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[Rentahamster]

Now, I have a street and an avenue connecting the residential to the industry. The shortest and most direct route is the street, while the avenue is longer distance wise but faster to travel time wise. Now in Simcity 5 all of the traffic would ignore the avenue completely. Lets see what happens in Simcity 4:



Now I ask you, which game's traffic model is more realistic? And are they both the same?

Did you do that using NAM? NAM changed the traffic rules to be quickest path, instead of shortest distance.

 

[Rentahamster]

That's the point really. Sim City 4 simulated the multiple-city-interconnectivity just fine - and offline. Great Works are basically not much different, just a few numbers getting exchanged between cities.

The funny thing is that SimCity4 did multiplayer fine, too. Just use a shared Dropbox folder as everyone's shared region save folder.

Lucy's message is such a huge joke.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

The funny thing is that SimCity4 did multiplayer fine, too. Just use a shared Dropbox folder as everyone's shared region save folder.

Lucy's message is such a huge joke.

Why don't you use multi-quote? Just curious.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

And a new article on RPS about offline mode by the hacker/modder who found out to the debug mode. Glorious just glorious!



Link

Bwahahahaha this is amazing.

Time for another round of hilarious EA PR!

 

[Rentahamster]

Why don't you use multi-quote? Just curious.

That would have been one huge post, and kind of a nightmare and a pain in the ass for someone to quote it and then delete the parts that aren't relevant to them.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The analogy is that we notice the programming shortcuts much more than before since the simulation engine has increased in "realism/complexity". Just like how the flaws in a CG animation are much more unsettling in a "lifelike" character more than a cartoon.

The stupid pathfinding wouldn't bother us so much in SC5 if we didn't have to see the sims play out their stupid pathfinding routines in front of our eyes, rather than us making it up in our heads.

And yes, the PR was an incredible disaster, and still continues to be. That was a separate point.

Complexity maybe (and even that seems debatable from reading some of these posts, but I'll leave that to people who know their A* algorithm from their D*), however clearly complexity != realism. It's not unsettling to watch laughably unrealistic herd-like behaviour in the sims. And that's why I disagree that the uncanny valley is relevant here.

It's more akin to watching a shadow puppet theatre, and then watching it again but you can see the puppeteers hands behind the screen. It's certainly not any more realistic, and it's now clear how the effect was produced. I don't think anyone's been unsettled by the visual implementation of SC5 (i.e. that it is scarily realistic).

 

[Riggs]

Dude ... upgrade Pasco to member, now.

Bravo.

Gies is literally becoming the embodiment of everything that is wrong with games journalism.

Does anyone else think he moonlites as an underground rapper by the way? He can't take criticism at all and is inherently hostile, also cannot admit when he is wrong it seems. I bet he is a rapper!!! Sorry for that horrible analogy.

 

[Septimius]

Stick a freight depot in your industrial area. They will deliver it to that instead. Or a Vu Tower. Or an airport with a cargo hold. Freight is stupid in this game as it only applies to industrial, and it has no bearing whatsoever on anything else, despite what the game might have you believe.


That's the point. Nobody gave a shit when you couldn't see where the sims are actually going in previous simcity games. Still nobody gave a shit when you could only see an arrow, and most people didn't even make the connection that sims' jobs weren't permanent in that game either.

Now that the game engine has increased in complexity, it's actually much more obvious to us know how stupid the pathfinding is because we can actually follow them around now.

Yeah, figured out the freight depot. I was like "whaaat" when I realised cargo just magically appeared in commercial district with one.

The distinction, though, and I'm merely friendly being pedantic about this, is that uncanny valley is when realism feels to drop off when things become more complex. Whereas in SimCity, realism got thrown out of window for more complexity The system was better before, now it's full of weird bugs.

 

[ebullientprism]

That RPS article is well worth reading in full.

Also -

A series of tweets from, Erik Reynolds, “senior director of worldwide communications” (but apparently not mathematics), explained that he was going to be “1000% clear”.

LOL.

 

[Riggs]

That RPS article is well worth reading in full.

Also -



LOL.

When 100% is not enough, you go for the fucking gold.

 

[Rentahamster]

Complexity maybe (and even that seems debatable from reading some of these posts, but I'll leave that to people who know their A* algorithm from their D*), however clearly complexity != realism. It's not unsettling to watch laughably unrealistic herd-like behaviour in the sims. And that's why I disagree that the uncanny valley is relevant here.

It's more akin to watching a shadow puppet theatre, and then watching it again but you can see the puppeteers hands behind the screen. It's certainly not any more realistic, and it's now clear how the effect was produced. I don't think anyone's been unsettled by the visual implementation of SC5 (i.e. that it is scarily realistic).

Yeah, figured out the freight depot. I was like "whaaat" when I realised cargo just magically appeared in commercial district with one.

The distinction, though, and I'm merely friendly being pedantic about this, is that uncanny valley is when realism feels to drop off when things become more complex. Whereas in SimCity, realism got thrown out of window for more complexity The system was better before, now it's full of weird bugs.

Yeah, I don't mean it strictly relating the creepiness factor. The main point I'm trying to make is that as the game evolves towards a more realistic model, the flaws in the 'realism" are more apparent to us, since we see it with our own eyes.

SC5 is a more complex game than SC4, as far as the simulation engine is concerned, and there are more things that bother us in SC5 that didn't in SC4 just because we see them play out in real time.

From SC1 to SC4 the game engine increased in complexity, and we accepted the simulation for what it was. From SC4 to SC5, the game engine increased in complexity again, still contained similar workings and concepts from the past games, yet it's jarring to us since the stuff that was unseen to the players' eyes in previous titles is being playout out in front of us.

 

[FINALBOSS]

This is what I mean. The sims in SimCity 4 only have "jobs" until the game recalculates the route again. Just like the sims in SimCity 5 only have "jobs" until the game recalculates the route again. It doesn't really make a difference that it happens less frequently in SC4 than in SC5. The sims' employment is irrelevant in both games since it is renewed every recalculation.

This goes to my further point of plausible acceptability since in our minds, we see the imaginary sims of SC4 going to work, and in our minds, it's not that noticeable that they change employment all the time since there's a longer stretch of "game time" in between calculations. This is contrary to the SC4 manual *ir maybe it was the strategy guide) that said that the sims remember their employment until they get fired or find something better.



But this is where SC4's traffic gets unrealistic. The roads can never slow down past 30% overcapacity, so in essence, that makes roads have unlimited capacity. There is a cap on how bad traffic jams can get.

...The point is the Sims in SC4 go to the same job every day (until recalculation since you like to point that out). The Sims in SC5 go to the nearest available job.

 

[Seik]

Perfect! XD

 

[Rebel Leader]

...The point is the Sims in SC4 go to the same job every day (until recalculation since you like to point that out). The Sims in SC5 go to the nearest available job.

and nearest available home

 

[Rentahamster]

...The point is the Sims in SC4 go to the same job every day (until recalculation since you like to point that out). The Sims in SC5 go to the nearest available job.

They go, to a different job every calculation, yes. The frequency of the recalculation is moot.

SC4 sims use nearest job pathing too.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

and there, but for a moment, a million happy sims in an awful slum with no jobs

They must have mega city 1 sexmeks keeping them busy.

 

[FINALBOSS]

They go, to a different job every calculation, yes. The frequency of the recalculation is moot.

SC4 sims use nearest job pathing too.

The frequency of recalculation is everything though--not moot. The frequency in SC4 is every few months or so (and if the roads don't change/building demolished/out of business, they still go to the same job)--kinda like real life, no? The frequency in SC5 is non-stop. There's a gigantic difference there and it's very far from moot.

 

[Rentahamster]

The frequency of recalculation is everything though--not moot. The frequency in SC4 is every few months or so (and if the roads don't change/building demolished/out of business, they still go to the same job)--kinda like real life, no? The frequency in SC5 is non-stop. There's a gigantic difference there and it's very far from moot.

The infrequency of recalculation in SC4 is there so that it didn't bog down 2003 CPUs to hell. It's not there for any nod towards realism. Whenever a new recalculation is done, it's as if the previous calculation didn't exist at all, so everything is renewed. That's not kinda like real life.

It's just more acceptable to you, because, as in my previous points about the nature of simulations and acceptability to human brains, is that there is an inherent software/hardware limitation that is making the simulation run a particular way, and your brain is filling in the rest of the blanks with a plausible scenario for this to occur, because the game isn't complex enough to provide any direct evidence to contradict the scenario in your head.

In SimCity 5, the entire illusion breaks down in front of our eyes, because our preconceived notions of what's going on "under the hood" that made sense to us in previous games is shattered when we see actual cars drive in stupid patterns right in front of our eyes and our brains can't reconcile the differences in logic.

 

[3rdamention]

Gies is from Polygon right? I thought they created that site so they could do everything right....I thought they were different, they were a site for gamers....Why does Gies want to twitter fight with people and defend everything about this game which he clearly doesnt know as much about as he asks?

He isnt doing anything positive for their site other than showing me that Polygon has a huge toolbox in the log pile and I dont want to visit a site with an asshole like this working for them.....well.....their design sucks too but thats another issue....

 

[BolognaSoup]

This looks so unnatural.

Too bad they took out the terraforming and made most of the map unusable.

It really does look absolutely ridiculous. I mean who at Maxis looked at those arbitrary borders and thought "Yeah that's cool just like that!"

 

[TheYanger]

The infrequency of recalculation in SC4 is there so that it didn't bog down 2003 CPUs to hell. It's not there for any nod towards realism. Whenever a new recalculation is done, it's as if the previous calculation didn't exist at all, so everything is renewed. That's not kinda like real life.

It's just more acceptable to you, because, as in my previous points about the nature of simulations and acceptability to human brains, is that there is an inherent software/hardware limitation that is making the simulation run a particular way, and your brain is filling in the rest of the blanks with a plausible scenario for this to occur, because the game isn't complex enough to provide any direct evidence to contradict the scenario in your head.

In SimCity 5, the entire illusion breaks down in front of our eyes, because our preconceived notions of what's going on "under the hood" that made sense to us in previous games is shattered when we see actual cars drive in stupid patterns right in front of our eyes and our brains can't reconcile the differences in logic.

Whether they did it as a nod toward realism or not is irrelevant - the SC5 version is LESS believable than the SC4 version, which considering they use the same methodology is absolutely ridiculous and lazy. Your argument that that makes it not different is silly. Perception is everything.

 

[BolognaSoup]

Witness the revolution happening at Polygon. I mean, who else holds their readers in such high regard? I can't believe any business allows an employee to behave this like in public.

Don't take their feedback and see how you might learn and improve from it, just say "fuck you."

 

[Neuromancer]

Witness the revolution happening at Polygon. I mean, who else holds their readers in such high regard? I can't believe any business allows an employee to behave this like in public.

Don't take their feedback and see how you might learn and improve from it, just say "fuck you."

He's backed himself into a corner, his only option is to lash out and seek support from his buddies. Obviously apologizing and admitting a mistake is just not possible.

 

[Sky Chief]

If integrity breeds consternation then he has nothing to worry about

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I hope he doesn't stop doing it. It's entertaining as hell.

 

[Professor Beef]

I hope he doesn't stop doing it. It's entertaining as hell.

I hope he does stop. He's giving the profession a bad look...well, a worse one.

 

[xelios]

That douche deserves to have his image (lol) and career thoroughly ruined, and he's definitely on the right track. Keep on truckin' man, don't let being wrong stop ya.

 

[sykoex]

Witness the revolution happening at Polygon. I mean, who else holds their readers in such high regard? I can't believe any business allows an employee to behave this like in public.

Don't take their feedback and see how you might learn and improve from it, just say "fuck you."

http://i.imgur.com/PDJ8AyE.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
Wait so then Matt Chandronait condones the stuff EA and Maxis has been doing? Weird. Or maybe he's just addressing the people who've been especially vitriolic towards Arthur.

 

[Rentahamster]

Whether they did it as a nod toward realism or not is irrelevant - the SC5 version is LESS believable than the SC4 version, which considering they use the same methodology is absolutely ridiculous and lazy. Your argument that that makes it not different is silly. Perception is everything.

Part of my argument IS that perception is everything.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

and there, but for a moment, a million happy sims in an awful slum with no jobs

The New Walled City, indeed.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Witness the revolution happening at Polygon. I mean, who else holds their readers in such high regard? I can't believe any business allows an employee to behave this like in public.

Don't take their feedback and see how you might learn and improve from it, just say "fuck you."

It was obvious yesterday that he is just trollin folks now.

 

[Jake Tower]

Why, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

 

[BolognaSoup]

That douche deserves to have his image (lol) and career thoroughly ruined, and he's definitely on the right track. Keep on truckin' man, don't let being wrong stop ya.

The craziest part is that Maxis is basically proven to have lied TO Polygon about server computations since that RPS article, and he continues to defend them.

 

[G_Berry]

OMG how big is this latest patch? it's taking forever to download!

 

[orznge]

Witness the revolution happening at Polygon. I mean, who else holds their readers in such high regard? I can't believe any business allows an employee to behave this like in public.

Don't take their feedback and see how you might learn and improve from it, just say "fuck you."

lol I hope he loses his job and is subject to financial ruin

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Gies...

 

[Boss Doggie]

It's a damn shame because the game looks really fun.

That I disagree. With terrible simulation, really held back gameplay features, and all other problems, even without the "DRM" the game definitely is lackluster compared to 3000 and 4.

 

[Lint21]

If integrity breeds consternation then he has nothing to worry about

Now that's some funny shit right there.

 

[CrankyKong]

Who is Arthur Gies and what did he do?

 

[web01]

Who is Arthur Gies and what did he do?

EA corporate lapdog extraordinaire.

 

[mavs]

Who is Arthur Gies and what did he do?

Do? Nothing.

 

[mattiewheels]

lol I hope he loses his job and is subject to financial ruin

Why is demonizing people neogaf's favorite hobby lately?

Gies decided to troll people, as he is wont to, but his logic isn't completely wrong. So he's the worst example of games writing then? I just think seeing people as characitures is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Why is demonizing people neogaf's favorite hobby lately?

Gies decided to troll people, as he is wont to, but his logic isn't completely wrong. So he's the worst example of games writing then? I just think seeing people as characitures is the wrong way to go about it.

Agreed. Wishing harm for him is too far. He didn't do shit that will directly affect anyone here. Guy is a troll. Stop giving him the attention he craves. Wishing ruin for him is just ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

lol I hope he loses his job and is subject to financial ruin

Hey, hey, hey. Now that's crossing the line by a mile. We can try and counter him on his points but wanting to ruin his life is no joke. It's just videogames for God's sake, not politics or some life changing topic.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

That douche deserves to have his image (lol) and career thoroughly ruined, and he's definitely on the right track. Keep on truckin' man, don't let being wrong stop ya.

lol I hope he loses his job and is subject to financial ruin

I hope he dies and burns in hell.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Man he really wants to work for EA.

 

[border]

Is the offline mod actually downloadable and usable for everyone?

Can you save your game with it? I thought SimCity was only doing cloud saves.

 

[notoriousKTR]

Is the offline mod actually downloadable and usable for everyone?

Yes.

Can you save your game with it? I thought SimCity was only doing cloud saves.

No.

 

[orznge]

Hey, hey, hey. Now that's crossing the line by a mile. We can try and counter him on his points but wanting to ruin his life is no joke. It's just videogames for God's sake, not politics or some life changing topic.

ahah wow thank god I'm in the clear with regards to your online moral code; I made a flippant comment prefaced by "lol", hardly a palpable attempt to ruin someone's life

 

[orznge]

banned gaming article site.com/234878343-Gaming-"Journalist"-Has-His-Life-Ruined-By-Single-Mean-NeoGAF-Post