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[Subie_Greg]

I see a lot of talk about a $400 Xbox One without kinect.

Why $400? Shouldn't it be $350 or something. PS4 is $400 and has better specs.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

They sold out a while ago. It's more for the long run.

No, they didn't: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/html/pbPage.PDP/productID.282124000&pid=7UV-00005

I get emails from them telling me it's the "last chance" every week at this point.

Even if they did, there's been more than enough anecdotal evidence at this point that they not only have a significantly smaller launch allocation than Sony, but they also have struggled to sell through it all, whereas Sony did not.

 

[Pwn]

I see a lot of talk about a $400 Xbox One without kinect.

Why $400? Shouldn't it be $350 or something. PS4 is $400 and has better specs.

HDMI IN?
TV WATCHING?
NFL?

These cost hella moneyz for sure.

 

[BigJonsson]

If this had been the Xbox One they showed at E3 I probably would have pre-ordered it over a PS4........too late Microsoft

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Jesus! I am starting to seriously believe that Microsoft is pulling some 1984 level shit here.

Seriously! It reminds me of those moments from the book where they would say that the government is rationing supplies down to a quarter of what they were, only to raise them back up to half what they originally were, only to have everyone be euphoric that they are now getting half what they once got.

Seriously, this is like the "New Coke" of the 21st Century. You'd swear that MS planned this all out from the beginning.

"Oh yeah, we'll make the console seem like every gamer's worst nightmare and then retract every decision and people will love us!".

I am now almost expecting that they will go $399 before launch.

 

[Smurf Yetti]

Jesus! I am starting to seriously believe that Microsoft is pulling some 1984 level shit here.

Seriously! It reminds me of those moments from the book where they would say that the government is rationing supplies down to a quarter of what they were, only to raise them back up to half what they originally were, only to have everyone be euphoric that they are now getting half what they once got.

Seriously, this is like the "New Coke" of the 21st Century. You'd swear that MS planned this all out from the beginning.

"Oh yeah, we'll make the console seem like every gamer's worst nightmare and then retract every decision and people will love us!".

I am now almost expecting that they will go $399 before launch.

He took his scribbling pad on his knee and pushed back his chair so as to get as far away from the telescreen as possible. To keep your face expressionless was not difficult, and even your breathing could be controlled, with an effort: but you could not control the beating of your heart, and the telescreen was quite delicate enough to pick it up.

Xbox One(984)

 

[SolidChamp]

Question for anyone who cares to answer: Do any of these decisions make the XBone more appealing than the PS4?

Spoiler

No. No they don't.

 

[Satchel]

Counterpoint: You're naive if you think there are dozens of unannounced AAA Kinect games waiting to be announced based on zero precedence on the 360, with zero devs making public statements announcing investment in the device as an exclusive input, and zero evidence (leaked or announced) that MS' first party is using it for anything more than party and casual games.

Do you know why Kinect Sports and Fantasia were announced first? Because they are the highest profile Kinect games in development for the launch window. Even though neither game will be ready in November, MS needed something to explain why the thing was in the box other than the UI...



...which brings me to my second point. If MS was that serious, they would make Kinect mandatory for UI navigation. But since MS is a business, businesses have to hedge their bets, which is why they designed it from the outset to be navigable via the default gamepad. Kinect is to One as touch is to Windows 8 - the UI was obviously devised with it in mind, but you'd have to be braindead to release a PC OS that doesn't accept mouse/KB inputs, just like you'd have to be braindead to release a console UI that doesn't accept controller inputs.

It is an accessory, because 95% of the game library does not require it to operate properly. That has always been the definition of an accessory. Contrast this to the WiiMote, where 95% of the game library flat out did not work without it. Go the XboxOne home page:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/xbox-one-games?xr=shellnav

4 out of 44 announced games require Kinect.

Peripheral.



No backwards compatibility, and controller familiarity/platform history didn't do jack shit for people who jumped ship for DMC4, GTA4, RE5, and Madden. $100 is a $100. Casuals don't care about the name on the box, the PS3 at $599 proved that.

Situation C is happening RIGHT NOW, even with the DRM/used game/indie reversals.

I actually agree with everything you've said, but in all fairness, Windows 8 becomes infinitely better to use with the touch/kb/mouse combo.

I'd wager the One will be similar

 

[Subie_Greg]

HDMI IN?
TV WATCHING?
NFL?

These cost hella moneyz for sure.

True. Good point

 

[NotXbox one]

Good move Microsoft ,, keep the good news coming .

 

[Laughing Buddha]

I don't understand all of this hate for the Kinect, at least Microsoft is trying something new. Yeah, the first Kinect was flawed but a few games/apps really showed potential... Yourself Fitness, Raving Rabbids, Dance Central, Kinect Party, Fruit Ninja, Gunstringer, Fable the Journey, NBA Baller Beats. My kids (9 & 5) and myself have had a BLAST with these games, mind you this is with flawed technology.

I'm glad Microsoft is gambling on the Kinect 2.0, assuming it works as reported. I'm eager to see what developers do with the technology now that one is in every box. I really hope this is one area where Microsoft stands its ground.

For those of you that don't want to pay $100 more for the XBOX ONE because of the Kinect ask yourself this... Why do I resist innovation?

LB

 

[NIGHT-]

They aren't, one is much more powerful.

No... There is not a huge power gap between the two. One is more powerful, but "much" is the wrong word.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

full hardware redesign and price drop at GAmescom, called it!

 

[ElTorro]

For those of you that don't want to pay $100 more for the XBOX ONE because of the Kinect ask yourself this... Why do I resist innovation?

I changed my mind since all the 180s and preordered a XB1 at launch, I'll give Kinect a chance, but I don't see how it can contribute to games in in general. Gimmicks in gaming have been, so far, too often just forced and awkward things with exaggerated value just for the sake of doing something new.

 

[StewboaT_]

Drop the Kinect/price and you may have just won yourself another customer

 

[Bsigg12]

full hardware redesign and price drop at GAmescom, called it!

Microsoft exits the gaming business, sells all assets to Sony.

 

[Artorias]

No... There is not a huge power gap between the two. One is more powerful, but "much" is the wrong word.

You're too sensitive. It's much more powerful.

 

[NIGHT-]

You're too sensitive. It's much more powerful.

Carmack and Hideo have suggested other wise. I mean, you're free to have your own opinion, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The only platform that is gonna put the rest to shame is the PC, like always.

 

[Fornaximus]

For those of you that don't want to pay $100 more for the XBOX ONE because of the Kinect ask yourself this... Why do I resist innovation?

Are we still playing "just wait, Kinect will prove its gaming value"? Do we unlock an achievement for every year that passes at least?

 

[Neuromancer]

Xbox One(984)

Holy shit. It's like he knew.

 

[KiNeSiS]

HMMMMM There just may be room for XB1 in my far off future if true.

 

[-MD-]

So why is it bundled?

To push it on us.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Love it. Man they are nailing everything save that price.

and power.

 

[ChiliManiac]

I was gona get a the Xbox One anyway but this just sweetens the deal. Checking up on how the Steelers are doing while playing the Witcher 3 and not actually having to change the TV settings? Now, that's awesome. Can't wait and if I can still use my Xbox Box if my Kinect breaks even better.

 

[Kalamari]

If this had been the Xbox One they showed at E3 I probably would have pre-ordered it over a PS4........too late Microsoft

Exactly, I would not have even considered the PS4 a viable option if MS had introduced a console without all the additional garbage like kinect 2, drm, tv, and other stuff. I would have been really gung ho for the xbone.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

No... There is not a huge power gap between the two. One is more powerful, but "much" is the wrong word.

If someone made approximately 35-40% more money than you doing the same job, what would you qualify that as? Not a huge difference?

MS decision to "purposely not target the best hardware" is going to show this round of consoles. We now have two machines built on the same architecture. The PS4 is noticeably more powerful on paper, it shouldn't be hard for developers to take big advantage of this for real world performance differences.

Now that they have seen the light and made Kinect non mandatory it's time to announce a cheaper SKU. I want to buy their console, and now that Kinect is not required I will eventually buy one. How soon after launch remains to be seen.

 

[Finalizer]

For those of you that don't want to pay $100 more for the XBOX ONE because of the Kinect ask yourself this... Why do I resist innovation?

Here's the flipside: Why do you insist on change?

As others have said multiple times, Kinect is an answer to a question no one asked, a solution to a problem no one has. It's trying to force change for the sake of change, not actually resolving anything in the process. And MS themselves have yet to prove to me that adding Kinect to the mix is going to change up my gaming experience in any significant way, with the most notable additions relegated to just a handful of Kinect-exclusive titles that do little to interest me - and wont even be available at launch, to boot. On the other hand, whenever I read about others' personal experience with the original Kinect, it's rarely in a positive light, so I've plenty of reason to be wary of the latest iteration. Hence, the device is often referred to as a gimmick by gamers.

For something that looks like potential for real innovation in gaming, I look more at something like the Oculus Rift. That looks like something that could bring truly cool things to gaming. Until MS can prove that Kinect will do something like that for me, I'm firmly in the "toss it in the closet day-one" camp.

 

[Laughing Buddha]

Are we still playing "just wait, Kinect will prove its gaming value"? Do we unlock an achievement for every year that passes at least?

I've found value in the "flawed" Kinect, my kids and I love it. Granted, my kids love it more than I do. The flaws don't standout as much for them as they do for me. I'm excited for Kinect 2.0's potential and I'm glad Microsoft is taking a gamble on it.

Kid at Heart: Achievement Unlocked

LB

 

[Hoo-doo]

Awesome fucking news.

Now watch them drop Kinect like a hot rock with a 399$ kinect-less model after a few months of getting stomped in sales.

Might actually buy one, gamers win!

 

[Wynnebeck]

I must be the only one even more turned off by all this spinning around. The fact that they thought they could get away with everything they announced at E3, only to 180 almost everything only 2 months later, does not fill me with confidence that MS has my best interests in mind and are only doing so because the backlash has been so great, they had no choice but to 180. I still have my 360, but even a price drop below $400 wouldn't sway me at this point. MS fucked the chicken this time.

 

[Finalizer]

I've found value in the "flawed" Kinect, my kids and I love it. Granted, my kids love it more than I do. The flaws don't standout as much for them as they do for me. I'm excited for Kinect 2.0's potential and I'm glad Microsoft is taking a gamble on it.

To me, this just then begs the question why would you force Kinect onto every potential Xbone buyer? Okay, so Kinect makes sense in your family's situation because you've got kids who enjoy it. You wouldn't be any worse off if the Xbone was $350 with a $150 Kinect 2 add-on, while those who want nothing to do with the Kinect would get a cheaper box out of the gate.

That said, I can at least understand the perspective of guaranteeing Kinect support in every Xbone sale, so I'd personally let that slide, but I can fully understand why folks are pining for a Kinect-less SKU.

EDIT:

I must be the only one even more turned off by all this spinning around. The fact that they thought they could get away with everything they announced at E3, only to 180 almost everything only 2 months later, does not fill me with confidence that MS has my best interests in mind and are only doing so because the backlash has been so great, they had no choice but to 180. I still have my 360, but even a price drop below $400 wouldn't sway me at this point. MS fucked the chicken this time.

It's why I'd give it a few years before hoping back on the MS wagon and putting money toward the Xbone, to see if these policy changes are genuine, or just enough to snag customers customers and make the suits happy before flipping those switches back the other way. Takes time to build that confidence back up, but I do have to say that, at this stage of the game, they're at least making the right decisions in rectifying real issues right now. It's basically the difference between "fuck no" and "well, okay, maybe" for me now.

 

[SnakeEyes]

HDMI IN?
TV WATCHING?
NFL?

These cost hella moneyz for sure.

Microsoft would probably make it so you couldn't use the TV or NFL features without Kinect.

 

[Xellos]

Kinect-mandatory and the DRM on physical discs were my two major gripes with XB1 policy. Nice to see that they've reversed course. I'd like it even more if they removed Kinect from the box and lowered the price, but that isn't a deal breaker.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Question for anyone who cares to answer: Do any of these decisions make the XBone more appealing than the PS4?

Spoiler

No. No they don't.

More appealing than the PS4? No, definitely not. More appealing than it was three months ago? Hell yeah. I'll probably pick one up mid-gen now, depending on the exclusives.

 

[mr teaspoon]

Jesus! I am starting to seriously believe that Microsoft is pulling some 1984 level shit here.

Seriously! It reminds me of those moments from the book where they would say that the government is rationing supplies down to a quarter of what they were, only to raise them back up to half what they originally were, only to have everyone be euphoric that they are now getting half what they once got.

Seriously, this is like the "New Coke" of the 21st Century. You'd swear that MS planned this all out from the beginning.

"Oh yeah, we'll make the console seem like every gamer's worst nightmare and then retract every decision and people will love us!".

I am now almost expecting that they will go $399 before launch.

Not trying to be a dick, but I'm pretty sure you're missing the point of 1984. It's not that the government was low-balling rations for the sake of making the populace happy when they wound up higher, it's that they changed the past to reflect their errors.

Today's issue contained a statement of the actual output, from which it appeared that the forecasts were in every instance grossly wrong. Winston's job was to rectify the original figures by making them agree with the later ones. As for the third message, it referred to a very simple error which could be set right in a couple of minutes. As short a time ago as February, the Ministry of Plenty had issued a promise (a 'categorical pledge' were the official words) that there would be no reduction of the chocolate ration during 1984. Actually, as Winston was aware, the chocolate ration was to be reduced from thirty grammes to twenty at the end of the present week. All that was needed was to substitute for the original promise a warning that it would probably be necessary to reduce the ration at some time in April.

 

[Artorias]

Carmack and Hideo have suggested other wise. I mean, you're free to have your own opinion, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The only platform that is gonna put the rest to shame is the PC, like always.

3rd party devs aren't joining the console wars? Well that settles it!

The problem is we already know the specs. You can tell me their opinion means more than mine and thats fine, but we know how powerful they are, and we know the gap between them. I'm not sure what other confirmation you need.

 

[Metfanant]

Microsoft would probably make it so you couldn't use the TV or NFL features without Kinect.

Funny you should say that because Kinect IS the IR Blaster that controls your cable box lol

I must be the only one even more turned off by all this spinning around. The fact that they thought they could get away with everything they announced at E3, only to 180 almost everything only 2 months later, does not fill me with confidence that MS has my best interests in mind and are only doing so because the backlash has been so great, they had no choice but to 180. I still have my 360, but even a price drop below $400 wouldn't sway me at this point. MS fucked the chicken this time.

You're not the only one...memories are short though...I'm a little surprised that people are ok with being flat out lied to by MS about these things and how they were "impossible" to remove...but MS starts seeing the preorder numbers go to shit and all if a sudden the impossible becomes possible...

Exactly, I would not have even considered the PS4 a viable option if MS had introduced a console without all the additional garbage like kinect 2, drm, tv, and other stuff. I would have been really gung ho for the xbone.

Interesting that the more capable gaming machine would not be a viable option...

I was gona get a the Xbox One anyway but this just sweetens the deal. Checking up on how the Steelers are doing while playing the Witcher 3 and not actually having to change the TV settings? Now, that's awesome. Can't wait and if I can still use my Xbox Box if my Kinect breaks even better.

Best be careful...because Kinect is the IR Blaster...without it you can't control your cable box...

 

[roMonster]

I don't understand all of this hate for the Kinect, at least Microsoft is trying something new. Yeah, the first Kinect was flawed but a few games/apps really showed potential... Yourself Fitness, Raving Rabbids, Dance Central, Kinect Party, Fruit Ninja, Gunstringer, Fable the Journey, NBA Baller Beats. My kids (9 & 5) and myself have had a BLAST with these games, mind you this is with flawed technology.

I'm glad Microsoft is gambling on the Kinect 2.0, assuming it works as reported. I'm eager to see what developers do with the technology now that one is in every box. I really hope this is one area where Microsoft stands its ground.

For those of you that don't want to pay $100 more for the XBOX ONE because of the Kinect ask yourself this... Why do I resist innovation?

LB

I would ignore everything MS has done with the X1--cost, performance, DRM--if it came with a Rift instead of Kinect.

 

[HiredN00bs]

It amazes me how many are simply asking to offer a SKU without Kinect. I bought a Kinect for the 360 because I was genuinely curious about it. I tried it. I gave it a chance. I don't want it. Period.

 

[steven28]

So make a kinect-less version and sell it for $400.

Still, this is good news. I'm getting more interested in the Xbox 180 everyday.

Yep just get rid of the kinect,reduce the price and i might buy the console.

 

[travisbickle]

I don't think they will drop the camera, because the camera has both a physical and intangible value.

We all know the PS4 is A) cheaper and B) more powerful, but MSs response to both of those is the camera.

"This one's cheaper" "but this has a camera, that's why it costs more."

"This one's more powerful" "but this has a camera, power isn't everything think of the potential."


If they remove the camera and set it at the same price you have the situation

"What's the difference?" "That one's more powerful."

 

[dino1980]

Drop the kinect and put in a 7870-card or better and the xbox1 will be great.

 

[toddhunter]

To push it on us.

Not really.

The original kinect sold so poorly that you couldn't expect companies to support it and make creative uses of-

Well the gamepad being built into the Wii U certainly made sure every game ma-

Yeah I don't know but it doesn't really matter. It'll either sell with Kinect or they'll drop the price. Competition will sort it out.

What I do hope is the whole situation is a lesson for championing one console too much. Hoping that another player dies or drops out of the market, even if you don't buy their hardware is not a long term view.

 

[BruiserBear]

We still believe in Kinect. We aren’t interested in splitting the development base. The more demos I’ve seen, the more I’ve used it – the more impressed I am. The team feels strongly about Kinect, and I hope we’re able to prove that when you use it.

We also have a ton of privacy settings to allow people to turn off the camera, or microphones, or put it in a state just for “Xbox On” and IR blasting – there will be a lot of user control for that.

The thing we all understood, and hence this change, is that there are some scenarios where people just may not be comfortable. We wanted people to be 100% comfortable, so we allow the sensor to be unplugged. And clearly the “it dropped” scenario is possible.

The most obvious thing is watching a DVD/BD, or streaming a movie, or HDMI pass-through, your experience isn’t impacted (except you miss voice and IR blasting)

There is no “gotcha”, but obviously, if there is a game that REQUIRES Kinect (like Rivals), or something where Kinect IS the experience (like Skype), those won’t work.

That said, for people who have privacy concerns there are user control settings, which we believe are great.

I am so happy to get official word there isn't a catch to all this. I was worried some games may require Kinect when they really shouldn't, such as Forza 5 at launch.

For me, after the DRM this was my second biggest issue with the XB1. I just don't like the idea of being forced to plug in a large accessory like this at all times. I like having a tidy setup in my media room. The Kinect will only come out when I want to use it, and that's the way it should be.

 

[Metfanant]

Drop the kinect and put in a 7870-card or better and the xbox1 will be great.

So they are supposed to put a PCI-e card...on a mobo that doesn't utilize PCI-e and the gpu will have no way to communicate with the RAM or CPU which is part of an APU sitting on a different die...

Logic ftw

 

[Grimsen]

Kinect2 is going to end up like Kinect 1.

Multiplat games aren't going to use it or are gonna toss gimmicks in their Xbone ports. First party devs will try to implement it at first, but it won't be mandatory in core games.

The wiiu gamepad is a good analogy.

 

[RedAssedApe]

MS definitely making it interesting.

Curious that Sony has been pretty quiet and has pretty much just allowed MS to dominate the headlines with their announcements, 180s, etc. that paint them in a slightly more positive light.

People have short memories. Hopefully Gamescom doesn't disappoint. People can easily be swayed to do their own 180s.

 

[Grimsen]

Curious that Sony has been pretty quiet and has pretty much just allowed MS to dominate the headlines with their announcements, 180s, etc. that paint them in a slightly more positive light.

People have short memories. Hopefully Gamescom doesn't disappoint. People can easily be swayed to do their own 180s.

Sony's fine. People have already preordered.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

MS definitely making it interesting.

Curious that Sony has been pretty quiet and has pretty much just allowed MS to dominate the headlines with their announcements, 180s, etc. that paint them in a slightly more positive light.

People have short memories. Hopefully Gamescom doesn't disappoint. People can easily be swayed to do their own 180s.

Sony straight. They don't answer other MS, they answer to gamers with games. They don't need to dig themselves out or try to appeal to anyone too much. Let MS have the floor.

 

[MogCakes]

Great news! Glad MS is listening and isn't plugging their ears and spewing terrible PR like they were before the huge reversal. NOW it's a fight.