There's no real problem with him doing adverts for Mountain Dew and Doritos alone, but if they are doing adverts for Halo 4 as well, then it doesn't take a genius to draw some lines.
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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There's no real problem with him doing adverts for Mountain Dew and Doritos alone, but if they are doing adverts for Halo 4 as well, then it doesn't take a genius to draw some lines.
This is a column that appears every Friday where the author talks about developments in the wargaming and simulation PC markets. He just decided to chime in about the current controversy in his weekly column.
This is in no way the "RPS response".
He has a unique style of writing that is extremely "blighty", and in my opinion not funny in the least. He has great info, and I read it every friday as I love sims, but god damn do I hate having to wade through his writing style.
I imagine that he's an English version of a cross between the comic book store guy, a pretentious bearded rivet-counter from the comp.sys.pc.flight-sim Usenet group, and the most annoying guy at the Ren Faire.
Wow, I've never read the Flare Path column and just from this sentence I already want to bury a screwdriver in this guy's neck
The problem is that he is acting like he is not doing any commercials at all. Next time, when he is saying Halo 4 is GOTY, will you believe him? Will you believe him at all?
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Not that it isn't gross, but Keighley has been known far more for being a host than a reviewer for a while now.
Doesn't make it good, but that picture would be far more concerning if someone like Gerstmann was the one sitting down.
Doesn't make it good, but that picture would be far more concerning if someone like Gerstmann was the one sitting down.
Different folks different strokes. Reading the guy just makes me want to invite him to a round of beers.
linko9
Member
Love that Ryan Shoemaker
Obvious mistake but I reacted as well, fun times. =)
Jim Sterling weighs in: http://www.gamefront.com/critics-in-the-headlights/
Now this is an article on the situation I fully appreciate. From Sterling of all people. Sometimes shills masquerade as journalists, sometimes journalists masquerade as fools.
What a world, what a world.
Clap clap
Good article!
I especially liked the last couple of lines:
I feel this sums it up pretty nicely.
grimshawish
Banned
Well written and a lot of good points. Although personally I think theres a bit of naivety over some things he points out; but then hes pretty experienced. Still, I think things 'look bad' because they know the PR are doing things for a reason. Am not saying their corrupting jornos so much as 'fighting for their attention'; if everyone said 'no' - it would stop, simple as that. Refuse the gifts, helicopter rides - whatever. Just. Say. No.
Lots of discussions about how 'it looks' but tbh I think it can go beyond that into 'what it is were actually looking at'. As I've said before, these things are there for a reason.
Also its fine to be a blogger as I mentioned before, but I think everyone would like some places they can view as journalistic within the games industry; and that everyone has some sense of integrity at some level (am talking more about not suing someone for libel here). I've no problem with, as he says - the blogger side of things, the sort of semi-PR/personal/gossipy stuff - but it should be clear which is which.
Maybe gamers don't help. They need that 'oh this is a REAL SITE' sort of bullshit over what it is - a gossipy, fun, personality filled (which is awesome and fits into what TotalBiscuits was saying about personalities) - we just need to draw back the bullshit. Underneath all this lies review scores - Kotaku for all their shittiness at least accept their gossipyness and give 'Buy' or 'Don't Buy' answers; leaving it up to the reader to base it on whether it floats their boat or not if Kotaku say 'buy'.
Anyways, really good of Sterling to talk about this and discuss his thoughts.
This is just it in a nutshell. Hats off, Sterling has taken everything and pointed out the real issues here.
Although do remember we've had a few comments from people who having talked to the entertainment bloggers about their activities have been given the cold shoulder. So its not all sunshine and roses.
Not at all. It's interesting that your defense is to dismiss the notion that influence works in subtle ways that we aren't always aware of (as opposed to the popular notion of blatant bribery and "money hats") as generalization, and then use as your argument the assumption that any PR interaction at all would have to guarantee a good review if in fact the psychological research was right. That is gross generalization... or you just aren't getting the argument. I can't offer a crash course on the topic at the moment as I'm at work, so instead imagine it from the "appearance of impropriety" angle.
You're publishing a review. Pretend you're willing to include a sidebar with the subhead "Things that can have no influence at all on my perspective." In this sidebar are photos of you sharing single malt Scotch and haute cuisine with PR people. There are photos of the array of tchotchkes you received at the assorted press events for the title that you attended. There are also photos taken from your night out with your hosts. Despite your confidence in you being the rare exception to rules about human behavior, how likely is your audience to come to the same conclusion?
Not bad. Doesn't address the press/PR relationship (beyond a safe "barely any corruption going on"). But the take on owning up to what you did, who you are, etc, is respectable. Kind of a long piece to say so little but whatever. Good read.
Cool, finally.
NoirVisage
Banned
No they aren't. They aren't as one-sided as you seem to think. No one forced Eurogamer to cave so easily. That's on them.
edit: jesus
The last tweet exemplifies exactly what Rab was talking about. What a goddamn pussy.
you're wrong, Rab Florence's piece was very harmful to eurogamer, you DO NOT NAMES NAMES on assumptions, the dude telling folks to move on is 100% correct, all Florence did was cause a lot of internet drama with very poor proof. and an ending that killed the whole point of the article..Why are we studying Geoff Keighly's image?
i'm ALL for exposing gaming journalism when its at its worse (most of time it seems) but this was not the piece to do that, good for gaf, but bad for the site, blows myy mind people are seeing this as Eurogamer "caving" they have a duty to print the TRUTH, they're not a smear rag.
Publically accessible twitter profiles and feeds aren't assumptions. And if anything, self-reflection and investigation by the journalists themselves are good things that all game journalists should strive for instead of this incestuous relationship we are seeing.
NoirVisage
Banned
Publically accessible twitter profiles and feeds aren't assumptions.
and what is this proof that was uncovered from all of that? this airtight condemnation that warrants a person being named in an article without their knowledge or an opportunity to defend themselves?
Proof for what?
Awesome follow up piece. And while I respect his effort to divert anger towards PR and away from Lauren, I think she deserves every bit of vitriol aimed her way for being a complicit tool of the system and throwing him under the bus in her efforts to pull herself out of the muck she created. 'Apology accepted' still pisses me off.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Oh NoirVisage
That that one girl is getting paid to say pretty things by SE and you can't trust her opinion. Also, that some people who call themselves journalists don't see anything bad with that.
AHappyPanda
Member
Is this real? She had all day to defend herself. Instead, she LIED and then tried to coverup said lies.
Rab's right. The focus should move away from Lauren Wainwright and what happened yesterday. It was completely wrong and the criticism of her actions was completely justified, but there's not much more that can be said about it. It's moved beyond that, it's time to look at the wider issue. As he said, issues such as the role of PR people and their potential interference with games writing.
28 Posts Later
Member
I think it'd be best you go re-read the original article again. Florence didn't accuse anyone [that he named] of corruption, in fact he went out of his way to explain it likely isn't the case. He merely pointed out unfortunate evidence that could lead to a very common assumption from some public comments / images the named had posted on Twitter.
NoirVisage
Banned
this dude is a drama queen, defend him all you want though.Rab Florence said:
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Did his article cut too close to the bone?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
You..have no idea what's going on around you do you..
I wish people saying something this stupid was a rare occurence rather than sadly inevitable
-- They weren't assumptions, Lauren had this info out in the open before she realized she needed to start hiding the evidence.
-- But hey, defend her all you want though.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Uh, you can totally name names on publicly available information, especially if your point is that it exudes an air of impropriety even while explicitly saying there is probably nothing going on.
Proof that she gave Tomb Raider a higher score because she used to work for Square Enix.
Quote
Member
I want to spoon feed you while making airplane noises with my mouth.
NoirVisage
Banned
i do, much more than you.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Question is, why are you trying so hard to defend Wainwright? Have you read the thread at all or just coming in thinking you know the whole story?
He a drama queen? What the fuck are you even on about?
SolidSnakex
Member
I think that he's just worried that if the focus remains on her then people may ignore that this is a much bigger problem. There's no way that she's the only one doing that. And some of the response that he's received over this issue shows that.
I know! He's so cute in his ignorance.
Good clarification. It's still too bad that the system in itself is so intrinsically rotten to its core that even the journalists themselves adopt the rhetoric, values and strategies of what PR people want to steer it into.
chickdigger802
Banned
Man. That follow up piece hits hard.
Really curious about the long term conciquences of this whole shit hole.
Really curious about the long term conciquences of this whole shit hole.
funkystudent
Member
Rob didnt mention that though.
He only talked about that it was a bit silly that herself and others in the press where hashtagging some PR company on twitter to win a free PS3.
The Square enix review stuff was stuff the internet dug up after the fact.
Tim Stone?
Nah, he's just a leftover from when everyone thought pc gaming was going to be about Flight and Tank Sims
That's just it, there won't be any consequences of this incident and that imo is the saddest thing of all...
Good post. It fucking saddens me that this guy is without a job for a noble message, that will go without being heard by the people who should listen to it. At this point gaming PR's power & influence on the system is WAAAAY too strong. And the fact that no major website is talking about this story or this matter in a serious way is a pretty telling evidence.
Ok Proof that she is promoting Tomb Raider on her Twitter in exchange for something form the SquareEnix PR team.
He even says "I"m sure she isn't" ... then why even post, if he is sure she is not guilty then why call her out? Obviously he does think she is guilty of this. That was a blatant contradiction in his article.
NoirVisage
Banned
not defending her, couldn't care less about her, i'm calling him on naming names when he had no reason to in the article he was told to write, then continuing his attention seeking ways in a follow.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
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