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[KageMaru]

This is not an easy question; one would think that a customized OoO PowerPC CPU would be a very powerful solution, but I would not understimate the AMD solution either.

I was not asking about anything actually power/performance related or to compare systems that hardly even exist yet. I was merely asking which of the three do you see offering the better tools and dev support?

Edit:

Don't stress it. People come in late and don't read. They see your response and think its unwarranted. There problem not yours.

But you could stop and instead of doing that you could explain something.

Does a system need more ram if it has duel GPU's?

Nah, the dude does have a point. It's one thing to have fun with someone at their expense but I can see it becoming an annoyance. I just have some sort of OCD with logic I guess =p

Also, are you asking if there is more RAM requirements for having multiple GPUs?

 

[Durante]

I was not asking about anything actually power/performance related or to compare systems that hardly even exist yet. I was merely asking which of the three do you see offering the better tools and dev support?

Is that even a question? Ms. It's a main part of their business.

 

[KageMaru]

Is that even a question? Ms. It's a main part of their business.

That was kind of my point in response to the possibility that Sony will have the platform with the easier development environment.

Basically, it's too early to tell anything yet and everything is a possibility.

 

[Durante]

If you were going to characterize AI in any way it's usually that it is *branchy* with *poor memory access patterns*. This is where out-of-order CPUs like modern x86 shine, as opposed to the massive L2 miss penalty on contemporary Power architectures, bad pipeline flush penalty, etc.

When you say "contemporary" here, you mean the stuff they decided to put into consoles 7 years ago, right? Because when I read "contemporary Power architectures" I think Power 7, and what you wrote doesn't really apply in that case.

Basically, it's too early to tell anything yet and everything is a possibility.

I actually can't imagine how it could happen that either Sony or Nintendo will be able to offer tools that are remotely as mature and user-friendly as what MS has. Well, maybe a meteor could hit Redmond tomorrow

Development tools are one of the few areas in which I think even the staunchest critics have to acknowledge that MS truly deserves its success.

 

[JonathanPower]

I was not asking about anything actually power/performance related or to compare systems that hardly even exist yet. I was merely asking which of the three do you see offering the better tools and dev support?

If Sony were to go with an AMD solution for both CPU and GPU, then I am sure AMD would easily provide very good tools for Sony, and maybe this is the reason behind the possible decision of Sony to go with AMD. This way I think that Sony would not be at a disadvantage anymore in comparison with MS.

 

[KageMaru]

I actually can't imagine how it could happen that either Sony or Nintendo will be able to offer tools that are remotely as mature and user-friendly as what MS has. Well, maybe a meteor could hit Redmond tomorrow

Development tools are one of the few areas in which I think even the staunchest critics have to acknowledge that MS truly deserves its success.

Well to be fair, and what I was thinking when making that point, is if by chance MS does create a system with some crippling bottlenecks (too weak GPU) then the great tools will only go so far and another (better designed) system could end up being easier to develop for.

 

[Karak]

Nah, the dude does have a point. It's one thing to have fun with someone at their expense but I can see it becoming an annoyance. I just have some sort of OCD with logic I guess =p

Also, are you asking if there is more RAM requirements for having multiple GPUs?

Well after seeing someone ass up that long, I have no problem with someone spanking them for awhile. But each to their own.

Ya when it comes to that question I was wondering if the duel GPU's make more memory a requirement.

Well to be fair, and what I was thinking when making that point, is if by chance MS does create a system with some crippling bottlenecks (too weak GPU) then the great tools will only go so far and another (better designed) system could end up being easier to develop for.

Totally true but that would also have to have the lead in that people who were using the MS system WANTED to jump to something else. I could see a good number of devs happy as clams with something awesome to program for. Even if something else has more power. This is starting to feel like last gen ha.

 

[JonathanPower]

I actually can't imagine how it could happen that either Sony or Nintendo will be able to offer tools that are remotely as mature and user-friendly as what MS has. Well, maybe a meteor could hit Redmond tomorrow

Development tools are one of the few areas in which I think even the staunchest critics have to acknowledge that MS truly deserves its success.

I can easily see this happening, if it will not be Sony but AMD providing tools for Sony, since the PS4 would basically be an AMD solution.

 

[Durante]

On PC, multi-GPUs need to replicate all the assets in each memory pool, which is very wasteful. On a closed platform this wouldn't necessarily be the case at all, and certainly not to the same extent.

I can easily see this happening, if it will not be Sony but AMD providing tools for Sony, since the PS4 would basically be an AMD solution.

AMD has a few rather nice tools, but not to the extent that it would push them ahead compared to MS.

In fact, of all the hardware vendors, it is Intel that has by far the most depth and breadth in terms of development tools, that could certainly have shaken things up had anyone decided to go with their hardware.

 

[JonathanPower]

AMD has a few rather nice tools, but not to the extent that it would push them ahead compared to MS.

In fact, of all the hardware vendors, it is Intel that has by far the most depth and breadth in terms of development tools, that could certainly have shaken things up had anyone decided to go with their hardware.

In any case, it would be a huge improvement over the uber complicated Cell architecture. With an AMD solution, I don't really think that providing good tools for the PS4 would be a problem anymore for Sony.

 

[Karak]

I actually can't imagine how it could happen that either Sony or Nintendo will be able to offer tools that are remotely as mature and user-friendly as what MS has. Well, maybe a meteor could hit Redmond tomorrow

Development tools are one of the few areas in which I think even the staunchest critics have to acknowledge that MS truly deserves its success.

Even MS's weren't the best at the start. Neither will have 100% fully developed and mature tools on release obviously. But MS has a different outlook on it internally than the others do. Got some excellent information on that with a couple of the tool team interviews and the xbox novel which explained their internal though process on tool creation. And nothing has indicated that changing, either within MS or the others. So ya, I think that's a fair statement that they do deserve that success. It wasn't overnight and it wasn't without major failures though DreamcastCE.

 

[KageMaru]

If Sony were to go with an AMD solution for both CPU and GPU, then I am sure AMD would easily provide very good tools for Sony, and maybe this is the reason behind the possible decision of Sony to go with AMD. This way I think that Sony would not be at a disadvantage anymore in comparison with MS.

I really don't see this happening, but anything is possible.

Well after seeing someone ass up that long, I have no problem with someone spanking them for awhile. But each to their own.

Ya when it comes to that question I was wondering if the duel GPU's make more memory a requirement.

On a PC the framebudder resides in the GPUs memory, which is why you need to duplicate data so the other GPU can it's thing.

Assuming both GPUs have access to the same memory pool on a console, more memory shouldn't really be necessary. I guess if you were rendering 3D at full resolution, the extra memory would help, but mostly with special circumstances.

I can be entirely wrong.

Edit: typing this on my phone while running around at work, so sorry if the wording is kinda weird.

 

[Lord Error]

I actually can't imagine how it could happen that either Sony or Nintendo will be able to offer tools that are remotely as mature and user-friendly as what MS has. Well, maybe a meteor could hit Redmond tomorrow

Development tools are one of the few areas in which I think even the staunchest critics have to acknowledge that MS truly deserves its success.

Tools have matured a lot over the years, and probably won't have to reset/change all that much with next gen. If you look at Sony's first party output, it's clear that they have to be doing something right with their tools and dev environments now, if they can generate such an output. In other words, there may be some difference, but I doubt it matters anymore, in terms of who gets support and on what level. I can't imagine we'd be hearing Gabe Newell saying things about PS4 that he was saying early on about PS3.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I really really wish I understood what you guys are talking about sounds very interesting.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

you need to hit 1080p next gen. all that extra detail and eye candy will be lost if you can't see it at it's highest resolution.

 

[Durante]

Tools have matured a lot over the years, and probably won't have to reset/change all that much with next gen. If you look at Sony's first party output, it's clear that they have to be doing something right with their tools and dev environments now, if they can generate such an output. In other words, there may be some difference, but I doubt it matters anymore, in terms of who gets support and on what level. I can't imagine we'd be hearing Gabe Newell saying things about PS4 that he was saying early on about PS3.

Oh I agree, I'm certain the difference won't be remotely as large as it was at the start of the current gen -- just like I'm sure that MS will still offer the best tool support overall of the big 3.

you need to hit 1080p next gen. all that extra detail and eye candy will be lost if you can't see it at it's highest resolution.

The extra detail and eye candy is there for the PC version

 

[coldfoot]

Oh I agree, I'm certain the difference won't be remotely as large as it was at the start of the current gen -- just like I'm sure that MS will still offer the best tool support overall of the big 3.

PS3 devs also use Visual Studio with Sony's plugins and libraries...with x86 it'd be even easier to provide an environment that's very closed to PC only with directX replaced with the Sony graphics API.

 

[KageMaru]

Tools have matured a lot over the years, and probably won't have to reset/change all that much with next gen. If you look at Sony's first party output, it's clear that they have to be doing something right with their tools and dev environments now, if they can generate such an output. In other words, there may be some difference, but I doubt it matters anymore, in terms of who gets support and on what level. I can't imagine we'd be hearing Gabe Newell saying things about PS4 that he was saying early on about PS3.

Talented teams + huge budgets + time on one platform that most studios have to work on at least 2 platforms = good results no matter what state the tools are in.

 

[Raistlin]

I can easily see this happening, if it will not be Sony but AMD providing tools for Sony, since the PS4 would basically be an AMD solution.

AMD has extensive tools for SW development?

 

[Raistlin]

Doesn't the BD in the PS3 Slim read multi-layered Blu-Rays? I'm sure I read (probably in the thread...) that the only thing preventing Sony utilising this is that the PS3 Fat only supports single layed discs.

lol no it doesn't. It wouldn't work as a BD movie player and several games wouldn't work on it.

Laser requires a different reading algorithm. They can't update it via firmware.

Are you sure about that? I know at least some drives are updatable to multilayer, but I don't know the specifics of what's been used in the various PS3 revisions. It's possible some could work? Not that it matters, there's no need for BDXL on PS3 anyway.

What's the difference ?

I assume he's referring to BDXL (quad layer discs).

 

[jeff_rigby]

Xbox 720: the story so far
Microsoft's next console is already with developers. This is everything we know about it

Only does everything
And Durango most certainly is a media box. Our sources tell us it even has a standard aerial socket in the back - a kind of integrated version of PS3's PlayTV dongle - to give it complete ownership of your TV activities. The Blu-ray drive is a dead cert, we're told, and joins Freeview, Sky and a wealth of on-demand services in being controlled by Kinect.

Complementing AMD's latest CPU in Durango is a member of its current top-flight GPU family, the Radeon HD 7000. This implies the same "Southern Islands" GPU (or thereabouts) as Sony's PS4 reportedly uses; which means the same concerns about how a top-performing GPU today is supposed to compete in over a year's time, and beyond.

This is the first serious report that the Durango might have a X86 and I see little confirming it. There are NO published leaks that we can take seriously about Durango but enough on PS4 to convince even me about PS4 using AMD x86-64 and dropping PS3 Cell....SPUs might still be in PS4 in some fashion.

SimiAccurate is credited with determining that Durango is PPC because Oban is made in the IBM Forge (Dec 2011) so if Oban is Durango then Durango must be PPC. IF Oban is Durango then it shouldn't have full HSA efficiencies (too early). If PS4 is to launch late 2013 then sample quantities to determine yield (Durango too) should be produced soon not Dec of last year for a report to Sony and Microsoft by the beginning of 4th quarter 2012.

I call bullshit, either this article is wrong or SimiAccurate is wrong....which though, there is not enough information about Durango.

My best guess is Oban is not Durango but Durango could be PPC or X86. What is Oban then?

 

[AzaK]

which means the same concerns about how a top-performing GPU today is supposed to compete in over a year's time, and beyond.

What the hell? Beast machines like this are also causing concern about their longevity.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Xbox 720: the story so far
Microsoft's next console is already with developers. This is everything we know about it

This is the first serious report that the Durango might have a X86 and I see little confirming it. There are NO published leaks that we can take seriously about Durango but enough on PS4 to convince even me about PS4 dropping Cell.

SimiAccurate is credited with determining that Durango is PPC because Oban is made in the IBM Forge (Dec 2011) so if Oban is Durango then Durango must be PPC. IF Oban is Durango then it shouldn't have full HSA efficiencies (too early). If PS4 is to launch late 2013 then sample quantities to determine yield (Durango too) should be produced soon not Dec of last year for a report to Sony and Microsoft by the beginning of 4th quarter 2012.

I call bullshit, either this article is wrong or SimiAccurate is wrong....which though, there is not enough information about Durango.

My best guess is Oban is not Durango but Durango could be PPC or X86. What is Oban then?

Oban vs Liverpool? I'm not even sure how to approach this one...PS4 to be more powerful, 720 to be more charming?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Oban vs Liverpool? I'm not even sure how to approach this one...PS4 to be more powerful, 720 to be more charming?

If Durango is X86 then it's specs will be exactly like the PS4. If Durango is Oban and later model PPC then on balance I expect they will still be similar; with PS4, because of HSA efficiencies, having a more powerful GPU but having to use a part of that GPU as CPU which Durango as Oban should not have to do. Durango not being HSA and not using/requiring GPU as CPU might be easier to develop for and might explain the earlier survey where developers thought it easier to program the Durango.

IF Oban is not Durango and Durango is going to have a later generation 16 logical core PPC as well as a Full HSA GPU similar to the PS4 then Durango is going to be a monster compared to PS4 with rumored 8 Jaguar cores.

"I'm not even sure how to approach this one" We really can't determine what's coming for Durango as there is too much mis-information. I had an email conversation confirming PPC family I can not depend on as there were too few details and no answer for the early release of Oban and rumor for Durango supporting Xbox360 Backward Compatibility for only 3 years which implies hardware support (PPC) which should not be needed if Durango is using the PPC family ISA.

 

[DieH@rd]

Can we go back discussing beer?

 

[Karak]

Can we go back discussing beer?

Please yes. I will have two. Stack them up.

 

[bgassassin]

LOL @ the beer posts

Xbox 720: the story so far
Microsoft's next console is already with developers. This is everything we know about it

This is the first serious report that the Durango might have a X86 and I see little confirming it. There are NO published leaks that we can take seriously about Durango but enough on PS4 to convince even me about PS4 using AMD x86-64 and dropping PS3 Cell....SPUs might still be in PS4 in some fashion.

SimiAccurate is credited with determining that Durango is PPC because Oban is made in the IBM Forge (Dec 2011) so if Oban is Durango then Durango must be PPC. IF Oban is Durango then it shouldn't have full HSA efficiencies (too early). If PS4 is to launch late 2013 then sample quantities to determine yield (Durango too) should be produced soon not Dec of last year for a report to Sony and Microsoft by the beginning of 4th quarter 2012.

I call bullshit, either this article is wrong or SimiAccurate is wrong....which though, there is not enough information about Durango.

My best guess is Oban is not Durango but Durango could be PPC or X86. What is Oban then?

We've been speculating that Oban could be for Wii U. There are a decent amount of coincidences between Oban and Wii U.

As for Xbox 3, it seems that compared to PS4 it will have a "better" CPU, more memory, and a "worse" GPU. The question I developed yesterday from the article you linked was how much of that CPU and memory is allocated to the non-gaming functions and OS?

 

[sTeLioSco]

///Sony PlayStation 4 specs///

Codename: "Orbis"

Release: Holiday 2013

Processor:
28nm 64Bit AMD Accelerated Processing Unit based on "Kaveri"
- 4 AMD "Steamroller"-modules, 8 threads
- 512 stream processors
- ~1 TFLOP computing power
- Purpose: GPGPU (Physics, A.I., Animations, ...)

Graphic:
28nm AMD Graphics Processing Unit based on "Pitcairn"
- Graphics Core Next architexture
- 1280 (1D) stream processors
- ~2,5 TFLOP computing power

Memory:
- 4GB shared

Drives:
- 500GB Hard Disk Drive
- BluRay-Drive


///Nintendo Wii U specs///

Codename: "Café"

Release: Holiday 2012

Processor:
40nm IBM 32Bit PowerPC
- 4 IBM "Power7"-cores, 8 threads
- ~200 GFLOP computing power

Graphic:
40nm AMD Graphics Processing Unit based on "Barts"
- VLIW5 architexture
- 1120 (5D) stream processors
- ~2TFLOP computing power

Memory:
- 2GB shared

Drives:
- optical
- no HDD



By: a guest on May 27th, 2012
http://pastebin.com/iwBg8C7R

?

 

[bgassassin]

Why post such an obviously fake thing like that?

 

[sTeLioSco]

Why post such an obviously fake thing like that?

cmon worse posts exist in this speculation thread......

 

[onQ123]

///Sony PlayStation 4 specs///

Codename: "Orbis"

Release: Holiday 2013

Processor:
28nm 64Bit AMD Accelerated Processing Unit based on "Kaveri"
- 4 AMD "Steamroller"-modules, 8 threads
- 512 stream processors
- ~1 TFLOP computing power
- Purpose: GPGPU (Physics, A.I., Animations, ...)

Graphic:
28nm AMD Graphics Processing Unit based on "Pitcairn"
- Graphics Core Next architexture
- 1280 (1D) stream processors
- ~2,5 TFLOP computing power

Memory:
- 4GB shared

Drives:
- 500GB Hard Disk Drive
- BluRay-Drive


///Nintendo Wii U specs///

Codename: "Café"

Release: Holiday 2012

Processor:
40nm IBM 32Bit PowerPC
- 4 IBM "Power7"-cores, 8 threads
- ~200 GFLOP computing power

Graphic:
40nm AMD Graphics Processing Unit based on "Barts"
- VLIW5 architexture
- 1120 (5D) stream processors
- ~2TFLOP computing power

Memory:
- 2GB shared

Drives:
- optical
- no HDD



By: a guest on May 27th, 2012
http://pastebin.com/iwBg8C7R

?

Wii U GPU 2TFLOP ? lol ok

 

[Globox_82]

pastebin is a joke. I posted one fake comment just to see how people fell for that crap. Don't remember the title I put. But it's just silly, anyone can write any crap they pull out of their ass, and somehow people find it legitimate enough to post it on sites like this one. Unreal.

 

[lefantome]

what oban is?

can it be another console?

 

[jeff_rigby]

LOL @ the beer posts

We've been speculating that Oban could be for Wii U. There are a decent amount of coincidences between Oban and Wii U.

As for Xbox 3, it seems that compared to PS4 it will have a "better" CPU, more memory, and a "worse" GPU. The question I developed yesterday from the article you linked was how much of that CPU and memory is allocated to the non-gaming functions and OS?

OBAN Japanese Coin

The idea of the OBAN, a large blank substrate, to produce a large SOC. That makes sense (WiiU and timing) as it's the Japanese Coin.....sigh, then Durango could be full HSA with all the efficiencies even if PPC or X86. Just leaves the rumor of Xbox360 BC for only 3 years supporting Durango is not PPC ISA family and might be AMD X86-64.

"how much of that CPU and memory is allocated to the non-gaming functions and OS?". For sure I don't know but a cite that seemed reasonable was less than 100 meg needed for both GPU and CPU to do Kinect 2 Gesture recognition.

AI technique such as Neural Network(image, handwriting recognition) and Genetic Algorithm(optimization used in planning) basically performs searches in parallel. AI techniques are best implemented in a system with many cores. A 1K nodes Neural Network or a Genetic Algorithm with 1K population size will perform 1K searches in parallel. These algorithms do not need a lot of memory. 100MBytes of memory is should be more than enough. What AI algorithm needs is more processing cores.

Currently, the GPU and CPU does not have a common address space. The algorithm needs to move the memory between the GPU and CPU many times during the execution. The memory swaps make implementation of AI on GPU not very efficient. Once the GPU and CPU share the same memory space, it will be very efficient to implement AI on GPU.

If GPU and CPU share the same memory space in Kaveri, Kaveri will have great impact how software is implemented. AI, Computer Vision and linear programming implemented on GPU will be many times faster than implemented on CPU. There will be alot more AI and Computer Vision application on the laptop.

And this supports Kinect using a GPU rather than CPU only....another point as lots of traditional CPU power is not needed. Prefetch for GPU and branch prediction should be big uses for typical CPUs and X86 does that very well, modern Power 7 too?

If you were going to characterize AI in any way it's usually that it is *branchy* with *poor memory access patterns*. This is where out-of-order CPUs like modern x86 shine.

 

[i-Lo]

cmon worse posts exist in this speculation thread......

Not the point when we already know it to be fake. Why deliberately try to disseminate misinformation?

 

[sTeLioSco]

Not the point when we already know it to be fake. Why deliberately try to disseminate misinformation?

?

i thought it was correct.......

 

[Ashes]

Did you see a 2tf capable gpu on show at the Nintendo booth?

 

[StevieP]

This is the first serious report that the Durango might have a X86 and I see little confirming it. There are NO published leaks that we can take seriously about Durango but enough on PS4 to convince even me about PS4 using AMD x86-64 and dropping PS3 Cell....SPUs might still be in PS4 in some fashion.

I was told some time last year that AMD would take over the console landscape (outside of the Wii U's CPU). I didn't believe this (usually reliable) person until more recently. For what it's worth.

pastebin is a joke. I posted one fake comment just to see how people fell for that crap. Don't remember the title I put. But it's just silly, anyone can write any crap they pull out of their ass, and somehow people find it legitimate enough to post it on sites like this one. Unreal.

That first pastebin post that we all got a glimpse of on GAF was... well way more accurate than it was given credit for, minus the memory on the MS console (and obviously the processor types were guessed on). I'd say it was based on (accurate) info that was in the documentation of that time.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I was told some time last year that AMD would take over the console landscape (outside of the Wii U's CPU). I didn't believe this (usually reliable) person until more recently. For what it's worth.

So when I stated that AMD MUST have at least one Next generation game console supporting X86 Full HSA and of course it had to be successful, as they were "betting the farm", why didn't you second that in some way?

It all fits; the 2011 Cell vision ties us to AMD 2013 and later HSA PCs and more. Why get an Intel PC when everyone will have at least one handheld that can benefit from features offered by HSA Foundation members.

Both Microsoft and Sony next generation game consoles will have Server abilities (always connected to the internet) and standby modes always listening for a call to duty...a reason for the rumored 16 gig SSD flash?


Am I off here SteveP? Still needs to be confirmed for Durango but it's now reached the point that it's no longer wild speculation.

Sony and Microsoft got really really good deals on X86 technology and can't, according to rumors, use it in PCs themselves for 3 years. I wonder if that is limited to the SOC being developed for next generation game consoles or any use of technology in the SOC in a PC that Sony might sell. I'd guess that they can use the SOC in Medical equipment and it gives Sony the advantage they need, no need for a FPGA or Cell SPUs.

 

[Death Dealer]

///Nintendo Wii U specs///

Codename: "Café"

Release: Holiday 2012

Processor:
40nm IBM 32Bit PowerPC
- 4 IBM "Power7"-cores, 8 threads
- ~200 GFLOP computing power

Graphic:
40nm AMD Graphics Processing Unit based on "Barts"
- VLIW5 architexture
- 1120 (5D) stream processors
- ~2TFLOP computing power

Memory:
- 2GB shared

Drives:
- optical
- no HDD

LOL, no.

 

[onQ123]

LOL, no.

there is 1 TFLOP going to the TV & 1 TFLOP going to the controller it all adds up. Believe!

 

[jeff_rigby]

This is the source, an early Draft of the reasoning for Xbox 720 In it, the CPU is not specified and ARM was considered for the CPU, AMD using ARM for security is coincidence.

Too much to post here, 56 pages must SEE!!!!!! Also includes information on what Microsoft thought might be coming from competitors like Sony => Google TV in the PS4 (Microsoft Speculation).

As I said this is early feature list not how it would be accomplished, much of this feature list should be supported by PS4:

USB3
HDMI - Display Port - LVDS W-HDMI
Gigabit eithernet
PCI-E
SATA hard disk
802.11N (WiFi)
ATSC (Over the air Digital TV tuner USA)
HSDPA
WiMAX

EDRAM 32 meg (too low)
4 GIG 128 bit DDR4

Always on low power core

Performance target 8X Xbox 360

The BEST:
•Gaming
•Next Gen TV (full XTV support)
•Physical Media (Blu-ray, CD, DVD)
•Online experiences

•Whole Home DVR:
•Record in the background andserve up to any device in thehousehold

•Remoting Server:
•Stream and play your AAA gamesremotely to any device ****Like Onlive with the Xbox 720 acting like the cloud...sound familiar?

•Designed for your living room:
•Sophisticated, silent, always on, green device

 

[onQ123]

This is the source, an early Draft of the reasoning for Xbox 720 In it, the CPU is not specified and ARM was considered for the CPU, AMD using ARM for security is coincidence.

Too much to post here, 56 pages must SEE!!!!!! Also includes information on what Microsoft thought might be coming from competitors like Sony => Google TV in the PS4 (Microsoft Speculation).

As I said this is early feature list not how it would be accomplished, much of this feature list should be supported by PS4:

USB3
HDMI - Display Port - LVDS W-HDMI
Gigabit eithernet
PCI-E
SATA hard disk
802.11N (WiFi)
ATSC (Over the air Digital TV tuner USA)
HSDPA
WiMAX

EDRAM 32 meg (too low)
4 GIG 128 bit DDR4

Always on low power core

Performance target 8X Xbox 360

The BEST:
•Gaming
•Next Gen TV (full XTV support)
•Physical Media (Blu-ray, CD, DVD)
•Online experiences

•Whole Home DVR:
•Record in the background andserve up to any device in thehousehold

•Remoting Server:
•Stream and play your AAA gamesremotely to any device

•Designed for your living room:
•Sophisticated, silent, always on, green device

nice find

 

[NemesisPrime]

I can easily see this happening, if it will not be Sony but AMD providing tools for Sony, since the PS4 would basically be an AMD solution.

Obviously you are not a developer.

 

[McHuj]

This is the source, an early

This looks legit. I don't like the fact that they are (hopefully were) targeting a $299 launch point with Kinect. 8x improvement would be the ceiling with that launch price.

 

[Ashes]

If it's a hoax, it's one of the most elaborate hoaxes I've seen. Well done jeff_rigby.

 

[onQ123]

I seen some of that Xbox 720 info in different places but never seen the full 56 pages why isn't there a thread for this?

 

[onQ123]

This looks legit. I don't like the fact that they are (hopefully were) targeting a $299 launch point with Kinect. 8x improvement would be the ceiling with that launch price.

it's 8X the Xbox 360 but the games will be 4 - 6 times the 360

 

[Averon]

This is the source, an early Draft of the reasoning for Xbox 720 In it, the CPU is not specified and ARM was considered for the CPU, AMD using ARM for security is coincidence.

Too much to post here, 56 pages must SEE!!!!!! Also includes information on what Microsoft thought might be coming from competitors like Sony => Google TV in the PS4 (Microsoft Speculation).

As I said this is early feature list not how it would be accomplished, much of this feature list should be supported by PS4:

USB3
HDMI - Display Port - LVDS W-HDMI
Gigabit eithernet
PCI-E
SATA hard disk
802.11N (WiFi)
ATSC (Over the air Digital TV tuner USA)
HSDPA
WiMAX

EDRAM 32 meg (too low)
4 GIG 128 bit DDR4

Always on low power core

Performance target 8X Xbox 360

The BEST:
•Gaming
•Next Gen TV (full XTV support)
•Physical Media (Blu-ray, CD, DVD)
•Online experiences

•Whole Home DVR:
•Record in the background andserve up to any device in thehousehold

•Remoting Server:
•Stream and play your AAA gamesremotely to any device ****Like Onlive with the Xbox 720 acting like the cloud...sound familiar?

•Designed for your living room:
•Sophisticated, silent, always on, green device

This deserves its own thread if proven legit.

 

[Brad Grenz]

it's 8X the Xbox 360 but the games will be 4 - 6 times the 360

Yeah, they're talking about an always on whole house DVR/media server with significant resources reserved for background applications and services.

They're also targeting 120 watts, a little more than half what might be expected as the upper limit.

Document also describes an Xbox 361 to launch this year as a low cost device so you can have Xbox in every room of your house. Very much sounds like the Loop that was rumored as a Roku/AppleTV competitor.