360.Both are expected to be announced before e3 2013.
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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
When they announced the console they've promised a console for everyone even for people who cared about hardware but they simply lied to us, with the wii they had the balls to release the console without pointing at amazing graphics because they were strong with their gimmick now the gimmick is weak as fuck but the console seriously is nothing more of the Wii of its generation...really nothing more.
I don't even care too much about 3rd party or sales (and as a end consumer no one of you should care about sales) i lived with N64 and GC and i thought they were fantastic consoles (GC for me is the second best Nintendo home console and third overall home console).
Wolves Evolve
Member
It is impossible for there to be a standard. There will be no standard.
well, vita.
Brad Grenz
Member
At the beginning of the 360's life they use to brag that games were required to be 720p with MSAA to pass their TCRs. That lasted about until Halo 3 launched with a sub 720p resolution.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Yes, I dunno why none of the GAF experts are commenting on that, I'm very curious to know if it's plausible or something Shin'en pulled out of their ass for practically no reason whatsoever as the potential issues with RAM highlighted here weren't even known at the time to even assume they just wanted to defend the platform they're developing for or whatever else. If they just wanted some general purpose praise they didn't have to go to such details saying that it avoids RAM latency bottlenecks or any such specifics.
it's kind of sad that the thread is teetering on inanity now. oh well, there is always b3d.
The 'slowness' can be offset somewhat by the eDRAM, however that is not a simple thing for port teams.
That won't mean much too because the engines being developed to support the modern architecture in those consoles will be runnable on the WiiU.
It's all about utilizing the hardware's new features and architecture, which those old engines aren't doing on the WiiU. Next gen engines will run a lot better on the WiiU than 360 or PS3, if at all.
It will be "standard" the same way it was standard for the Xbox 360 launch. The TRC said "your games must be 720p" (it was dropped later, btw) and many of MS' own launch titles were subHD. You'll not see an enforced standard, and as I said... resolution and framerate are the first things to go when developers will want shinier screenshots.
The first couple years of next gen, however, will see more proliferation of 1080p content. Why? Because there will be a lot of cross-generational releases for the first while (PS360 + PS4720 + PC + approx 25% of them going to Wii U)
The information comes from thin air (see: my tag). Believe it if you'd wish (or don't), but it's not the first time a console releases in the same year as an E3. The 360 had that honour.
fabricated backlash
Member
Ahahahahaha lol, at this point I don't know what's more sad, Nintendo fanboys trying to defend the abysmal low RAM speed or people like you still believing that 1080p will become a standard on next gen consoles. Sure 1080p will be more feasible, but devs won't use it to the extend that you are deluding yourself into believing.
Yeah, I wonder if the eDRAM is enough to offset this pool. I'm actually surprised to see Nintendo go for such slow RAM, given their history on preferring fast RAM with less capacity.
Unless we get a complete teardown of the CPU/GPU and eDRAM setup, this is the only thing to go by and it's not looking good.
That was mainly bullshit from MS because PGR3 launched on the 360 in Sub HD.
please give me the exact quote where nintendo promised that.. aside of generic this is a console for everyone remark.
Also if its the wii of the next generation it will mean that it will be the market leader as well, which is a good thing for nintendo
Raitosaito
Member
I was going to post something similar to this. Why does everyone need to justify their purchases?
We'll see,i don't think nintendo will get good 3rd party support with the wiiu anyways.
You know, repeating your post is generally frowned upon. Also, I already answered you. Those comments were already discussed in their own thread, and we are now more interested in newly released concrete information than vague feel-good messages by developers.
Your attempts at deflection are a bit sad, really.
Yeah, that's why you buy a PC instead if you're wanting that sort of rendering resolution. Console developer support should be even better than this generation, which was a significant step up from last generation.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I reposted for new page because I ctrl+f alextended (and ideaman since I was quoting him) up to a few pages back and didn't see a reply but am really curious about it, link please? All I found is this from someone else.
Backfoggen
Banned
I think 1080p will be what 720p was this gen. There will be a good chunk of Sub-1080p games, but I doubt a lot of games will go all the way down to 720p. It just looks too bad.
If you honestly believe that the majority of people reading this thread have a real understanding of what memory architecture means to overall system performance your estimation of GAF is a lot higher than mine.
It's definitely sad alright.
It all echoes what happened with the Wii.
Nintendo is far too stubborn, and for that reason I'd honestly like to see them fail.
fabricated backlash
Member
I will, I'm planning on running WiiU/PS4/PC next gen. Best of all worlds. Multiplats on PC, PS and WiiU for exclusives. It would take a miracle* for me to get another Microsoft console in the future.
*read Microsoft actually rethinking their monetization schemes to benefit customers.... lol
Then the gulf between PC and console would be even bigger.
What if next gen PSN is no longer free to play online?
Margalis quoted part of your post. Which is now apparently gone. Who are you trying to fool here?
It was this one: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44470330&postcount=407
Do we need to call a mod to look at the edit history? This is pathetic.
They only work on Nintendo systems. Of course it wont be a problem for them, their games are entirely designed around it.
The question is for ports and next gen titles, if it will be enough. Designing around one hardwares memory setup isn't attractive.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
PS360 were quite capable of 1080p60 and have such games. The day all games do it (or more) will be a matter of design choices made by software people rather than hardware people.Lovely Salsa said:
Is that necessarily relevant, though? 640x480 or better were pretty common when PS1/N64 were doing a quarter of that. 1024x768 was pretty common by the time consoles got around to doing 480p regularly. 1280x1024 was no big thing years before the 2005-2006 consoles hit.Perkel said:
Brad Grenz
Member
Obviously they were full of it, and once the pixel counters were born the jig was up. But it was a major MS talking point for the 360 at launch.
fabricated backlash
Member
As long as they use resolutions that scale directly, anything between 720p and 1080p is ok with me.
Then that means no PS4 for me. Simple as that. I'm just going to borrow one from a friend when an exclusive game I want to play comes around (as I intend on doing with the next Xbox.)
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
What are you even talking about, I was clearly asking for a link to your reply that I missed since you said "I answered you", I know I removed my post from the last page and put it to this one and wasn't trying to hide any of that since you just quoted me saying I reposted it (actually I wasn't even aware that's what you cared to discuss and backseat mod over the actual topic I was trying to get a reply to in this fast moving thread). If you wanna claim you just care to discuss the factual information over actual developer input on how it affects development in practice then there's no discussion to be had at all, just the OP, 22>17 etc.
I imagine 1080p will be more common for devs who don't have the finances to pump into other graphical improvements, or lower budget titles.
MadeInBeats
Banned
A decent competent developer directly comments on the RAM latency and bottlenecks of the previous consoles and much better the WiiU is in that department and GAF, well GAF, is just ... what can you say that hasn't already been said.
One person excepted a ban bet, which by all accounts should already be in effect.
Yes, the RAM seems slow, but it's 2GB (not 1.5), unified and it isn't the main RAM, while eDRAM is the main, and it should be 32 MB and it should offset the speed problems. This is what I'm gathering right now, also knowing we just can't compare PC RAM to console RAM.
Ouside the ED Ram (which should help alleviate some of the bottlenecks associated with this DDR3 PC-like ram) you can absolutely compare this to PC ram.
In the same breath, you'll be able to do the same thing with other 8th gen consoles. (i.e. how do you think Microsoft is putting 8GB into theirs? It certainly won't be via GDDR5)
If the hardware for either consoles are close to what's rumored, then it should be the standard. I don't know where the doubt is coming from or why people think that resolution is some kind of unattainable magic dragon. 1080p/30 to cinematic FPS isn't groundbreaking stuff.
Not really. Consoles are closed systems. But in a year or two yes there will be small gap that will enlarge with every year.
Well, here's my original reply: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44470477&postcount=442
It was to Margalis, who was replying to you, so it's a transitive reply I guess. Anyway, as I'm pointing out for the third time now, the Shin'en interview is (a) old news, (b) vague and (c) coming from a developer with strong ties to Nintendo.
This thread deals with something that is breaking news, discovered by an unbiased source and a hard technical fact.
Now are you still wondering why people interested in technology and factual information would rather discuss the latter than the former?
This makes me sad. When I tried out NSMBU at E3 I thought it was pretty durn nice (opinions on art style notwithstanding) for a 720p game.
For consoles the engine's might be demanding more to accommodate the resolution target. It could be potentially gimping the game out of the gate.
Like what if MS/Sony mandated that 720p be the standard or nothing at all.
COD on consoles probably would have received very little technological jumps with that restriction.
This RAM is basically PC RAM though. It'll be better utilized since it's not running a general purpose OS, but it's still slower than GDDR3 ram.
Also, isn't 32MB eDRAM an insane amount?
He just said he reposted it for a new page.
Yes Durante, call a mod because someone tried to "fool" you by reposting their comment to a new page then saying they had done exactly that.
You must be easily fooled.
Alextended said:
STOP TRYING TO FOOL DURANTE HE'S ONTO YOU!
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
So it wasn't an answer to my question (asking actual experts to tell us if it's plausible, not because Shin'en said so but with the rest limited info about the various chip designs and general, er, plausibility) at all then, instead just trying to dismiss the possibility altogether, especially with that irrelevant (c). Thanks.
Let's do it your way then, just talking facts and no other relevant information.
So, yeah, 17GB/s is less than 22GB/s. I confirmed it in calculator. So... Yeah.
...
MadeInBeats
Banned
fabricated backlash
Member
According to GAF fantasy rainbow land, the next Xbox and PS will have GDDR7 with 500GB/s bandwith all running on skinned hamsters on speed. 1080p/100fps will become the sub standard, and Avatar will look like a text adventure.
For those arguing to use the WiiU spec thread as a social study playground, don't try to act as if the Nintendo fans there are the interesting case studies. People living in denial has been studied well enough, but I'd say it's long overdue to do a cohesive study on internet trolls, which there are more than enough there.
They might have a $449 SKU, but if we're going to talk about the $349 price of the WiiU, it doesn't make sense to compare a Deluxe version to a Basic version.
Shin'en.