what. that not what I said at all. All I said was that if you commit a crime but fail you still get punished for that crime.
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Destructoid writer let go over including relevant information in a story?
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
what. that not what I said at all. All I said was that if you commit a crime but fail you still get punished for that crime.
What does Destructoid have to do with charging people with crimes? Nothing.
StarCreator
Member
Going in circles again - this goes back to questioning why it takes more than four weeks (the time Allistair was ordered to remain completely silent by Destructoid's editorial staff) for the story to be "ready". What was taking so long?
faceless007
Member
People could speculate however they want, but that statement would 1) confirm that the fundraiser was illegitimate and thus (ideally) stop donations, and 2) refrain from outing her. It would have been a preferable outcome in every way; the only people unsatisfied by it would have been people who weren't being affected by the story one way or the other anyway.
Some crimes are not crimes unless they actually succeed. I'm not defending her, just saying that I don't think attempted conning is worth the effort to prosecute.
Especially in this case, where no one was really hurt and the criminal is also a victim of herself. Or she's her own worst enemy, and may do more harm to herself than the legal system would.
If her psyche was damaged before, I can't see this improving anything. But again, not that I can really sympathize with her.
Who gives a shit? They could have lots of reasons. Maybe it had to do with her suicide threats and attempts? It probably wasn't safe to post until she was alive and well in the hospital and that was just last week. Maybe they were afraid of negative press from the transgender/feminist community.
Since you are so hung up on this, what do you think the reason was?
"It would have been a preferable outcome in every way" if you think telling the truth should take a backseat to protecting personal feelings.
Indeed.
StarCreator
Member
I haven't the foggiest idea - if I did, why would I be asking?
The problem is, Destructoid was in a unique position to stop the fraud (which was ongoing even without Chloe's further involvement) and they didn't. I can understand it's a sensitive issue and they wanted time to get things straight, but the longer they waited, the worse the fraud became.
Apologies for being harsh.
The fraud was already exposed. If people still wanted to donate to her and not believe the fraud or at least question her motives, I think that is on them.
Yes Destructoid had an admission from the lions mouth, but AFIAK no money was actually ever given to her from any source. If Destructoid had let her get money and then she actually used the money, that would be a different story. But after the IndieGoGo campaign was shut down it seemed like the game was up for her at that point.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Was the fraud really exposed already? There was speculation and the IGG was taken down.. but Chloe was not admitting any fault in that.
Just because the IGG was shutdown doesn't mean the fraud was exposed at all.
Professor Beef
Banned
Well then thank goodness you're not a lawmaker.
baphomet
Member
They lock people up for far less. If she broke the law she will get prosecuted, and she brought it on herself.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
So you feel bad for her because of her situation and that makes it okay that she tried to take advantage of a considerable number of people and scam them?
What she did was horrible and in no way should she come out of this unscathed and forgiven so quickly.
There's a lot of troubled people out there that all more worthy of people's sympathy than her.
god what a shitstorm
Well, that was an interesting read.
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
What a shitshow. Everyone involved seems to be at fault.
GreatMightySymp
Member
Well, that was an interesting read if nothing else.
Here is the archived /v/ thread if you missed it. There wont be any more threads about this topic for a while because of the Xbox shitstorm.
https://loveisover.me/v/thread/190697896
The OP is obviously from Destructoid. There is some info on other things as well.
https://loveisover.me/v/thread/190697896
The OP is obviously from Destructoid. There is some info on other things as well.
Various Artists
Banned
Thanks for this. Everyone should read this for further incite. Hopefully this doesn't get lost in the X1 chatter. (though Im sure a lot of parties would like it to be)
Lowlander2
Banned
I'll definitely read it as soon as I can. This whole thing has been relevant to my field.
EDIT: Man, I would hate to be any DToid writer that isn't Niero or Alistair. Whoever they back, it's awkward for all.
That even the outspoken Jim Sterling hasn't said a word about this speaks volumes.
EDIT: Man, I would hate to be any DToid writer that isn't Niero or Alistair. Whoever they back, it's awkward for all.
Unfortunately, I know from experience.
That even the outspoken Jim Sterling hasn't said a word about this speaks volumes.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I just read all those e-mails.. kind of feel dirty reading them.. but wow talk about unprofessional behavior from Niero.
He calls him "cupcake" & "sugar" and doesn't even have the common decency to call him and discuss the matter.
Wow... I honestly feel bad for Allistar.. and I didn't even like the stuff he did at Destructoid to begin with.. but Niero was putting him in a horrible position with all this.
He calls him "cupcake" & "sugar" and doesn't even have the common decency to call him and discuss the matter.
Wow... I honestly feel bad for Allistar.. and I didn't even like the stuff he did at Destructoid to begin with.. but Niero was putting him in a horrible position with all this.
Various Artists
Banned
He seems to get a bit condescending when someone says something he doesnt like. There was another email later on, I think from Colleen where he pulls the same shit.
Lowlander2
Banned
The guy who posted them can't be Jim. He's always very direct, taking every issue he steps into head-on. It could be Alistair himself, but I'm thinking it might be a writer who has less to lose like...what's her name? Sophia? The one who wrote the Mass Effect cover art and Skyrim politics articles. She's always been politically minded, and this seems like an issue that would appeal to her on all fronts.
I thought at first that Niero was effectively letting a scam go on, but after reading these emails, I feel like Niero was in the right after all.
I feel fucking terrible that I was giving so much shit on him, especially after the Collette emails showing how much he cares about the site. Hell, it appears that Allistair is a major fuckup. I guess I was just hoping that Allistair was maintaining some sense of journalistic integrity, but fuck, every email just makes him seem more and more unlikeable/unreliable.
He's even going to support the scammer in a fucking charity event.
I feel fucking terrible that I was giving so much shit on him, especially after the Collette emails showing how much he cares about the site. Hell, it appears that Allistair is a major fuckup. I guess I was just hoping that Allistair was maintaining some sense of journalistic integrity, but fuck, every email just makes him seem more and more unlikeable/unreliable.
He's even going to support the scammer in a fucking charity event.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
from my very limited grasp of this entire ordeal(but im throwing in my 2cents anyway), this niero guy seems like a massive fucking cunt that didn't make the slightest bit of effort to stand up for his employee.
All this dude did was report on a fraud, right? Why is it so fucking BAD to reveal that she was trans? Who fucking gives a shit?! She was defrauding people, and the dude just gave the real reason why she was taking strangers money; SRS! A bunch of fucking RETARDED(im not saying they're all retarded, fuck!) LGBT activists bitch about this dudes journalism on twitter and this fucking spineless, worthless cunt of a boss decides to just throw him under the bus?
All this dude did was report on a fraud, right? Why is it so fucking BAD to reveal that she was trans? Who fucking gives a shit?! She was defrauding people, and the dude just gave the real reason why she was taking strangers money; SRS! A bunch of fucking RETARDED(im not saying they're all retarded, fuck!) LGBT activists bitch about this dudes journalism on twitter and this fucking spineless, worthless cunt of a boss decides to just throw him under the bus?
The Feds if they decided to pursue charges aren't going to stop pursuing charges over some tweets l o fucking l. That's like saying Jodi Arias wont be charged because the Arizona Republic said bad things about her.
The emails paint the picture of a man who let a bunch of Twitter Nazis dictate to him what should be done. They wanted blood spilled regardless of what the ACTUAL people involved felt.
Nah, don't see it being Sophie. She's done a lot of Penny Arcade the last few months. Holly Green on the other hand...
My sleepiness made me think it was about IGG not pressing charges over feds not filing charges, sorry (too many xbox surprises are sort of making me full of vitriol as well, my bad there too).
Honestly IGG wont go after her because they are a company that needs good PR. The Lynch party that surfaced for Allistair would grow 10 times its size going after IGG if they went after Chloe. These same people said it was great that Chloe finally had a voice in all of this and could express her wishes. In the very next line they demanded Allistair's blood regardless of what Chloe wanted.
They want something to riot over.
Lowlander2
Banned
She's publicly separated herself from DToid, so I don't think she would have seen the emails without someone else sending them to her. She has something of a motive, though, going on Twitter and speaking in broad terms about how a particular, unnamed, writer did her very wrong.
But all we really have are maybes. Maybe the writer was Alistair, maybe not, Maybe this fits her behaviour, but I'm not...terribly familiar with her work. If the distance between her and the DToid organisation is that great, she might not do anything to bring her closer to it, even anonymously.
Or...maybe she would. I don't know. It's not hugely important anyway, but it might be interesting to find out anyway if this is a "whistleblower" case as opposed to Al simply breaking the barriers of site/reader confidentiality to fulfill some vengeful niche.
I want to say that this sort of generalisation hurts everyone's perception of the cause unfairly. Unfortunately, this was pretty much true.
That said, there were some concerns raised about the validity of Chloe's apology; whether it was sincere or merely a move to satisfy potential guilt she might have felt had she thrown it back in Alistair's face. That thought lingered on my mind for two seconds, and then I decided it was not worth the hassle. If that's the decision she's made, even half-heartedly, so be it. Not my place to say what she should do.
Libel, not slander. Unless Tweets are a transcription service, for oral statements, that I was unaware of.
----------------
In the US defamation lawsuits involve the first amendment so the the burden is heavily slanted on the plaintiff.
Also, depending on the specific state, the developer is probably classified as a public figure so the normal protections against defamation may not apply.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I read the Collette e-mail's completely different from you then.
Collette basically told Niero that if you want me to sell the advertising as well then you should pay me for it. Niero took that as a slap in the face and said then share the revenue (after he just said they are losing money) implying "fuck you work for free".
Terrible move on his part, and a huge knee jerk reaction.
Much like he knee jerked to all this Allistar stuff.
He wasn't fired because he outed her. They added that to their policy after the fact.
Got it. Thanks.
Because of the unclear situation, a lot of people were understandably upset with Indiegogo for seemingly having shut down Chloe's fundraiser for no good reason. With Indiegogo having their hands tied, their vague responses caused outright accusations that their "fraud algorithms" caused someone to take their own life.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Haha well there it is all laid to bare. Niero shit himself from fear and fired Allistair from thinking about legal proceedings that never came (nor could have). Then got angry at Allistair for further working things out with Chloe and doing a pretty damn over the top good job of it.
"See you in court, sugar."
Superb!
"See you in court, sugar."
Superb!
Sordid. Everyone involved comes across as scheming, scared, manipulative and utterly at odds with the way they've presented themselves in public.
CambriaRising
Member
Just got around to reading the emails.
Wow. Neiro jumped the gun and then doubled down on the crazy.
No one looks good in all of this, but holy crap.
Wow. Neiro jumped the gun and then doubled down on the crazy.
No one looks good in all of this, but holy crap.
UltraTrion
Neo Member
I don't know where else to put this, but there's this: http://chloesagal.wordpress.com which links to a big post on indiestone that is, I guess Chloe's side of the story.
And then if you get into the comments on the blog, she edits some people's comments (some, I imagine, are probably not too nice) with pretty vile epithets and insults in return, which is odd, considering a lot of this has to do with misrepresentation.
Sorry for Necroing a thread, but if anyone was interested in a follow-up.
And then if you get into the comments on the blog, she edits some people's comments (some, I imagine, are probably not too nice) with pretty vile epithets and insults in return, which is odd, considering a lot of this has to do with misrepresentation.
Sorry for Necroing a thread, but if anyone was interested in a follow-up.
Tummi Gummi
Member
This whole sorry saga is baffling.
Im still wondering, how can you "out" a transgender. If someone is homosexual I can see them maybe keeping it private and letting it out on their own terms. However once you are transgender you pretty much have taking on the opposite gender role in some way. Anything else is just cross-dressing.
Vermillion
Banned
There's a difference between transgender and transsexual.
Being transgender means that the gender you identify with doesn't match your biological sex. Being transsexual involves going through surgery to change your sex to match the gender you identify with.
So you can be a transgender person without anyone else knowing.
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