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Lightning Returns Final Fantasy 13 E3 2013 Gameplay Demo

ZenaxPure

Member
Here's some cam-footage from E3 of the demo. There's a new UI for battles~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CIFQNPuujk

Thank jebus we finally got some battles with the UI, just got done watching it and honestly... it just all hit me at once. This exact combat is what I wanted from the original FF13, it looks like what it should have been. I mean, I've always been a huge fan of the combat in the 13 series but even in the original 13 there was moments where I would use blitz only to be like "you mother fucker, if you would have taken one step forward you would have hit like 3 more dudes." So great, free roam fixes that. Any veteran of FF13 knows that actually inputting commands yourself was the key to quick success and 5 stars but lets face it - the command menu for selecting attacks was garbage. Now that's appears to be gone. Attacks on each face button and switching paradigms with one button instead of a menu pretty much fixes that. Party members were pretty much useless, AI could be annoying at times and all you were doing was selecting very redumentary AI commands for them, so great, axe that too.

Honestly I was expecting something a lot different (and was actually a bit bummed by it) but this just looks like the essence of the 13 combat without all the bullshit. Free roam so mob placement isn't as annoying, no need to hit 3-4 buttons to switch to SEN/SEN/SEN when you want to guard against a major attack, no pointless party AI, no dealing with the terrible menu layout, staggering is still there (but the real question is launching?), etc.

Jeeze, that looks pretty stale. Combat seems pretty close to Dark Cloud but with separate battle screens.

How much of it did you watch? I was confused at first, but, that area (or at least for this demo) is a tutortial area and each of the mobs is teaching you different mechanics. The boss battle at the end looked pretty much like a battle from 13 or 13-2 without all the annoying parts of the combat.

Granted if you weren't a fan of the combat then I can understand not digging this either, this is clearly a more refined version of that stuff.
 

Xux

Member
How much of it did you watch? I was confused at first, but, that area (or at least for this demo) is a tutortial area and each of the mobs is teaching you different mechanics. The boss battle at the end looked pretty much like a battle from 13 or 13-2 without all the annoying parts of the combat.

Granted if you weren't a fan of the combat then I can understand not digging this either, this is clearly a more refined version of that stuff.
Yeah, I really didn't like the original's and XIII-2 really only fixed one thing that killed it for me (party leader dieing = game over). This seems like a stripped down and streamlined version of a system I didn't like because it felt so streamlined and stripped down. I would've loved an expanded upon FFXII system with more emphasis on doing more than just spamming attack, some defensive stuff, status effects etc. but XIII felt like they flipped too far in the opposite direction.

The slow space I'll chalk up to being a beginning tutorial but I'll hold out on seeing if I can call this an action RPG with a straight face.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
The slow space I'll chalk up to being a beginning tutorial but I'll hold out on seeing if I can call this an action RPG with a straight face.

I don't really think I would call it an action RPG to be honest, but I also don't consider the other 13 games action RPGs. "Action" seems to imply that you are only limited by button commands and animations. This still clearly uses some sort of resource (atb) system which limits how many commands you can input. Based on the tutorial in that video each different paradigm (or w/e the hell they are calling them now) has it's own ATB meter. I assume the focus is to dump one of them and rotate between classes issuing commands as you wait for the others to recharge, so a balancing act that if you don't handle correctly could leave you in positions where you can't do anything at points.

Not sure I would call it stripped down though, it looks like every major feature/command of the original game is still there but it's not bogged down with all the same problems.
 

Xux

Member
I don't really think I would call it an action RPG to be honest, but I also don't consider the other 13 games action RPGs. "Action" seems to imply that you are only limited by button commands and animations. This still clearly uses some sort of resource (atb) system which limits how many commands you can input. Based on the tutorial in that video each different paradigm (or w/e the hell they are calling them now) has it's own ATB meter. I assume the focus is to dump one of them and rotate between classes issuing commands as you wait for the others to recharge, so a balancing act that if you don't handle correctly could leave you in positions where you can't do anything at points.

Not sure I would call it stripped down though, it looks like every major feature/command of the original game is still there but it's not bogged down with all the same problems.
The "action" part came from what other people were comparing it to mostly combined with the fact you can move in a game where abilities have actual spatial AoE ranges and hitboxes that make character positioning matter. The platforming mobility outside of battle seems almost pointless when the character seems bolted to floor and "movement" is slowly strafing around the enemy. I guess the person in the video didn't realize that the ATB reset when you changed clothes which made it seem like ATB was just a "wait 10 seconds because you did too much too fast". It'd be interesting if they shoved diverse playstyles down your throat.

I honestly have a hard time articulating what I don't like about the XIII games' battle systems. They don't seem to be that lacking compared to older ones but something is there or missing that bores me more than FFIX, X, X-2, and XII's. I'll look at the battles from later in the game before I decide to skip this for sure.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
I honestly have a hard time articulating what I don't like about the XIII games' battle systems. They don't seem to be that lacking compared to older ones but something is there or missing that bores me more than FFIX, X, X-2, and XII's. I'll look at the battles from later in the game before I decide to skip this for sure.

Well, I'm not saying it's for everyone or that you have to like it or anything (I'm not a crazy person who lives in some weird world where everyone should like the same stuff). All I was really trying to get across is this looks like a better version of the combat in the previous 2 games, not something entirely different (which is what a lot of people had been pointing towards, I thought it was a proper action-rpg myself as well before watching this video).

As for what I actually like about it (compared to older stuff) is that they managed to take the archetypes of the Final Fantasy combat and put them into a properly balanced game. Instead of magic being really strong or really useless (for example) everything is integral to everything else. It's a system built entirely on synergy with no real wasted space. It's something I feel like they did a decent job at achieving in both 10 and 12, but, both of those were very slow paced games (could pause and think about what you were going to do before making any real decisions) where as this felt like the core of those PS1 era ATB driven games with actual real complex mechanics instead of the easily breakable systems each of those games had.
 

Xux

Member
I just can't shake the feeling that I'm missing something when people bring up the battle system as a high point. I need to replay FFXIII and maybe even look into XIII-2.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
I just can't shake the feeling that I'm missing something when people bring up the battle system as a high point. I need to replay FFXIII and maybe even look into XIII-2.

I dunno, did you beat the game? The thing about the combat is it wasn't mind-blowingly amazing until like 35 hours into the game where you have all the characters and all the abilities unlocked. Then it basically fell into 2 categories: the fast paced fights where you are changing paradigms literally every few seconds and having to manage the stagger meter plus keep buffs up plus keep debuffs up, plus switch to triple SEN when heavy attacks are coming in, etc. It's just really fast paced but requires more strategy than previous games in the series if you wanted to be good at it. If you recall you get rated for your performance at the end of battles and getting max stars gave you a better shot at loot, so the game actively encouraged you to learn the mechanics. The other type of fights are the ones that require more planning than execution, weird paradigm setups and so on. Not much to say there since the fights varied a lot and were more special.

As for 13-2 it lets you get into everything faster and offers basically the same experience, but, there is no real sense of danger outside of a few key fights. I think it's faster about getting the point of the combat across but, again, no sense of danger.
 
Visual department aside, looking at the gameplay demo and reading some impressions, i guess this could be fun.

My only concern is that, with Lightning now fighting alone, i hope they don't make this game far too easy. XIII-2 have many tweaks (paradigm change without pose, etc) that should have easily means better experience, but the dumbed down difficulty just ruin it for me. In XIII-2, Long Gui is easy as hell, Yomi is nothing compared to Vercingotrix of XIII.

LRFFXIII needs to find the right balance of difficulty where it promotes tactical approach in battle rather than button mashing and brute force the enemies with your 'winning' paradigm or whatever it's called now.
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
My god that battle against the dragon is having so many special effects going in the screen that you really notice how far they're pushing the engine compared to 2009. WoW.
 

dokish

Banned
Hate to say, but this is gonna be just another XIII-2. A lot of potential wasted. I'm tired of this battle system already. Yeah, its not "different", is basically the same thing from XIII with a few tweaks.

Also LOL at the whole costume thing. Didn't knew about this.

I'm gonna buy anyway :(

? The whole world is sinking in chaos, how's that ignoring the ending?

You know,
Serah dying
and all that. I know the world is crumbling, but are they gonna answer the thousands of questions that XIII-2 brought? All the Caius and Yeul stuff and everything!
 

Xux

Member
I dunno, did you beat the game?
I got to Pulse but got bored trying to go back and forth to do all of the hunts. The whole tiers of enemies and what not really threw me off. Maybe I should just try to go straight to the end and then try to do everything.
 

TheChaos0

Member
News about the story? They are gonna completely ignore XIII-2's ending?

What makes you think that? This happens... what was it 500 year after the ending?

Also, the demo gameplay actually looks quite good. So it's basically, XIII battle system, without the party members, with free roam and Valkyrie Profile combat menu with costumes defining your 4 abilities. I'm OK with that.
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
You know,
Serah dying
and all that. I know the world is crumbling, but are they gonna answer the thousands of questions that XIII-2 brought? All the Caius and Yeul stuff and everything!

They promised this game is going to give a satisfying answer and ending to everyone and everything.
As for Serah dying... she never really died in a proper sense to begin with. In AF700 she write a letter from the future saying she's stuck in a dark place (/chaos) and all. Obviously she'll be saved eventually in this game (/hopefully Light has to die for this to happen). As for Caius and Yuel, secret ending in XIII-2 already hinted at them as possible main antagonists again, so expect them to shows up at TGS's final trailer. Caius is for this trilogy the Sephiroth of "VII", his act is still not finished.

edit.

new outfit from FFXIV spotted:

HAir0kz.png
 

Akainu

Member
I watching this and it bothers me how slow she is running. She and jump three times her height but she can't put a little pep in her step? The animations are also all kinds of horrible.

Now that I think about it that victory pose when she puts her arms over her head. Isn't that from X-2?
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
XIII-2 spoilers
Do we know if Caius is returning? The secret ending pretty much says that everything was according to plan...
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
They had a 15 minute demo and they're already calling it the deepest RPG battle system in years? Yeah, okay.

You just look at the video and you can get the same feelings. Plus from the people that brought you XIII, I would've little doubts about the BS being great.

Now... about XV, there you should have doubts. Kh2 BS design was a mess.
 
You just look at the video and you can get the same feelings. Plus from the people that brought you XIII, I would've little doubts about the BS being great.

Now... about XV, there you should have doubts. Kh2 BS design was a mess.

Putting aside my inner Lightning fan which is demanding I squeal in delight so as to be objective about things, what I see is a streamlined version of XIII's combat with less options. Instead of having 6 meticulously balanced characters who play differently, you get a single character. Instead of having 6 roles open to you, you have 3. Instead of having 60 to 85 abilities (having nigh 100 between all three character with certain set ups) to use during battle as well as Eidolons, you have 12 per battle with no Eidolons. Instead of having 6 possible set ups across 3 characters (meaning 6 role options per character) to go into battle with (meaning you could have 6 completely different set ups), you can preset Lightning to have 3 "schema" per battle. Staggering is back, but seems to be about as important as it was in XIII-2. Preemptive Strikes are back, but are about as deep as the Mog Clock was. I have yet to see an in-depth leveling system, skill tree, equipment system, inventory, upgrade system, quest system, or anything else.

What we saw was the absolute bare bones of the system. Well, for LR's sake, I hope that was considered bare bones. So I stand by my "Sure, okay" statement.
 
XIII-2 spoilers
Do we know if Caius is returning? The secret ending pretty much says that everything was according to plan...

I honestly hope so. I know some people didn't like Caius, but Noel, Yeul, and him were really the highlights of XIII-2 to me.
I've love to see him return in some way. Based on how his 'story' ended in XIII-2, it's certainly possible.

Few minutes till the streaming event of Lightning Returns on their channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oxBGng_Xmw

edit. no, maybe not that soon <.<'

I think the LR segment starts in an hour (4pm est). I think...
 
About damn time, but that's still pretty barebones compared to what they showed for XIII-2. I will say that I wish they streamlined battle/non-battle since a lot of the areas they've shown seem to be open ended (also would've been wavy if they had integrated Dissidia like combat with their traditional XIII combat). Insignificant peeves aside, looks fun.
 
Looks like I'm going to be passing on this game. FF games are getting less and less interesting with each iteration. I hope XV reverses this trend.
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Recycling old material from months ago!
GOGO!

edit. Nomura's sketch of Light T.T

NEW model vs old's one

1016129_10200338617013450_89678456_n.jpg


plus they've shown new costumes and accessories light can equip
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
I was hoping for more footage but probably they don't want to spoiler much untill TGS. There's an interview too in one hour?
 

Bladenic

Member
The huge costume system and the demo impressions (including real time movement, etc.) has increased my hype for this. Story will be insanely terrible as always but the game should be good enough to satiate the FF hunger until FF15 is closer to release. I'll probably play 14 too.
 

Pooya

Member
100 outfits? 3 of them should look decent I hope.

that purple dress, so many out of place outfits. this game is just for fan service pretty much.

her neck looks odd in those pics.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I will play this so I can finish the saga and pray that XIII and Lightning are done forever.

It doesn't look all that bad but not great either, I expect it to look somewhat like XIII-2 which I thought looked shit compared to XIII anyway. I deal with that.

But really I'm quite sick of the XIII lore and the thought it spawned 3 fucking games. We never really experienced a world or anything. Its hard to give a rats ass about Pulse or Cocoon.
 

Ricker

Member
I've yet to see one single decent outfit for Lightning in this game
WTF @ dat hippie one

lol it's not a hippie hat,it's a hillbillie hat :p ;)....

Looking better and better each time we see it,I think this will turn out great(I hope).
 
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