc, as a part of the general community, interacting with the posters and such. (Curt Schilling, Ian Frazier, etc.)
Or, if the developers keep hiding their games until release, maybe, in a few years, as a result of the increased attention by game-sites/magazines on developers, artists involved in games, what they are wearing, their clothing style, etc, cause of the lack of gaming-news, individual developers will be recognized by gamers as a superstar, slowly turning into something like the movie/music world.
Anyhow, they (Game journalists/game sites or magazines.) could probably find tons of interesting indie stuff/game-related projects on the net, like in forums and in other languages (They'd have to translate that of course.).
Gotta get dem delicious page views.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Well, you sort of answered your own question. We (well, I am not) getting paid to post here. It's really, sincerely, not my responsibility to check the veracity of other people's work. If, on some day in the future, GAF ceases to be a forum and evolves into a news site, you'd have a point. But, for now it's really just a forum.
A vile, scummy forum. Full of lies.
mercenar1e
Member
Jason is banning a lot of people.. he should become a mod over here! he would fit right in lol
John Rabbit
Banned
i'm sure how you get to 300+ posts without understanding that GAF isn't anything. it's GAF. it's a messageboard. it's a collection of equally like and unlike minded people who's loyalties shift from thread to thread.
GAF is not responsible for anything other than the actions of it's own members within the borders of GAF. we get to point fingers and call bullshit on others who attempt to be responsible for something OTHER than themselves; like journalists who can't do their job or refuse to take responsibility for their poor workmanship in stride.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
you CAN NOT just toss the bolded aside to bolster what you're saying here. Your first sentence doesn't imply the second. Why does it have to be responsible? Why does it have to include every step of the process?
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I'm not sure what you're reading into that, but whatever it is was probably not intended. That's my honest assessment of the situation. Apparently he likes making threads about himself and he can't stop talking now that he's in the spotlight. Either he is naive enough to be oblivious to the fact that this is drawing it out, or he knows and is doing it anyway. I was even going to follow up by saying I'm disinclined to continue updating the first post because I suspect that would just be giving him what he wants at this point.
The funny thing is, I agreed almost entirely with one of your earlier posts, especially the part where you pointed out that it takes armor to post on NeoGAF. I don't know what you envision the solution being, but you're hardly giving me much to go on there.
bigtroyjon
Member
Hey Jason's mother, he came into the thread to tell everyone GAF was wrong and he was right. Save the "poor him" BS.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
I understand that, and acknowledge it was a mistake, a totally avoidable mistake, but still a honest one. But the fact is, he WAS wrong regardless if he believes he took the right steps in the process, and instead of just saying that plainly and clearly he resorts to this nonsense. All I was getting at, especially since he put himself in the position to be the focus, is that if he just came out and stated why he thought he was taking correct action and then qualified it by saying "but I was in the wrong, it was unprofessional and I apologize for the mix up" then I don't think there would be such hostility.
But I see what you're getting at. But he still should have either A) not engaged at all; or B) said he was wrong, and took responsibility for his actions professionally. Instead he's playing the victim card and acting downright childish about it.
blizzardjesus
Banned
well this is Kotaku... not exactly a bastion of truth..
It's not circling the wagons. Former- and current game writers really don't care to be painted with gaming age's oversized brush.
More and more I'm coming to appreciate fart of war's quick-and-breezy dismissal of the idiots.
CamHostage
Member
Nowadays, developers can speak directly to their fans on blogs, or forums, etc, but very few developers actually do - hopefully, though, in a few years, developers/people that work on the games will speak directly and often (As in, much more often than once or twice per month atleast.
...
They (Game journalists/game sites or magazines.) could probably find tons of interesting indie stuff/game-related projects on the net, like in forums and in other languages (They'd have to translate that of course.).
I'd love it if I lived in a world where PSPminis.com and PlayStationLifeStyle were the norm rather than the exception, but PSLS exclusively broke T.U.M. and I've not seen a single post about that on GAF or any other major site despite it being the site that broke Last Guardian a while back, so how much clout and exposure do you really think you'd get out of digging into indies?
Look at GAF even, a good portion of the Japanese game news comes from AndriaSang.com, and all Anoop does is read the Japanese magazines and transcribe them. He's not generating any news, but he's making a living (and is earning kudos) by posting other's news for those who can't get it easily ourselves.
Plus, look at the Twisted Metal story: a journalist called David Jaffe, and he straight out on the record lied to him. Funny story, and I don't condemn Jaffe for it, but that happened.
The job of gaming "journalism" is fading quick with companies making their own news stories. The only thing left to break is bad news, and that's the hardest and most damaging (for the reporter, seeing as it's incredibly hard to substantiate and difficult to prove isn't slander) news to get. Content drives the interest, and if previews and reviews and videos and cross-cited news reposts do better clickthroughs than news-hounding, you give the people what they want.
