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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water

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Well, there's something positive.

I suspect both XOne and PS4 devs are gonna use Partial Resident Textures very soon, and suddenly they will have a lot more free memory to use for other things than hi-res textures, which If I'm not wrong are the most memory intensive thing in games today.

EDIT: look at that from the DF's killzone shadow fall article:

System Memory (1536MB Total)
Sound: 553MB
Havok Scratch: 350MB
Game Heap: 318MB
Various Assets/Entities: 143MB
Animation: 75MB
Executable/Stack: 74MB
LUA Script: 6MB
Particle Buffer: 6MB
AI Data: 6MB
Physics Meshes: 5MB

Shared Memory (CPU/GPU - 128MB)
Display list (2x): 64MB
GPU Scratch: 32MB
Streaming Pool: 18MB
CPU Scratch: 12MB
Queries/Labels: 2MB

Video Memory (3072MB)
Non-Streaming Textures: 1321MB
Render Targets: 800MB
Streaming Pool (1.6GB of streaming data): 572MB
Meshes: 315MB
CUE Heap (49x): 32MB
ES-GS Buffer: 16MB
GS-VS Buffer: 16MB


That's a whole 3 gigs of memory for textures, even without using MSAA (Killzone uses FXAA). How could Partial Memory Textures (PRT) reduce that amount? half amount? tenth amount?

EDIT 2: according to Microsoft DirectX 11.2 Mars demo showing Tiled resources (aka PRT) the terrain had massive 3 gb of textures using just a ridiculous 16mb of GPU memory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0VKmk5bmI
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
the giant GDDR5 pool was the last remnant of kutaragian magic to the machine. any accusations of modest specs, conservative design and a less than stellar leap were swept under the cognitive rug by the broom of GDDR5 majesty.

i think this is why it's hitting some people so hard. 4.5GBs is much more in line with the rest of the machine's gaming capabilities.
 
Regardless of how much RAM the PS4 has, the games look incredible. As long as Sony continues to push out amazing exclusives, I'm positive that they'll be OK!
 

R3TRODYCE

Member
fSWVuLU.png


Seems like an apt summary of the last few days.

lol
 
At NeoGAF War changes like the wind. Its a neverending struggle, a neverending story of death, canceled preorders, and more tears then there is water in the ocean.GameFaqs, and the N4G comments sections would be proud.


People may fall but they will fall fighting for what they believe. Almost makes me well up thinking about it.
 

Sethos

Banned
You can absolutely not be serious. Did it ever occur in your small console mind that RAM is not the primary defining factor in determining power? Has playing at 480p all these years atrophied your mind to the point that you're willing to accept anything your fellow N console zealots spew about RAM being the one and only spec in the world you should care about? Your type is seriously damaging the level of discourse on here when anything technically minded comes up and it would behoove you to go read up on the basics of console hardware and maybe then you would begin to understand that this 'weaker' PS4 absolutely destroys the tincan RAM in your overpriced box of choice.

Whoa man, what's with the blatant attack on the truth? People around here are so afraid of some truth. Did it ever occur to you the reason why people keep talking about RAM, why developers keep harping on about is because RAM is important!

With the new architecture of the consoles, RAM is more important than ever and is the defining factor in sheer raw performance. I've built PCs with RAM for many years now and I might be better positioned to comment on this stuff than you or most of GAF. I just think it's pathetic that everyone flail their arms talking about 8GB GDDR5 for months and suddenly it's gone - We're basically at Xbox One levels of performance. Yet everyone try to excuse it with "OH STILL MOAR RAM THAN XBOX ONE" and "STILL PLENTY OF RAM, NO ONE NEEDS THAT MUCH!!" - Just excuses and pre-orders remorse.

Sony giveth, and Sony taketh away
 

Croyles

Member
People may fall but they will fall fighting for what they believe. Almost makes me well up thinking about it.

Until you realize it's about a gaming console, look outside your window, and see the sun shining. :)

I think I'll go for a bike ride.

Whoa man, what's with the blatant attack on the truth? People around here are so afraid of some truth. Did it ever occur to you the reason why people keep talking about RAM, why developers keep harping on about is because RAM is important!

With the new architecture of the consoles, RAM is more important than ever and is the defining factor in sheer raw performance. I've built PCs with RAM for many years now and I might be better positioned to comment on this stuff than you or most of GAF. I just think it's pathetic that everyone flail their arms talking about 8GB GDDR5 for months and suddenly it's gone - We're basically at Xbox One levels of performance. Yet everyone try to excuse it with "OH STILL MOAR RAM THAN XBOX ONE" and "STILL PLENTY OF RAM, NO ONE NEEDS THAT MUCH!!" - Just excuses and pre-orders remorse.

Sony giveth, and Sony taketh away

Nice :)
 

FZZ

Banned
The BIT wars have ended my friend, the RAM wars have only just begun. War has changed.

Ahh of course, I eagerly await the day when a console's power is measured by how many nanomachines it has, that will signify when we have reached TRUE NEXT GEN.

You can absolutely not be serious. Did it ever occur in your small console mind that RAM is not the primary defining factor in determining power? Has playing at 480p all these years atrophied your mind to the point that you're willing to accept anything your fellow N console zealots spew about RAM being the one and only spec in the world you should care about? Your type is seriously damaging the level of discourse on here when anything technically minded comes up and it would behoove you to go read up on the basics of console hardware and maybe then you would begin to understand that this 'weaker' PS4 absolutely destroys the tincan RAM in your overpriced box of choice.

He was just making a yolk man, no need to be angry.
 

bootski

Member
10/10

To be fair, at least the "XB1 uses 3gb for it's OS hurr durr" argument is over, because it was stupid to begin with. There were a lot valid criticisms of the XB1 before they reversed all their policies, their use of RAM wasn't really one of them.

Technically, both consoles seem to be very similar in my opinion, but I admit I am pretty much clueless when it comes to technical details.

agreed. of all the xbox hate that erupted from the internets in the last couple months, i had not ever read anything about its ram allocation until the ps4 killzone ram thread. now that may be that i don't really follow xbox news but from what i saw the ire was directed at the used games and always online thing, wasn't it?
 

SparkTR

Member
the giant GDDR5 pool was the last remnant of kutaragian magic to the machine. any accusations of modest specs, conservative design and a less than stellar leap were swept under the cognitive rug by the broom of GDDR5 majesty.

i think this is why it's hitting some people so hard. 4.5GBs is much more in line with the rest of the machine's gaming capabilities.

It's only disappointing compared to high end PC specs, compared to everything else (incl. XB1) it's great.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Whoa man, what's with the blatant attack on the truth? People around here are so afraid of some truth. Did it ever occur to you the reason why people keep talking about RAM, why developers keep harping on about is because RAM is important!

With the new architecture of the consoles, RAM is more important than ever and is the defining factor in sheer raw performance. I've built PCs with RAM for many years now and I might be better positioned to comment on this stuff than you or most of GAF. I just think it's pathetic that everyone flail their arms talking about 8GB GDDR5 for months and suddenly it's gone - We're basically at Xbox One levels of performance. Yet everyone try to excuse it with "OH STILL MOAR RAM THAN XBOX ONE" and "STILL PLENTY OF RAM, NO ONE NEEDS THAT MUCH!!" - Just excuses and pre-orders remorse.

Sony giveth, and Sony taketh away

Exactly this isn't about if it's more powerful than Xbox One, of course it still is better than Xbox One as it has better GPU flops and better RAM as well as being cheaper system. But that's not the point, I still am getting a PS4 but it is disappointing that the RAM os now 4.5 instead of 6.5 which I assumed.
 

Hydrargyrus

Member
I think i'm going to cancel the preorder and it's not a joke.

I won't go to preorder a Xbox One, because it is a complete mess, but I was expecting that PS4 would be a console.

For what I see, the PS4 almost reserve half of the RAM for things that I don't give a shit about.

I want to pay for a console. I'm not going to pay 3'5GB of GDDR5 (that is very expensive) for things that I don't care about.
Maybe I'm getting older, but this kind of shit is not for me anymore.

It's not the price, nor the games or even the memory. Is the concept and paying for things that I don't like.
When MS announced Xbox one with all this TV, cloud and blah blah, I said, this is not for me. But PS4 was presented as "the console of gamers, made for gamers".

I don't know any gamer that say "oh, please, put another 2'5GB of GDDR5 for OS stuff instead of using it in games!!"
 

CoG

Member
How much memory required for 15 minutes 1080p footage? This must 1 reason so much memory is reserved...

That's not how it works. There would only a small memory buffer to handle a few seconds of compressed video before it's streamed off to disk. Basically a 1080p frame is taken from the framebuffer, sent to a core to be encoded to a YouTube quality mp4 frame and that buffer is flushed every few seconds. A few seconds of compressed video is a few megabytes.
 
There's no reason they couldn't just store that on the HDD.
There's plenty of reasons. Seek times for actual game data would be terrible if you are writing video at every second. You also run a huge risk of damaging the hdd. Volitile memory is a lot better and safer.
 
10/10

To be fair, at least the "XB1 uses 3gb for it's OS hurr durr" argument is over, because it was stupid to begin with. There were a lot valid criticisms of the XB1 before they reversed all their policies, their use of RAM wasn't really one of them.

Technically, both consoles seem to be very similar in my opinion, but I admit I am pretty much clueless when it comes to technical details.

Holy shit, this.

I don't know if people understand this, but individually, both consoles have more RAM available to them than every other console in every previous generation combined, while likely having superior OSes that will be snappier and more responsive and feature capable than anything we've seen yet. It's up to both Sony and MS to make good use of this, but there's goddamn plenty of room for developers to make magic happen on both systems.

PS4 might have an edge with the GPU and the speed of the RAM, but at the end of the day it's ALWAYS going to come down to games. Play whatever the fuck you want guys, but have some perspective.
 

Hystzen

Member
Oh god I so wish Sony would come out and show this is bullshit lol

the people who legit cancelled pre orders going be gutted

That would be icing on the cake of the past 2 days of madness but if true meh PS3 produced some quality first party titles that was gorgeous be interesting see what happens on PS4
 

GodofWine

Member
Wow...I didn't think I'd see another thread on this when I woke up....but alas...


Still changes nothing in terms of how the consoles rank in terms of potential.

Why would people cancel a pre order, when the console is still by far the more potent option....GAF is unstable
 

CoG

Member
I want to pay for a console. I'm not going to pay 3'5GB of GDDR5 (that is very expensive) for things that I don't care about.
Maybe I'm getting older, but this kind of shit is not for me anymore.

Your problem is you can't see the forest for the trees. You need to step back and ask yourself if any of this bullshit is actually going to affect the games.

Hint: It's not.
 

Mung

Member
I think i'm going to cancel the preorder and it's not a joke.

I won't go to preorder a Xbox One, because it is a complete mess, but I was expecting that PS4 would be a console.

For what I see, the PS4 almost reserve half of the RAM for things that I don't give a shit about.

I want to pay for a console. I'm not going to pay 3'5GB of GDDR5 (that is very expensive) for things that I don't care about.
Maybe I'm getting older, but this kind of shit is not for me anymore.

It's not the price, nor the games or even the memory. Is the concept and paying for things that I don't like.
When MS announced Xbox one with all this TV, cloud and blah blah, I said, this is not for me. But PS4 was presented as "the console of gamers, made for gamers".

I don't know any gamer that say "oh, please, put another 2'5GB of GDDR5 for OS stuff instead of using it in games!!"

I remember when people used to buy consoles to have fun. I miss those days of innocence.

Now its just - Less RAM available to devs than I thought? Preorder cancelled!
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS4 hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS4. Sony has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in a PS4. Except if they want to play Killzone. Which will also come to Xbox One at some point.

The age of Sony is done.
I can't believe you got someone with this. It's so famous! But maybe that's just a whole different kind of level where I'm being trolled for others trolling in tandem.

I laughed out loud though. Great call back.
 

Riky

$MSFT
I'm keeping my pre order, mainly because I just want to play Killzone and unless somebody told me I would have no idea if it was using 4.5gb or 7 gb of Ram.
 
So yesterday it was 4.5GB plus 1GB for devs making it 5.5 GB .
Now today it's 4.5GB plus 512 MB for devs making it the 5GB.
Wonder what it going to be later on next week and this also goes against the info from insiders yesterday .
Well i along for the ride either way .
 

hodgy100

Member
Whoa man, what's with the blatant attack on the truth? People around here are so afraid of some truth. Did it ever occur to you the reason why people keep talking about RAM, why developers keep harping on about is because RAM is important!

With the new architecture of the consoles, RAM is more important than ever and is the defining factor in sheer raw performance. I've built PCs with RAM for many years now and I might be better positioned to comment on this stuff than you or most of GAF. I just think it's pathetic that everyone flail their arms talking about 8GB GDDR5 for months and suddenly it's gone - We're basically at Xbox One levels of performance. Yet everyone try to excuse it with "OH STILL MOAR RAM THAN XBOX ONE" and "STILL PLENTY OF RAM, NO ONE NEEDS THAT MUCH!!" - Just excuses and pre-orders remorse.

Sony giveth, and Sony taketh away

this is a troll right?

Yes ram is important but amount of ram does not dictate the performance of the machine unless the amount of RAM is restrictive (512 split pool for example) 5GB of ram is not a restrictive amount at this moment in time, it may be in the future but hopefully by then (assuming this is true) Sony will have free'd up some of this reserved memory, it happened with the PS3 after-all no reason the same couldn't happen here.

Remember Ram allows for higher resolution textures , higher resolution shadow-maps, higher resolution full stop, it also allows for more objects to be loaded in at once hence a larger world with perhaps more detail, but only to the point where the GPU and CPU can process and render it all fast enough. its a fine balancing act.
 

6.8

Member
I'm going to pre-order a PS4 based on this news. I want a set up box device, consoles as we knew them without a rich experience are dead. I want to do more on my TV and so do everyone. This along with my xbox 1 will make my TV a better device. Please, if you want sony, take 4.5G for yourself and only leave 3.5G for the developers. They can figure out how to optimize stuff themselves while you make the PS4 better. That would give ps4 a upper hand for so many awesome things.
 
What the heck do they need so damn much RAM for the OS only, I don't want a bunch of multimedia features, I have that on all of my other devices, I only want to play games. No wonder the PS4 exclusives has such a hard time to reach 60FPS at 1080P. Stupid Sony following in Microsoft's footsteps. All that RAM increase for nothing but useless features. Meh.
 
All in all, people FAIL to see a positive in these OS footprint articles....
Imagine if Occulus support can be built into PS4 within the confines of the OS ram :).

In any case, I cant wait till I get my hands on this beast, Sony knows best :)
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
True but if you're streaming in game data and saving out video at the same time, it's going to much slower streaming in data.
That would be true if they didn't have dedicated hardware for video encoding and an extra ARM (presumed) processor to handle the actual streaming.

Developers have said there being 0 performance penalty for the sharing stuff was great.
 

Audioboxer

Member
this is a troll right?

Yes ram is important but amount of ram does not dictate the performance of the machine unless the amount of RAM is ristrictive (512 split pool for example) 5gb of ram is not a restrictive amount at this moment in time, it may be in the future but hopefully by then (assuming this is true) sony will have free'd up some of this reserved memory, it happened with the PS3 after-all no reason the same couldnt happen here.

I've known Sethos for a long time, he always posts his true feelings.
 

Salaadin

Member
I think i'm going to cancel the preorder and it's not a joke.

I won't go to preorder a Xbox One, because it is a complete mess, but I was expecting that PS4 would be a console.

For what I see, the PS4 almost reserve half of the RAM for things that I don't give a shit about.

I want to pay for a console. I'm not going to pay 3'5GB of GDDR5 (that is very expensive) for things that I don't care about.
Maybe I'm getting older, but this kind of shit is not for me anymore.

It's not the price, nor the games or even the memory. Is the concept and paying for things that I don't like.
When MS announced Xbox one with all this TV, cloud and blah blah, I said, this is not for me. But PS4 was presented as "the console of gamers, made for gamers".

I don't know any gamer that say "oh, please, put another 2'5GB of GDDR5 for OS stuff instead of using it in games!!"

I wouldnt jump the gun yet. Just yesterday, we had some proven insiders saying that these numbers DF had were flat out wrong.
Either way, its probably smart of them to reserve some to avoid issues like they had this gen, where they couldnt add features because of the lack of ram.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
I wouldnt jump the gun yet. Just yesterday, we had some proven insiders saying that these numbers DF had were flat out wrong.
Either way, its probably smart of them to reserve some to avoid issues like they had this gen, where they couldnt add features because of the lack of ram.
Which proven insider said that the numbers were flat out wrong?
 
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