Support NeoGAF

[thuway]

So what. Let these boxes be big and hungry so I say!

In order for there to even be a next-generation, these companies need to profit. Reliability has become absolute shit because console manufacturers targeted 200 watts this generation. RROD, YLOD, Bluray drive issues, DVDs being scratched. This is an effort to improve reliability, offer a huge jump in visuals, and price at sane levels.

This is healthier for the industry as a whole, but if you want that 500 watt monster, go buy a gaming PC- console gaming is not for oyu.

 

[Reiko]

Yes, for the reason of wowing you with their graphical spectacle. Seek out Oblivion's trailers from E3 2005 and then compare it to the 360 version released one year later. You'll see all manners of effects and detail that never made it to the final version. They're demonstrating the game on a high-end card to get you hyped.

And to push Microsoft and Sony to get into the 680 ballpark since the specs were weaker in 2012.

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm just looking forward to these machines been released so we can get a decent across the board bump for all game graphics.

Which will filter across to PCs; as developers are able to defray development costs across 3 platforms.

And I'll enjoy those games in Rift mode. And if they don't support rift, then fuck them. Let them play with their babby toys.

 

[Mascot]

With both consoles launching the same time and most likely with he exact same multi-plats then it won't be long to see which is the more powerful or easiest for third party devs to get access to the power.

Come off it. We'll still be arguing whether PS4's special sauce is more salty than Durango's wizard jizz five years from now. It's what keeps us from getting bored.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

they must go with PS4. that there by itself is great marketing already. People who don't follow gaming will go "O PS4 is out, cool". Otherwise it will end up like Vita. There are people still thinking PSP2 is going to get released soon. My older brother who has been gaming for 20 years, but doesn't follow gaming news, doesn't read sites...had no idea what Vita is, or that it is a PSP successor.

Everything other then PS4 is a disaster, which is what is going to happen because Sony likes to shoot themselves in the foot.

Now if Sony was willing to invest 100s of millions of USD (like MS) to reeducate people, than they could take a risk with a new name.

Not they don´t unless they want to totally lose Japan. Besides Apple did it with the new Ipad. Sony can keep Playstation and give it a name instead of a number.

 

[Anth0ny]

Anyone expecting this to be priced at more than $499?

Less?

 

[Buzzati]

Will we see any gameplay footage (tech demos?) by E3, or is this unlikely.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Anyone expecting this to be priced at more than $499?

Less?

Definitely won't be more than $450. I'm guessing both will aim for $399-449 range

 

[thuway]

The more you guys talk about Jaguar, the more depressing this thread gets. I'd imagine some dev from 4A Games declare what an underwhelming piece of *&(% it is. I wonder how much better it is than the WiiU's cpu now...

The Cell and Xenos were rarely tapped out during this generation. Machines are GPU and RAM limited. The CPU should be the least of your concerns.

 

[Anth0ny]

Definitely won't be more than $450. I'm guessing both will aim for $399-449 range

If this or 720 is $399

and Wii U is still chillin at $349


fuuuuuuuuuuck

 

[Reiko]

Will we see any gameplay footage (tech demos?) by E3, or is this unlikely.

For Durango, yes. For Orbis... I have no idea yet...

I'm sure Polyphony Digital is cooking up something really nice.

 

[Ashes]

Anyone expecting this to be priced at more than $499?

Less?

I think this will cost £299 to make, and Sony will sell for £315 and £399. But I think I'm alone in that regard.

Edit: oh yeah Sony now have a controller with a screen on it, so add a bit more I guess.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Will we see any gameplay footage (tech demos?) by E3, or is this unlikely.

Rumors suggest that both consoles will be announced before E3. So we should see something when that happens.

 

[Buzzati]

For Durango, yes. For Orbis... I have no idea yet...

I'm sure Polyphony Digital is cooking up something really nice.

Hype!

 

[B.O.O.M]

For Durango, yes. For Orbis... I have no idea yet...

I'm sure Polyphony Digital is cooking up something really nice.

I feel the exact opposite. So many devs of SOny have been silent for years and years now. I'm sure they will have plenty to show.

Not sure about MS. 343 just got done with Halo 4 last year. So I guess that leaves Turn 10 and Lionhead to wow us

If this or 720 is $399

and Wii U is still chillin at $349


fuuuuuuuuuuck

I think a lot will depend on the controller. I mean the controller is what's really driving up the wiiu price. This is part of the reason why I hope Orbis controller does not have a screen built into it

 

[Globox_82]

I feel the exact opposite. So many devs of SOny have been silent for years and years now. I'm sure they will have plenty to show.

Not sure about MS. 343 just got done with Halo 4 last year. So I guess that leaves Turn 10 and Lionhead to wow us



I think a lot will depend on the controller. I mean the controller is what's really driving up the wiiu price. This is part of the reason why I hope Orbis controller does not have a screen built into it

3rd party is probably more behind MS, and they make 95% of all games. So you are going to see huge support and those tech demos will come from them at first.

 

[alexandros]

Judging by the history of the games released for all the 3D consoles to this day and trend of significant observable visual upgrade the titles received from the launch to twilight year, your scepticism is unwarranted.

It isn't. We're talking about x86 CPUs and AMD cards here, there's no learning curve or familiarization period for devs. Most of them have been coding on x86 all their life, they know how to get the most out of them. It's reasonable to assume that the gap between early-gen and late-gen games will be smaller.

Then how come GTA,Assasian creed , witcher 2 etc all minimum PC requirement is way more than the final spec of 360/ps3?

Seriously? Shoddy porting in the case of the first two, vastly higher graphical fidelity in the case of Witcher 2.

Ignoring the Valve bollocks (it is bollocks).

And why is that?

 

[thuway]

Anyone expecting this to be priced at more than $499?

Less?

I predict $399 starting.

 

[Globox_82]

I predict $399 starting.

399-449$ two skus

 

[Ashes]

But I'd love it if they had a subscription based subsidisation: £179 with psn plus. Next gen 24 month contract, £7.99 a month.

 

[B.O.O.M]

3rd party is probably more behind MS, and they make 95% of all games. So you are going to see huge support and those tech demos will come from them at first.

Western 3rd parties? Sure. Not the Jp ones though (but they will be saved for TGS) Even the western 3rd parties would be more even in their support I think, outside of few games that MS will be funding (sony will too I think) there will be some exclusive titles for both systems from the major 3rd parties. I wouldn't be surprised if Ubi comes out with different exclusives for both systems during E3 given how well they supported the wiiu. And EA is seemingly in a real good relationship with Sony too so who knows.

 

[rdrr gnr]

$99
$399
$499

 

[SneakyStephan]

What do you mean Twitch is properly integrated? I'm not saying that you can't upload videos, I'm saying that having this type of thing integrated into a console's OS and done seamlessly (to Facebook, for instance) would carry a lot of traction. The point is that it wouldn't be 1% anymore (I'm sure it's a whole lot less for console players), it would be common. Then when high-schooler Trevor presses the button to upload his "awesome" COD video where something "random" happened all of his little friends see it on Facebook with a big Xbox logo.

And you as gamer would want this to happen why? What is there to gain for us from shitting up youtube some more? Or are you trying to be a backseat pseudo marketer again?

 

[Ponn]

3rd party is probably more behind MS, and they make 95% of all games. So you are going to see huge support and those tech demos will come from them at first.

From those leaked memos or docs they have Bungies next game locked as a timed exclusive. Im positive that will be there big megaton with 720 at E3.

 

[StevieP]

But I'd love it if they had a subscription based subsidisation: £179 with psn plus. Next gen 24 month contract, £7.99 a month.

Interesting. Would you consider buying a console from your cable company/telco?

 

[Dion Blaster]

So are these basically just Wii U 1.5's?

 

[StevieP]

So are these basically just Wii U 1.5's?

No. While the philosophy is similar on paper, they both have more juice than the Wii u. The laws of physics and thermodynamics never lie. 40w vs 100+

 

[Foil]

So are these basically just Wii U 1.5's?

Err, no.

 

[pieatorium]

Err, no.

Hes been saying the same kind of stuff before in the thread

Apparently it looks like Xbox vs Dreamcast.

 

[Vol5]

So are these basically just Wii U 1.5's?

Absolutely, tell all your friends.

 

[Sid]

So are these basically just Wii U 1.5's?

No,the WIIU is just PS4.5

 

[iamshadowlark]

So are these basically just Wii U 1.5's?

Why do you keep posting stuff like this?

 

[Ashes]

Interesting. Would you consider buying a console from your cable company/telco?

Broadband? Er probably for less though. Like others suggest £99... For Americans it would be $99

Cause it kind of makes you feel like you just bought a next gen console for £99

Actually, I got the x360 elite as a 'free' gift with my phone contract way back. That was £30 monthly 24month smartphone contract. So I've already done so.

 

[SneakyStephan]

One thing that's especially nice about specs like these is how there are several big improvements that'll be able to go into next gen games with barely any performance hit. It should be able to take 16x AF with almost no performance hit, tessellation is on it's own part of the GPU and will be pretty solid if it's a 2013 tessellator, and a good post process AA like SMAA will cost essentially nothing (although I'd like to see it combined with a bit of MSAA).

Are we really getting excited about Anisotropic filtering (welcome to 2003?) and blurry pseudo post process AA now? (that at least half of gaf despises to no end).

Jesus christ. Lowered expectations doesn't even begin to cover it anymore.

 

[darkistheway]

No. While the philosophy is similar on paper, they both have more juice than the Wii u. The laws of physics and thermodynamics never lie. 40w vs 100+

40w vs 100w? So Wii U 2.5 then... let the downports rain upon us!

 

[michaelius]

40w vs 100w? So Wii U 2.5 then... let the downports rain upon us!

Can't wait for DF Wii U vs Orbis/Durango versions comparisions

 

[Putty]

I'm a game audio developer, and I have friends in pretty high places, but nothing at all is leaving their lips for one reason or another. I do get the sense that very shortly everything will be out in the wild. As a games player I simply cannot wait!

 

[DBT85]

Interesting. Would you consider buying a console from your cable company/telco?

It's unlikly they would have integrated services with the PS4. But a PS4 with a price of £99 and a monthly sub of £10-15 for 2 years? That could do well and get it into more homes earlier as a massive initial outlay is gone.

 

[Reiko]

Are we really getting excited about Anisotropic filtering (welcome to 2003?) and blurry pseudo post process AA now? (that at least half of gaf despises to no end).

Jesus christ. Lowered expectations doesn't even begin to cover it anymore.

While you've been enjoying 16xAF on PC...

There hasn't been excellent AF in these consoles and arcade hardware:

Model 2
Model 3
Sega Dreamcast
PS2
Gamecube
Xbox
Xbox 360
Wii
Wii U
PS3
Naomi 2
Lindbergh
RingEdge

I know huh? It's never really been a priority for years...

 

[StevieP]

40w vs 100w? So Wii U 2.5 then... let the downports rain upon us!

I said 100+ (distinction). As I said, despite some similarities (little CPU bigger GPU) the Wii u still has a hardware deficiency. And a memory one too. A 60 or 100 watt difference in the world of physics is a pretty large difference in terms of percentage.

While downports are not utterly impossible in many cases like they often were with Wii, there would still be considerable challenge.

The first one being the ROI issue that is currently leading western publishers' bean counters not to give a shit (and pigeonholing the perceived audience to an extent).

 

[Ninja Moomin]

I think this will cost £299 to make, and Sony will sell for £315 and £399. But I think I'm alone in that regard.

Edit: oh yeah Sony now have a controller with a screen on it, so add a bit more I guess.

more than £299 in the current UK economy is going to be a tough sell.... it guess they could try and keep current gen at the £249+bundle level to justify a £349 price range, but personally i think over 300 for the base hardware would be a mistake.

 

[mrklaw]

How would they get screwed over? Right now games are starting to use four cores. Intel's top chip would cover that base and then some. Right now the cpus are under utilised or not optimised for.
Heck Intel is so far ahead, they deliberately don't sell an 8 core, with two cores disabled. The moment Amd fights back all they would have to do is to reenable those cores.

Yes for all you power PC gamers, you should consider this good news. It might mean intel releases a proper octo core CPU.

Although I can't help thinking at some point the PCI bus becomes a limitation

"In order to boost clock-speed by 10% compared to today's Bobcat-powered chips, Jaguar micro-architecture features longer pipeline"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20120904201534_AMD_Discloses_Peculiarities_of_Next_Generation_Jaguar_Micro_Architecture.html

has something happened since september?



as i explained on the previous page, that would take some masterfully terrible programming given that it would take all 8 cores perfectly optimized at 100% load to even scrape half of what a mid range i5 can do. i'm convinced there will be a couple of pieces of custom silicon to ease some of the heavy lifting for specific gaming related tasks, but all told it should be comfortable within an i5's remit.

Both systems having a CPU on the same die or package as the GPUnwill have big latency and bandwidth advantages. Consoles optimised for that level of speed between CPU and GPU might be challenging for a PC that has to communicate over a PCI bus between CPU and GPU

 

[shinra-bansho]

I still expect $399 as a price ceiling. $499 simply isn't viable in the marketplace.

It would amuse me if one ended up starting at $349. I can't fathom how the Wii U could be sold at a loss beyond exchange rates, poor supplier negotiation and unusually favorable retailer margins. And I think such pricing coupled with $599 in the past has distorted expectations.

 

[Perkel]

Are we really getting excited about Anisotropic filtering (welcome to 2003?) and blurry pseudo post process AA now? (that at least half of gaf despises to no end).

Jesus christ. Lowered expectations doesn't even begin to cover it anymore.

Msaa is still resource hog and it's a problem.

If anything mlaa from gow 3 should be standard. It menaged to get GoW3 clean and was very fast.

 

[SneakyStephan]

The Cell and Xenos were rarely tapped out during this generation. Machines are GPU and RAM limited. The CPU should be the least of your concerns.

Try to run planetside 2 on anything but a high end cpu and say that again.
Or natural selection 2, or 64 player maps in bf3, or world of tanks, or any of the random mmos, or hawken , or...

Any game on pc that has more going on that some pathetic corridor shooter maquette gameworld requires a massive amount of cpu grunt.

Look at ns2... normal 90s shooter sized multiplayer maps but with a ton of dynamic elements like the infestation and a crapload of AI entities for macs and turrets and whips etc etc. Even the UI takes up a ton of resources.
Guess you'd be happy to settle for never seeing anything like this (excellent game ) on the next gen consoles.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Are you referring solely to the difference in CPUs?

IIRC, someone (Durante?) calculated that in terms of floating point performance the Wii U CPU was around 15 Gflops; while the Jaguar cores are 12.8 Gflops per core?

Not sure how they compare with regard to other metrics.

How do we already know this? Isn't the Jaguar version thats in the next gen consoles still unreleased? I thought they were using a new updated 2013 version of Jaguar? I remember reading on here that the updated Jaguar cores would be receiving a bigger update then your regular normal yearly updated revision.

edit: Pretty sure im basing this off of some jeff_rigby posts where he linked a bunch of slides showing AMD's roadmap and what not lol.

 

[mrklaw]

The gulf in computing power between an i7 paired with a 680 vs 8 jaguars with an under clocked Pitcairn would preclude that you shouldn't maintain confidence that very high end games would retain a full 1080p resolution.


.

The rumours that developers are being told to consider Durango as 680 level power would suggest the opposite though. Lower CPU sure, but demos are primarily graphical and much more dependent on GPU anyway

 

[StevieP]

I still expect $399 as a price ceiling. $499 simply isn't viable in the marketplace.

It would amuse me if one ended up starting at $349. I can't fathom how the Wii U could be sold at a loss beyond exchange rates, poor supplier negotiation and unusually favorable retailer margins. And I think such pricing coupled with $599 in the past has distorted expectations.

It starts with a more expensive controller and the fact that despite the negativity it has, overall, more juice than the 7th gen hd consoles. A look at the prices and the lack of further shrinkage and retailer-rebate-based cost resuction strategies of the current gen HD consoles should tell you something as well.

 

[Reiko]

Msaa is still resource hog and it's a problem.

If anything mlaa from gow 3 should be standard. It menaged to get GoW3 clean and was very fast.

You can count out that variation of MLAA...

Unless there is a Cell in PS4.

 

[Ashes]

Would raise a wry smile if they call the jaguar based 8core processor, i8.

Spoiler

They won't do it. Even if they call it the smartest processor on the market or some shtick like that.