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The War Z: shady, misleading and false advertising.

R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
Parallacs said:
We all know this from watching the totalbiscuit video (though at that time it was a 1 hour timer).

The problem is that there is no attachment to the character.

1. I can spend time and give them a customized face and body. I can carefully come up with an awesome name. Do I start naming them XXXCloudXXX17, XXXCloudXXX18, BIG_RIG_BOB12?

2. Why would I want to revive a character if he loses all of his gear and experience doesn't mean anything.

These two extremes are the limbo this game is stuck in:

Either make it MMO, where gear, levels, name, repuatation, etc are all preserved on death.

Or make it survival. Once you die, create a new character instantly (DayZ).
Click to expand...

There's skill trees, you keep those skills when you die. Is just (as half of the game) isn't implemented yet.
 
J

JambiBum

Member
Relaxed Muscle said:
False advertising is not something that should take lightly.

And how many games were sold on steam that were on alpha? The game is clearly not in state of release with full of bugs and graphical options that dosn't work.

The game might be fun and functional, other question is if it deserves to be on the storefront seeing the actual state of the game and the false advertising.
Click to expand...

I didn't buy the game off of steam so I knew that it was in alpha right away. But I agree that they should have labeled it correctly for what it is right now. If they would have labeled it as a beta/"foundation release" then I don't think we would be seeing the backlash that we are right now.

It's not really full of bugs either. It used to be but they have done a decent job of taking care of the major ones and are now taking care of the small ones. Hacking isn't as persistent as it once was either but it does still exist in some cases. I didn't watch the entire TB video so I don't know if he ever turned the settings down to low but they definitely change the graphics from high to low. Playing on my laptop where I have to play on low is a huge difference than playing on my desktop where I play on Ultra.

They shouldn't have put it on steam yet but part of the reason they did so is that the community wanted them to sooner rather than later. The devs said that they were going to release it on steam and allow users who bought it from their website activate it on steam with a one time use code. People were really excited about this so they pushed it to get released and here we are. Now I'm not blaming the community for it getting released on steam the way it is but I imagine that the devs felt some pressure to do so earlier than intended. Or they did it right on time and fucked up the store page which ends up with where we are now.

The devs actions are weird and shady right now. I bought the game knowing full well what I was getting and still find it fun to play with friends. If their current actions lead to them fucking up the game then I'm going to stop playing. Or if the Day Z standalone ends up being loads better than War Z. Still waiting on that one though.
 
G

gutabo

Member
BiggNife said:
Not gonna lie, I would kind of love to sit on a meeting at this company

"Okay guys how are we going to lie to our customers today"
Click to expand...

I guess this is entirely possible.

ChosenPredator said:
not sure if this was posted but forbes is in on it now too

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...advertising-hound-the-war-z-release-on-steam/
Click to expand...

This is great. Can't wait to see the defense force turn this upside down somehow!

JambiBum said:
They shouldn't have put it on steam yet but part of the reason they did so is that the community wanted them to sooner rather than later. The devs said that they were going to release it on steam and allow users who bought it from their website activate it on steam with a one time use code. People were really excited about this so they pushed it to get released and here we are. Now I'm not blaming the community for it getting released on steam the way it is but I imagine that the devs felt some pressure to do so earlier than intended. Or they did it right on time and fucked up the store page which ends up with where we are now.
Click to expand...
Seems like you're missing some information here. With all the information we have I think we can safely infere that the game was released on steam only as a quick cash-in, if not a clear as day scam. There's no middle point here. Otherwise how can you explain the game getting listed after a "dayz" search when you know the publishers have full control of the keywords they choose to be listed on? Or releasing an unfinished alpha game with a 100% working marketplace for microtransactions?
 
G

Gully State

Member
So as a passing observer, I really thought War Z was Day Z in commercial form. That's some shady ass shit they have running over there...That Forbes article was great at summarizing everything...
 
S

Stuart444

Member
http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/how-big-war-zs-map

This was posted on the EG article comments section:

So we now know that The War Z only has one map, despite Hammerpoint having initially advertised multiple maps of between 100 and 400 square kilometres each. That's fine, a misunderstanding that's been corrected. The store page now correctly lists just one map, Colorado, though Hammerpoint still claim that it's 100 square kilometres in area. It certainly doesn't feel that big, so it's probably wise to check.

Would you like to know how big The War Z's map really is? 50 square kilometres? 75 square kilometres?

Around 10 square kilometres.
Click to expand...

Read the rest of the article to find out how they got at that size... also they have a picture of the playable area in Red.
 
R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
JambiBum said:
@RionaaM You can use up to 5 characters at once. If one of them dies you can just switch to another one. If all of them are still waiting on their timers then you can just delete a character, create a new one, and start playing again instantly.
Click to expand...
What if you only want to use your main character, or if you want to keep the current skills of all 5? They're forcing you to pay or wait. I don't like having to wait to play a game I already paid for. But I like paying to respawn even less.

This is something that doesn't benefit the player at all, in fact it screws him over: wait, pay or delete your character.
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
When I noticed they took the source engine from War Inc and just copied over it and then copied and pasted the TOS, it made me think the company was run by a bunch of 20 year olds or something
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Ugh...I've been worried about this since the middle of September when I saw something like in game death causes you to lose real world currency bought gear promoting real life muggings in the game itself. Then it just started getting weirder and shadier. Im just shaking my head now with no idea what to think. Total Biscuits playthrough had me in disbelief and cringing and then the studio's behavior kicked in.

Its no secret I dont like zombie games, but Im not against people getting to play something they were promised and looking forward to. Im really sorry for all those zombie fans that ended up burned by this. I wish you had gotten what you were promised. I wish the studio hadn't mislead you. And even though I want the industry to move past zombies in general I really hope you get the zombie game you were after sometime soon after this. No one deserves this.
 
G

gutabo

Member
I'll just post a question for the defense force: why release an incomplete alpha with a 100% working marketplace for microtransactions?
 
J

JambiBum

Member
RionaaM said:
What if you only want to use your main character, or if you want to keep the current skills of all 5? They're forcing you to pay or wait. I don't like having to wait to play a game I already paid for. But I like paying to respawn even less.

This is something that doesn't benefit the player at all, in fact it screws him over: wait, pay or delete your character.
Click to expand...
They added the timer originally to "make each life more valuable". I didn't mind the waiting when it was only an hour but four hours is pretty ridiculous. The thing is is that the new time was voted on by players in a survey. I voted to keep it at an hour and I have no idea why people would want it bumped to four. The only thing I can think of that would cause people to vote for 4 is that when you die most people will respawn another character and run to the spot where they died to try to get revenge. The 4 hour respawn timer does cut down on that from happening. Even if you delete a character to spawn a new one you usually can't get back to the spot you died in time because the game spawns new characters in safe zones.

@gutabo: What defense force are you talking about? I haven't really seen anyone defending the actions of the devs in any way. I happen to like the actual game so I continue to play it but I disagree completely with what has happened with the whole steam situation. The devs should just own up to their mistakes but I highly doubt they will. Most developers don't.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
gutabo said:
I'll just post a question for the defense force: why release an incomplete alpha with a 100% working marketplace for microtransactions?
Click to expand...

Money. Total Biscuit put it best when he brought up his missing bat. Paying money for in game items you can lose instantly because someone killed you because it spawned you all together on a 70km map. Bad combat, enemy placement, and gameplay geared to get you killed too quickly pretty much sums up the mentality was to force players spend as much as possible as often as possible. I mean getting killed in 4 hits by someone spawning into the game before you can see their model finish loading? Cmon...

I saw this as the mindset when the marketplace was mentioned for this type of game in September. I had a feeling players wouldnt actually enjoy this "feature" when they experienced their first mugging or cheap in game death to the computer that drained their wallets.

Stick with the Arma 2 mod Day Z folks. This game is trying to rip it off and failing in ways that are not only detrimental to the gameplay but to your wallet.
 
G

gutabo

Member
JambiBum said:
@gutabo: What defense force are you talking about? I haven't really seen anyone defending the actions of the devs in any way. I happen to like the actual game so I continue to play it but I disagree completely with what has happened with the whole steam situation. The devs should just own up to their mistakes but I highly doubt they will. Most developers don't.
Click to expand...

First of all, did I say you were in the defense force? nope, I just reposted a question I also made to you(which you didn't answer BTW) so there's no need to go all defensive. Second, yes, there are people defending the game and the developers, check the thread again(and the warz OT). More power to you if you enjoy the game for what it is, but "the whole steam situation" is not the only thing wrong with the game and its devs. And I don't think they will own up to their mistakes, mostly because I think they don't really see them as mistakes since they're making money out of them.

shaowebb said:
Honest answer
Click to expand...
I said "defense force", lol. You're obviously not a part of it.

legacyzero said:
Where is dubq when you need him? Thread needs balance :lol
Click to expand...

This thread has its own dubq, it's KKRT00.
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
It's crazy that people actually think War Z is a better game than the Day Z mod, which is admittedly a piece of shit in its own right.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
ChosenPredator said:
not sure if this was posted but forbes is in on it now too

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...advertising-hound-the-war-z-release-on-steam/
Click to expand...
Didn't know about this:

Many people are criticizing Valve for what is obviously an unfinished product showing up in their store. The problem appears to be a simple one. Because the game’s publisher had a game on Steam previously, their new titles can skip the review process, giving The War Z a free pass through the back door.
Click to expand...

Explains a lot.
 
G

gutabo

Member
KKRT00 said:
First of all, who the hell is dubq? And who's in defense force? I havent seen even one post defending the devs behavior. And when You answer please also link the post where they defend them.
Click to expand...

Check the WarZ OT for some dubq goodness. So you think the game's a scam and the devs are professional thieves? Great! We're all on the same page then :D
 
P

Parallacs

Member
Stuart444 said:
http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/how-big-war-zs-map

This was posted on the EG article comments section:



Read the rest of the article to find out how they got at that size... also they have a picture of the playable area in Red.
Click to expand...

I was saying this morning that there is little chance the game would be removed from the steam store. This is by far the most serious lie revealed. I can't see valve ignoring this if it is in fact true.

Also, can you imagine 100 or 200 people being crammed into 10km^2? No wonder he was acting so strangely in the gamespy interview.
 
Q

Queen of Hunting

Unconfirmed Member
Blizzard are false advertising too on the back if diablo 3 case it mentions pvp which isn't in the game
 
J

JambiBum

Member
gutabo said:
First of all, did I say you were in the defense force? nope, I just reposted a question I also made to you(which you didn't answer BTW) so there's no need to go all defensive. Second, yes, there are people defending the game and the developers, check the thread again(and the warz OT). More power to you if you enjoy the game for what it is, but "the whole steam situation" is not the only thing wrong with the game and its devs. And I don't think they will own up to their mistakes, mostly because I think they don't really see them as mistakes since they're making money out of them.
Click to expand...

I didn't think that you meant me. I was just curious as to whom you thought was a part of it. If you posted the question (I assume you mean the one about micros) to me specifically, I didn't see it until you asked the defense force which is why I didn't answer. I have no real answer for it except money. At first the marketplace had problems which people were pissed off about so they fixed it and now it works as intended. I don't mind the marketplace because this is one game that you don't actually have to use it to gain an advantage in. Everything in the market you can find in game. If that wasn't the case then I would have a huge problem with it.

I look at the market almost the same way as I look at Dota 2. You can find the items in the market through drops in games or you can just buy them outright. Dota has been in beta forever and it also had a pay wall to get in. Dota is also a hell of a lot more polished right now. Note that I'm not comparing the actual quality of the games, just the way their marketplaces and beta setups have worked.
 
G

gutabo

Member
JambiBum said:
I don't mind the marketplace because this is one game that you don't actually have to use it to gain an advantage in. Everything in the market you can find in game. If that wasn't the case then I would have a huge problem with it.
Click to expand...

So if a guy(with low health and no ammo) you were fighting against logs out, buys food on the marketplace to get his health back (and since he's already there, some ammo too), comes back to the server and kills you there's not an issue there for you?
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
Dota 2's market is entirely cosmetic outside of battlepoint boosts, which don't mean anything and affect everyone in the game when used.
 
K

KKRT00

Member
gutabo said:
Check the WarZ OT for some dubq goodness. So you think the game's a scam and the devs are professional thieves? Great! We're all on the same page then :D
Click to expand...

So where is that defense force You were talking about? It does exist or not?

And yes i think that Steam page description is a scam, it should be labeled not even as Beta, but as an early Beta or even late alpha, because it lacks fundamental features like HC mode, stash or private servers. I dont mind that devs want to sell beta, more should do it, but it should be labeled that way.
But i also dont think they should get accused about features that are actually good, like casual mode = normal, or meaningless microtransactions like respawns, or getting shit on because they allow for full drop and that includes microtransaction items.
I think that is actually very good implementation, because it allows to care for Your character more and trade looted special stuff with players in hubs, in future at least ;p
Without full drop it would be pay to win, and with current implementation it is not, and i really wish that Rocket would implement something similar, because its just additional revenue for devs that does not debalance gameplay. I also think that Rocket should implement Normal mode like WarZ, it would not only bring new, more 'casual' players to the game, but also help HC servers to have more mature community. Do You guys remember how better DayZ was when it was still a niche title?
I'm also happy that WarZ exists, because even if it does not affect DayZ now, it will in future in some degree and competition is always good for consumers.
 
S

syko de4d

Member
there is no scam Z in my steam anymore?`First it was still on place 1 but without a price and a buy button and now it is out of the Top Seller list.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
ashley678 said:
Blizzard are false advertising too on the back if diablo 3 case it mentions pvp which isn't in the game
Click to expand...

I checked my box just now and it does not mention PVP on the back, nor is it mentioned in the fold-out. The auction house is mentioned, though, and that took a couple of weeks after launch.
 
eot

eot

Banned
It's amazing how they even stole the term "Foundation Release" from Rocket. They just want maximum marketplace confusion.
 
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