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[Oemenia]

Looks like DF was on to something after all.

Nah bro they are just biased!

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

So now we just gonna play ignorant. This has been the thought pattern for months.

Not playing ignorant. I've been following the PS4 scene since February, and not once did Sony ever mention how the 8GB GDDR5 would be allocated. I never assumed it would be a 7/1 split, either. I'm actually one who waits on official confirmation of such things before having the "thought pattern" that's been going on for months, apparently. Or whatever that is.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Glad they didn't comment on the memory split.

It kinda makes me feel I was right in thinking these things are CONSTANTLY changing pre-launch, and taking one set of documentation (previous versions of which have offered massively different values) as definitive confirmation (along with developer sources probably working from said documentation), is not actually finalised.

Final devkits next year, when the OS has been set in stone pretty firmly, the documentation and dev environment is a little more mature then we'll hear what a final split is.

 

[Nightengale]

lol. Sony is making this a bigger deal than it is with a comment like that. Why are they acting like they are 'hiding' information?

"We do not comment on blahblahblah" is standard corporate spiel, regardless if false or true.

Besides, the ball is on Sony's court right now. It's pretty much confirmed that devs have access to 4.5GB at the moment (5 incl. flex), based on insider's confirmation,etc.

But this doesn't mean that the PS4 OS will take up is 3.5 GB of RAM. At the moment, it's merely an allocation reserve that they're both future-proofing as well as 'optimising.'

We'll need an actual engineer in the PS4 OS team to leak information if we want to know anymore on this.

 

[nib95]

So does X1 have more RAM for devs than PS4? And if so, does the advantages of GDDR5 equal it out or still make it better than X1s specs (in theory of course).

They have exactly the same at the moment. Both offer 5GB ram for the devs. Only the PS4's has 3x more bandwidth, and the GPU is 50% more powerful.

 

[Grinchy]

It really makes you wonder if the system only had 4GB of ram like it was originally rumored, would that mean only 1-2GB could be used for games?

 

[Rebel Leader]

So does X1 have more RAM for devs than PS4? And if so, does the advantages of GDDR5 equal it out or still make it better than X1s specs (in theory of course).

It's the same amount for games. Both are 5 GB

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Why do people think that Digital Foundry are microsoft fanboys?, is it because they say that most multiplatform games this gen were better on 360?, well i'll let you into a little secret, they were!.
Its hardly proof of them being Xbox fanboys when they are stating facts really.

It's mostly Sony fanboys who think that and they're easily ignored

 

[onQ123]

What is that supposed to convey?

wat

Can you explain more on this?

on the graphics side of things

if the memory is 176GB/s & the game is 60FPS the most memory that the game will need at a giving time/frame is 2.93GB & if the game is 30FPS you wouldn't use any more than 5.86GB per frame.


in other words you can't move 8GB of data each frame with 176GB/s unless the game was 22FPS so why not put the other GB of ram to use with the OS?

 

[R3TRODYCE]

After months of constant "teh shitbox is crap, 3gig of teh ram for the os lol!!!" style posts, its funny seeing the problem kind of dissapear in this thread now PS4 is in a similar situation.
This gif says it best -

lol...Great movie.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

lol. Sony is making this a bigger deal than it is with a comment like that. Why are they acting like they are 'hiding' information?

They aren't acting. They want to get the story straight once. Not twice or three times so that they have to back pedal when someone in the company doesn't know what they are talking about and makes the entire company look incompetent. Some of you guys are so use to double speak that you expect it from everyone now. Is speaking correctly a thing of the past now? Wow.

 

[tsumineko]

Hahahahaha holy shit. Sony needs to talk numbers. If they have only 5gb for games, without the "three OSes" the Xbone is running, that's sad.

 

[RoboPlato]

So, how did Microsoft and Sony BOTH decide on 5GB for developers?

Microsoft decided on it, Sony realized that they didn't need to worry about OS footprint when they went up to 8GB so they're just playing it safe with the reserve in case they need to add features later on. All multiplat games will be aiming at 5GB anyway and PS4 still has a large bandwidth advantage. It's annoying but it makes sense.

 

[Certinty]

I would think remote play would be taking quite a fair amount of the 3.5GB?

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Sony was the gamers choice when they had 4gigs of ram and they are still the gamers choice with 5 gigs of ram dedicated to gaming Still disappointing news but laughably better than the competition at 100 dollars cheaper.

"The gamers choice"

Wouldn't a gamer not want to limit themselves to one system?

 

[mugurumakensei]

But what is the amount of flex mem Sony confirms? yesterday's 1GD or today 512GB?

So 5-3 or 5.5-2.5 ??

1GB. 512 MB is physical ram. The other 512 MB is swap space (ie it's paged onto the hard drive)

 

[longdi]

Why do games need more than 4 anyways? At least there should be no escuse why the OS is running slow

why do the ps4 OS need 3gb anyway?
the speed of the OS is also down to the storage media and ps4 is not equipped with a SSD default.

i dont get the more ram reserved = longevity. the 2 low speed jaguar cores and hdd wont help much.

but i blame the iphone/facebook/android crowd. blah blah blah personal computing, always on social media, casual candy crushing....the expectation to build a next gen console is downgraded to fit this new group of people who dont care about intrinsic quality of the game console. its all about the beats headphone 256kbps mp3 dudebros..

 

[Calibus]

It seems at this point that what each console will objectively end up offering us is being overshadowed by the console wars themselves. The meta of what each console represents seems to drive people's passions more than reality. But hey, nature of the beast and all that.


Also, I must be behind on my memes, but what is the below in reference to? A previous post on GAF, or elsewhere on the internet? Anyone have a link to the original?

It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS4 hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS4. Sony has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in a PS4. Except if they want to play Killzone. Which will also come to Xbox One at some point.

The age of Sony is done.

 

[jordan0386]

Not playing ignorant. I've been following the PS4 scene since February, and not once did Sony ever mention how the 8GB GDDR5 would be allocated. I never assumed it would be a 7/1 split, either. I'm actually one who waits on official confirmation of such things before having the "thought pattern" that's been going on for months, apparently. Or whatever that is.

Then I apologize to you.

 

[Kuro]

I think its hilarious people are getting upset and canceling pre-orders over 1-2gb of RAM. Are they PS4 game developers now and know how much RAM is needed for a game? 5gb is more than enough and Sony can always unlock more RAM as the OS footprint is reduced. I still don't see how this is an issue with people. So much drama over nothing.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

Nah bro they are just biased!

Giggidy.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I would think remote play would be taking quite a fair amount of the 3.5GB?

I say the constant video capture take most of it.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

At what point in the history of consoles has it even been important or prevalent enough for manufacturers to discuss memory allocations? Never has it mattered and it continues to hold true. Devs will have the say anyways and as time goes, things will change on both consoles. This is the biggest non issue I've seen made into something in a long time. It's genuinely frustrating.

It's apparently very important for next gen. I don't see the problem either, so long as the games look good and the OS for both consoles isn't slow, laggy and everything works as promised, who really cares?

I think people have become too focused/invested in the numbers wars. Pretty sad when you think about it. We got some amazing looking games this gen and that was with less than 500mb of ram and pretty outdated GPU's, developers now have 10x the ram and more powerful GPU's, why does it matter if they have 5 or 7gb of ram? Consoles have evolved far beyond just being games machines, if people want a pure gaming machine, the Wii U is available to cater to their needs.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

So, now Sony doesn't want to talk specific numbers, hn?

Means nothing. When has any console manufacturer ever gone into detail on memory allocations? When have you as a consumer been so invested in development where it really affects you? The devs work with what's there and the gamers play the games. This is more laughable because these types of things are being hammered out right now and aren't final. More substantially, devs have no issue with this.

Show me one developer who is complaining about the ram situation on the PS4 and then I'll give a damn.

When the memory usage is very similar across both platforms, it won't be a distinct PS4 "problem". Memory constraints come into play on all platforms and devs find ways to work around the limitations. In the case of next gen platforms, there's a hell of a lot of breathing room to make the games devs want. Even with the paltry 5GB allocations both next gen platforms share.

It's apparently very important for next gen. I don't see the problem either, so long as the games look good and the OS for both consoles isn't slow, laggy and everything works as promised, who really cares?

I think people have become too focused/invested in the numbers wars. Pretty sad when you think about it. We got some amazing looking games this gen and that was with less than 500mb of ram and pretty outdated GPU's, developers now have 10x the ram and more powerful GPU's, why does it matter if they have 5 or 7gb of ram? Consoles have evolved far beyond just being games machines, if people want a pure gaming machine, the Wii U is available to cater to their needs.

What can I say, I agree.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

on the graphics side of things

if the memory is 176GB/s & the game is 60FPS the most memory that the game will need at a giving time/frame is 2.93GB & if the game is 30FPS you wouldn't use any more than 5.86GB per frame.


in other words you can't move 8GB of data each frame with 176GB/s unless the game was 22FPS so why not use put the other GB of ram to use with the OS?

they don't understand how you got to that fact and you need to explain it, why does 60 fps require less ram

 

[Slayven]

I can't believe folks are losing their damn minds over this. I mean look at the shit they were able to do with 512 megs of ram. Do people have such little faith in developers?

 

[Raymo]

It seems at this point that what each console will objectively end up offering us is being overshadowed by the console wars themselves. The meta of what each console represents seems to drive people's passions more than reality. But hey, nature of the beast and all that.


Also, I must be behind on my memes, but what is the below in reference to? A previous post on GAF, or elsewhere on the internet? Anyone have a link to the original?

Old Amir0x post I believe.

 

[moai]

"The gamers choice"

Wouldn't a gamer not want to limit themselves to one system?

not all people can afford al three consoles. ps4 seems the best option as multiplatforms are bound to be better at some point.

 

[mugurumakensei]

why do the ps4 OS need 3gb anyway?
the speed of the OS is also down to the storage media and ps4 is not equipped with a SSD default

Lol. Boot up speed and program launching is improved by a SSD. However, transitions, actual processing, etc are not influenced at all by SSD but by RAM.

 

[valkillmore]

Uh, I haven't read through the three meltdown threads, but aren't there any people out there who are actually PRAISING Sony for doing this? Think about it: Cerny went to the devs direct and asked them what they wanted in a next gen console. Do you not think that there are some long-term benefits to reserving that amount of RAM for OS functionality that some forward thinking devs may have brought up during the Sony team's research?

I applaud those on this forum who are dismissing the so-called 'armchair developers' here, criticizing Sony for their decision making. Bold moves must be made to innovate. Also, wasn't there a dev who was recently quoted as saying he simply didn't know what the hell to do with all that RAM? We can now assume he was in fact talking about the 4.5 or 5 GB, not the full 7GB we thought they had access to, correct? Please someone link to that quote, I cannot recall who it was who said it.

I'll even applaud Microsoft for making Kinect mandatory. Who knows what kind of amazing applications/games we'll get as a result of that. Just the same, who knows what kind of interesting, unanticipated benefits reserving that amount of RAM for OS will have not just at launch, but long-term.

I for one couldn't be more thrilled for the PS4 and this news does nothing to change that, except to further my excitement.

 

[Kuro]

It seems at this point that what each console will objectively end up offering us is being overshadowed by the console wars themselves. The meta of what each console represents seems to drive people's passions more than reality. But hey, nature of the beast and all that.


Also, I must be behind on my memes, but what is the below in reference to? A previous post on GAF, or elsewhere on the internet? Anyone have a link to the original?

Its a post by Amir0x back in 06 I think where he thought the PS3 was dead. Don't have the link to it.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Why does sony need that much reserved if ps4 isn't even a decent multimedia device?

You have used the multimedia functions of the PS4? Where's your assessment of its capabilities?

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Not playing ignorant. I've been following the PS4 scene since February, and not once did Sony ever mention how the 8GB GDDR5 would be allocated. I never assumed it would be a 7/1 split, either. I'm actually one who waits on official confirmation of such things before having the "thought pattern" that's been going on for months, apparently. Or whatever that is.

Ignore this guy. He's acting like someone owes him something because he listened to all the wrong people and got influenced by i-think-i-know-it-alls and feels let down. He should of stayed home and listen to facts before jumping on bandwagons.

 

[Croyles]

Maybe games would be bottlenecked by the GPU and CPU long before the amount of RAM mattered anyway.

That's actually quite likely.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

they don't understand how you got to that fact and you need to explain it, why does 60 fps require less ram

2.93x2=5.86

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Sony hyped themselves as being the gamers' choice. They made a big deal about having 8GB of RAM. Now it's come out that they're guaranteeing developers less memory than their "all-in-one" competitor. Based on DF's article, they're earmarking 1-2GB of RAM to literally do nothing at the moment.

For me, this confirms that Sony's OS development is just as sloppy as last gen, perhaps even more so. Sony's made great strides in terms of efficient hardware design, but it seems like they've gone backwards when it comes to software. How exactly is this confidence inspiring? Especially when we've barely seen the OS at work? Info like this makes me doubt their ability to deliver on all the functionality they promised back in February.

How credible is DF, really? I've been thinking about it, and it just seems odd that this site and Eurogamer are the ones getting info on this. All the leaks for the systems were either from VGLeaks, Edge, or Polygon....don't remember DF and Eurogamer having much insider info at that point. Did all the leakers suddenly go over to these sites?

Neverminding DF fucking up with the "several = seven" stuff regarding PS4's recording time. A site that can't understand that the two words aren't mutually exclusive (several being an implication of many, but not necessarily-or literally-seven...this is basic stuff really) doesn't garner my trust.

I'll wait until something comes straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[DR2K]

Still too little.

 

[jWILL253]

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait!

So... a day after they release an article on a rumor that makes no sense and is based on old Powerpoint slides, they release another article based on info from a beyond3D poster? And this article says that the "flex" ram is half a gig instead of a gig like their last article?

LMAO. Yo, Digital Foundry and Eurogamer can go fuck right off. From this point on, I'm gonna assume that, unless your name is CBoaT, any "insider" is completely full of shit.

I'm gonna wait for Sony to comment. You all can engage in this carnival of stupid if you want, but I'm not falling for this blatant click-baiting. Have fun, Xbots and Sony fans...

EDIT: Okay, Sony commented. No hard numbers. Still, Eurogamer and DF are obviously click-baiting and pulling sources out of their asses...

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

So, now Sony doesn't want to talk specific numbers, hn?

Why would they talk about a constantly evolving situation? The system isn't even out for another 4 months, why state numbers when numbers will undoubtedly change in SDK and OS updates?

It's not Sony's problem that MS dropped the amount they were roping off for their OS partition. The expectation that Sony should do the same "just because" is pretty ridiculous.

 

[need4speed]

Its a post by Amir0x back in 06 I think where he thought the PS3 was dead. Don't have the link to it.

Wasn't that about the FF XIII rant?

 

[longdi]

Lol. Boot up speed and program launching is improved by a SSD. However, transitions, actual processing, etc are not influenced at all by SSD but by RAM.

no way bro, unless ps4 is running photoshop kaz.gif multi-tasking while i play mgsV..
size of ram affects OS speeds lesser than say storage and cpu speed.

 

[BadHand]

I would like to think the only reason 3gb is allocated is because the OS is still in development. I don't think they would want to allocate too much RAM to devs for launch, only to have unstable games on day 1 because their OS isn't as efficient as they expected. I see this as Sony playing it safe until they finalize their OS functionality. PS4 OS 2.0 should see a reduction in RAM usage.

 

[jordan0386]

Uh, I haven't read through the three meltdown threads, but aren't there any people out there who are actually PRAISING Sony for doing this? Think about it: Cerny went to the devs direct and asked them what they wanted in a next gen console. Do you not think that there are some long-term benefits to reserving that amount of RAM for OS functionality that some forward thinking devs may have brought up during the Sony team's research?

I applaud those on this forum who are dismissing the so-called 'armchair developers' here, criticizing Sony for their decision making. Bold moves must be made to innovate. Also, wasn't there a dev who was recently quoted as saying he simply didn't know what the hell to do with all that RAM? We can now assume he was in fact talking about the 4.5 or 5 GB, not the full 7GB we thought they had access to, correct? Please someone link to that quote, I cannot recall who it was who said it.

I'll even applaud Microsoft for making Kinect mandatory. Who knows what kind of amazing applications/games we'll get as a result of that. Just the same, who knows what kind of interesting, unanticipated benefits reserving that amount of RAM for OS will have not just at launch, but long-term.

I for one couldn't be more thrilled for the PS4 and this news does nothing to change that, except to further my excitement.

How can anyone deny this has been the thought process for months on here? Now we have numbers. Cant say official though.

Some want to act like 7GB for games never was floating out there.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=538575&highlight=1gb+os This is 4/11/13

Perfect amount. Based Cerny.

It has been in brains, for months.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

You have used the multimedia functions of the PS4? Where's your assessment of its capabilities?

Hahaha

 

[Miles Quaritch]

What can I say, I agree.

We just need to wait it out. It'll soon calm down, probably a month or so before the consoles are released and people start to focus on the various previews, etc for the upcoming games, features, etc.

This whole mess will be a distant memory and we'll all be better for it.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait!

So... a day after they release an article on a rumor that makes no sense and is based on old Powerpoint slides, they release another article based on info from a beyond3D poster? And this article says that the "flex" ram is half a gig instead of a gig like their last article?

LMAO. Yo, Digital Foundry and Eurogamer can go fuck right off. From this point on, I'm gonna assume that, unless your name is CBoaT, any "insider" is completely full of shit.

I'm gonna wait for Sony to comment. You all can engage in this carnival of stupid if you want, but I'm not falling for this blatant click-baiting. Have fun, Xbots and Sony fans...

Sony have commented, dude. It's in this very OP.

And they have not mentioned any numbers.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Uh, I haven't read through the three meltdown threads, but aren't there any people out there who are actually PRAISING Sony for doing this? Think about it: Cerny went to the devs direct and asked them what they wanted in a next gen console. Do you not think that there are some long-term benefits to reserving that amount of RAM for OS functionality that some forward thinking devs may have brought up during the Sony team's research?

I applaud those on this forum who are dismissing the so-called 'armchair developers' here, criticizing Sony for their decision making. Bold moves must be made to innovate. Also, wasn't there a dev who was recently quoted as saying he simply didn't know what the hell to do with all that RAM? We can now assume he was in fact talking about the 4.5 or 5 GB, not the full 7GB we thought they had access to, correct? Please someone link to that quote, I cannot recall who it was who said it.

I'll even applaud Microsoft for making Kinect mandatory. Who knows what kind of amazing applications/games we'll get as a result of that. Just the same, who knows what kind of interesting, unanticipated benefits reserving that amount of RAM for OS will have not just at launch, but long-term.

I for one couldn't be more thrilled for the PS4 and this news does nothing to change that, except to further my excitement.

Why would anyone praise Sony for making a weaker system, especially one with even less of an advantage when it comes to multiplatform games than it had before? Developers CANNOT have been complaining about a missing 1GB of RAM. It makes no sense for Sony to make a huge deal about doubling the PS4's RAM, then turn around and only make 1GB of that actually usable. They got scared by Microsoft's 'goods and services' model and now we're paying for it with a weaker console.

 

[evilalien]

they don't understand how you got to that fact and you need to explain it, why does 60 fps require less ram

You are misunderstanding this completely; 60fps doesn't require less RAM, it just can't access as much ram per frame as 30fps can simply because it has half the time per frame.

 

[Can Crusher]

Thuway is basically saying that the hardware bump is smaller than previous gen and therefore the standard 16x jump in RAM amount is overkill. If we start theorizing what's good enough though, both MS and Nintendo have their arguments.

Next gen will be short with these puny specs. Fine by me, 5 year cycles are perfect.

 

[gruenel]

I would think remote play would be taking quite a fair amount of the 3.5GB?

Why would it? It's just sending a video stream (encoded by a dedicated chip) over the net, and receiving button presses. I'd be surprised if this took more than 50MB.