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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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I work in the games press in the UK (GameSpot) and know Lauren and many of the folks mentioned here relatively well. I was disgusted to hear what happened in relation to the Eurogamer article this morning, and disagree that it was the right course of action for all concerned to take. But I also think that this story is starting to grow legs and walk further from the truth.

I believe we have a case of gross nativity on her part, but the removal of her information from various websites is an understandable (though ill conceived) defensive reaction to what must be a pretty awful night of internet interest in her, her friends and her past.


*sigh* I mean, come on.
 
Her friendship with a PR person is no different from the rest of the industry. Fact is theres no journalistic integrity in the gaming circle. Whatsoever, its cut throat against anyone who speaks out; silencing people who want to change things; whilst also ignoring the ideas of journalism and integrity.

Even though I'm still only considered a "blogger" by many standards out there, I try to follow as closely as I can to the ethics side of things. I've noticed when I call people that I know out for taking free trips from a company here or there, I get a cold shoulder. It really feels like people don't want their meal ticket to go sour sometimes.

Personally, I don't do ads and I pay for trips everywhere I need to go. I'm going broke (seriously) doing this. I don't expect everyone else to, but at the same time, it needs to be balanced.
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
Okay, I need to address this. I'm not close with any PR people. I'm based well outside London where most events are held. I'm a freelancer who rarely attends any events of this nature (I wasn't at the GMAs, for example) and any code that comes my way is usually from an editor of a site rather than the PR. In some cases, I'll need to contact the PR to ask them to send the code direct to me, but beyond that I don't speak with PRs much at all..

You have to excuse me then. But when you say "I know these people too well" as a reason of not doing an article about it, I think you can see why one would assume that.

At any rate, even if you weren't an example of it, my point that knowing and liking PR people would interfere with your job still stands. And I think many posts in this thread have made that clear.

Quite apart from that, it's not my job to report on this. I'm a freelance writer who writes about games. I'll talk about the industry, but I rarely get into the politics of this stuff because it's something I have little experience with. There are people better-equipped to talk about these things. Not every film reviewer discusses the issues at the heart of Hollywood. Not every music critic will talk about how piracy affects the industry. That's not their role, and they know they're not the right person for the job in those instances. Same goes for me in this one

Well, since you represent a big entity in the gaming media, can you tell me why hasn't anyone of your peers has written about it? So far we've had two excuses: 1) We already talked about it on Twitter & it's bad for hits. 2) It's not my thing. Frankly, not good enough. Game industry stories far less important than this has been written about all over the big sites. And this comes along, one of the biggest stories in the industry this year, one that needs to be written about, needs to be broadcasted to readers all over the gaming media, and nothing on it so far.

I still believe no one is touching it because of the reason highlighted in Rob's article.
 
It's Eurogamer who have come off the worst in my eyes.

ehh. I cant blame them for doing what they did. UK Liable laws are fucked up and any case is going to not be worth it to save the job of a freelance weekly columnist.


They should have stud behind Rob more though. They folded way to quick and went a step to far by asking him to stand down. At the most they should have just edited the story.


This isnt some powerful industry figure. Just some dumb college student who tried using her Media Law and Ethics class knowledge to cover up her questionable behavior without actually thinking about the consequences.

Eurogamer where just scared at even the idea of a liable case against them and did the only thing they could do. Liable cases have been all the rage in the UK recently so its understandable that they dont want anything to do with it.


I still hope she appears soon and makes a statement. She clearly messed up. If she issues a apology for what she has put Rob through then all is forgiven as far as I am concerned.

I dont see that happening though. Sticking by your work even if its clearly wrong and has been proven as such is another problem of game journalism / PR.
 

Dead Man

Member
Reverend Stuart Campbell has a new summary of the saga so far. Its pretty explosive. Stuart was the one who revealed Wainwright's many reviews of Square Enix games, and in the distant past chronicled the Driv3rgate situation with mirrors to all the forum threads. He's done lots and lots of other stuff if you aren't familiar with his work.

The opening to his new article is cutting:

Excellent article. Thanks for the link. It does make most of those involved look like clowns.
 

Dawg

Member
If its PR stuff based around the product (info stuff; promotional cards; boxes - that sort of thing); but 'gifts' beyond this, do you not thing they might have other reasons for sending it?

In which case - is your definition of integrity stronger than the well paid PR staff who with their large but important budgets are choosing to send you free stuff?

Of course you have an idea WHY they send it. It doesn't mean you have to write a nice article just because they're nice to you. It's not like they're saying "Dude, we gave you a nice package and all, but if you write a negative review, you're banned from getting games from us. ever."

I'll admit, maybe we're just in an easier position than the "big american/UK gaming journalists". We also have a editor-in-chief who makes sure everything goes right. He makes sure we can write our own opinion. Sure, you have the occassional publisher that doesn't agree with our score, but he defends our reason for giving that bad score. But, like I said. I live in a 'smaller country' and maybe PR is just better than the bigger countries where a positive score is MORE important than a good review.
 
And your excuses are thin at best.

"I don't know enough about the complex world of games journalism to write about this despite writing articles about games for god knows how many years. I'm a real outsider. Who could possibly make sense of it all... not the dozens of GAF posters who have already sussed it."

Well, I'd hope to bring more to the conversation than simply dredging up someone's past tweets and reposting them out of context.

Never mind that I previously commented about wanting games journalism to improve

You pulled out a quote from a single interview I did some time ago on a blog as a favour for a friend as an example of my current mindset? I actually think in a lot of ways this has been a vintage year for games writing - I've seen amazing work from a lot of writers, long-form feature stuff that's been great to read.

The point I was making there was how difficult it is for new freelancers coming into the market, because as the print market struggles jobs are fewer and further between. It's a tough market for writers who aren't based at or close to the major sites and publishing houses.

I couldn't possibly do something when it actually mattered, it'd be too awkward! my integrity only counts for something when there's nothing on the line, when it gets real I'm just going to sit in the corner and stare at my shoes."

The one thing I can personally say with all confidence is that I am proud of my integrity as a reviewer of games. I'm a very self-critical person, constantly comparing my work to better writers, and reading and learning and trying to improve all the time - which I feel is my job. I want to inform people about games, and hopefully enlighten and entertain them in the process. A lot of people seem to like my work, which is why I'm doing okay at the moment, writing for publications that I'm proud to work with.

This current situation is embarrassing for the industry, and I can understand the desire to apportion blame. I'm just a guy trying to do his best at what he's good at. I'm genuinely sorry if that's not enough for some of you, but equally I'm genuinely not sure what I can add beyond what's already been said. I don't have many dealings with PRs, I've never done consultancy work for a developer, I only know what's been reported here and elsewhere. I mean, even if I did want to write something about this, I'd like to take my time over it, allow it to percolate and so I can judge exactly where I stand.
 

Dead Man

Member
Of course you have an idea WHY they send it. It doesn't mean you have to write a nice article just because they're nice to you. It's not like they're saying "Dude, we gave you a nice package and all, but if you write a negative review, you're banned from getting games from us. ever."

I'll admit, maybe we're just in an easier position than the "big american/UK gaming journalists". We also have a editor-in-chief who makes sure everything goes right. He makes sure we can write our own opinion. Sure, you have the occassional publisher that doesn't agree with our score, but he defends our reason for giving that bad score. But, like I said. I live in a 'smaller country' and maybe PR is just better than the bigger countries where a positive score is MORE important than a good review.

Influence is not always that obvious. That is why journalists have the rules they do.
 

mclem

Member
Here's how you can tell a good journalist from a "video game journalist":

- Their list of credentials involve more than gaming websites and blogs.
- They actually studied journalism.
- ???
- Actually, that's pretty much it.

From:
http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/Marcus_Berkmann_index.htm

To:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Berkmann


That's doin' it right!

(although I note that the 7-10 scale was in full flow back then... and people here might find the final article listed after all the reviews amusing!)
 

tim.mbp

Member
Uh. Is this kind of practice really this widespread and common knowledge? I thought moneyhats were a joke.

Talk about libel.

If that writer is going to throw Colin into this mess, I think he needs a little more evidence to back up his claims besides, trust me.
 

Goldmund

Member
Chris Shilling?

JaRFA.jpg


IsE0m.jpg


[...]
I think this Twitter conversation is the best to come out of Florence and Wainwright's ordeal. The problem isn't the few people willfully misleading their audience, it's this prevalent and general attitude that's too slothful and loath to even consider how individually harmless facts (friends with this guy, liking that game) can be harmfully connected, forming a net enmeshing mostly those maintaining it, gradually getting their past and future tangled up in it, an attitude that is voluntarily oblivious to its destructiveness in favor of comfort and sociability. Corruption is seldom as dangerous as complacency, in both a medium and its audience.
 
Even though I'm still only considered a "blogger" by many standards out there, I try to follow as closely as I can to the ethics side of things. I've noticed when I call people that I know out for taking free trips from a company here or there, I get a cold shoulder. It really feels like people don't want their meal ticket to go sour sometimes.

Personally, I don't do ads and I pay for trips everywhere I need to go. I'm going broke (seriously) doing this. I don't expect everyone else to, but at the same time, it needs to be balanced.

Your site isn't exactly lying about its Nintendo skew, but that doesn't make it biased, only interested. Its still a news feed directly about Nintendo; but that doesn't make it any less journalistic (I've only glanced there so I can't really qualify that myself, just discussing generally) - its just a specific news source (end of the day many of these sites have system specific reporters/editors).

I go on your site, I know its going to be news around Nintendo. Thats very clear; go on IGN you expect a wider base of news/sources/views - what you don't however expect is to be on a publisher affiliated website. Calling them 'bloggers' is probably too fair to them and unfair legitimate bloggers which I suppose would be described as people posting about themselves/information relevant to them - as oppose to targeting an audience

no, I'd say this is still the worst thing about all this

kLHUo.png

Rab and Lauren are actually paid by Doritos to conjure this whole thing up.
MS wish the Halo 4 logo was higher and bigger and Mtn Dew wish they had larger bottles. Doritos are laughing their way to the bank :p
 
Even though I'm still only considered a "blogger" by many standards out there, I try to follow as closely as I can to the ethics side of things. I've noticed when I call people that I know out for taking free trips from a company here or there, I get a cold shoulder. It really feels like people don't want their meal ticket to go sour sometimes.

Personally, I don't do ads and I pay for trips everywhere I need to go. I'm going broke (seriously) doing this. I don't expect everyone else to, but at the same time, it needs to be balanced.

Well. that's partially who you cover. Nintendo is infamous for treating journalists like...you know...journalists, rather than independent unpaid PR machines.
 

Dawg

Member
Influence is not always that obvious. That is why journalists have the rules they do.

I completely understand that. Thing is, sometimes, the actual review copy arrives as a PR gift (in a nice box etc). So, it's kinda hard to completely reject PR gifts, without rejecting actual review copies, required to review the game.
 
You know why journalism has strict ethical rules on "Nothing more expensive than a cup of coffee?" Do you know why those of us with degrees are required to take journalistic ethics classes?

Because leaving it up to the individual person to decide when their integrity is being compromised doesn't work.

Tag quote here, I think.

I think we need a new word for the (majority?) of writers who work on the games publications. I mean, they're clearly not critics - they're doing nothing that resembles film, music of literature criticism - and they're clearly not journalists.

"Product reviewers"? "10-point Scale Monkeys"? "PR Adjuncts"?
 
I am becoming increasingly concerned with how people are throwing around the "I don't consider myself a game journalist, so don't judge me like one" mentality.

When you're actively arguing to sweep something under the wrong, it stops mattering what you think you are, that's not the goddamn point.
 
I completely understand that. Thing is, sometimes, the actual review copy arrives as a PR gift (in a nice box etc). So, it's kinda hard to completely reject PR gifts, without rejecting actual review copies, required to review the game.

Take the game, send the gift box back, explaining your ethics standards.

Simple stuff.
 

Dead Man

Member
I completely understand that. Thing is, sometimes, the actual review copy arrives as a PR gift (in a nice box etc). So, it's kinda hard to completely reject PR gifts, without rejecting actual review copies, required to review the game.

I think you being a bit obtuse there. I haven't seen anyone equating review copies with early access for high scores, or getting swag from pubs.

Take the game, send the gift box back, explaining your ethics standards.

Simple stuff.

Also, this.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
I could have written that Deus Ex review based on the PR material alone.
 
I'll admit, maybe we're just in an easier position than the "big american/UK gaming journalists". We also have a editor-in-chief who makes sure everything goes right. He makes sure we can write our own opinion. Sure, you have the occassional publisher that doesn't agree with our score, but he defends our reason for giving that bad score. But, like I said. I live in a 'smaller country' and maybe PR is just better than the bigger countries where a positive score is MORE important than a good review.

This is what is needed really. I just think that kind of thing needs to be a bit more public.
For example instead of individual sites calling up reps; another company/body does it for a wide number of gaming sites. Ensuring mass pressure on publishers; along with publicly cleared rules (e.g. if your taken out to dinner, make sure its your mate paying for it - and not going on the company's bill) it pretty much creates a much better environment in which to work in.

Even if there isn't corruption or pressures (you seem to indicate your editor can manage the publishers fine for example) it gives power to the news side of the industry and puts out a strong message that there are no background deals/'understandings'.
 

PaulLFC

Member
Take the game, send the gift box back, explaining your ethics standards.

Simple stuff.
Either that, or even easier, take the rest of the gifts and give them away to your readers via competitions or Twitter (if that's allowed, I don't think there would be any problems with it if they are indeed gifts, as then they'd be yours to do with as you wish).
 
No, that's just overgeneralization. By your logic, it is impossible to write a negative review/article if the PR gifts/food/whatever was excellent? Because, we've had plenty negatieve reviews about bad games, even if the PR was good. I remember getting a very cool Brink PR package, but that game was awful. Thus it received an awful review. PR gift was cool, but that's it.

Not impossible, but subconiously misleading
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
This shit happens in every genre of journalism/blogging. I write about the craft beer industry and you wouldn't believe how many offers I get to promo stuff. It's not as bad as the gaming PRs I get, but still, it's not limited to entertainment.

I believe it. But the question is: Is the beer craft/etc./non-gaming industry as hostile to you as the game industry is if you tell the truth/"rock the boat" like Robert has done?
 
Honestly though it should be basic editorial policy to accept NO gifts or trips for any staff. It's just not needed to review a game. The player has no need to know what a cool office they have.
 
Ahh, such a fun/amusing thread

The best part about all the "well I'm not affected" coming from journalists is that you're asking us to believe a billion dollar PR industry is worse at their job then you are at yours...

No one is buying it
 
Calling them 'bloggers' is probably too fair to them and unfair legitimate bloggers which I suppose would be described as people posting about themselves/information relevant to them - as oppose to targeting an audience

Rab and Lauren are actually paid by Doritos to conjure this whole thing up.
MS wish the Halo 4 logo was higher and bigger and Mtn Dew wish they had larger bottles. Doritos are laughing their way to the bank :p

Oh I know. The ones actually making money should be held even more accountable than someone like me, at least that's how I feel. My point was moreso though, when I point bad things out to fellow industry folks, they get all butthurt and ignore me for awhile.

Well. that's partially who you cover. Nintendo is infamous for treating journalists like...you know...journalists, rather than independent unpaid PR machines.

Well I guess the argument could be made for me in particular with that though, with my "connection" to Nintendo. Can't wait for my time in the limelight and have my "career" ruined by the internet. But yes, thankfully most of the people I deal with don't try and bribe a more positive opinion out of me.

In summary: Writers in this industry don't know any better sometimes sadly. Many of them think that it's OK to take a trip there or do X because they're upholding their end by writing "unbiasedly" about said thing. I feel unless it's a normal thing (alcohol (on occasion) and a few snacks while you are shown or play a game) you shouldn't be taking it.
 
I also doubt reviewers even play some games they review, or even finish the games they review as it seems previews and PR for the game almost always align with the final product
 
You have to excuse me then. But when you say "I know these people too well" as a reason of not doing an article about it, I think you can see why one would assume that.

Well, here's the thing: people are talking about writers knowing PRs too well - that they shouldn't be able to write something because of their relationship with the PRs. So why is it suddenly okay for me to write something when I know both parties? There are issues of partiality in play here.

At any rate, even if you weren't an example of it, my point that knowing and liking PR people would interfere with your job still stands.

Potentially. I can honestly say I've never personally encountered a case of a writer letting their relationship with a PR directly inform their prose. A good writer ignores all that.

Well, since you represent a big entity in the gaming media
I don't represent anyone. I'm freelance. I write for people when they ask me to. That's all.

PRs are a part of the entertainment industry - this isn't something that's exclusive to games. Do they pay for writers to go on press trips? Do they give them promo tat? Of course! That's no secret.

It's up to websites and magazines to ensure that nothing affects their integrity. I can honestly say I've never encountered an example of a professional website or magazine bumping up any of my scores, or any of that business. I can only speak about my own experiences. I'll occasionally speak to other writers, but when doing so it's usually about the games themselves rather than the politics of all this.

Anyway, I'm going to have to bow out for now, because I've got to pick up my kid from school and play some more of this game I'm reviewing. Because those are my jobs.
 
I also doubt reviewers even play some games they review, or even finish the games they review as it seems previews and PR for the game almost always align with the final product

I do remember in the wake of EGM closing a few years ago a few of the ex writers talking about there time there and someone talked the times they reviewed games without actually playing them.

It happens. But in EGM's case it was probably just due to laziness and not giving a fuck rather then just writing what PR wants
 
HGxTx.jpg


Looks like we are going to get a followup article, written by Rab and hosted by the fearless Stuart Campbell.

Stuart has already taunted Wainwright to set her legal dogs on him for rehosting the unedited Eurogamer article, so at least we know this time that Rab's content will remain uncensored.

Personally I hope he names names. Lets blow this problem wide open.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
The mere appearence of impropriety is the issue here. Honestly, GAF members shouldn't be the ones explaining this to paid professionals. Google "journalism ethics".
 
And she shouldn't be.

If you're giving a game a pass, then you're in the wrong no matter what. Taking handouts and being proud or happy about it is pretty much despicable as well.

Anyway, I don't get what the whole discussion is about. So, unless he's completely wrong, telling the truth, or telling as you see it, is wrong if it taints someone's public image? I don't know much about PR so I didn't know if there was a legal line drawn - I'm sure it's different in various countries as well. I do watch a lot of stand up comedy so.. I'm used to people telling it as it is.
 
Read these posts from fartofwar.

Post #1
Post #2
Post #3

You are just rationalizing to internally justify that your opinion is incorruptible. It is not. Even at an unconscious level.
Re-quoted so more people see this stuff. Great stuff.

Elliott's posts, in comparison to the thoughts of many in gaming journalism, remind me of the distinction that I felt between graduate school and undergrad. There's a clear separation in terms of intellectual thought between the two.
 
Well, here's the thing: people are talking about writers knowing PRs too well - that they shouldn't be able to write something because of their relationship with the PRs. So why is it suddenly okay for me to write something when I know both parties? There are issues of partiality in play here.



Potentially. I can honestly say I've never personally encountered a case of a writer letting their relationship with a PR directly inform their prose. A good writer ignores all that.

I don't represent anyone. I'm freelance. I write for people when they ask me to. That's all.

PRs are a part of the entertainment industry - this isn't something that's exclusive to games. Do they pay for writers to go on press trips? Do they give them promo tat? Of course! That's no secret.

It's up to websites and magazines to ensure that nothing affects their integrity. I can honestly say I've never encountered an example of a professional website or magazine bumping up any of my scores, or any of that business. I can only speak about my own experiences. I'll occasionally speak to other writers, but when doing so it's usually about the games themselves rather than the politics of all this.

Anyway, I'm going to have to bow out for now, because I've got to pick up my kid from school and play some more of this game I'm reviewing. Because those are my jobs.

Still don't see what any of that has to do with telling people to stop talking about the issue because it makes you feel awkward. The thing about people in your profession circling the wagons and not wanting to talk about it was a big part of the original article. Thats the behaviour people were pointing out in your tweets, they weren't calling you corrupt.
 

bryehn

Member
I believe it. But the question is: Is the beer craft/etc./non-gaming industry as hostile to you as the game industry is if you tell the truth/"rock the boat" like Robert has done?

In the beer industry, writer's tend to earn each other's respect for investigating things or having objective opinions about a beer/brewery that is considered good/popular.

At the same time, the overwhelmingly positive writers and shills that think any craft beer is amazing do tend to get invited to more events/dinners, etc.
 

Dawg

Member
Best idea yet.

Game journos seem to have a lot of excuses when it comes to not accepting free gifts.

Better yet, just buy a copy of the game on the platforms you intend to review it on at release day.

Now you're just being silly. You do realise movie critics (for example) get to watch movies earlier than us normal people and it's free as well?

Do you know why? Because reviews would have no purpose if one would buy a game like skyrim on release and finish the review when most people have completed it. The review would be useless. You have to put in a lot of hours into those games, exactly the reason you get them earlier. That's the biggest reason we get them earlier.

And yes, I know there are exceptions to the rule, like Call Of Duty. (review copy on release). But a game like that is short and can be completed in one day. Multiplayer takes a bit longer, but not that long. It's all the same at one point.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I work in the games press in the UK (GameSpot) and know Lauren and many of the folks mentioned here relatively well. I was disgusted to hear what happened in relation to the Eurogamer article this morning, and disagree that it was the right course of action for all concerned to take. But I also think that this story is starting to grow legs and walk further from the truth.

I believe we have a case of gross nativity on her part, but the removal of her information from various websites is an understandable (though ill conceived) defensive reaction to what must be a pretty awful night of internet interest in her, her friends and her past.

I'm happy that today's actions have forced a lot of the games press over here to reconsider the way they act. Those of us who take the work seriously have a disdain for those who act like spoiled children while working in an industry we are privileged to be part of. But in relation to Lauren's PAST work - I don't believe she was fooling or attempting to fool anyone. Anybody trying to do so wouldn't post about it all on public forums, blogs or twitter. Her deleting of certain information tonight is the work of a worried person - not somebody leading a double life.

Get. the. fuck. outta. here.

Wake up, son.
 
It's up to websites and magazines to ensure that nothing affects their integrity. I can honestly say I've never encountered an example of a professional website or magazine bumping up any of my scores, or any of that business. I can only speak about my own experiences. I'll occasionally speak to other writers, but when doing so it's usually about the games themselves rather than the politics of all this.
Then maybe next time, instead of saying, "...constantly looking back at it is harmful. Move on," and "...it fell apart because of a lack of facts," you'll wise up and just not say anything at all.
 

Patryn

Member
Best idea yet.

Game journos seem to have a lot of excuses when it comes to not accepting free gifts.

The problem is that if that happened, the review wouldn't be out for several days to several weeks after release.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and people will naturally flock to the reviews that will no doubt appear right at release.

In fact, in doing that stuff may actually strengthen the more unscrupulous reviews as they become the basis of the conversation.

Basically, the system is seriously flawed and there are some things you can't entirely get around. It's up to a good critic to figure out where the exact line is, and how best to remain independent and yet still deliver timely and relevant content.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Honestly though it should be basic editorial policy to accept NO gifts or trips for any staff. It's just not needed to review a game. The player has no need to know what a cool office they have.

Those types of articles can be fine... within reason. But the problem with the industry currently (and has been for a long while) is the "IF YOU DON'T 9/10 THIS GAME, WE ARE GOING TO KILL THIS DOG!" (a bad changing of the National Lampoon title) And that problem is further infested with the problem of "oh, you want to cover our game and get early access to it to write about it? That'll be a 9/10 review score at the end of the tunnel, please."

Going to developers offices and asking questions should be done, but it effecting critics review scores shouldn't be. In fact, I feel that having two people (one reviewing the game and hasn't had contact with the publisher/office) and the other being an interview/visitor would solve this issue since 1) bias can't effect the former and 2) the second can take those comments from the reviewer and ask them and make an interview article for the later.

Unfortunately the industry doesn't pay well enough and probably doesn't care about the problem (see why this isn't a bigger issue than it currently is) to where this change won't happen to where "non-bias" won't ever happen.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
The mere appearence of impropriety is the issue here. Honestly, GAF members shouldn't be the ones explaining this to paid professionals. Google "journalism ethics".

But they're not journalists! They're critics! Except when they refer to themselves as journalists! Then it's just a generic term! For.. journalists.
 
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