CambriaRising
Member
Wow just look at all the press kit stuff this person has sold. What a piece of shit.
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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Wow just look at all the press kit stuff this person has sold. What a piece of shit.
What's the word for this? Complacency?
JonathanEx
Member
This may be a shock to some people but there isn't one giant journalism bible of what is right ethically and what's the best practice of journalism and how it should done. While some things are more widely accepted than others, but there's not one standard.
Most don't, so it's sort of pointless to try to hold them up to some sort of standard.
As I'm sure this thread has taught us all, not everyone in this field has the same ethics. I would think it's pretty obvious that a reporter shouldn't be advertising a game on Twitter to win a PS3, but hey!
Wow, it's nice to hear this explanation from someone who had experienced that stuff. It sounds like the media outlets are kinda held hostages, forced to play by the PR's rules or miss out on some new info. I wish everyone did what you said on your second-to-last paragraph, not sucking on everything the companies want you to. Show some independence, and maybe they'll gain some respect back from gamers.
RedNumberFive
Banned
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
It's like you guys don't even try. Enough excuses for the unprofessional behavior. You're better than that.
What a fucking disgrace this whole thing has been. It's like a Greek tragedy.
As it should be. I'm not expecting opinion pieces, since we'll get more than enough of those from bloggers and forum posters. Just some basic acknowledgement that this happened and is happening (and perhaps some acknowledgement of the current state of ethical standards in the industry with respect to PR).
SolidSnakex
Member
VeryGooster
Banned
Interesting that Jason Schreier is, at least going by that image, seemingly okay with this laughing off the questioning of all of this, since he wrote an editorial asking why is it developers/PR don't open their mouths more about games earlier during the summer.
CambriaRising
Member
Listen, as I have told you before; I think you write great columns wherever they may end up (Joystiq, kotaku, etc) but there was a better way for you to respond to the topic at hand on twitter than just shoving it off as a joke. This is an important issue in the industry when it basically dictates how press conveys game information to their readers. If I wanted to just be sold something, I would watch a trailer, not read an article. This won't impact the way I read and enjoy your stories, but it definitely makes me wonder if you care that the industry is a wreck around you.
I can't wait to hear Giantbomb's ACIII review.
Someone did in the comments in here.
I can hear them now: "But... But... But... we're not journalists!"
Said it before, and I'll say it again. It's one thing for us readers to say they're not journalists, but it's another thing altogether for them to say it about themselves. When we say it, we're simply reminding ourselves of the relative unimportance of games in the world at large. But when they say it, it's an excuse that absolves them of any ethical standards or responsibilities.
$2,000 out of 10!
There is absolutely no way that shit like this doesn't influence someone's decision. In the back of your mind will be a voice saying, if i give it a good score, they'll send me more stuff!
That is one way to put it....
Articles
Wings over Sealand articles (second article has summary) 1 2
John Walker's (Rock Paper Shotgun) blog
GAF posts etc
Shawn Elliot 1 (aegies is Arthur Gies of polygon.com) 2 3 4
Jeff Green
ShockingAlberto
Jason Schreier (Kotaku)
N'Gai Croal initial reaction on Twitter
Wings over Sealand articles (second article has summary) 1 2
John Walker's (Rock Paper Shotgun) blog
GAF posts etc
Shawn Elliot 1 (aegies is Arthur Gies of polygon.com) 2 3 4
Jeff Green
ShockingAlberto
Jason Schreier (Kotaku)
N'Gai Croal initial reaction on Twitter
One more reason to try to unify your behavior and not let it rest on an individual decision on how to act properly in your professional relations.
Ok, just wanted to make sure he was aware that plenty of people are pretty disgusted by the whole thing. It'd be a shame if he was feeling completely isolated.
I mean I assume he reads GAF, but who knows, this place isn't healthy for your brain.
RedNumberFive
Banned
As I said earlier. Those press kits aren't any different than sending a wad of money with the review copy.
JonathanEx
Member
I wasn't excusing any behaviour. Merely trying to emphasis that there's no black or white 'right' answer in ethics, or journalism in general.
That is the guidelines of one code of ethics. For one group. Yes - voluntarily followed by many. I said that there may be some practices where there's fairly wide agreement on it, non?
Look in the UK. We have different ethical code of conducts for broadcast and then for the press in general. If there was one-size-fits-all world view, that wouldn't happen.
Do gamers really care? I mean, most gamers don't follow the industry closely and will have no idea about any of this happened. There is a reason so many get their news from people like Hannity/Maddow rather than a more neutral source.
I think that's a fair point! But Twitter arguments are never a good idea. For now, I've posted some of my thoughts here in this thread, and really, my opinions pretty much echo what John Walker has so eloquently written (as I told him privately the other day) - http://botherer.org/
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You can't say "People don't wanna read about it" and then feign like nobody's interested in it when you're trying to engage GAF readers in extended discussion on the topic on it's 66th page.
It's a pretty safe bet Kotaku has published stories that spun directly out of GAF threads with way lower page counts, almost equally as safe as the idea Kotaku (and other game sites) typically use GAF as a barometer for interest in stories.
ZanzibarBreeze
Member
It says right there in the press kit, "Thank you for igniting unprecedented consumer interest in Assassin's Creed III, which is sure to break plenty of sales records this holiday."
That's good times!
To give an example of a game journalist from Eurogamer who does seem to consider this an important debate:
http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/
http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/
I always found a wad of cash in a plain vanilla envelope to be a lot more dignified.
Shameless.
Report it and let them decide if they care or not.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Again with the excuses.
It is absolutely black and white. You either have good ethics and don't participate in activities that cause a conflict of interest, or you don't. These extremely basic principles don't disappear when crossing borders.
I'm not going to write about you personally but I find there is a statistical anomaly, that seemingly nobody is interested in it or feels compelled to write about it.
Kotaku, GameSpot, IGN & <insert list big video game site here> all seem to not have any issue whatsoever of re-writing press releases they get sent to them every single day.
I'm going to assume that this is not the most fun one can have as a writer but it's being done every day all year long.
Also we know that a lot of writers for the above sites read NeoGAF (let's just count the ones that actively respond here and follow the @NeoGAFNewThread twitter account)
Isn't it strange that this topic is not being posted about on the well-frequented video game sites?
It's one of the most viewed threads on this forum.
Even if you take the position that your readers wouldn't care. Isn't the point of a critic to inform the public?
SolidSnakex
Member
I'm genuinely amazed at how nice press kits always look. THAT'S what people want to pay $150 for. Instead we continue to end up with half assed statues and other cheap things that they decide to throw in.
Wonder if N'Gai Croal thinks the Ubisoft guy is a conspiracy theorist too
Gotta pick and choose. Stupid story unrelated to video games? Brian Ashcraft's got it! Story about how gaming journalism heavily and awkwardly overlaps with PR? "Readers don't care, stupid!"
CambriaRising
Member
Its the Templars, bro.
JonathanEx
Member
For someone who's insistent on ethics, claiming I'm making excuses when you have no idea what my views are on the actual actions being discussed is fair?
Now find me the universal guide to what constitutes a conflict of interest. I'm not trying to defend any specific actions that someone has taken, but as Jason said, some see things differently - even the small ones
GillianSeed79
Member
While I agree that's unfair to dismiss all game journalists as corrupt, personal limits actually aren't a big part of being a reporter. The reason is because your employer should be setting those limits, not individual reporters. Your limits shouldn't be tested because they should be there in black and white for every reporter. Things like the no to press junkets policy is a good start. For lunch or food there should be a policy like a $10 gift policy just so that there is no confusion. If it's a case where it's like, oh, hey, we've got some subs and chips if you guys are hungry then it's not that big of a deal. The problem is the hypothetical, oh by the way guys we've got steaks, champagne and lobster for everyone. That's a big no, no. I don't think it's wrong to go out to eat with someone in PR or somone you are interviewing, but you should never accept the person's offer to pay your bill. It's small, simple stuff like that goes a long way.
A lot of these universal rules are present in other fields of more traditional journalism. One problem I see with games journalism is that there are no universal ground rules for everyone. So while you might be fighting the good fight and refusing the lobster and champagne banquet or the free PR swag, there are 10 other "game journalists/bloggers" who just don't give a shit and give everyone else a bad name. They should be the outliers, not the accepted norm.
And when something like this does happen in Eurogamer's case, where the shadier side of the industry is exposed, it should be reported on by everyone instead of just sweeping it under the rug.
Nailed it.
The "our readers won't care" line rings false to me. More like "oh shit! we're not touching this!"
So far we've had:
2 who said: I'm not a journalist, so I'm not going to write about it.
2 who said: Our readers are not interested.
1 who said: It's not up to me to write about it. I'll let someone else handle it.
1 who said: I like writing about games not game journalists.
I think it's pretty clear that big gamin media writers are full of excuses, and don't care about this subject and just want it to die. One can only asks why.
Clockblockers
Member
Is there any way these can get put into the OP?
These are some interesting reads.......
It would be interesting put this comment next to the one you made about press treating gamers with certain contempt.
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