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Curt Schilling's "38 Studios" in trouble, skips payroll, bounces check to RI

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B

BriareosGAF

Member
Still waiting on the price drop for this one. Backlog stack too deep to be paying full price for games I can't play for a few months anyway. Really enjoyed the demo, though.

Re: the original article, I'm not familiar with the intimate details of their financing arrangement but situations like these are messy and complex, both for the party making the loan and the one receiving it. With some locales (hello Quebec) so aggressive about incentives and rebates there's a game of regulatory arbitrage at work. I believe Schilling has most of his fortune invested in the company too (hard to verify natch) so it's not like he doesn't have skin in the game.

Hope it all works out, a few friends work there, and not a lot of game industry in RI outside of them.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well they are going to no-show E3, and they haven't shown the game yet.. looks like 38S is on a path to destruction soon. If they are almost out of money "now" the future is bleak. They've eaten up almost 50mil (if I'm reading the reports correctly) in financing and we don't even know how to close to a beta they are.
 
A

AEREC

Member
Kinda sucks they are in trouble...I bought the game on PC at launch... couldn't really get into it. I did appreciate Curt's interaction with the community though.
 
B

Baconsammy

Banned
Foliorum Viridum said:
I heard Amalur was fun but flawed so I'm waiting for Steam sale.

I hope they do alright. Curt seems like a cool guy and that's where RICH GALLUP works, man.
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Waiting for a sale is cool, but what's important to wait for is the patches they keep talking about. The first was supposed to fix the many bugs. The 2nd they said would address the broken difficulty balancing. The fact that we still havent even gotten the bug fix makes me think we'll never get the balance fix.
 
C

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I hope Curt Schilling recovers from this; his passion is obvious, even if that translated into a very safe, generic setting and story for Amalur. He should've started with smaller, cheaper games rather than pouring everything into an MMO and an MMO-ish single-player game.
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Chairman Yang said:
I hope Curt Schilling recovers from this; his passion is obvious, even if that translated into a very safe, generic setting and story for Amalur. He should've started with smaller, cheaper games rather than pouring everything into an MMO and an MMO-ish single-player game.
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Yea starting with something more in the scope of say Torchlight probably would have been better.
 
R

Rhyvven

Neo Member
JacksUsername said:
I hope it's mostly overreaction from the media. My entire commute to work, this was the lead story on he radio (WPRO Providence). People were calling in furious, saying the city and state shouldn't give 38 any more money, and the host is already declaring them dead in the water. They also mentioned 38 removed themselves from showing at E3.

On the other hand, seem like media is jumping the gun and looking to stir up controversy. They had a city council member and the air and the only thing he mentioned was that it started when auditors created a doubtful report. That and the phone call doesn't mean instant death, at least I really hope not.
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As you know (yes I am a resident also)....the Rhode Island media runs amok with any little tidbit of information they can. I am sure Tim White will be following around Senior staff and workers in a little white van fairly soon.
 
M

Micromegas

Member
HadesGigas said:
The demo actually ended up being way buggier than the actual game. Since it was outsourced to a different developer instead of made in house (EA wanted a demo, 38 Studios didn't).
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I guess those kinds of bad decisions are coming back to haunt them. I am really hoping they can pull out of this nosedive, if indeed they are in trouble at all - this is all still rumor and speculation.

Curt is obviously very passionate about what he's doing, and has quite literally put his money where his mouth is, so I wish him the best of luck and hope their MMO comes out and is great and allows 38 Studios to thrive for years to come.

Re: The PS3 version of Amalur - any links to where I might read about the state of the PS3 demo versus retail? I'd gladly give the game a chance if the PS3 is on par with the 360 version. On the flip side, I don't pay full price for inferior product, and I've been burned by EA's pump-n-dump (lack of) support in the past and won't be holding my breath waiting for any PS3 patch that will come along and fix things if it hasn't happened by now. Has it been patched?
 
D

dangeROSS

Member
I liked Kingdoms of Amalur and I thought it'd be neat if they are able to continue the franchise in the future. I actually just sent in an Applicaiton to 38 Studios the other day, I hope things are still going well there.
 
S

Sir Garbageman

Member
I bought Amalur day one. I rarely buy games day one anymore but the obvious passion and enthusiasm behind the project sold me on it.

It's a solid B tier game imo. I agree with the single player MMO complaints, I only ended up tackling maybe 10-20% of the available sidequests when all was said and done, but I enjoyed the world, the lore and especially the combat. Got bout 30 hrs worth of entertainment out of it and I was really looking forward to an improved sequel, hopefully the rumors are over exaggerated and they can stay afloat.
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
dangeROSS said:
I liked Kingdoms of Amalur and I thought it'd be neat if they are able to continue the franchise in the future. I actually just sent in an Applicaiton to 38 Studios the other day, I hope things are still going well there.
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Just heard a couple of (non-public) things...take it with a grain of salt, but yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath just yet.

It's definitely a pickle though, I seem to recall the RI loan agreement having stiff financial penalties if the company didn't staff up to 450+ in fairly short order.

EDIT: Ah, this
 
T

Tallshortman

Member
I'd be mad as hell too if I was a NJ taxpayer. 38 got way too big for it's britches and while I generally enjoyed Amalur, I found myself just rushing through the main quest by the last two zones of the game. No way in hell did they game require $78 mil to make (I doubt the MMO is costing massive amounts since it's early in the dev cycle) given it's low end graphics (played on PC on max settings) and repetitive quests.

I regret buying it for $60, should have been one of those solid $40 games you see on steam.
 
P

Patryn

Member
Tallshortman said:
I'd be mad as hell too if I was a NJ taxpayer. 38 got way too big for it's britches and while I generally enjoyed Amalur, I found myself just rushing through the main quest by the last two zones of the game. No way in hell did they game require $78 mil to make given it's low end graphics (played on PC on max settings) and repetitive quests.

I regret buying it for $60, should have been one of those solid $40 games you see on steam.
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Two things: It was Rhode Island, not New Jersey. Also, the money probably went to the MMO that still hasn't come out, and probably not Reckoning.
 
N

NateDrake

Member
Patryn said:
Two things: It was Rhode Island, not New Jersey. Also, the money probably went to the MMO that still hasn't come out, and probably not Reckoning.
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None of the money should have, or at least not a lot, gone into Reckoning considering that game was developed in Maryland.
 
D

dangeROSS

Member
Crazymoogle said:
Just heard a couple of (non-public) things...take it with a grain of salt, but yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath just yet.

It's definitely a pickle though, I seem to recall the RI loan agreement having stiff financial penalties if the company didn't staff up to 450+ in fairly short order.

EDIT: Ah, this
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Yea, we'll see how things play out. Thanks for that link, interesting stuff. We just had a large medical lab get $291 Million in State funding to move into my town. They have a similar condition that they must create a certain number of jobs here. There has seemingly been mixed reactions to the plan. I guess this is becoming more of a standard practice of states trying to draw in companies.
Here's a link to it:
http://farmington.patch.com/articles/jackson-labs-deal-signed-at-uconn
 
Z

zaxon

Member
I'm still confused about why a guy who earned $100 million as a professional athlete needs so much outside investment to make a video game.

I mean, if you go to the 38 studios web page and click on "people", you mostly get bios of venture capital and corporate executive types. Lines on the page like With their years of experience and impressive leadership skills, we are primed to deliver the premiere Online Entertainment Experience™ just scream business assholes throwing money around expecting to cash in on a lucrative trend they don't actually understand.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
zaxon said:
I'm still confused about why a guy who earned $100 million as a professional athlete needs so much outside investment to make a video game.

I mean, if you go to the 38 studios web page and click on "people", you mostly get bios of venture capital and corporate executive types. Lines on the page like With their years of experience and impressive leadership skills, we are primed to deliver the premiere Online Entertainment Experience™ just scream business assholes throwing money around expecting to cash in on a lucrative trend they don't actually understand.
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You don't understand why he would seek other sources of investment for this? :lol
 
P

Patryn

Member
NateDrake said:
How can the company be in such a bad situation? They only published Reckoning & are developing the MMO. Reckoning was a joint-publishing deal with EA, so they couldn't have spent/lost that much money on the game to force this bad of a situation.
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The MMO, no doubt. Anyone could have seen that was going to be a money-sink with little upside.
 
C

CoachKevin

Member
Don't know if it was mentioned, but here in Boston this topic is getting some airtime on the sports radio stations.

As you would guess the hosts, and most of the callers complaining don't know anything about video game development. Many are just saying they it is despicable and that it is like Curt is stealing money from the people of RI.

Thankfully I live in MA. :)
 
B

BruiserBear

Banned
Patryn said:
The MMO, no doubt. Anyone could have seen that was going to be a money-sink with little upside.
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Yup, but that brilliant governor thought it was worth investing 75 million tax payer dollars into the studio. Now they're probably going to lose 100+ million when it's all said and done.


God damn we've got some stupid fucking people running this country.
 
Z

zaxon

Member
sparky2112 said:
Why use your own when you can use other people's? I mean, were you asking a serious question?
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I guess I just don't understand the appeal of a corporate bloat-beast of a studio that could collapse at an auditor's whim, versus a modest self-financed studio that you'd have complete control over.
 
Rei no Otaku

Rei no Otaku

Member
Just read this as well:

After failing to make a $1.125 million payment to the RIEDC, GoLocalProv has learned that Schilling’s 38 Studios defaulted on May 1. In order to get through an apparent cash-flow shortfall, the company is seeking bridge financing. They have not asked for the state to provide funding, though, according to House Speaker Gordon Fox. The company has, however, looked into using state tax credits to support its finances.
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http://www.golocalprov.com/news/new-38-studios-defaulted-on-1.125-million/

I bought the game day 1, but ended up disappointed in certain actions the studio took. From seeming like they didn't care about the tax payers supporting them to the silence about PS3 trophies and the promised patch.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
lordmrw said:
And somehow I never noticed that the 38 studios building is directly behind where I work even though I've been at the same job for 9 years. Small world.
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Cloaking device. That's where the $75 mil went.

Sounds like it's time to auction the bloody sock.

baseballhall8.jpg
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well shit, 379 employees are going to eat up payroll like a motherfucker.. that's gotta be in the 10-20mil range just in payroll a year. $49mil doesn't go that far with that kind of staff.. and so far they've shown nothing.

They better have something to show soon.
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
You know what, I thought the premise and all the good P.R. Curt did here and in other forums was great..but the lack of game updates, patches etc. and the poorly coded port to the PC version turned off alot of people. Developers much smaller than 38 Studios have been able to patch their game to make improvements and or balance some of the game, but here we are still not one single patch for the game.

I had the 360 and PC version for me and the kids and all three of us thought the game was severly unbalanced and lacked any challenge. It basically became a game that was just way too easy and ultimately the game became broken and you were destroying everything in the game.

While I would never wish bad things to anyone or any company, they certainly lost my and my families support. Had they listened to the fans on their official forums where one of the longest running threads is the "Patch" thread, the fact that no patch has been made is unsettling.

I once thought that 38 Studios was the next CDProjeckt Red or Remedy, but it was all talk and no substance from them. I think Remedy has had 3 patches for their game within the first few weeks, CDProjekt had numerous patches (and free DLC) for their game. Both of these studios are way smaller than 38 and they supported their games.
 
F

FieryBalrog

Member
I'm not really that surprised. It always seemed like Curt was a little overambitious entering a field he had no experience in, which is understandable given the general attitude of a very successful pro baseball player who is passionate about a new project. Instead of starting smaller, like the Torchlight devs, he went straight for the Hellgate London style overreach (the failure of which is precisely what set the philosophy behind Torchlight).

Putting together an expensive 'dream team' with Salvatore and McFarlane... straight for several hundred employees... when I heard their first game was a new IP super lengthy RPG with a name like "Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning", it didn't sound like a good sign. From what I hear it's a perfectly good game, unlike Hellgate: London, though it doesn't seem that commercially successful, but of course there was that MMO too... and a big-budget traditional MMO from a new studio is just silly at this point.
 
A

Aaron

Member
I'm super curious about the MMO though, if it's something really interesting, or another by the numbers WoW clone.
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
The one thing that seems to be swallowing these companies up is the fact that there is too much mismanagement. It's a shame that the guys performing the grunt face an omnipresent death knell for it.

Aaron said:
I'm super curious about the MMO though, if it's something really interesting, or another by the numbers WoW clone.
Click to expand...

My faith in MMOs are pretty dim so I was expecting a WoW clone.
 
P

Patryn

Member
They really should just cut their losses, salvage what assets they can from the MMO, and refocus on the Reckoning series.

I really think there's a place for a third-person action-based version of the Elder Scrolls if they just work on it.

But I don't think they need to bring Todd McFarlane or R.A. Salvatore along. Too expensive.
 
A

Arcteryx

Member
Ouch. Well that fucking sucks. Amalur wasn't my favorite game, but it wasn't horrible either.

I hope they ditch the MMO and stick to SP games. That MMO has to be a HUGE money sink for them.

Also(as pointed out above), ditch some of the big names. They honestly didn't add much(if anything at all) to Amalur. You can design games without RAA and Todd McFarlane.
 
B

B_Rik_Schitthaus

Banned
Patryn said:
They really should just cut their losses, salvage what assets they can from the MMO, and refocus on the Reckoning series.

I really think there's a place for a third-person action-based version of the Elder Scrolls if they just work on it.

But I don't think they need to bring Todd McFarlane or R.A. Salvatore along. Too expensive.
Click to expand...

I could see an ass ton of law suits from that, they tout that Salvatore made thousands of years of law so they pay him for using a lot of that stuff anyway, same with McFarlane and the art style (though that one would be more tenuous).
 
P

Patryn

Member
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
I could see an ass ton of law suits from that, they tout that Salvatore made thousands of years of law so they pay him for using a lot of that stuff anyway, same with McFarlane and the art style (though that one would be more tenuous).
Click to expand...

I'm not saying ditch what they have done. But I'm sure they've been paid for their work thus far, so stop now, and have their own people generate everything else from here on out.

Frankly, though, I'd rather they just change the art style and ditch the McFarlane look. In fact, it was actually something that was putting me off the game.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Ditch the MMO? Yeah.. not going to happen. They didn't sink that 49mil in cash into KoA:R, they sunk that into the MMO.

No games outside of your Halo, CoD, BF, Mario, and Madden's typically are going to make you your 49mil + interest + profit.

The MMO has to release and be successful, or they are done.

There is no other fix, cutting MMO means company goes under.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
NervousXtian said:
Ditch the MMO? Yeah.. not going to happen. They didn't sink that 49mil in cash into KoA:R, they sunk that into the MMO.

No games outside of your Halo, CoD, BF, Mario, and Madden's typically are going to make you your 49mil + interest + profit.

The MMO has to release and be successful, or they are done.

There is no other fix, cutting MMO means company goes under.
Click to expand...

If they go in debt to the state to the tune of $100 million aren't they done anyway?
 
B

B_Rik_Schitthaus

Banned
Patryn said:
I'm not saying ditch what they have done. But I'm sure they've been paid for their work thus far, so stop now, and have their own people generate everything else from here on out.

Frankly, though, I'd rather they just change the art style and ditch the McFarlane look. In fact, it was actually something that was putting me off the game.
Click to expand...

They might still have to pay him royalties (this is how it would work in TV/Film so I might be wrong in thinking its the same for games).
 
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