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Wii U Speculation thread IV: Photoshop rumors and image memes

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Terrell

Member
Even if they work flawlessly, the problem is that they don't are clickable, like a thumbstick is. It would make ports to the Wii U more difficult, as there's two buttons less compared to the others.

Can't say I've ever used click sticks in a game before, and some of the use-case scenarios I've heard about just seem incredibly ancillary to pre-existing options. For example, someone in one of these speculation threads said that the left click-stick was mapped to a RUN function in an FPS game. Doesn't that completely eliminate the purpose of having analog movement?
 

M74

Member
Can't say I've ever used click sticks in a game before, and some of the use-case scenarios I've heard about just seem incredibly ancillary to pre-existing options. For example, someone in one of these speculation threads said that the left click-stick was mapped to a RUN function in an FPS game. Doesn't that completely eliminate the purpose of having analog movement?

In shooters the L3/R3 are usually mapped as the zoom or melee buttons.
 
Obviously you haven't pumped 1000+ hours into Zelda and Mario on N64/GC ;)

But I can let it slide (no pun intended) for a portable. It makes sense there. But for a console? Hells no.

Maybe not the best idea for a console but I'm both a Grandmaster Galaxy and World 8 Crown veteran FWIW, so yeah I'd like think I've put enough time on both sides to be objective.
 
Considering how easily one can accidentally activate a click stick, that just raises further questions for me.

Pretty much this. I've always hated L3/R3 buttons, especially in shooters. I always press them on accident while turning sharply, and when I WANT to press them, it's always far more difficult than pressing any other button.

I'm more than happy without clickable sticks. Touching a button on the touchscreen would be preferable in my book.
 
I can't see how anyone could prefer lifting your finger off the left stick to press a fake button on the touchscreen to sprint, instead of clicking the left stick

You have to stop moving so you can move faster. Completely counter-intuitive.
 
Even if they work flawlessly, the problem is that they don't are clickable, like a thumbstick is. It would make ports to the Wii U more difficult, as there's two buttons less compared to the others.

Forgot they're not clickable, you're right that is worrying, especially for ports,
 

Terrell

Member
I can't see how anyone could prefer lifting your finger off the left stick to press a fake button on the touchscreen to sprint, instead of clicking the left stick

You have to stop moving so you can move faster. Completely counter-intuitive.

Or you could use the analog sticks to map running to when the stick is pushed all the way to the edge. Y'know, like they were intended to do by design.
 
PS3 stick clicks happen more often, there's less space for you to press.

In the 6 years I've been playing with the 360, I could probably count the accidental clicks on both hands. You have to apply a decent amount of force to register a L3/R3, and there's a bigger room for error then the Dualshock.

Or you could use the analog sticks to map running to when the stick is pushed all the way to the edge. Y'know, like they were intended to do by design.

That really doesn't work when running =/= sprinting, and sprinting is a limited quantity.
 

LOCK

Member
A racing game where you hang glide in, a snowboard dangling from your feet. You drop down to board down the mountain, weaving in between trees. As an avalanche begins, in the nick of time, you approach a lake at the bottom of the mountain, hop on a jet ski, and blast off to the finish line.

See, awesome right!
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
Or you could use the analog sticks to map running to when the stick is pushed all the way to the edge. Y'know, like they were intended to do by design.

I'd want true analog sticks for that. And like Viewtiful said, no good for games with running as a limited usage. Also, most games you can't run sideways.
 

Terrell

Member
Well, just because I've never used them doesn't mean that there apparently isn't a utility for them, I concede to that.

But with that said, we really can't be all that worried about the supposed lack of click sticks. If it were a problem, why would we already be seeing Metro and Alien Colonial Marines? Especially since Metro uses click sticks for (apparently) ESSENTIAL functions.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
I don't understand some of the 3DS slider hate, it felt like butter to me on both my playthroughs of OoT 3D and SM3DL so I have no apprehension for the UPad sliders at all.

I used to think it was fine but the more I played and the more I wished that WiiU would ditch the slide pads.
I don't like the sand/friction feel you get sometimes when in the heat of gameplay you somehow put too much pressure on the slide pad. Also, it's more slippery on my thumb versus a proper stick, and it seems to have too much resistance for proper aiming in FPSs (I wish they'd still use the Wii Remote's pointer but I fear they won't) like if you have to fight against a rubber band.

Also, I usually smoke quite a bit of cigarettes while playing games and I found out the 3DS's slide pad is more prone to get ash/dust underneath itself and it drives me crazy :p
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The only game I've seen use R3/L3 right is Vanquish, and it used them only a couple of times, for detonating bombs. Otherwise I find the R3/L3 buttons cumbersome, especially when mapped to sprint (which shouldn't be tied to analogue either, as it is usually a limited function), and aim down the sights.

I'm even wary about analogue triggers. In racing games they're fantastic, but I won't use them with shooters, where the analogue input simply adds an ever-so-slight delay/cushion to every shot. I quite disliked the GCN shoulder pads for this reason: they made for poor shooting triggers.

But that's why we have L1/R1 :p.
 
I can't see how anyone could prefer lifting your finger off the left stick to press a fake button on the touchscreen to sprint, instead of clicking the left stick

You have to stop moving so you can move faster. Completely counter-intuitive.

I'd rather deal with that than turning around just to end up zoomed down the scope and killed.

I don't expect you or anyone to agree with me, really.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Gross, L1/R1 FPS players!

*boooooo, hisssssss*

Not that you guys have much of a choice, PS3' triggers are asstastic.

I admit, this is exactly why I do it!

EDIT: Actually, I have no problem with analogue triggers that are very sensitive, as in the moment they sense any input they register the binary function (in this case, a shot). I recall a few GCN titles requiring the pads be pushed all the way down before they'd activate whatever their binary function was, and this was what annoyed me. In the case of the PS3, it's simply because the triggers feel awful.

The 360 controller on the other hand is dope, and proves me wrong.
 

Terrell

Member
The only game I've seen use R3/L3 right is Vanquish, and it used them only a couple of times, for detonating bombs. Otherwise I find the R3/L3 buttons cumbersome, especially when mapped to sprint (which shouldn't be tied to analogue either, as it is usually a limited function), and aim down the sights.

I'm even wary about analogue triggers. In racing games they're fantastic, but I won't use them with shooters, where the analogue input simply adds an ever-so-slight delay/cushion to every shot. I quite disliked the GCN shoulder pads for this reason: they made for poor shooting triggers.

But that's why we have L1/R1 :p.

I take it you don't play FPS games on 360? Because if you do, you've already used an analog trigger to shoot. Or you map it to the left and right bumpers, which seems.... odd to me.

I see what you mean, though. The way that Nintendo does analog triggers would involve a range of analog followed by a button click to note the end of the analog range.

But on the other hand, wouldn't that extra delay exactly mimic pulling a trigger on an actual gun?
 

Glass Joe

Member
I suppose the circle pad as opposed to analogs is a minor aesthetic choice mostly. They want the controller left out on coffee tables for casuals and seeing protruding sticks is less attractive.

I guess I don't know why in theory the circle pads couldn't be clickable though? Just felt around with my 3DS and it doesn't seem like a particularly hard thing to implement if they wanted to.

Not that I think Nintendo would include them anyway. They're not on the nunchuck or classic controller. Heh, I think Nintendo has a habit of stubbornly ignoring anything they didn't innovate themselves, including controller functions.
 
Wave Race will suck without analog triggers. It's the same reason I can't ger super excited about Luigi's Mansion 2. Analog triggers + awesome rumble effects MADE those games (always prefferred Blue Storm to WR64).

This depressing post reminds me...the Wii U controller...does it rumble? Because I can't play Star Fox if my controller doesn't shake telling me how awesome that explosion was
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
One of the things I hate about how shooters have been adapted to consoles is how developers and fans get so worked up if a new controller is missing even ONE button from the "standard" setup, which will somehow make shooters impossible on the platform. I just think that kind of mentality is locking us into too rigid a control paradigm.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I take it you don't play FPS games on 360? Because if you do, you've already used an analog trigger to shoot. Or you map it to the left and right bumpers, which seems.... odd to me.

I see what you mean, though. The way that Nintendo does analog triggers would involve a range of analog followed by a button click to note the end of the analog range.

But on the other hand, wouldn't that extra delay exactly mimic pulling a trigger on an actual gun?

You're right about the 360 triggers (see my edit above), but I don't own a 360, so my experience with the controller is limited. Positive, but limited. So yeah, my dislike for analogue triggers mostly stems from Nintendo's implementation of binary design into analogue hardware.

As for the context of triggers and shooters, the extra delay would be nice if I was meaning to simulate pure realism, and the safety of a mechanical weapon trigger. But 99% of videogames are not designed to simulate this. They're binary functions. You're either shooting or your not, and the game revolves around this. There's no underlying, real world mechanical function where a real trigger would be relevant.

It doesn't matter for the 360 pad, where pretty much all games are mapped to note instant pressure from the triggers to register a game function, and thus is effectively the same thing as a binary input. I just cant imagine playing a game like, say, Vanquish without instantaneous and reliable binary input. But again, this is compounded by how awful the PS3 triggers are.
 

Glass Joe

Member
This depressing post reminds me...the Wii U controller...does it rumble? Because I can't play Star Fox if my controller doesn't shake telling me how awesome that explosion was

It's confirmed to rumble. Has it been said which of the L/R buttons (L1 or L2 and R1 or R2) are analog?
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
One of the things I hate about how shooters have been adapted to consoles is how developers and fans get so worked up if a new controller is missing even ONE button from the "standard" setup, which will somehow make shooters impossible on the platform. I just think that kind of mentality is locking us into too rigid a control paradigm.

That's kind of the idea behind standards.
 
Yea it does

Ah, good. Because I was playing Star Fox 64 a couple years ago without rumble. You know that part where you blow up the big factory on Macbeth and its all BWOOOOOOOOM BWOOOOM BWOOOM BWOOOM BWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, and the N64 controller is doing the Harlem Shake from the awesomeness? Without rumble, it's just...meh.
 

Terrell

Member
You're right about the 360 triggers (see my edit above), but I don't own a 360, so my experience with the controller is limited. Positive, but limited. So yeah, my dislike for analogue triggers mostly stems from Nintendo's implementation of binary design into analogue hardware.

As for the context of triggers and shooters, the extra delay would be nice if I was meaning to simulate pure realism, and the safety of a mechanical weapon trigger. But 99% of videogames are not designed to simulate this. They're binary functions. You're either shooting or your not, and the game revolves around this. There's no underlying, real world mechanical function where a real trigger would be relevant.

It doesn't matter for the 360 pad, where pretty much all games are mapped to note instant pressure from the triggers to register a game function, and thus is effectively the same thing as a binary input. I just cant imagine playing a game like, say, Vanquish without instantaneous and reliable binary input. But again, this is compounded by how awful the PS3 triggers are.

The design works both ways, though, and sometimes you want that binary click at the end depending on the game you're playing. In those instances where you had to achieve the entire range of motion to get the binary click on the analogue shoulders, it's because the software was designed to IGNORE the analog input as binary. So that's just poor software implementation, not a design flaw on the hardware itself.
 

Roo

Member
Ah, good. Because I was playing Star Fox 64 a couple years ago without rumble. You know that part where you blow up the big factory on Macbeth and its all BWOOOOOOOOM BWOOOOM BWOOOM BWOOOM BWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, and the N64 controller is doing the Harlem Shake from the awesomeness? Without rumble, it's just...meh.


Caught before edit >.< lol
yeah, I know how you feel
Playing without rumble is just.. Like you said... meh
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The design works both ways, though, and sometimes you want that binary click at the end depending on the game you're playing. In those instances where you had to achieve the entire range of motion to get the binary click on the analogue shoulders, it's because the software was designed to IGNORE the analog input as binary. So that's just poor software implementation, not a design flaw on the hardware itself.

I don't have a problem with the click, so yes, it is a poor software implementation, not hardware.
 
Sometimes I forget that it was Nintendo that brought us so many of these controller innovations. D-Pads, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, rumble functions, motion controls. They make it first, then everybody else follows the leader on it because it works and people like it.

Who knows, maybe PS4/720 whatever is gonna have a screen in the controller, too.
 
I can't see how anyone could prefer lifting your finger off the left stick to press a fake button on the touchscreen to sprint, instead of clicking the left stick

You have to stop moving so you can move faster. Completely counter-intuitive.

…Because the touch button could be on the right side of the screen or sprint being mapped to a physical button instead?

I personally hate the stupid clicky sticks. I won't miss them if they go.
 

Glass Joe

Member
Sometimes I forget that it was Nintendo that brought us so many of these controller innovations. D-Pads, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, rumble functions, motion controls. They make it first, then everybody else follows the leader on it because it works and people like it.

Who knows, maybe PS4/720 whatever is gonna have a screen in the controller, too.

Not to mention the now standard 4 button diamond layout (SNES), analog triggers (gamecube), reliable wireless (gamecube wavebird), touch screen (ds) and speaker (wii).

EDIT: Didn't the first Xbox have analog triggers? I might be wrong on that one. Actually Terrell just confirmed Dreamcast so I was wrong twice :)

You can pretty much guarantee Sony and Microsoft are at least looking at the screen tech in their R&D departments.
 

watershed

Banned
Has the "gamer card" rumor been discussed? I think its fake. I don't know why Nintendo would add yet another device to the wii u package which would drive up production costs even further.

If they wanted to Nintendo could make a wii u to 3ds communication app so that your 3ds could log "wii u streetpass" info as well then you could send the info to your wii u when you get home.

We already know the upad has some built in memory probably for bringing your upad to friend's houses and stuff. I don't see Nintendo adding this "gamer card" to the package as well.
 

Fredrik

Member
I personally hate the stupid clicky sticks. I won't miss them if they go.
Same here. I also wouldn't mind less buttons or at least functions. I hate going back to a game I haven't played in a while and not know how I'm supposed to control it. :/
Hmm. Another use for the touch screen on WiiU. A simple push on a tiny controller icon shown in all games shows the mapping for the controller buttons and sticks. Awesome.
 
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