Support NeoGAF

[Spookie]

nothings going to happen, is it?

That certainly seems the case.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Assuming failure is the easiest way to lose the race.

It's about time Team GB started demanding answers.

 

[Exterminieren]

nothings going to happen, is it?

I would be amazed.

Fuck our politics and media.

 

[SmokyDave]

nothings going to happen, is it?

I suspect some egregious offenders will be thrown to the wolves whilst the rest close ranks and avoid getting splattered with blood. I have no idea how us peasantfolk stop that happening.

 

[captainnapalm]

It's become to big to hide. I don't even think 'them' throwing the public a few bits of rancid meat like Gary Glitter and Freddie Starr will do, those guys are small fry. This scandal is creeping towards the right honorables and the lords of this land.

I would not doubt that the ones who engaged in stuff like this have incriminating stuff on each other a mutually assured destruction if you will.

Sooner rather than later someone is going to flip when the heat comes to their door.

The big problem is that the establishment itself is going to be doing the investigating. My guess is they will offer up a few more sacrificial lambs and hope the scandal blows over. Will people let them do that, though, this time.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I have no idea how us peasantfolk stop that happening.

What needs to happen is those who were abused need to come forward, in masses.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. Most of them have been silenced.

 

[DECK'ARD]

What needs to happen is those who were abused need to come forward, in masses.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. Most of them have been silenced.

They will also be happily torn to shreds now by Mail journalists for being weirdos for being raped as a child.

The wagons are circling.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Assuming failure is the easiest way to lose the race.

It's about time Team GB started demanding answers.

QFT. This scandal MUST not be forgotten about, ignored or kicked into the long grass. We must not let them do that. This is just about the disgusting crime of child abuse, this is about the ones in power using that power to cover up their crimes and how anyone could not have their blood boiling at the thought I really don't know.

I really feel so strongly about this, how anyone could act or feel blasé about it I have no idea.

 

[DECK'ARD]

QFT. This scandal MUST not be forgotten about, ignored or kicked into the long grass. We must not let them do that. This is just about the disgusting crime of child abuse, this is about the ones in power using that power to cover up their crimes and how anyone could not have their blood boiling at the thought I really don't know.

I really feel so strongly about this, how anyone could act or feel blasé about it I have no idea.

I'm with you.

This all makes me furious, and people NEED to be furious. Far more furious than they managed to get about some MP fixing up his house on the public's expense. They haven't just been fucking children, they've been fucking all of us as well.

For decades.

 

[Oxx]

It's just hard to envisage a 'victory' when the police, politicians, royalty, the media, and however many influential individuals all seem to be in it together.

And the BBC are rather unhelpfully managing to look as incompetent as possible.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It's just hard to envisage a 'victory' when the police, politicians, royalty, the media, and however many influential individuals all seem to be in it together.

And the BBC seem to be fucking it up.

Well there is one thing now that was missing for most of those decades, the Internet.

It's about time people really put it to use to stop the control of information, because that is ENTIRELY how this was able to go on for so long unchecked and unpunished.

 

[Dabanton]

It's Children In Need this friday.

In the light of recent events it's going to be stomach turning to see celebs and politicians pretending to actually care about their well being

 

[BGBW]

I have no idea how us peasantfolk stop that happening.

We can hound them on Twitter! Oh wait, that may get us arrested for cyber bullying.

It's Children In Need this friday.

In the light of recent events it's going to be stomach turning to see celebs and politicians pretending to actually care about their well being

Could this be the first time heckling will be heard on CiN?

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'd like to remind Cameron that witches were never real as well.

This is all very real, and we should go hunting for it.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I thought exactly the same thing just now when I saw an advert for it in on the TV in our lobby, but then I also think after all that has happened the welfare of children and supporting causes like Children in Need is more important than ever before. I really hope that people don't stop giving to these causes because of this scandal.

I'd like to see the BBC take the opportunity to highlight the victims of North Wales.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Fat chance.

Well maybe someone should suggest it, or maybe they could just add what SmokeyDave mentioned to iPlayer:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/956353.stm

The story of a young adult trying to come to terms with the abuse he suffered as a child in local authority care will be told in a one-off drama to be screened this weekend. "Care" was filmed in Wales, and the drama draws on the experiences of people across the country, including the well-documented cases in Merseyside, Cleveland and north Wales.

Writer Kieran Prendiville read 'mountains' of witness statements before beginning work on the script. "It is only then you can see the effect and the damage that has been done," says Prendiville.

"Care is a drama, not a documentary," he says. "The characters and circumstances are fictional, but it's a genuine expression of the rage and shame that this kind of abuse generates."

The central character, Davey, is abused by a paedophile gang in a children's home. He finally plucks up the courage to tell a school inspector, only to discover that he too is involved in the ring. The situation eventually proves too much for one of his friends, who commits suicide.

 

[mclem]

I'd like to see the BBC take the opportunity to highlight the victims of North Wales.

There's usually at least one film alluding to child sexual abuse - usually after 9pm for obvious reasons - although I doubt they'd get specific.

 

[Dabanton]

Great article from 2000 well worth reading all of it some may have seen this already. I have highlighted a few parts. The lengths these people and their supporters go to is frightening...

The Waterhouse Report

By Simon Regan

20 February 2000

The fact that the Waterhouse report went as far as it did is highly commendable, and obviously long overdue. But the trouble with any investigation which tries to break through a 'cult of silence' is the lingering doubts that it will ever get down to the whole full truth of the matter. Waterhouse is probably merely the tip of the iceberg.

The report suggests there is 'no evidence' that Freemasonry had anything to do with the scandal. Yet there were two inadequate and inconclusive police inquiries, including one into a senior officer, by a force in North Wales riddled with freemasons.

There was a consistent lack of initiative on the part of the local Clwyd CC in the face of overwhelming evidence of consistent child abuse at Bryn Estyn, ostensibly because the council insurers advised against any action. This in itself insults democracy in a way that borders on the criminal. By a policy of non-action, both the police and the council became embroiled in a blatant cover-up.

Anyone who has even vaguely become acquainted with paedophilia knows very well that they will go to the ends of the earth to keep their activities absolutely secret. They are professional experts in covering their tracks.

In the early nineties, in the now defunct Scallywag magazine, which I founded, we interviewed in some depth twelve former inmates at Bryn Estyn who had all been involved in the Wrexham paedophile ring, which the tribunal acknowledges existed. Most of these interviews were extremely harrowing and disturbing, but were gently and sensitively conducted over pub lunches where the victim could relax. We subsequently persuaded ten of them to make sworn affidavits which we proposed to use as back up to half a dozen paedophile stories we later published.

Two of these young men, who had been 14-years-old at the time, swore they had been not only introduced to the paedophile ring operating in the Crest Hotel in Wrexham but had later been escorted on three or four occasions to an address in Pimlico where they were further abused.

We took them separately to Pimlico and asked them to point out the building where this had taken place. They were both positive in their identification. It turned out to be the private flat of a well known, and since highly discredited lobbyist who later went into obscurity in some disgrace because of his involvement with Mohammed al-Fayed and the 'cash for questions' scandal. At the time we ran a story entitled 'Boys for Questions' and named several prominent members of the then Thatcher government. These allegations went to the very top of the Tory party, yet there was a curious and almost ominous lack of writs.


The lobbyist was a notorious 'queen' who specialised in gay parties with a 'political mix' in the Pimlico area - most convenient to the Commons - and which included selected flats in Dolphin Square. The two young men were able to give us very graphic descriptions of just what went on, including acts of buggery, and alleged that they were only two of many from children's homes other than North Wales.

There was, to my certain knowledge, at least one resignation from the Conservative office in Smith Square once we had published our evidence and named names.

Subsequently, over a rent dispute which is still a matter of litigation, Dr. Julian Lewis, now Conservative MP for New Forest (East) but then deputy head of research at Conservative Central Office in Smith Square, managed to purchase the contents of our offices, which included all our files. It had been alleged that we owed rent, which we disputed, but under a court order the landlords were able to change the locks and seize our assets which included all our files, including those we had made on paedophiles. It was apparently quite legal, but it was most certainly a dirty trick.

All of a sudden very private information, some of it even privileged between ourselves and our lawyer during the John Major libel action, was being published in selected, pro-Conservative sections of the media.

Subsequently, during a court case initiated by Lewis, I was able in my defence to seek discovery of documents and asked to see the seized files. The paedophile papers were missing. This is a very great shame, because Sir Ronald Waterhouse certainly should have been aware of them.

I believe that the secrecy the Establishment wraps around itself easily equals that of the paedophiles. They really do look after each other and quite professionally cover their tracks.

The real trouble about exposing paedophiles is that former victims of child abuse make lousy witnesses. By the very nature of the abuse, when they are rudely shoved out into the wide world (one of the witnesses, Stephen Messham, for example, was released on his sixteenth birthday on Christmas day after two years of abuse, and had to sleep rough on the streets for four and a half months), they are often deeply psychologically disturbed.

Some of the extreme cases commit suicide, many more were sexually disorientated in the worst possible way. Some became gay prostitutes, others drug addicts, and in nearly every case, at some stage, they needed lengthy counselling. Marriages quickly disintegrated in psychological turmoil and a lot of former victims had real difficulties raising their own children. There are very few victims of child abuse who come out of it without deep scars.

It was all very well for us to take statements from former victims in the cosy atmosphere of a pub lunch, but put them up against an agile and eminent QC whose sole task is to discredit them, and they quickly crumble, even break down in tears. Many former victims now have criminal records of some kind, owing almost exclusively to the abuse itself, and the barrister will brutally exploit this as evidence that the witness is unreliable and tainted. Faced with the choice of a clearly neurotic young man who quickly falls down in the witness box, and a smooth, experienced, erudite and often highly respected culprit, juries tend to give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

I watched it in the now famous Court 13 at the High Court during the libel action between former Supt. Gordon Anglesey and Private Eye (and others) when, despite the fact that under cross examination, Anglesey had to admit that his evidence did not correspond with his own notebooks, the 'other side' subsequently tore the five main prosecution witnesses to pieces in a monumental act of judicial harassment. Like the whole story of child abuse in North Wales and elsewhere, it broke my heart.

Simon Regan (deceased) was editor of Scallywag Magazine

On another note this is the second time Dr. Julian Lewis has come up in regards to this story and his creepily extreme closeness to it. How the hell are bloggers doing the job of our so called press.

Here is something DECK'ARD posted last week Dr. Julian Lewis with David Cameron.

Cameron isn't too far from the doors that are being opened himself.

Everything from that October 5th blog is being confirmed so far:

http://www.ccs-rochford.co.uk/spivey/?p=6251

 

[zoukka]

I have no idea how us peasantfolk stop that happening.

 

[Jackpot]

It's just hard to envisage a 'victory' when the police, politicians, royalty, the media, and however many influential individuals all seem to be in it together.

And the BBC are rather unhelpfully managing to look as incompetent as possible.

This is where I am right now^.

It would be (is?) incredibly easy to muddy the waters and cast doubt on this.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The smell of a cover up is really getting rank now, and as for the shameful turning this into an attack on the BBC, one of the few things this country actually does well and we have people wanting it to be shut

I suspect that is because more and more evidence is coming out that the BBC knew that a lot of this was going on, on their own property, and shrugged it off at the time. Would you have the same stance if it turned out Kelvin MacKenzie had been systematically molesting children in The Sun editing room whilst the corporate higher ups ignored it?

 

[Exterminieren]

I suspect that is because more and more evidence is coming out that the BBC knew that a lot of this was going on, on their own property, and shrugged it off at the time. Would you have the same stance if it turned out Kelvin MacKenzie had been systematically molesting children in The Sun editing room whilst the corporate higher ups ignored it?

Except the focus is on the BBC making a Tory peer feel bad at the moment, not the systematic abuse of children. I wholeheartedly desire for those who enabled this sort of thing, both within the BBC and without, to be brought before the law and made to pay for their enabling bullshit, and for the BBC to be utterly rinsed of any of the residue from those days, but that's plainly not what this is currently about.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Except the focus is on the BBC making a Tory peer feel bad at the moment, not the systematic abuse of children. I wholeheartedly desire for those who enabled this sort of thing, both within the BBC and without, to be brought before the law and made to pay for their enabling bullshit, and for the BBC to be utterly rinsed of any of the residue from those days, but that's plainly not what this is currently about.

Yeah, because they just released a documentary that was horribly amateurish and came close to ruining a man's life. There isn't a ceiling to the amount of things they can be simultaneously lambasted for at once. The BBC are being beaten with a stick, right now, because they keep making mistakes.

 

[mclem]

I'm not from the UK, but people there should be glad and relieved that this has come out. Think of all the future children that could be saved. Think of how these bastards have been having their way for decades. This cancerous tumour needed to be exposed.

What I'm wondering is that everything we've been hearing about happened some time ago now, so... why did it stop? And, more chillingly, did it stop?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yeah, because they just released a documentary that was horribly amateurish and came close to ruining a man's life. There isn't a ceiling to the amount of things they can be simultaneously lambasted for at once. The BBC are being beaten with a stick, right now, because they keep making mistakes.

Lord McAlpine should have been more concerned with what his cousin was getting up to at the time.

 

[Saiyar]

What I'm wondering is that everything we've been hearing about happened some time ago now, so... why did it stop? And, more chillingly, did it stop?

The Internet. It has become far harder to keep secrets, especially for well known public figures.

 

[captainnapalm]

As much as I admire Alan Moore's particular brand of anarchy, perhaps this awful business could pave the way for a new political party, free of this ingrained corruption and actually representative of the people, to emerge and actually gain some popular support?

For all its shortcomings, democracy, if used correctly, does have the potential to be extraordinarily effective.

 

[Exterminieren]

Yeah, because they just released a documentary that was horribly amateurish and came close to ruining a man's life. There isn't a ceiling to the amount of things they can be simultaneously lambasted for at once. The BBC are being beaten with a stick, right now, because they keep making mistakes.

You really think that's the only reason the BBC's taking brickbats right now? Seriously?

Yes, the BBC fucked up. That doesn't merit the disproportionate treatment they're getting now. Compare this case to the allegations across the print media last year over Chris Jefferies, and tell me with a straight face that they received the same reaction.

 

[Exterminieren]

The correct answer is that if anything like this had happened at NI we would want James Murdoch fired and Rupert Murdoch under investigation over what he did or didn't know about the culture at NI. Which is fair. You have consistently defended the BBC for reasons I don't understand, they are a guilty party in all of this, much of the abuse happened on their premises, and while this does not absolve politicians and other powerful figures at the time, the guilty parties at the BBC must be brought to book as well as the figures involved with the North Wales, Islington, Rochdale and Bradford abuse scandals and coverups.

I don't recall anyone saying that the guilty parties within the BBC shouldn't be brought to justice. The problem is that the BBC is being used as a scapegoat for everything by this point, and other parties who are just as guilty or more are being neglected.

 

[8bit]

Steve Messham seems to have gone missing : http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/exclusive-steve-messham-missing-for-eight-hours/

Of course, it could be that he's decided to lie low but yesterday's character assassination probably isn't helping with what is likely a fragile state of mind.

 

[PJV3]

Why do people keep bringing up Tom Watson?
He hasn't been talking about the north Wales situation.

 

[Brera]

This scandal is going to really scare the elites of the world.

The internet cannot be controlled. It's a level playing field. Open discussion that is searchable and researchable is out there in the form of twitter, blogs, message boards, youtube etc and thanks to google caching the internet, it can never be lost.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's a bullshit answer. You are smearing by proxy. The BBC fucked up by listening to Tom Watson and in doing so they have completely overshadowed the actual issue at hand, sexual abuse of children, and given the establishment a way out.

The correct answer is that if anything like this had happened at NI we would want James Murdoch fired and Rupert Murdoch under investigation over what he did or didn't know about the culture at NI. Which is fair. You have consistently defended the BBC for reasons I don't understand, they are a guilty party in all of this, much of the abuse happened on their premises, and while this does not absolve politicians and other powerful figures at the time, the guilty parties at the BBC must be brought to book as well as the figures involved with the North Wales, Islington, Rochdale and Bradford abuse scandals and coverups.

I suggest you just ignore my posts because I think you are way off base with everything, and too free to dish anger in one direction but too reluctant in others.

 

[radioheadrule83]

That's a bullshit answer. You are smearing by proxy. The BBC fucked up by listening to Tom Watson and in doing so they have completely overshadowed the actual issue at hand, sexual abuse of children, and given the establishment a way out.

The correct answer is that if anything like this had happened at NI we would want James Murdoch fired and Rupert Murdoch under investigation over what he did or didn't know about the culture at NI. Which is fair. You have consistently defended the BBC for reasons I don't understand, they are a guilty party in all of this, much of the abuse happened on their premises, and while this does not absolve politicians and other powerful figures at the time, the guilty parties at the BBC must be brought to book as well as the figures involved with the North Wales, Islington, Rochdale and Bradford abuse scandals and coverups.

The thing is - Director General at the BBC is a termed post, and people don't last forever in showbiz - a lot of the guilty parties have moved on. It is ridiculous to hold the current DG of the BBC and his staff to account for something that their forbears did... heads are already rolling over their recent mistakes (Newsnight, etc), which is good. And it is important to find out what they know and how they can help the investigation yes, but this unscrupulous stuff went on for that long that there are now a whole other group of people in place and the culture is very different... so no, drawing a parallel with how we'd feel if this were NI is not quite a valid comparison.

If we want to go after the people who presided over the newsnight expose-vs-tribute clusterfuck, we should look to the DG who was in charge at the time, the man currently taking up a CEO post at the New York Times (Mark Thompson) - and any staff who were there at the time with him. If we want to go after the people who presided over Savile and all that other stuff - then we have to go even further back

And again, we must be careful to not let this overshadow the very real North Wales allegations and victims.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Steve Messham seems to have gone missing : http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/exclusive-steve-messham-missing-for-eight-hours/

Of course, it could be that he's decided to lie low but yesterday's character assassination probably isn't helping with what is likely a fragile state of mind.

If he turns up like Dr David Kelly I'm going to go insane

 

[Omikaru]

And, more chillingly, did it stop?

I think the answer to that is probably no.

I said the other day that I thought the firewalls were going up. This seems to be the case. It's disgusting that the attention has shifted over to some imaginary crisis in the BBC, and not a word is mentioned about the cause of this in the first place: the revelations surrounding institutionalised child abuse in the highest echelons of our society.

I don't think I could be any less proud to be British than I am right now.

 

[SmokyDave]

Steve Messham seems to have gone missing : http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/exclusive-steve-messham-missing-for-eight-hours/

Of course, it could be that he's decided to lie low but yesterday's character assassination probably isn't helping with what is likely a fragile state of mind.

Let's hope he hasn't gone for a 'walk' in some 'woods'.

 

[Novid]

This scandal is going to really scare the elites of the world.

The internet cannot be controlled. It's a level playing field. Open discussion that is searchable and researchable is out there in the form of twitter, blogs, message boards, youtube etc and thanks to google caching the internet, it can never be lost.

Why do you think the SOPA/ACTA/PIPA etc has been on the pipe for years? Why in the world do you think despite all the BULLSHIT The PRC has been doing towards western governments (Intellectual property being one, part and parcel of the whole anime pireting outfit Crunchyroll via Huawei servers and the like and other bullshit) the western governments have been propping the PRC for DECADES over ITS OWN People and as well as the Chinese?

 

[Exterminieren]

Steve Messham seems to have gone missing : http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/exclusive-steve-messham-missing-for-eight-hours/

Of course, it could be that he's decided to lie low but yesterday's character assassination probably isn't helping with what is likely a fragile state of mind.

If anything has happened to him, there should be utter hell to pay.

 

[radioheadrule83]

This is a very worrying development. I really hope he isn't found in a week or so having hanged himself in a forest, the pressure he must be under right now would unbearable.

The government better hope that he isn't too..

The Mail would be worthy of an instant national boycott. I know I'd be campaigning for one.. Fucking shit-rag.

I'd hope that Labour would immediately call for a transparent inquest too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves, hopefully he's okay..

 

[travisbickle]

I suspect that is because more and more evidence is coming out that the BBC knew that a lot of this was going on, on their own property, and shrugged it off at the time. Would you have the same stance if it turned out Kelvin MacKenzie had been systematically molesting children in The Sun editing room whilst the corporate higher ups ignored it?

Maybe if MacKenzie had resigned after falsely alleging Liverpool fans urinated over the dead at Hillsborough, he wouldn't be in the position to molest children.

 

[captainnapalm]

Great article from 2000 well worth reading all of it some may have seen this already. I have highlighted a few parts. The lengths these people and their supporters go to is frightening...



On another note this is the second time Dr. Julian Lewis has come up in regards to this story and his creepily extreme closeness to it. How the hell are bloggers doing the job of our so called press.

Here is something DECK'ARD posted last week Dr. Julian Lewis with David Cameron.

I can't help but notice that Freemasonry is being mentioned in that article above. It sends us straight into the realm of conspiracy theory, which worries me because if anything makes people switch off quick, it's when the mass media has filed something under conspiracy theory.

But these kinds of allegations have flown around freemasonry and all the other weird and suspicious little secret clubs that these rich pricks frequent for some time - not just in the UK, by the way, but wherever these people are found. Even more worrying is the suggestion that these aren't just powerful men buggering children because they can, but because it may form part of some bizarre, hidden occult belief system.

I've long suspected that the occult connections made with freemasonry are accurate, because some of the pictures that exist of the more ornate grand lodges and things are filled to the brim with occult symbolism. To a fairly undeniable degree.

Just as an aside, Stanley Kubrick's last film, Eyes Wide Shut, was expressly about this. I have no doubt that if he somehow could, if the film had been a novel for example, he would have had children at that weird sex party Tom Cruise goes to. The occult symbolism was also very heavily encoded into that film.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The government better hope that he isn't too..

The Mail would be worthy of an instant national boycott. I know I'd be campaigning for one.. Fucking shit-rag.

I'd hope that Labour would immediately call for a transparent inquest too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves, hopefully he's okay..

Let's also not forget at least 16 other victims from North Wales are already dead, 3 from suicide not sure what happened to the others.

 

[winstano]

Let's also not forget at least 16 other victims from North Wales are already dead, 3 from suicide not sure what happened to the others.

True, but if the worst does turn out to be true on this one, it'll be as a more-or-less direct pressure from the Mail that caused it.

 

[Novid]

Maybe if MacKenzie had resigned after falsely alleging Liverpool fans urinated over the dead at Hillsborough, he wouldn't be in the position to molest children.

this is getting crazier by the min...

 

[DECK'ARD]

True, but if the worst does turn out to be true on this one, it'll be as a more-or-less direct pressure from the Mail that caused it.

Yep, and the Mail didn't decide to do that for no reason. A circling of the wagons.

So many people and institutions either engaged in the abuse of children, complicit in allowing it to continue, wilfully protecting the guilty, or trying to discredit the victims.

Disgusted doesn't even begin to cover it now.

 

[SmokyDave]

True, but if the worst does turn out to be true on this one, it'll be as a more-or-less direct pressure from the Mail that caused it.

Or, more-or-less direct pressure on the windpipe from a man wearing black gloves.

 

[Jackpot]

Or, more-or-less direct pressure on the windpipe from a man wearing black gloves.

With comments like these and people claiming David Icke's paedo claims can be taken seriously you're doing a grand job of muddying the issue yourselves.

 

[SmokyDave]

With comments like these and people claiming David Icke's paedo claims can be taken seriously you're doing a grand job of muddying the issue yourselves.

Yes, how terribly far-fetched an idea. I shall wait for the press to tell me what really happened.

(I know you're right in theory, but this is idle rambling on GAF. I'm not being interviewed on the 6 O'clock news).

 

[DECK'ARD]

I think journalists should be digging into Sir Peter Morrison, that sounds like a treasure trove of cuntery and protection at the highest levels of office. He's dead as well, although the ones who knew might still have something to say about it. Probably why we are hearing nothing there, like Laud.

So much smoke, time to get to the flames.