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Xbox One’s Game DVR, SmartMatch, NFL, TV Guide Restricted To Xbox Live Gold Members

Sony saw MS raking in the cash because people were buying their console for more than just games. How can you not see free apps as reactionary in order to make a PS3 with an inferior online ecosystem appear more attractive?

Are you being serious here? Because the first roku box was released in 2008 with netflix streaming. It didn't require a roku based subscription to use.

This set the precedent, Microsoft tried to change that precedent and failed because it is a stupid idea. Ultimately they lost the multimedia dominance you think they had because of that paywall.

I don't agree with this. In my opinion, comparing Xbox Live Gold to PSN immediately shows the difference in paying for something rather than getting it for free. I think we'll see the difference in PSN for PS4 as well.

And compare it to steam next and wonder why you are even paying at all.
 
Uploading the recorded footage, yes, that makes sense.

Merely recording offline gameplay, no, that should not be related to the online paywall.

And even that makes only sense if you have to upload it to a special Microsoft video site, and not to Youtube / Facebook etc. - and if this site doesn't offer better, gamer specific functionality, then this is pretty stupid.
 

FranXico

Member
but can't you just use one of those pieces of hardware like avermedia/dazzle/ or any other device that people who are serious about recording have been using for ages on xbox one?

But the X1 already has dedicated hardware for this, in the box. Shouldn't I be able to just save the video to the hard-drive and watch my gameplay again later whenever I feel like?

Expensive third party hardware should not be a replacement for something that has already been marketed as integral part of my gaming experience.
 

BigDug13

Member
Are you being serious here? Because the first roku box was released in 2008 with netflix streaming. It didn't require a roku based subscription to use.

This set the precedent, Microsoft tried to change that precedent and failed because it is a stupid idea. Ultimately they lost the multimedia dominance you think they had because of that paywall.

And MS thought they could do it because they thought they had signed an exclusive agreement with Netflix. And Netflix turned it around because they were allowed to release Netflix discs for Wii and PS3 and not breach their exclusivity contract with MS.

All I know is that I stopped paying for live Gold and it sucks that I now lost my bedroom Netflix streamer.
 

Portugeezer

Member
They weren't competing by making it free, they made it free because anything else is idiotic.

To your point in your other post about defending the PSN online pay wall making you a fanboy, I agree. Defending any paywall on multiplayer or otherwise does indeed a fanboy make. On both sides.
I don't necessarily agree. I think they have some reasons to have multiplayer behind a paywall, but do I think it's worth $60/$50 a year? No. (for the record I planned on getting PS+ on PS4 before they announced it was required for multiplayer so it won't affect me on PS4)

When XBL multiplayer was behind a paywall and PSN was free it made the paywall for XBL look bad (especially when flagship titles on XBL like Halo and Gears used p2p whereas PSN was free and used more dedicated servers for games).

Now that multiplayer is behind a paywall on both systems it makes it look not as bad.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Sony saw MS raking in the cash because people were buying their console for more than just games. How can you not see free apps as reactionary in order to make a PS3 with an inferior online ecosystem appear more attractive?

Are you serious?
Netflix is a paid service. It has apps to stream it's content on pretty much every multimedia device in existence.

The only one charging for access to these apps is Microsoft.
It's completely ridiculous that you actually think Sony was "reactionary" by doing the same thing as everyone else.
 

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
Or maybe it's because media apps are free on every iOS/Android/Windows 8 Smartphone & Tablet, AppleTV, Roku, PC/Laptop, SmartTV, & etc besides Xbox360/Xbox1.

That statement screams Xbox fanboy. Funny how Microsoft doesn't hide Apps behind a paywall on Windows 8.

Nearly all those devices and software options you mentioned (of course not PC/laptop) all came out after Netflix was first on Xbox 360, though. When Xbox 360 was the most readily available streaming hardware in town MS could easily put it behind a pay wall. I said earlier that I agree they need to remove the typical free apps from behind the pay wall in order to compete, now.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
I don't understand why people are upset about this unless its a excuse just to rant about live in general. It makes perfect sense for them to be under the same pay umbrella.
Then thanks for completely ignoring the reasons cited by many. Didn't really expect this kind of response from you.

What exactly do you feel you need to pay for that isn't already paid for if you decide to upload a clip of your gameplay from a game you bought on hardware you already paid for, over bandwidth you already pay your ISP for monthly, to a service like Youtube that already has its own pricing structure depending on what bandwidth/size/resolution of content you want to upload is?
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Nearly all those devices and software options you mentioned (of course not PC/laptop) all came out after Netflix was first on Xbox 360, though. When Xbox 360 was the most readily available streaming hardware in town MS could easily put it behind a pay wall. I said earlier that I agree they need to remove the typical free apps from behind the pay wall in order to compete, now.
PC and laptops were the largest market by dint of those other devices coming out later.

Putting NetFlix behind a paywall was asinine from day one.
 

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
Are you serious?
Netflix is a paid service. It has apps to stream it's content on pretty much every multimedia device in existence.

The only one charging for access to these apps is Microsoft.
It's completely ridiculous that you actually think Sony was "reactionary" by doing the same thing as everyone else.

Well for the other devices they weren't already adopted to the same degree as Xbox 360. That's why they could charge for it. Now that Roku, PS3, Wii are in most homes with free Netflix, things are different.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Nearly all those devices and software options you mentioned (of course not PC/laptop) all came out after Netflix was first on Xbox 360, though. When Xbox 360 was the most readily available streaming hardware in town MS could easily put it behind a pay wall. I said earlier that I agree they need to remove the typical free apps from behind the pay wall in order to compete, now.

They needed to remove these free apps from behind the paywall years ago.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Sorta figured. Obviously not ideal, but it seems like the XB1 will continue the trend of being a system not really worth it without being gold on top.
 
How many people had those things hooked up to their television sets, though?

sb10061547cu-001.jpg
 
Is the upload feature actually uploading to youtube? I thought the whole point of the feature was that it's part of your "profile", so you can click on someone's name, and browse all of their videos directly (which implied some type of "Skydrive for Xbox Live users" type of thing.). Or you can go to another Xbox and see the same list of recorded videos. It's basically an extension of the cloud storage for saved games.

There might be a separate "post/upload to youtube/facebook/etc." button though, I dunno.

It is definitely lame if browsing and playing back videos locally on a console is tied behind Xbox Live Gold though.
 

satam55

Banned
Are you being serious here? Because the first roku box was released in 2008 with netflix streaming. It didn't require a roku based subscription to use.

This set the precedent, Microsoft tried to change that precedent and failed because it is a stupid idea. Ultimately they lost the multimedia dominance you think they had because of that paywall.



And compare it to steam next and wonder why you are even paying at all.

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Everytime I try to discuss the rip-off for paying for XBL Gold, Xbox fans try to compare it to PSN to justify the paywall. As soon as you compare XBL Gold to Steam, they wanna change the subject.
 
How many people had those things hooked up to their television sets, though?
Different angle:

In 2009 there was a netflix application released for Windows Media Center, a program largely built to be utilized on HTPCs equipped with a Tv Tuner and plugged into a Tv. Windows Media Center only required Windows Vista Home Premium or Windows 7 RC at that point.

No subscription, completely free if you already had the OS.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Well for the other devices they weren't already adopted to the same degree as Xbox 360. That's why they could charge for it. Now that Roku, PS3, Wii are in most homes with free Netflix, things are different.

I can't believe you're honestly sticking with this ridiculous reasoning. Keep fighting the good fight though.

Putting a paywall in front of a third-party paid service is complety goddamn crazy and would not have worked in any way, shape or form if Microsoft didn't already have thousands of suckers paying monthly for the illusion of "a great online gaming infrastructure".
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The Xbox One is built from the ground up intended to be used with Xbox Live. Do people really plan on buying this thing without using LIVE? This is a non issue

So MS should just make it mandatory to sign up for live to use it then. Clearly that is what they want, and are happy to effectively cripple the unit for most things unless you have a paid subscription. They might as well go the final step and make it mandatory


I hope MS are forced via competition to reconsider some of this throughout the generation. Things like F2P, paid media services etc should be outside of any paywall.

I assume BBC iplayer will be available to silver accounts day one?
 

Iorv3th

Member
So nobody really see's the TV Guide feature being behind a paywall as absolutely stupid? They want this thing to appeal to casuals yet they charge 500$ for the box and then require a monthly fee to use the 'tv' features that are supposed to appeal to the casuals?
 
How many people had those things hooked up to their television sets, though?
That's not the point. The point is that a service which requires a subscription is behind another service which requires a separate subscription to use, whereas everywhere else it isn't. Whether its on your TV or not is irrelevant.
 

Pillville

Member
I suppose a good question for the "AMA" thread is whether the basic record feature is behind gold, or the uploading/backing up part? The "Game DVR" category does seem to imply that it references both parts of the feature though.

More and more I realize that a lot of these complex features on next-gen consoles tend to have a lot of wiggle room, and are hard to explain the full functionality in single catchphrases.

Already there.
 

BigDug13

Member
It's true, though. When Netflix for Xbox 360 initially came out, the most common Netflix streaming device hooked up in the living room was the Xbox 360. I can see why MS put it behind the pay wall at that point.

That's because MS had an exclusive agreement. To use Netflix on PS3 and Wii, you had to order a disc in the mail to enable it and it had to be in your system to use Netflix. It's no wonder with those requirements due to moneyhats why 360 was the most popular streamer in the beginning. Not to mention that the US was the only streaming market for Netflix back then and the 360 outsold PS3 in the US.
 

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
Whether its on your TV or not is irrelevant.

Well in my opinion I don't think that is irrelevant, and see why MS did it at the time. Times have changed and now MS has to move with the times of course. I'm mainly pointing out the initial reason why MS probably thought it made sense to put this stuff behind the pay wall to begin with.
 

Apdiddy

Member
I'm disappointed, but not really surprised. There's a lot that Microsoft could not put a paywall -- all they got to do is flip a switch.

The fact that Sony has to have paid multiplayer to minimize their costs is another reason why I won't get either console.
 

KAL2006

Banned
So MS should just make it mandatory to sign up for live to use it then. Clearly that is what they want, and are happy to effectively cripple the unit for most things unless you have a paid subscription. They might as well go the final step and make it mandatory


I hope MS are forced via competition to reconsider some of this throughout the generation. Things like F2P, paid media services etc should be outside of any paywall.

I assume BBC iplayer will be available to silver accounts day one?

I don't think MS wants the word out that Xbox One is featureless without Gold, it's bad for business, they'll just sneakily require to have Gold, what did you want them to have in hue letters Gold is required on the box, MS is a business.
 
Has anyone pointed out that this also basically confirms that at least most of the TV functionality is behind a paywall as well?

"OneGuide" is on that list. If you hover, here's the text it shows:

XBOX Live Gold members with XBOX One can experience a customized view of what's on TV, and see what's trending within the XBOX Live community.

I don't see how you'd be able to say something like "XBOX, watch CBS" without it having the guide information.

Just a thought.
 
And Microsoft continues their tradition of making their console as shitty a value as possible unless you pay their annual fee. They've taken their stick and, in response to Sony's carrot, opted to go with an even bigger stick this time.

Then again, looking at the number of people here who expect it, or are even somehow defending of it, I can see why MS is so brazen...millions will suck it up for a handful of exclusives and the privilege of services the other guy gets for free. Microsoft really have conditioned you that "this is just the way it has to be" even in the face of competition exposing that lie for what it is.

And for anyone talking about "well, cloud storage, so money" you can get a terabyte of cloud storage from Google for $1 per year, and that's without the required $560 purchase. Are you getting any other ongoing services or support? Take a look around, this is not 2008 anymore--believing anything remotely related to online merits additional feels is a line being pushed by Microsoft and pretty much no one else. It is ridiculous.

But if people aren't willing to demand more/better, then I suppose this IS what they deserve.
 

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
Fucking hell. I can get these services on my phone, through the mobile internet without an extra charge. What's Microsofts excuse? Apart from 'because they can'?

Now? They don't have one. Game DVR is a different beast, though. Also, you do have a charge on your mobile phone, unless you don't have a bill for using your phone at all...
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Nearly all those devices and software options you mentioned (of course not PC/laptop) all came out after Netflix was first on Xbox 360, though.
"Because they can" might be a better argument to try making in a forum for 1st year MBAs. By itself, it's rarely a good rationale.

lorv3th said:
So nobody really see's the TV Guide feature being behind a paywall as absolutely stupid?
On that count, not so much, because there's at least existing precedent there. Tivo and other DVR providers typically charge for their own EPGs.
 
Then thanks for completely ignoring the reasons cited by many. Didn't really expect this kind of response from you.

What exactly do you feel you need to pay for that isn't already paid for if you decide to upload a clip of your gameplay from a game you bought on hardware you already paid for, over bandwidth you already pay your ISP for monthly, to a service like Youtube that already has its own pricing structure depending on what bandwidth/size/resolution of content you want to upload is?

No your right. I made a lazy drive by in the thread. Good points were made.
 

nib95

Banned
Let's be honest here, Microsoft has built up a reputation for nickel and diming. We're surprised because it's a stupid thing to do, but not surprised it's Microsoft the one doing it.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Whenever the time comes when I pick up an XBone I won't be subscribing to XBL. Adding features which are free on everything else to your subscription model to create "added value" stinks. I don't play multiplayer games, so there is no way in hell I'd pay a subscription so I could upload videos, watch Netflix or Youtube. Where the value for money in that? I'll be able to do all that on my PS3/4/PC for no extra cost.

I don't mind paying for PS+ because it gives me something back in the form of games, so having multiplayer in there makes no difference to me, other than I'll actually still be able to play it if I did want to. If PS+ was purely about mulitplayer and hiding things behind a paywall I wouldn't pay for that either. Thankfully Sony actually offer you value to your subscription.


It majorly affects the value of Xbox one to me. I'd only partly buy one for the games (will have a PS4 too) and so the media features are a big sway for me. But with the TV Guide unbelievably being behind gold, along with Netflix etc access, those features will practically have to spoon feed me a perfect blend of entertainment to be worth it. I doubt they will be that good.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
The fact that Sony has to have paid multiplayer to minimize their costs is another reason why I won't get either console.

Nice to see someone actually stick to their word.

I've seen many who said they would NEVER pay for multiplayer (PS3 vs. 360 debates) change their tune with the PS4.
 

TheJCAbr

Banned
I bet that before the policy change they would charge to even play SP.

The worst thing about Xbox Live here at least, is that we don't get the same stuff as americans and we pay more for it. Basicaly we pay 500 € for half the package.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Let's be honest here, Microsoft has built up a reputation for nickel and diming. We're surprised because it's a stupid thing to do, but not surprised it's Microsoft the one doing it.

Defending it and acting like XBL is "great value" is still completely backwards though.
 
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