I think everyone's a sort of "grey" because you understand why they do what they do. You have clear motivations and reasoning. They're doing something that may not be so good because they had Y and Z things happen to them. With Joffrey it's kind of the same, except that those Y and Z things are his parents. His upbringing is his main motivation and reason he's such a cunt. He's clearly a product of both his mother and his father. His father has no respect for women, and less for his own wife, so obviously Joffrey isn't going to really grow up with much of that. His father also always got what he wants, so that's how Joffrey sees kingship. At the same time Cercei was kind of bringing him up as a sort of revenge to Robert. He was her hope toward the crown and the power it holds, since she held not much sway over Robert himself. She raised him to know he would one day be powerful and could one day get whatever he wanted. Except she kind of counted on being able to manipulate that more. But, again, he takes after his father in that way. He won't be manipulated by her. So his abhorrent treatment of Sansa and his disobeying of every adviser around him is a product of all of that. He never really gets any consequences for his actions before becoming king, so obviously he isn't going to think any of that through while he is king. Think of when he got in the fight with the butcher's kid and Arya. The kid and the wolves were killed. That's exactly the consequences that he's making happen as king, too.
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*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)
- Thread starter Cornballer
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I think everyone's a sort of "grey" because you understand why they do what they do. You have clear motivations and reasoning. They're doing something that may not be so good because they had Y and Z things happen to them. With Joffrey it's kind of the same, except that those Y and Z things are his parents. His upbringing is his main motivation and reason he's such a cunt. He's clearly a product of both his mother and his father. His father has no respect for women, and less for his own wife, so obviously Joffrey isn't going to really grow up with much of that. His father also always got what he wants, so that's how Joffrey sees kingship. At the same time Cercei was kind of bringing him up as a sort of revenge to Robert. He was her hope toward the crown and the power it holds, since she held not much sway over Robert himself. She raised him to know he would one day be powerful and could one day get whatever he wanted. Except she kind of counted on being able to manipulate that more. But, again, he takes after his father in that way. He won't be manipulated by her. So his abhorrent treatment of Sansa and his disobeying of every adviser around him is a product of all of that. He never really gets any consequences for his actions before becoming king, so obviously he isn't going to think any of that through while he is king. Think of when he got in the fight with the butcher's kid and Arya. The kid and the wolves were killed. That's exactly the consequences that he's making happen as king, too.
Renly was the one on the hunt with the king and whatnot from S1. Stannis has been mostly in Dragonstone being an isolationist and stuff.
The thing about the Dragons and Melisandre though that I'll say as someone with no knowledge of what happens besides just some intuitions I've got going from last night is:
A) Dragonstone is called DRAGONstone.
B)The seven gods are being abandoned by a reckless group who we don't know much about in terms of motive but who are somewhat magical and who have dragons carved into their walls.
C) Dragons are roaming the land and under the protection of the family who conquered the seven kingdoms with dragons, but who are at the moment very weak.
D) Both Stannis and the Targaryen/Dany forces could use some military help.
and E) In book 1 some of the backstory you get says that all of Dany and Viserys' family were murdered in or around Dragonstone, it being the last refuge of the Mad King's heirs and their children (Dany/Viserys, their mom).
That's what Harvey or whomever is also trying to get at, maybe at least. I feel like it would be sweet to invade an island fortress with dragons to help/defend once you capture it for one and maybe that's all anyone wants to believe here.
He's the king of the wildlings that have chosen to seek refuge in some sort of fortress city in the far reaches of the north is all that the show has told us. Also he has some backstory with L.C. Mormont apparently. I think he is also somewhat of a noble person in that regard even though he lives in the middle of nowhere.
All that was said on the show is that he's gathering the wildings together and fancies himself a king of the wildings.
Last Hearth
Member
I think it's stated that he's a former Brother of the Nights Watch that deserted.
walbertsmith
Member
So what happens when those signs are being interpreted by different people? I like how you completely ignored the rest of my post, detailing how different people can interpret the same sign. If one person says it means victory for the Starks and another says dragons and another says great warrior... how can you say one of those for sure is right and the others aren't?
Now THIS is evidence from the show. If Harvey had mentioned any of these things, there would be stronger evidence for his position. Instead, the basis for his position consisted of "she likes fire" and "it's possible". Not exactly a strong case there.
With that said, yes, Stannis' location does have a tie to dragons. However, note that this isn't Stannis' traditional home (being a Baratheon, his family comes from Storm's End). Dragonstone is originally the Targaryen stronghold, and that's where all the dragon references come from. There's definitely a possibility to a link there.
I feel like he is maybe one of those people who've read something we haven't and is trying to troll someone into revealing some shit to debunk something he says. It's fun trying not to say anything that was stated in the original, nonexistant rr martin book I heard he wrote regarding the family lore...maybe stuff on the hbo website is ok to discuss cornballer? The maps and whatnot specifically at least.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
No, Bran says she was kidnapped.
I'm thinking that is the "official story"
Old Nan should have had that line, but the actress playing her died and her character was written out. Giving that line to a wildling was an odd choice.
ElectricBlue187
Member
I don't know what you're getting at, that Snow is Liana's son with the Targarian? That makes no sense
Ned told the king who Jon's mother was
And the Targarian killed Liana
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Oh, I see what you're saying. When I was watching Season 1 for the first time, and saw the scene where Ned figures out that Joffrey is not the king's son because of his hair color, I thought that they might be hinting that Jon could be Benjen's son since Jon's hair matches Benjen's more than it does Ned. It sorta made sense to me since there would be a motive to keeping the secret since Benjen isn't allowed to have kids and why Ned doesn't want to talk about it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He's hinting that maybe Jon was Lyanna's kid, and that the story of Jon being Ned's bastard is the coverup.
Ned is a man of honor, I don't believe he had a child with another woman. I believe Ned covered up for his sister because if Robert found out that she has a son with another man he wouldve lost his shit. Jon Snow has Targaryen blood. Ned made up the story that he was a bastard for his sisters sake. That's my theory
How did Liana die ?
Right, but before Stannis left for DragonStone he was in King's Landing. It wasn't shown on the show but we know Stannis was there and abruptly left. Ned believed it had something to do with Jon Arryn's death.
Since Vary's knew the whereabouts of the Targaryens one can speculate that he shared this info with the group before the events that have transpired on the show.
I'm sure who knew what will get sorted in due course.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Everyone says that she was killed by her captors. You'd have to believe that everyone is lying in order to say that
Yup he seems like a really interesting character and I really wonder what his motivations are.
Also can someone tell me why despite Joffrey being king he is still a child, why can't his mother or grandfather put him in line? I mean does every guard automatically do his entire bidding automatically despite him being a bit mad? I suppose we'll find out how this works out as the season progresses.
He's very much a conflicted character but also a murdering bastard. He seems to treat Sansa better than the king as well.
His grandfather is off at war. I'm sure if he was there he'd get him in line easily. He doesn't seem to have any qualms telling it how it is and putting people in their place. As for why his mother can't put him in line... I think she kind of created a monster. She built him up to be a power hungry asshole (and Robert didn't help either). She also loves him and has him as a sort of fuck you symbol towards Robert, and I think that has her blinded a bit. She knows enough when he really fucks up (with beheading Ned), but I think outside that she just can't see what's wrong enough to reign him in.
As for guards automatically doing his bidding... uh yeah. The kid has no qualms with killing people and/or cutting out their tongues. You bet your ass I'd do whatever he asks right away if I were a guard that valued my life. Also, there's a huge sense of loyalty and of oaths being absolutely binding in this series. Jaime is mockingly called the kingslayer, even though the king he stabbed in the back was completely bonkers and everyone hated anyway. He essentially ended their rebellion and did what everyone was trying to do and is still hated for it.
i thought shaggydog boy rickon, was in the ep. who was it near the start, the kid sitting in the hall imparting knowledge as part of his duties, was that bran?
also im really excited to see whats beyond the wall. when ever the wildling with bran speaks you get the feeling she knows whats going on. in s1 she says they had planned on going much further south, so she knows what shits going to go down. shes also aware of white walkers and likely anyother mystical beasts living up that way so i really want to hear more about what she knows.
for this reason im excited with snow and the others heading north.
also im really excited to see whats beyond the wall. when ever the wildling with bran speaks you get the feeling she knows whats going on. in s1 she says they had planned on going much further south, so she knows what shits going to go down. shes also aware of white walkers and likely anyother mystical beasts living up that way so i really want to hear more about what she knows.
for this reason im excited with snow and the others heading north.
I got the impression that he spared the fool for Sansa, not out of any regard for the fool
Has Ser Barristan been re-cast for this season, or has his story just been dropped? He was last seen being forced into retirement by Joffrey and Cersei, which he took as a great personal affront. He was a well respected member of the Kingsguard and seemed friendly to the Starks. He could prove to be very significant.
Will he be making an appearance at first light on the fifth day, at dawn, to the East, riding a great white horse?
Will he be making an appearance at first light on the fifth day, at dawn, to the East, riding a great white horse?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If you want to know stuff about the fates of characters and casting info that could be considered spoilers it might be best to do it in the other thread.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Possible spoiler for the next episode (very mild, but still awesome)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5866/jop1q.png
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5866/jop1q.png
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I was simply answering your first question:
She MIGHT know they exist because of the foretelling of the comet. I'm not saying this is the case, just that there is evidence that at least some people associate the comet with the return of dragons. Plus if Robert knew about Dany and Viserys then it's quite likely that Stannis would as well. You were trying to argue that there is no way she could have known about Dany or about the dragons. That's just as much speculation as thinking she does since we really don't know much about her yet.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think what he was trying to say was that her definitely knowing about them is a bit of a stretch to make, not that there is no possibility of her knowing. Since Jorah saved her life, he isn't sending information to Varys anymore.
Yeah that sounds like a variation on a song they used last season. It was fantastic.
walbertsmith
Member
And ignoring the rest of my post.
Exactly. Rentahamster gets it. I'm not saying these associations are impossible, just that they're leaps of logic based on what's been shown to us. There's been absolutely nothing about Melisandre that shows that she's aware of (or cares about) Daenerys' presence. Could they show this in future episodes? Of course. Have they shown it thus far? Not one iota.
I'm still not following why she couldn't grasp the meaning of the comet more than the others considering she was the only one that predicted something not tied to nationalism.
Further, from last season, she actually was familiar with lore whereas others often viewed it all as superstition. If someone would know what a red comet in the sky means, I'm going with crazy wild lady any day of the week.
Plus we know that out of all of the guesses, hers was the one that it 100% correct- faith realized.
I don't think the politics surrounding the dragons concerns her one hoot.
Further, from last season, she actually was familiar with lore whereas others often viewed it all as superstition. If someone would know what a red comet in the sky means, I'm going with crazy wild lady any day of the week.
Plus we know that out of all of the guesses, hers was the one that it 100% correct- faith realized.
I don't think the politics surrounding the dragons concerns her one hoot.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Watching start of the new season currently, who's the hot redhead?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
My waifu
they also mentioned that he has twice as many men than any of the other armies
ElectricBlue187
Member
walbertsmith
Member
I missed the whole story. I thought he had the largest army in the North and is amassing it to attack the South.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That's what I always wondered...how the hell do they live there if it's frozen the whole time? A village can't sustain itself without some form of agriculture.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
They eat snow hamsters.
Osha mentions dragons.
I'm not following the main argument since it seems kind of pointless except to say that whoever said red comet = dragons has been most correct.
I thought this was interesting. I always wondered this about Eskimos or other people who live in cold areas.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns...-only-meat-and-fish-why-didnt-they-get-scurvy
walbertsmith
Member
Yeah, that's exactly my point. She also mentions how the comet portends victory for the Starks... also victory for the Lannisters. It's funny how you are so adamant that the comet means dragons despite the fact that the person saying it offers multiple reasons for what it could mean. That was the point of the entire scene.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Sure, he's just gotta fight the Balrog first.
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