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Media Create Sales: Week 43, 2012 (Oct 22 - Oct 28)

test_account

XP-39C²
A game that sells 100k units is not exactly a mainstream game. Maybe it's not even a niche game... The definition may be blurry, but surely it tends more the latter extreme. Then there exist games that can succeed with 10k units sold that really rely upon a core group of fans, like shoot'em up on 360 (do they sell anymore?).
Yeah, theres inst really a key answer to what exactly niche is, so it can be a bit subjective if a game is niche or not.

The two Death Smiles games sold over 25k each. But other than that, i think most of them are somewhere around 10k, yeah.


Ragnarok DS was not an hunting action. In fact, it was a MMO-like, basically an offline version of the original one (it had online multiplayer, though). And secondly, Odyssey came out when Vita didn't have any game of sort after the launch line-up and sold exactly as the typically game in that period (e.g. Samurai Warriors Chronicles on 3DS).
Yeah, i think that might be a main reason why it sold better, since it has the Monster Hunter elements to it. Being a launch window game might not have hurt the sales either, i agree with that, but the game seems to have sold a fair amount outside of the launch window too.



Falcom shown interest on 3DS, and it's developing on PS3. Nippon Ichi is on PS3 as well, and outside Disgaea I don't see them bringing other stuffs on Vita (didn't their last game flop on it?). Kadokawa? Irem? FuRyu? Etc.
I dont think it necessarily means that their abandoning the Vita, but we'll see =)

Nippon Ichi' last game was a visual novel with no tie-in, and got very little to none adverticing as far as i know. It probably end up selling like similar games regardless of what platform they're on.

Kadokawa has Demon Gaze coming to Vita. I dont know about the others.



It may happen, instead, when there are software house that surely cannot develop for each platform in the market. Dead platforms are not something you can rely on a lot.
Sure. Several platforms but NOT the one dying.
It all comes down to what they feel is the best business decition. Someone decided to support the Xbox 360 for example.
 
Yeah, theres inst really a key answer to what exactly niche is, so it can be a bit subjective if a game is niche or not.

The two Death Smiles games sold over 25k each. But other than that, i think most of them are somewhere around 10k, yeah.

Yeah, i think that might be a main reason why it sold better, since it has the Monster Hunter elements to it. Being a launch window game might not have hurt the sales either, i agree with that, but the game seems to have sold a fair amount outside of the launch window too.

That's my point ;) games in the launch window tend to have better legs because usually in the first period the line-up is poor, so sales are somehow upwards biased. You can see from Samurai Warriors Chronicles on 3DS: the first one is at 150k, the second one (released a month ago or so), is barely crossing the 50k mark.

I dont think it necessarily means that their abandoning the Vita, but we'll see =)

Surely they're not loving it either, given their really poor effort on it. But that's true also from bigger software houses.

Nippon Ichi' last game was a visual novel with no tie-in, and got very little to none adverticing as far as i know. It probably end up selling like similar games regardless of what platform they're on.

Oh, yeah, I forgot that N1 games flopped also on PSP, outside the Disgaea franchise. Surely it's not helping.

Kadokawa has Demon Gaze coming to Vita. I dont know about the others.

That's what you call a nice effort...

It all comes down to what they feel is the best business decition. Someone decided to support the Xbox 360 for example.

The best business decision rarely includes to invest on a dead horse as Vita. Supporting made some sense because of a. Western market, b. niche built on the console during the first year, c. porting to PS3 eventually. Maybe it's better looking at GC or DC and the third party effort on it.
 

Takao

Banned
Furyu, Kadokawa, and Irem's successor (Granzella) all have stuff that's yet to be released for Vita. I'm not sure why you'd even mention Irem itself. They're a pachinko/pachislot company now. Niche developers aren't running away from Vita, and using Gungho making a 3DS game as an example is a little weird.

NIS was also pretty happy with Disgaea 3 Returns. Their TV Reporter visual novel wouldn't have sold any better anywhere. It was a new IP in an incredibly niche genre, and yet IIRC it actually had a higher first week than the individual Time Travelers SKUs, lol.
 
Furyu, Kadokawa, and Irem's successor (Granzella) all have stuff that's yet to be released for Vita. I'm not sure why you'd even mention Irem itself. They're a pachinko/pachislot company now. Niche developers aren't running away from Vita, and using Gungho making a 3DS game as an example is a little weird.

NIS was also pretty happy with Disgaea 3 Returns. Their TV Reporter visual novel wouldn't have sold any better anywhere. It was a new IP in an incredibly niche genre, and yet IIRC it actually had a higher first week than the individual Time Travelers SKUs, lol.

Irem is still publishing pachinko games on 3DS and PSP. By the way, Gungho on 3DS, Falcom on PS3 (and probably soon on 3DS) and basically many software house missing do give the idea that they're avoiding Vita.

As for NIS, yes, Disgaea still sells (as I said). If the other games don't sell good anywhere else, I don't see why Vita should be more appropriate (their last game debuted with 6,515 on Vita, and no, it's not higher the Time Travellers invidual SKU).
 

test_account

XP-39C²
That's my point ;) games in the launch window tend to have better legs because usually in the first period the line-up is poor, so sales are somehow upwards biased. You can see from Samurai Warriors Chronicles on 3DS: the first one is at 150k, the second one (released a month ago or so), is barely crossing the 50k mark.
I see your point. I still think it comes a lot down to the game itself though. I'm not sure about the Samurai Warriors games for the 3DS. Maybe the 2nd one wasnt as good or interesting as the first one, but i have no idea. But we'll see if there is a Ragnarok Odyssey 2 for the Vita, and that the game is recieved well regarding reviews.


Surely they're not loving it either, given their really poor effort on it. But that's true also from bigger software houses.
That might be, but this doesnt necessarily mean that they're avoiding it completely.


Oh, yeah, I forgot that N1 games flopped also on PSP, outside the Disgaea franchise. Surely it's not helping.
Yep, many of their games sold in the 10k range on the PSP. They kept on releasing many games despite of this, so i guess it was profitable in general.


That's what you call a nice effort...
Demon Gaze is actually one of the best examples to this point :) This is a very niche game and Vita is the chosen platform.


The best business decision rarely includes to invest on a dead horse as Vita. Supporting made some sense because of a. Western market, b. niche built on the console during the first year, c. porting to PS3 eventually. Maybe it's better looking at GC or DC and the third party effort on it.
The only way to know if a system is a good business decition is to try, to see if you can find a good audience there. We'll see what the publishers will do in the long run.
 

Takao

Banned
Irem is still publishing pachinko games on 3DS and PSP. By the way, Gungho on 3DS, Falcom on PS3 (and probably soon on 3DS) and basically many software house missing do give the idea that they're avoiding Vita.

Falcom is not done with Vita, and neither is Gungho. Okay? Alright. Kondo (Falcom's president) has publicly said as much, and Gungho has publicly hinted as such. Them having a presence on other platforms doesn't negate the ability to make games on Vita.

Also, for Falcom on 3DS, it sounded like it wouldn't be Falcom directly making the games but rather them licensing their IP to a third party ala Zero No Kiseki Evolution. Bringing that up, is again weird.

Well actually we have no real way of knowing this considering how many games have probably been cancelled we never heard about.

This is true, but I kind of doubt electroplankton has a list of canceled Japanese Vita games handy. The only one who has publicly canceled games is Cave, and that may have more to do with their financial situation than Vita's ability to sell niche games.
 
If 10k-100k niche games will sell that much on any platform, wouldn't it make more sense to target the platform that is selling well (chance of selling extra copies due to the bigger userbase) and the tame specs can translate to lower budgets? Its not like the 3DS is allergic towards niche games. Many have sold well.

This is not the Wii/360 situation where the systems specs (power/online) kinda dictated where those otaku games would go.
 

Takao

Banned
If 10k-100k niche games will sell that much on any platform, wouldn't it make more sense to target the platform that is selling well (chance of selling extra copies due to the bigger userbase) and the tame specs can translate to lower budgets? Its not like the 3DS is allergic towards niche games. Many have sold well.

This is not the Wii/360 situation where the systems specs (power/online) kinda dictated where those otaku games would go.

"Sony provides the most support for creating games for a worldwide market. We are able to provide games for the U.S. and Europe with little stress with Sony."

Vita's hardware being similar to mobile tech, and supporting a tonne of development aids helps the situation greatly. Also, Vita to 3DS is pretty akin to 360 to Wii in terms of online, and visuals ...
 
My god, I didn't want to make Takao et al. so angry :) preliminary remarks: the fact that a debate over the ability of Vita to sell even niche games is really eloquent by itself. That platform is a dead horse, and I just checked the list of 360 games in its first year for reference, and I discovered how that was a more lively environment for third parties, lol.

If 10k-100k niche games will sell that much on any platform, wouldn't it make more sense to target the platform that is selling well (chance of selling extra copies due to the bigger userbase) and the tame specs can translate to lower budgets? Its not like the 3DS is allergic towards niche games. Many have sold well.

This is not the Wii/360 situation where the systems specs (power/online) kinda dictated where those otaku games would go.

Also: it's cheaper to develop on 3DS than on Vita.

Falcom is not done with Vita, and neither is Gungho. Okay? Alright. Kondo (Falcom's president) has publicly said as much, and Gungho has publicly hinted as such. Them having a presence on other platforms doesn't negate the ability to make games on Vita.

Also, for Falcom on 3DS, it sounded like it wouldn't be Falcom directly making the games but rather them licensing their IP to a third party ala Zero No Kiseki Evolution. Bringing that up, is again weird.

Which games has Gungho planned on Vita? And Falcom? Given how similar to PSP 3DS userbase is turning out to be, it won't be surprising to see a prime effort from Falcom there. But let's see.

I see your point. I still think it comes a lot down to the game itself though. I'm not sure about the Samurai Warriors games for the 3DS. Maybe the 2nd one wasnt as good or interesting as the first one, but i have no idea. But we'll see if there is a Ragnarok Odyssey 2 for the Vita, and that the game is recieved well regarding reviews.

It is a fact that launch games (or close to the launch) tend to have better legs. It was true for Ragnarok Odyssey as it was for Samurai Warriors Chronicles.

That might be, but this doesnt necessarily mean that they're avoiding it completely.

Well, avoiding completely, or developing with the minimum effort is basically the same thing when the platform doesn't sell at all.

Yep, many of their games sold in the 10k range on the PSP. They kept on releasing many games despite of this, so i guess it was profitable in general.

Actually NIS suffered a lot as a company during the past years, and I think those flops were one of the causes.

Demon Gaze is actually one of the best examples to this point :) This is a very niche game and Vita is the chosen platform.

Can't wait for the next 3k seller to storm the chart :)

The only way to know if a system is a good business decition is to try, to see if you can find a good audience there. We'll see what the publishers will do in the long run.

That's not completely true. You can also wait and see how others' attempt went.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
It is a fact that launch games (or close to the launch) tend to have better legs. It was true for Ragnarok Odyssey as it was for Samurai Warriors Chronicles.
Yep. On the other hand, there are also several of examples where sequels sells better. I guess it depends from game to game.


Well, avoiding completely, or developing with the minimum effort is basically the same thing when the platform doesn't sell at all.
I see your point, but i wouldnt say that it is basically the same thing. If the niche games still come, then it isnt being avoided.


Actually NIS suffered a lot as a company during the past years, and I think those flops were one of the causes.
Yeah, if they were expected to sell better, it could be a factor indeed.


Can't wait for the next 3k seller to storm the chart :)
It might very well end up selling that number. If they are happy with that result, it could result in more niche support.


That's not completely true. You can also wait and see how others' attempt went.
That is possible indeed, but it would only be an estimate. Every game, big or small, is afterall an unique case, even within the exact same genre (for example, Call of Duty sells much more than Medal of Honor eventhough both are FPS and military shooters). The only way to know for sure is to try :) But of course these things are concidered and estimated. Making games can be expencive, so it isnt always viable to try everything.
 

Takao

Banned
My god, I didn't want to make Takao et al. so angry :) preliminary remarks: the fact that a debate over the ability of Vita to sell even niche games is really eloquent by itself. That platform is a dead horse, and I just checked the list of 360 games in its first year for reference, and I discovered how that was a more lively environment for third parties, lol.

There is no real debate going on here. It's you spouting nonsense about niche developers abandoning the hardware with the only "evidence" being Gungho saying they have a 3DS game. In the past few weeks Vita has seen Demon Gaze, Steins;Gate, Monster Monpiece all announced which are all from niche publishers/developers. There's no reason to believe they're abandoning the hardware.

Which games has Gungho planned on Vita? And Falcom? Given how similar to PSP 3DS userbase is turning out to be, it won't be surprising to see a prime effort from Falcom there. But let's see.

Gungho:


Certainly reads like a Ragnarok Odyssey 2 on Vita, doesn't it?

Falcom's going to announce the next Kiseki soon. I'm going to assume it's not on PSP, and 3DS. PSP is aging, and Falcom's not afraid to jump to next gen (see Ys Celceta), and their show of interest in 3DS was too recent to have a game to show. It could very well be for PS3, and in fact I kind of expect a PS3 version later down the line but I can very realistically see it being a Vita exclusive initially. They do have to get through a bunch of PSP remasters after all.
 
There is no real debate going on here. It's you spouting nonsense about niche developers abandoning the hardware with the only "evidence" being Gungho saying they have a 3DS game. In the past few weeks Vita has seen Demon Gaze, Steins;Gate, Monster Monpiece all announced which are all from niche publishers/developers. There's no reason to believe they're abandoning the hardware.

I just replied to the news about Gungho announcing 3DS support, without having anything for Vita as far as we know (but in any case, why not announce anything if there's actually something to show? Vexata quaestio indeed). Gungho is developing on Vita? As far as we know, no. Is it developing on 3DS? Yes.

Then you can report any statement, but without official announcement, we can say little on what the company has planned on Vita. Ragnarok Odyssey, if it'll happen, surely it'll be on Vita; it's one of the few games that sold reasonably. Let's see if outside the launch window it can work.

Falcom's going to announce the next Kiseki soon. I'm going to assume it's not on PSP, and 3DS. PSP is aging, and Falcom's not afraid to jump to next gen (see Ys Celceta), and their show of interest in 3DS was too recent to have a game to show. It could very well be for PS3, and in fact I kind of expect a PS3 version later down the line but I can very realistically see it being a Vita exclusive initially. They do have to get through a bunch of PSP remasters after all.

Wait... Did they announce the game on Vita? No. You're just assuming.
 

Takao

Banned
Ragnarok Odyssey has literally just launched in North America, and has yet to launch in Europe. Announcing a sequel now is clearly a genius move. The only reason we know of Gungho's 3DS game is because they were specifically asked if they have games in store for other non-Vita hardware. They weren't asked if they had more games for Vita.
 
Ragnarok Odyssey has literally just launched in North America, and has yet to launch in Europe. Announcing a sequel now is clearly a genius move. The only reason we know of Gungho's 3DS game is because they were specifically asked if they have games in store for other non-Vita hardware. They weren't asked if they had more games for Vita.

Still; we are sure they're working on a 3DS game; we're not sure whether they're working on Vita again. Probably yes, maybe not: who knows.
 
To be fair, talking about how you plan to support a system is a far cry away from actually having a bunch of real games announced. i remember how 3rd parties always had some "secret Wii game" in the works that never panned out. We'll see in the coming months how the situation plays out, but honestly does it really even matter either way at this point? It's kind of a pointless debate because the existence of them one way or another doesn't change Vita's fate in the market.
 
Ragnarok Odyssey has literally just launched in North America, and has yet to launch in Europe. Announcing a sequel now is clearly a genius move. The only reason we know of Gungho's 3DS game is because they were specifically asked if they have games in store for other non-Vita hardware. They weren't asked if they had more games for Vita.
I don't see why announcing a sequel now would be stupid, its not like people are gonna cancel their pre-order and wait for the sequel. Fact is niche developers are showing interest to the 3DS publicly, that you can not deny, but whether that means 3DS/Vita support, or exclusivity, we don't know.

To be fair, talking about how you plan to support a system is a far cry away from actually having a bunch of real games announced. i remember how 3rd parties always had some "secret Wii game" in the works that never panned out. We'll see in the coming months how the situation plays out, but honestly does it really even matter either way at this point? It's kind of a pointless debate because the existence of them one way or another doesn't change Vita's fate in the market.
Difference is Wii never had a good ecosystem for core games, the 3DS already does.
 

Tenki

Member
I was thinking about this a bit before: With the Wii U and next-gen consoles (especially Xbox) what's going to happen to the shmups? You know, all this shooters that are now on X360 because the console was capable enough and MS was open to those games.

Will they continue on the next Xbox or they will find a better place to be?
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I was thinking about this a bit before: With the Wii U and next-gen consoles (especially Xbox) what's going to happen to the shmups? You know, all this shooters that are now on X360 because the console was capable enough and MS was open to those games.

Will they continue on the next Xbox or they will find a better place to be?

I feel Microsoft is unlikely to try again in Japan, so there wouldn't be much of a niche audience setting up on the system.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Naaah, Gunho will have at least another title for Vita, I think. It's true they expressed interest in 3DS ( aka: they're developing a game for it), but it shouldn't be a sign of Vita being abandoned. Not at all.
 

Takao

Banned
I don't see why announcing a sequel now would be stupid, its not like people are gonna cancel their pre-order and wait for the sequel. Fact is niche developers are showing interest to the 3DS publicly, that you can not deny, but whether that means 3DS/Vita support, or exclusivity, we don't know.

Gungho itself is publishing the game in Europe. You don't think announcing a sequel would hurt the ability of the first to sell? It's a PSN-only release in that region so there's no preorders.
 
Gungho itself is publishing the game in Europe. You don't think announcing a sequel would hurt the ability of the first to sell? It's a PSN-only release in that region so there's no preorders.

Probably, although we're talking really negligible amounts here as it would be announced for Japan first and most people wouldn't care/know. This isn't RE4 PS2 that was splattered across the magazines right before the GC version came out.
 

Takao

Banned
Probably, although we're talking really negligible amounts here as it would be announced for Japan first and most people wouldn't care/know.

The kind of people who are interested in a Ragnarok game on the PlayStation Vita are probably the kind of people who would know of a sequel announced for Japan.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Probably, although we're talking really negligible amounts here as it would be announced for Japan first and most people wouldn't care/know. This isn't RE4 PS2 that was splattered across the magazines right before the GC version came out.

I don't know. Considering the actual Vita state now worldwide, plus the kind of game, probably many people interested in the game would know about a sequel being announced.

EDIT: What Takao said.
 

Spiegel

Member
This pointless arguing (okay, Gunho has one 3DS game in development) almost made me want for the Monster Hunter Vita discussion to come back. Almost.

I think it's been one or two days since we had one of those.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
This pointless arguing (okay, Gunho has one 3DS game in development) almost made me want for the Monster Hunter Vita discussion to come back. Almost.

I think it's been one or two days since we had one of those.

Groundhog Day Groundhog Day Groundhog Day Groundhog Day.
 
This pointless arguing (okay, Gunho has one 3DS game in development) almost made me want for the Monster Hunter Vita discussion to come back. Almost.

I think it's been one or two days since we had one of those.

Probably Nikkei was right when stating that some third parties were shifting production from Vita to 3DS, given how things are shaping.
 
I feel Microsoft is unlikely to try again in Japan, so there wouldn't be much of a niche audience setting up on the system.

MS should just sell the rights to Xbox in Japan and hope someone can make more of the brand than they did. Can't hurt and they'd probably do a better job than MS who has more important markets to attend to.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
From some retailer reports, things don't look very hot for Xillia 2 sales.

edit: First day sales of Xillia 2 half of Xillia was also leading to that.
 
It wasn't bad. I'd describe it as underwhelming.

Which is enough to ensure that a direct sequel would sell less than a proper new Tales.

That was expected. But I don't think Namco will lose money or something. Xillia was an incredible success for them; Xillia 2 will be more in line with the average of the series. During PS2 days, there were strong entries, and less strong entries.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
MS should just sell the rights to Xbox in Japan and hope someone can make more of the brand than they did. Can't hurt and they'd probably do a better job than MS who has more important markets to attend to.

I'm assuming they're still going to release the system themselves in Japan because they want the appearance of being in the region, if only for Japanese publishers to be able to say the platform exists in their home market as well.
 
Also, for Falcom on 3DS, it sounded like it wouldn't be Falcom directly making the games but rather them licensing their IP to a third party ala Zero No Kiseki Evolution. Bringing that up, is again weird.
That was GAF speculation, the original comment on Kiseki games going to 3DS really didn't indicate one way or the other. It could definitely be done through licensing, or Falcom could do it themselves.
 
Just saw on amazon.jp that Yakuza 5 is 8800Y.

WTF Sega, even SRWOG is cheaper.


well, it has a 20% off, so basically is 6900yen

it's also shipped with a cd soundtrack (if i understood correctly)


they should have done a limited with the cd (8800yen) and a normal edition (7800yen or less)
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
[PSP] Black Panther: Yakuza New Chapter # <ADV> (Sega) {2010.09.22} (¥6.279)
[PSP] Black Panther: Yakuza New Chapter [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Sega) {2010.09.22} (¥9.429)
[PSP] Black Panther: Yakuza New Chapter [Premium Box] <ADV> (Sega) {2010.09.22} (¥9.429)
[PSP] Black Panther 2: Yakuza Ashura Chapter <ADV> (Sega) {2012.03.22} (¥6.279)

[PS2] Yakuza <ADV> (Sega) {2005.12.08} (¥7.140)
[PS2] Yakuza 2 <ADV> (Sega) {2006.12.07} (¥7.140)

[PS3] Yakuza: Kenzan! # <ADV> (Sega) {2008.03.06} (¥7.980)
[PS3] Yakuza: Kenzan! [PlayStation 3 Pack] <ADV> (Sega) {2008.03.06} (¥47.040)
[PS3] Yakuza 3 # <ADV> (Sega) {2009.02.26} (¥7.980)
[PS3] Yakuza 3 [Rising Dragon Pack] <ADV> (Sega) {2009.02.26} (¥45.980)
[PS3] Yakuza 4 <ADV> (Sega) {2010.03.18} (¥7.980)
[PS3] Yakuza: Dead Souls <ADV> (Sega) {2011.06.09} (¥7.980)
[PS3] Yakuza 1 & 2 HD Edition <ADV> (Sega) {2012.11.01} (¥5.229)
 

Hobby

Member
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hino said there's no going to be one buy psp/vita game with confidence please buy it oh gosh we are killing our ips please help us

this man is a liar

To add to this, he says there isn't going to be a Boost this time, and that on the 15th "shocking" information will be announced that will be very beneficial to current owners of the game, and recommends picking it up and finishing it before then.
 
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