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"The problem with the gaming industry is that developers make too much"

kvothe

Member
According to Examiner.com.

The girlfriend of a fairly prominent game developer (who shall both remain nameless for the sake of privacy) recently tweeted that she was having a bad day because she ran over the curb while driving his $70,000 sports car around the city. The tweet has since been deleted but statements like this make one start to wonder if game developers and consequently publishers really should be making enough money to afford $70,000 sports cars to begin with.

Your first reaction might be something along the lines of "well if the game is really good, they deserve to be paid well for working on it," and that is a valid line of thought until you consider that these costs are then unnecessarily passed onto the consumer. It has become commonplace to see publishers try to nickel-and-dime gamers through downloadable content that should have been included on the disc, micro-transactions, forcing us to pay extra for online passes just to access multiplayer, and even trying to abolish the entire used game market in the next generation because it is "hurting the industry."

Former Epic Games design director Cliff Bleszinski (perhaps known best for working on Gears of War) even supported Microsoft's previous Xbox One policy of restricting used games when he tweeted, "You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing."

Perhaps not, but why are game budgets so high anyway? Publishers have routinely complained about the cost of creating blockbuster titles getting more and more expensive in recent years. In the past, a game selling just one million copies was considered to be a success but nowadays they are disappointed when games sell 3.4 million copies in just one month because the costs are so much higher now.

When you juxtapose the idea of publishers and developers complaining about the cost of making a game with the fact that they are driving around in $70,000 sports cars, it gets to be pretty absurd. Have publishers ever thought that perhaps games are getting too expensive to make is because they paying people such huge salaries? According to Game Developer magazine, the average salary for U.S. developers in 2011 was $81,192 a year. It's probably gone up since then due to inflation. Compare that to the current average salary of a police officer which is $50,745 a year (www.salary.com) or a teacher which can be as low as $39,850 a year depending on the state (www.teacherportal.com). Being a game developer is apparently an even better paying job than working at the CIA which according to www.simplyhired.com comes with an average salary of $70,000 a year.

In addition to a high salary, the majority of game developers also receive a myriad of fringe benefits including stock options, annual bonuses, project bonuses, royalties for games they have worked on, medical benefits, dental coverage, and even pension plans. Those who received financial benefits made an average of $17,689 above and beyond their salary (source). In other words, the average yearly earnings of a video game developer is about six figures.

Why are developers making so much money? Their job isn't life threatening like a police officer's is and it's not important to the future of the nation like a teacher's job is. It might be tedious or even grueling at times and require long hours and lots of commitment, but working in the video game industry is generally fun. People should be working in the gaming industry because they want to create awesome games. Not because they want to become rich. When did the gaming industry become so corporate?

The developer whose girlfriend made the tweet mentioned at the top of this article is non-essential to his particular game's success as well. He works on the player behavior team helping to discipline players on a free-to-play game which utilizes micro-transactions to earn revenue. Considering it is free-to-play, you might think that having an exorbitant salary doesn't hurt gamers since the game is free after all, but that's not exactly the case.

Unless you want to log literally hundreds upon hundreds of hours to unlock new characters and in-game items, you do still have to pay for them. Using micro-transactions can be a very profitable model. Valve recently announced they have sold over $10 million worth of hats on Team Fortress 2. The game this guy works on is much, much larger than TF2 (it sees a daily player base 71 times larger than Team Fortress 2 does) and also earns money from many more things than purely cosmetic enhancements - but stuff that actually gives people an edge in the game. One can only imagine how many sales they make daily. Revenues must surely eclipse numbers in the hundreds of millions each year!

And yet, the publisher has been raising the prices on their in-game items lately. Why? So people working there can afford more $70,000 sports cars?

When gamers buy something, they expect that money to go into maintaining the game or making it better. They don't expect their money to be put towards people living in luxury. Surely the prices of the in-game items could be a lot lower than they are now if the salaries of employees working there weren't so hefty.

If developers weren't making as much, perhaps games wouldn't need to sell as many copies to be successful either. Keep in mind that many game studios employ literally thousands of people. If the average salary is $81,000, then a studio with 2,000 employees is paying out roughly $162 million in salaries alone. And that's not even including any of the bonuses of benefits which if the average is $17,000 yearly would be another $34 million. No wonder games are so expensive to make! What if these numbers were cut in half? This would only benefit gamers. Maybe games could go back to being $50 each. Maybe DLC and in-game items would be free to download. Are we to believe there isn't an equally qualified person out there willing to do this guy's job for less pay?

It's no wonder games like Call of Duty (which is not the franchise the dev highlighted in this article works on) can sell tens of millions of copies earning billions of dollars each year and yet the game still does not use dedicate servers and runs horribly online. Where does all this money go?! If Activision is anything like Riot Games, then according to the tweets of at least one very happy girlfriend, it goes towards buying sports cars, fine dining, and expensive jewelry

Guy is an idiot.
My b if old.
 

jtb

Banned
out of all the conclusions that one could draw from the whole "the industry is dying" talk, this is probably the dumbest.
 

antitrop

Member
It's no wonder games like Call of Duty (which is not the franchise the dev highlighted in this article works on) can sell tens of millions of copies earning billions of dollars each year and yet the game still does not use dedicate servers and runs horribly online. Where does all this money go?! If Activision is anything like Riot Games, then according to the tweets of at least one very happy girlfriend, it goes towards buying sports cars, fine dining, and expensive jewelry.

There are no words for the stupidity on display in this text.
 
The girlfriend of a fairly prominent game developer (who shall both remain nameless for the sake of privacy) recently tweeted that she was having a bad day because she ran over the curb while driving his $70,000 sports car around the city..

Cliff_Bleszinski.jpg

Believe. He's mentioned in the article as a way to throw people off.
 
I couldn't even make it through the article before bullshit was screaming through my head. I wish I was making "too much". Not every game developer is driving around nor could afford a $70,000 sports car.

Why is he comparing a software developer to a police officer? Why not compare them to other software developers? On average you make more doing the same job in another industry than the game industry.
 

Deraldin

Unconfirmed Member
So money that is spent paying developer salaries is not money that is being put towards the development of the game? Am I reading this right?
 

jtb

Banned
isn't the examiner just a glorified blog that anyone can post stuff on? I wouldn't even consider this newsworthy.

via wikipedia:
"They're blogs. They don't get edited. We don't give any direction to people on what to write in their blogs. And that's standard operating procedure."

just an idiot with a soapbox. nothing to see here.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
$81,000 for an educated, skilled technically-oriented employee on the coasts... It's not an obscene amount of money.
 

antitrop

Member
just an idiot with a soapbox. nothing to see here.
Oh, thank fuck. I was legitimately upset for a minute there when I was under the assumption that the author may have received some kind of monetary compensation for his efforts instead of a sleeper choke.
 

JordanN

Banned
One of my future professions [Environment Artist], only seems to net $40,000 before 3 years experience. That doesn't seem like alot.

I think it's the programmers that make alot more but that's deserved because of the experience behind it.
 
Programmers, and those of any STEM career tend to be paid alot.

I wonder how it ranks against other types of software development? The developers I work with all earn over $100k.
I have a couple uncles who are in software development, they do over 100k as well.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I just worked on a game that has 4.5 million users.

Youre goddamn right I deserve to be compensated.

Also, most people on the game industry make little money. All these averages I see on magazines and polls are pretty off the mark.
 

Whools

Member
I saw Jim Sterling tweet this earlier, didn't read it til know. Wow this guy is a moron, It reads like satire, but apparently he's serious...
 

stufte

Member
I just worked on a game that has 4.5 million users.

Youre goddamn right I deserve to be compensated.

Also, most people on the game industry make little money. All these averages I see on magazines and polls are pretty off the mark.

Fucking-A right. I work my ass off, and it's of no ones concern what I do with the money I make. The only asshole in this is the guy whining about what people who aren't him make a year.

Why are developers making so much money? Their job isn't life threatening like a police officer's is and it's not important to the future of the nation like a teacher's job is. It might be tedious or even grueling at times and require long hours and lots of commitment, but working in the video game industry is generally fun. People should be working in the gaming industry because they want to create awesome games. Not because they want to become rich. When did the gaming industry become so corporate?

Yes, I do what I love. But I shouldn't make good money because it's not dangerous or because I should just be happy to create games? What in the actual fuck. I have a wife and kids that I'm trying to support, a house payment, car payment (not a sports car). FOR FUCKS SAKE.
 
Can someone tell this person what the difference between a dev and a pub is?

Dev spends years making a game with their blood, sweat and tears. Pub takes that game, throws a few million behind marketing and putting them into little boxes and then into store shelves.
 

bdouble

Member
haha dude is talking $10,000s when budgets are pushing $100,000,000 over a trilogy with marketing and profits in the billions.
 

androvsky

Member
$81,000 for an educated, skilled technically-oriented employee on the coasts... It's not an obscene amount of money.

It's... probably about average, at best. Considering game developers tend to be fairly highly skilled, I'd say it's probably low. I've got a computer science degree, and I've heard no shortage of rumors that the game companies get a discount on programmers because a lot of programmers fresh out of school are willing to take a pay cut to work on games.

And the actual hourly wage can be obscenely low for game programmers since they tend to be pushed to work "crunch" hours for quite a long time.
 

PG2G

Member
I have always been under the impression that game developers get paid less and work longer hours than most other software developers. That is the entire reason I decided I didn't want to do it when I started school
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
"But guys, if everyone was paid less shit would be cheaper!"
Yes, sherlock. Apply that to everything and you get runaway deflation.
 

Vestal

Gold Member
This article is just. Wow....

you can make the argument that software developers are underpaid. Still remember my former roommate who worked at Tiburon working 16-20hr days 7 days a week during crunch. This was back on 2003.

fyi Tiburon =madden. He worked on the menu system redesign for them back then
 
Kinda doubt that Riot Games is very representative of the industry at large right now. I doubt very many THQ employees were buying $70k sports cars last year.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
This article is just. Wow....

you can make the argument that software developers are underpaid. Still remember my former roommate who worked at Tiburon working 16-20hr days 7 days a week during crunch. This was back on 2003.

fyi Tiburon =madden. He worked on the menu system redesign for them back then

Ah yeah, I have friends who worked there, Im pretty sure the basic artist salary was 45k
 

Iksenpets

Banned
No idea how legit this is, but first result on a Google search says that the average person with a computer science degree is making 110K+ at the midpoint of their career. http://www.studentsreview.com/salary_by_major.php3

Don't really think these salaries are out of line at all. You're dealing with people who both hold technical degrees and who are developing hit media, both of which come with expectations of high pay.
 

antitrop

Member
This is one of the dumbest articles I have ever read.
It absolutely is. The non-existent level of understanding of not only the gaming industry, but even basic economics, is fairly astounding.

This article was clearly written by a young high school student.
EDIT: I clicked on his name in the article and it states he has a Bachelor's Degree. :(
 

LakeEarth

Member
I thought this would be about the quantity of games being made, not how much developers made. Programmers, artists, etc are a skilled profession. It takes training, talent and skill. You don't get that for minimum wage.
 
It's about having a unique skill set along with the talent to implement those skills, thus creating an engaging, interactive, yet fun piece of art. Not everyone can do this.

Almost anyone can be a cop. Takes very little education and a disregard for your own personal safety.

A teacher...Not everyone can do this, but our society does not actually value education. Lip service will say it does but money talks so we know the real story.
 

antonz

Member
Kinda doubt that Riot Games is very representative of the industry at large right now. I doubt very many THQ employees were buying $70k sports cars last year.

Hell even if they were. Game Developers and Designers are putting in some serious hours most employees in other jobs will never see. Even if the average developer made 100K a year. The odds are if you added up all the hours they put in including crunch time etc. they would not be making some mindblowing amount per hour
 

antitrop

Member
I also like how the premise of his entire article is based off of what car the developer of a game drives, as if that is directly correlated to his income.

Would you like to have a conversation about people, specifically Americans, buying things they can't afford? I can show you my bank account. I can show you my credit card statements. I can show you my possessions.

It would probably make you laugh.
 

Oersted

Member
Best part:

Former Epic Games design director Cliff Bleszinski (perhaps known best for working on Gears of War) even supported Microsoft's previous Xbox One policy of restricting used games when he tweeted, "You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing."

Perhaps not, but why are game budgets so high anyway?
 

kvothe

Member
I also like how the premise of his entire article is based off of what car the developer of a game drives, as if that is directly correlated to his income.

Would you like to have a conversation about people, specifically Americans, buying things they can't afford? I can show you my bank account. I can show you my credit card statements. I can show you my possessions.

It would probably make you laugh.

And this is besides the fact that there is a huge range of salaries in game devs. It's as if someone points to Steven Spielburg's income as representative of every filmmaker's income, including indies. LoL has been incredibly successful, that doesn't mean every game ever made produces the same sort of revenue.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I wonder how it ranks against other types of software development? The developers I work with all earn over $100k.

Being a programmer in game development is harder and requires more hours for not much more (if any more) pay. $81,000/yr is really not a lot of money.

What if these numbers were cut in half?

BWAHAHAHAHA.

Any programmers wanna work 100 hours a week and only earn $40,000/yr?
 
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