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[Wrestlemania]

It's none of their business. It's a private party and the guy can do whatever he wants.

People are also entirely free to comment and criticise the actions of people, even if they are at a private event.
I don't understand why this is a line which somehow completely shuts down the need for any discussion on the matter.

 

[Perkel]

yeah,sure these black fedoras are pussy magnets

$ 200 000 000 a year is ultimate pussy magnet.

 

[Amneisac]

Since we are speaking about escorts and not strippers here how is hiring some girls which you wouldn't know are hired offensive ?

I guess it isn't offensive until you realize that they were hired, and then you have to question the motivation.

Edit to add: I have tried to stipulate a few times after my posts that I am not only addressing this specific situation as much as I am addressing a lot of the generic arguments being thrown around about hiring women to 'be pretty or dance' at a corporate sponsored event.

 

[Foxtastical]

Man, those pictures are fucking awkward.

 

[marrec]

$ 200 000 000 a year is ultimate pussy magnet.

Lets just say, if Notch wanted to make me his lover, I would have to seriously think about my priorities.

I'd keep my current SO as my mistress, and we'd live a life of danger and excitement that's occasionally punctuated by me having sex with Notch.

 

[flyinpiranha]

People are also entirely free to comment and criticise the actions of people, even if they are at a private event.

True enough.

And to your edit: the discussion can be had (obviously). I'm not trying to 'shut it down'.

 

[IHaveCandy]

How does it being "the norm" make it okay? Are you people not fucking human beings?

What is not okay with people dancing at a great pay rate? I'd do that gig.

 

[Calamari41]

Thanks for this, and I appreciate that! I didn't mean to insinuate that these companies are treating women unfairly in their hiring/firing practices, I was just listing that as a part of the 'spectrum of consideration' - if that makes sense. Companies need to always be mindful of how they treat their employees and clients/customers.

Definitely agree with you in spirit, I just think that the "women in gaming" situation taken as a whole is getting a bit out of hand with the "I heard someone make a sex joke a row behind me at a conference, help me get them fired" twitter stuff seeming to happen more and more.

 

[Kinyou]

Is it... really that bad?

Kinda weird, but bad?

 

[Not Spaceghost]

This is their job, it was private party and they are being paid very well. They were probably excited as hell to be able to go. What is the difference here vs the go-go dancers at any night club in the DC area?

The difference is you guys have a huge stick up your ass.

 

[Amneisac]

What is not okay with people dancing at a great pay rate? I'd do that gig.

For probably the 1,000th time in this thread - nothing. Most (reasonable) people who have expressed concerns with this and the IGDA event are just questioning the wisdom of doing it at a corporate-sponsored event.

 

[marrec]

Alright, so lets make a few things clear.

Most people agree, Notch hiring dancers for a VIP party in a club = a-okay.

Right?

 

[Ingueferroque]

Would you people prefer the dancers to not have been paid?

 

[Amneisac]

This is their job, it was private party and they are being paid very well. They were probably excited as hell to be able to go. What is the difference here vs the go-go dancers at any night club in the DC area?

The difference is you guys have a huge stick up your ass.

I never realized NeoGAF was home to so many hedonistic, club-dwelling people. Oh wait, are we not all supposed to be generalizing?

 

[Wrestlemania]

This is their job, it was private party and they are being paid very well. They were probably excited as hell to be able to go. What is the difference here vs the go-go dancers at any night club in the DC area?

The difference is you guys have a huge stick up your ass.

Nobody (well, possibly one or two people on the first couple of pages, but most people don't agree) is saying that the people who (allegedly) took this work are in the wrong.

 

[marrec]

Would you people prefer the dancers to not have been paid?

It's not about the dancers specifically but about the message you're sending by having nearly naked people (ladies in this specific instance) dance about.

IGDA fucked up when they did it.

Notch didn't.

 

[eznark]

I don't understand how people could possibly be okay with this just because, "Oh well, that always happens, that's just how it is, why fight it?" Ask yourself if that logic makes ANY sense whatsoever.

This is bizarre. It's a business transaction between two willing adult parties. What is there to get outraged over?

 

[CecilRousso]

Considering the response from Notch, the subject of this thread should really be changed.

 

[Kuroyume]

Holy fuck at this thread and the outrage. Have gaming enthusiats lost their minds? Has feminism gnawed away at their capacity to think rationally? Unbelievable. Or is this tongue in cheek? I'm afraid I can't tell.

 

[Outrage247]

There's some basement virgins in this thread just praying a hot dancer sees how they stood up them on the Internet.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I never realized NeoGAF was home to so many hedonistic, club-dwelling people. Oh wait, are we not all supposed to be generalizing?

Nobody (well, possibly one or two people on the first couple of pages, but most people don't agree) is saying that the people who (allegedly) took this work are in the wrong.

Yeah sorry, I guess I was just kinda pissed seeing the topic and OP didn't really mean to lash out like that.

I still don't really see the big deal with this unlike the IDGA event which was completely different in setting.

 

[Kimawolf]

No, and I'm glad you brought that up because lots of people have a fundamentally flawed concept of equality. You don't balance out equality by doing things that might alienate the other gender, you just try to make smarter decision in the first place.

Also, you need to realize that most of the discussion in this thread has very little to do with this specific situation and a lot more to do with the IGDA party or just how women are excluded in work functions in general.

I think there are two different discussions going on now in this thread. I completely get that in the workplace, hell yes everything does need to be equal. You need equal pay, rights, benefits, ability to rise within the ranks, yes.

But in this particular thread we're talking about a party, (IDGC or this one) and why it's bad to have attractive women dancing at said parties. One party I can sorta see why it may have been in bad taste even if still, it's a party and they weren't stripping.. But this one, it makes no sense at all to get worked up because some attractive women showed up and danced and entertained.

I think what happens is there is this tidal wave of righteous indignation going on with woman's rights in the gaming and entertainment industry as a whole, and it's tainting people's views of reality and making them see ghosts when there are none and getting worked up over every little thing. And they are not seeing that this is a party, not in an office but a actual party. And to me it's just really getting worked up about the wrong thing and focusing on issues which will ultimately take AWAY from the main issue at hand; namely equality in the workplace.

Instead we have threads like these with people questioning other people's humanity for now being as outraged.

There's some basement virgins in this thread just praying a hot dancer sees how they stood up them on the Internet.

And lol come on dude you really need to come better than that. The whole "internet nerd loser" meme was old five years ago. But i'm sure you'll get your Goofy ass guy badge for making goofy comments eventually!! just keep making them!!!

 

[Ingueferroque]

Considering the response from Notch, the subject of this thread should really be changed.

OP should be updated before we end up in an infinite loop.

 

[marrec]

There's some basement virgins in this thread just praying a hot dancer sees how they stood up them on the Internet.

Cut the personal insults, all they do is make you look like a child who has nothing of actual value to add to the conversation.

Is that what you are?

 

[SousedLouse]

There's some basement virgins in this thread just praying a hot dancer sees how they stood up them on the Internet.

You're reaching. Or maybe projecting. I can never tell with snippy one liners like this.

 

[Amneisac]

This is bizarre. It's a business transaction between two willing adult parties. What is there to get outraged over?

What you've said it equally bizarre. So any business transaction between two willing adult parties is automatically a good idea and shouldn't be open to criticism?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone hiring someone to dance at an appropriate event. That does not mean it is a good ideas to hire dancers for ANY event (IGDA).

Get the difference?

 

[Relix]

I was coming up with a witty reply to the virgin comment and then read my tag. Goddamn you Bishop

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Alright, so lets make a few things clear.

Most people agree, Notch hiring dancers for a VIP party in a club = a-okay.

Right?

If that's even what happened. But that aside, I agree. If women invited to the party felt uncomfortable, or the dancers cited mistreatment, there'd be more worth discussing. But as is, I don't think this is a similar situation to the IGDA party thread. There, the context was important in establishing what was egregious with the situation. As is, the only way to complain here is just to assume that hiring dancers to be at any party is inherently wrong, which is a hard case to make.

 

[Amneisac]

There's some basement virgins in this thread just praying a hot dancer sees how they stood up them on the Internet.

Okay, and I guess you would fall under the camp of basement-dwelling virgins that will only ever see a hot woman at a party that they were paid to attend so you want to keep the practice alive?

 

[marrec]

I was coming up with a witty reply to the virgin comment and then read my tag. Goddamn you Bishop

Let me know when you're birthday comes up, I'll hire some dancers for you.

Spoiler

Female AND Male, I'd hate for you to get put on blast via Twitter

 

[RotBot]

You'd think Mojang would have toned the party down this year, given the sexual assault story that broke out of last year's PAX party. On the Giant Bombcast after PAX, they mentioned how weird the atmosphere of the party was, with models being paid to be there chatting up attendees.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Alright, so lets make a few things clear.

Most people agree, Notch hiring dancers for a VIP party in a club = a-okay.

Right?

I'm voting for sure.

These people choose to use an asset, their looks. For me it's the same as using your knowledge of computers, your extreme ability to run, or your luck of being born into a rich family and using their money.

It's an asset. Use it. People who criminalize this behavior and point it out are the ones that strike me as odd.

Do we get pissed at Basketball Players for being tall? They are using a physical attribute to make millions for the entertainment of others. But when a person uses chiseled abs or a great body, it's "Oh noez! The humanity!"

 

[bengraven]

Who fucking cares?

Waiting on funny Notch tweets in response.

 

[Wrestlemania]

This is bizarre. It's a business transaction between two willing adult parties. What is there to get outraged over?

Both parties consenting doesn't mean something is totally justified and acceptable.
Look - I don't think this is the worst thing that could possibly happen and that the whole industry will collapse on itself as a result. I think thing a games developer (allegedly) hiring women to attend an event posing as party goers is a bit weird and not a massively sensible within an industry which has enough problems with it's treatment of gender issues. That's all. No outrage from me.

 

[eznark]

^ The poster I was responding to has an issue with the very notion, not the specific event.

What you've said it equally bizarre. So any business transaction between two willing adult parties is automatically a good idea and shouldn't be open to criticism?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone hiring someone to dance at an appropriate event. That does not mean it is a good ideas to hire dancers for ANY event (IGDA).

Get the difference?

I wasn't referring the the criticism, people are free to criticize whatever they'd like. I was responding to the specific poster who was aghast that such a thing even happened in the first place, as though these women shouldn't be able to capitalize on their assets. He asked if people who think it's ok for women to get paid to attend parties were "even human."

 

[marrec]

If that's even what happened. But that aside, I agree. If women invited to the party felt uncomfortable, or the dancers cited mistreatment, there'd be more worth discussing. But as is, I don't think this is a similar situation to the IGDA party thread. There, the context was important in establishing what was egregious with the situation. As is, the only way to complain is just to assume that hiring dancers to be at a party is inherently wrong, which is a hard case to make.

Alright, I just wanted to get that out of the way. I fail to see any reason the Mojang party should be called into question unless there is more to the story we're missing. It provides an excellent counterpoint to the IGDA party in fact.

 

[Amneisac]

I'm voting for sure.

These people choose to use an asset, their looks. For me it's the same as using your knowledge of computers, your extreme ability to run, or your luck of being born into a rich family and using their money.

It's an asset. Use it. People who criminalize this behavior and point it out are the ones that strike me as odd.

Do we get pissed at Basketball Players for being tall? They are using a physical attribute to make millions at the entertainment of others. But when a person uses chiseled abs or a great body, it's "Oh noez! The humanity!"

No one is questioning this. People are questioning the wisdom of hiring them to dance at a corporate-sponsored event. Specifically the IGDC event, but this whole Notch thing is getting lumped in with it.

 

[Outrage247]

Nah we just don't need to get crazy at every situation that happens in the world. Dancers get paid at almost ever club all over the world. Let's all get out pitch forks out over it happening here.

 

[APF]

Stepping aside from this particular issue, I find it alarming how many people on GAF seem completely incapable of realizing what could be wrong with a situation like this.

Whenever there is discussion about female representation in entertainment, I feel like I've been transported back into the 50s and Don Draper is handing me an Old Fashioned.

 

[eznark]

No one is questioning this. People are questioning the wisdom of hiring them to dance at a corporate-sponsored event. Specifically the IGDC event, but this whole Notch thing is getting lumped in with it.

Yes, they are. Plenty of people in this thread are doing just that.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

The OP is misguided and has failed to explain why this is beyond fucked up for the VIP section of a private party.

 

[Amneisac]

Searching for facts:

Does anyone know if this was something that Mojang put on or was it paid for by Notch himself? To me that's a pretty important distinction.

 

[flyinpiranha]

No one is questioning this. People are questioning the wisdom of hiring them to dance at a corporate-sponsored event. Specifically the IGDC event, but this whole Notch thing is getting lumped in with it.

Ah, so like I mentioned before, it's just heat spilling over into another thread. Well, I'm out.

And to the people insulting with "basement dwelling virgin" insults. Dude, that shit is so played out it's pathetic. A majority of people on this board aren't the typical stereotype that some of the white knights proclaim us to be.

Just because we don't find something offensive doesn't mean we aren't morally aligned with societal values or have no contact with the outside world.

Every time I see a 'virgin basement' comment I picture a sad little person who's only contact with people is on the forum they are insulting.

 

[marrec]

Nah we just don't need to get crazy at every situation that happens in the world. Dancers get paid at almost ever club all over the world. Let's all get out pitch forks out over it happening here.

That's true, however there is a larger issue to be discussed that this party and the IGDA party provide framing devices for. Female representation in the Video Gaming industry is a hot topic and if we can't talk about what events like this mean in the context of gender equality then we're never going to have an encouraging atmosphere for women to want to join the industry.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'd think it would be the opposite. If I was a corporate CEO or something, I'd hire more girls to improve our company's image.

If they are qualified right?... right?

 

[Calamari41]

I think thing a games developer (allegedly) hiring women to attend an event posing as party goers is a bit weird and not a massively sensible within an industry which has enough problems with it's treatment of gender issues. That's all. No outrage from me.

To be fair, this is "Corporate Party Throwing 101." At Electronica in Munich a few years ago (convention for shit like capacitors, PC boards, green tech, etc), the booth next to mine literally had a naked woman just lying down on a table. I'm not saying that to show you that it is and should be normal, I'm just saying it to express that there might be bigger fish to fry with regards to the "women in ______" outrage. Let's try to get stuff on that level to change before we try to shut down nightclubs for hiring models even though that's not what happened here.

(I know you said there's no outrage on your end and everything, your post just made me remember that anecdote is all)

 

[EscoBlades]

What i find most baffling is how a lot of people in this thread seem to be completely ignoring the statements by both Notch and the event organiser stating that they didn't hire/ pay people to party at the....party.

So, either those two are straight up talking BS, or the people who tweeted their outrage got the wrong end of the stick. In any case, there needs to be investigation into what really happened (or maybe there doesn't need to be, whatever, it is in the spotlight now regardless)

Without all the facts, a lot of the posts in this thread seem way off base at present. But then, even if Notch did turn out to be telling the truth, i'm sure some would manufacture something else to be angry at him for concerning the party.

 

[RotBot]

Searching for facts:

Does anyone know if this was something that Mojang put on or was it paid for by Notch himself? To me that's a pretty important distinction.

Statements from last year's PAX party, where the situation was pretty much exactly the same as this party.

But this wasn't a PAX party - it was a private Mojang company party. A party where, i hear, pretty girls from a modelling agency were hired to populate the party and to be unrealistically friendly/flirty with the guests, which may provide context to this guy's outrageous actions (but of course, it doesn't excuse them).

Hey Ryan,

A quick point to clarify. The party wasn't a Mojang party. Markus (Notch) paid for the entire thing himself, so it was his party. The production company wanted to have more girls there to up the girl to guy ratio. It's a pretty typical club procedure. Mojang didn't hire them.

That being said - this guy had no right to do something like this to Ky OR to a hired model. The girls there weren't getting undressed or being ridiculously provocative. That guy was a pervert who should never have been there. I really hope it was some non-gaming person who snuck in and not an industry person (as I've found most of the guys in the gaming industry to be pretty great. If he is a gamer, I would hate to be him if people ever find out who he is.

Ky - this completely sucks. It's terrible that a guy would act that way towards any girl and I hate that it ruined the end of your PAX experience.

~Lydia Winters
Mojang's Director of Fun
@lydiawinters

 

[Akainu]

This thread is getting loco.

I...is this real?! OoO

 

[Hari Seldon]

Don't see a problem with this at all, since Mojang is not representing the entire industry.