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Xbox One release EU delay explained - there are no manufacturing problems, insists MS

derfybzh

Member
Dude, please.....
I see how all Xbox Supporters here on gaf are saluting/quoting him etc.
But are you really wondering why a lot of people don't believe anything what he/MS says?
Have you listened to all the MS statements in the last couple of months, since the XBone unveil?
Have you heard that "Powah of the Cloud = 40x Xbox360" crap?
Have you seen the "Angry Joe/Major Nelson" incident?
Have you seen the "...Mattrick/buy a Xbox 360" video?
Have you seen that tweet of Aaron Greenberg regarding the XBone delay in europe, minutes prior the Xbone delay announcement?
Have you seen the "deal with it / why would I live there" tweet of the (now ex) MS exployee Adam Orth.
Have you seen the fake Kinect presentation during the XBone/E3 conference, with the clicker/switch inside the pocket/hands of the MS employee, showing us how "fast" Kinect reacts?
Have you seen their "204 GB/s ESRAM bandwith nonsense?
Remember all the DRM stuff a couple of months ago?
Remember the NSA stuff from their main department?
Should I go on with my list?


And do you remember this ?

PS3 Presentation by Sony

I bet you don't.

What is your point ? Corporations lie, yes they do, they all do ...

And for now in term of lying PS3 is still the King in my agenda.
 

Mugatu

Member
How come whenever I read a comment like that, I look at the profile and there is nothing there except a single PSN name?

There is no evidence in the contrary, it's all baseless speculation.

Why not read the message instead of hunting down something to attack the messenger with?
 

avaya

Member
How come whenever I read a comment like that, I look at the profile and there is nothing there except a single PSN name?

There is no evidence in the contrary, it's all baseless speculation.

I can't even remember the last time I played something on my PS3.

As a consumer, it is in your best interest to never to trust the word of any company.
 

tfur

Member
Well, at least they admitted they were behind schedule. It remains to be seen if the reasons are software, hardware or both.

I did want to see what he had to say about being on schedule, and if that schedule accommodates for yield problems. It is quite possible to be on schedule, and for the schedule to have the delays factored into the equation.

Also, I wonder what he would consider to be a worse scenario. Being behind schedule because of software vs hardware.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
And do you remember this ?

I bet you don't.

What is your point ? Corporations lie, yes they do, they all do ...

And for now in term of lying PS3 is still the King in my agenda.

Lol Nothing Sony did with PS3 comes close to what MS almost go away with on Xbone.
 

Bundy

Banned
And do you remember this ?

PS3 Presentation by Sony

I bet you don't.

What is your point ? Corporations lie, yes they do, they all do ...

And for now in term of lying PS3 is still the King in my agenda.
First: Am I talking about SONY/PS3 here?
Second: What PS3/SONY did... over 7 years ago, is worse than the XBOne fiasco in the last couple of months? Worse than what MS tried to to with their DRM stuff, blocking used games, etc.? Really? You must be joking!
Do I have to bring up all the EUvs.MS or MSvs.Apple stuff, which happened decades ago, just to prove my point? No!
Were talking about the latest stuff, their current product, the XboxOne, their current employees, etc.
 
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello

A lot of folks on GAF, for whatever reason and much like politics, refuse to look at things unbiased one way or the other. Just the way it is.

I've mentioned the HW spec increase combined with the size of the "delayed" markets making no sense if there was a yield problem from a business stand point (because one is a contradiction and two does ZERO, ZIP, NADDA to rectify a yield problem).

Meh, it is why I like the PC realm; the best arguments we get into is a benchmark or two over Radeon vs NVidia. The console war stuff is just tiring.
 

Hana-Bi

Member
Wait, Brazil is in the list of 2013 countries, but Portugal isn't? And they say its a language issue?

Hahaha

NO. There are localisation issues. Please read what Albert Penello posted in this very thread. The localisation includes country specific services as an example.
 

Guevara

Member
NO. There are localisation issues. Please read what Albert Penello posted in this very thread. The localisation includes country specific services as an example.

Here's the thing though: Microsoft has had built in voice recognition for a number of products for years. Windows XP/Vista/7/8, Windows Phone, Kinect 1, etc. If anyone should have solved these problems by now it's MS.
 

GavinGT

Banned
Here's the thing though: Microsoft has had built in voice recognition for a number of products for years. Windows XP/Vista/7/8, Windows Phone, Kinect 1, etc. If anyone should have solved these problems by now it's MS.

Localization is more than just voice recognition. it's right in Albert's post.
 

Hana-Bi

Member
Here's the thing though: Microsoft has had built in voice recognition for a number of products for years. Windows XP/Vista/7/8, Windows Phone, Kinect 1, etc. If anyone should have solved these problems by now it's MS.

Again. Albert isn't solely talking about language issues. They want to have a feature-rich ecosystem for every country.

Maybe they couldn't get the required deals for that in time.
 

Moonstone

Member
This. People want to cover their ears and act as if something fishy isn't going on. I'm sure Albert is a great guy, but coming in here and trying to feed us information especially after the mess with the Astroturfers isn't doing him any favors. Now we have these reports too? Yeah, I'm taking everything he says with a grain of salt until launch or more clarifications from other sources.

If the reports are true, 6.2 mio consoles instead of 7m doesn't sound like production problems. The 360 sold about 8 mio in the first year (which they pushed up to 10 with channel stuffing). 6m launch consoles sounds huge. With 1m per month (12m in the first year) they'd need to produce 6 month in advance. Maybe a little bit less, but you usually can't scale production that easily.
 

GavinGT

Banned
If the reports are true, 6.2 mio consoles instead of 7m doesn't sound like production problems. The 360 sold about 8 mio in the first year (which they pushed up to 10 with channel stuffing). 6m launch consoles sounds huge. With 1m per month (12m in the first year) they'd need to produce 6 month in advance. Maybe a little bit less, but you usually can't scale production that easily.

Who ever even expected them to ship 6-7 million units in 2013? That's just crazy. It makes the whole thing sound less plausible.
 
Who ever even expected them to ship 6-7 million units in 2013? That's just crazy. It makes the whole thing sound less plausible.

Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

The continuous propagation of the same rumor does not make it a new rumor. The China news thing is wrong, of course, like the other rumors are wrong. They have no source. It’s just the same rumor making the rounds.

My source = me. That’s all I can rely on, my knowledge of what’s going on internally.

Now, you could call me a BIASED source, but short of me showing documents or email strings or other evidence that of course I could never disclose, it’s basically my word against the rumors. And even if I did show something, it would be dismissed.

At any rate, I will continue to post as long as I’m welcome.
 

Copenap

Member
Again. Albert isn't solely talking about language issues. They want to have a feature-rich ecosystem for every country.

Maybe they couldn't get the required deals for that in time.
If that is indeed the only reason I do have to wonder however why it took them so long to realize they are not gonna make it in all these markets. Somebody made a huge blunder, that's for sure.
 

stktt

Banned
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

The continuous propagation of the same rumor does not make it a new rumor. The China news thing is wrong, of course, like the other rumors are wrong. They have no source. It’s just the same rumor making the rounds.

My source = me. That’s all I can rely on, my knowledge of what’s going on internally.

Now, you could call me a BIASED source, but short of me showing documents or email strings or other evidence that of course I could never disclose, it’s basically my word against the rumors. And even if I did show something, it would be dismissed.

At any rate, I will continue to post as long as I’m welcome.

Of course you're welcome. It's just difficult to take what amounts to a request for trust without any hard proof (like you said, not that we would be privy to that sort of material) at face value, regardless of how plausible it sounds.
 
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

The continuous propagation of the same rumor does not make it a new rumor. The China news thing is wrong, of course, like the other rumors are wrong. They have no source. It’s just the same rumor making the rounds.

My source = me. That’s all I can rely on, my knowledge of what’s going on internally.

Now, you could call me a BIASED source, but short of me showing documents or email strings or other evidence that of course I could never disclose, it’s basically my word against the rumors. And even if I did show something, it would be dismissed.

At any rate, I will continue to post as long as I’m welcome.

Why wouldn't you be welcome to post here.

You should understand why noone will believe a single word out of MS's mouth anymore though after the recent events, the boy who cried wolf and all that.
Noone here has any reason to believe a single word of what you say.
 
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

The continuous propagation of the same rumor does not make it a new rumor. The China news thing is wrong, of course, like the other rumors are wrong. They have no source. It’s just the same rumor making the rounds.

My source = me. That’s all I can rely on, my knowledge of what’s going on internally.

Now, you could call me a BIASED source, but short of me showing documents or email strings or other evidence that of course I could never disclose, it’s basically my word against the rumors. And even if I did show something, it would be dismissed.

At any rate, I will continue to post as long as I’m welcome.

You're always welcome.

You seem like a straight shooter.

Honestly? I believe you. I believe that the information you give is the information you're given.

I'm not sure I believe is those above you.

People like you and Larry have been thrown under the bus when you guys did PR control and then they only went on to change the policies that you guys probably didn't know about. You guys got the backlash. Not them. It's your job though.

EDIT: Apparently I have dyslexia. Some of that was completely out of place...
 
If the reports are true, 6.2 mio consoles instead of 7m doesn't sound like production problems. The 360 sold about 8 mio in the first year (which they pushed up to 10 with channel stuffing). 6m launch consoles sounds huge. With 1m per month (12m in the first year) they'd need to produce 6 month in advance. Maybe a little bit less, but you usually can't scale production that easily.

Article's bullshit. If they knew they were guaranteed 6 million units they would have launched in all 21 countries.
 

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

The continuous propagation of the same rumor does not make it a new rumor. The China news thing is wrong, of course, like the other rumors are wrong. They have no source. It’s just the same rumor making the rounds.

My source = me. That’s all I can rely on, my knowledge of what’s going on internally.

Now, you could call me a BIASED source, but short of me showing documents or email strings or other evidence that of course I could never disclose, it’s basically my word against the rumors. And even if I did show something, it would be dismissed.

At any rate, I will continue to post as long as I’m welcome.

Can you comment on the rumour that the DRM (Online check-in etc) MS had planned to include at launch will be re-introduced at a later date and will even affect consoles bought just now without the DRM in the form of a forced update.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
Why wouldn't you be welcome to post here.

You should understand why noone will believe a single word out of MS's mouth anymore though after the recent events, the boy who cried wolf and all that.
Noone here has any reason to believe a single word of what you say.

This. You're a bang up guy Al, but you are a "mouthpiece" for MS. Hopefully the numbers vindicate you.
 

Amir0x

Banned
You know what, maybe it's a mixture of all the problems combined.

Albert Penello said:
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest.

I'm a little unsure what this means. What will the launch prove about this story one way or the other? Technically, if there WERE yield problems you already canceled the launches of those other countries for a considerable length of time, so there'd obviously be more units for the 13 countries that are still there. It would 'appear' in those remaining countries that there was plenty of units.

Also obviously, you guys are going to allocate a lot more for the UK and the US - your two strongest countries - so those countries will likely have launches that look quite productive whether there were genuine yield issues or not. Your first few month sales in the rest of Europe are going to be largely miserable, and I'm pretty sure you know that whether you can admit it out loud or not (edit: just read your post where you DID admit that out loud - gotta say, bravo for that bit of un-PR truthfulness. Seriously cool.)

And all this remains true even if Microsoft's official story is true. So can you tell me what to look for around launch that will suggest the truth one way or another? What detail should I hone in on?
 

ekim

Member
Why wouldn't you be welcome to post here.

You should understand why noone will believe a single word out of MS's mouth anymore though after the recent events, the boy who cried wolf and all that.
Noone here has any reason to believe a single word of what you say.

You should backup such statements. Everything Albert posted here wasn't questionable - it was always straight answers and I have no doubt it's the truth.
 

Hana-Bi

Member
Can you comment on the rumour that the DRM (Online check-in etc) MS had planned to include at launch will be re-introduced at a later date and will even affect consoles bought just now without the DRM in the form of a forced update.

Is there a rumour about that?
 

uNsIs

Neo Member
I think MS want to use server-side voice recognition like siri with their always online console, but after their 180 on DRM they must implement offline voice recognition and it too late to support 21 countries at launche.
 

tfur

Member
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

Can you define: "the truth of launch" and "it could be proven beyond my own word"

What does this mean? What will the launch prove and most importantly how?
What will be the benchmark? Out selling (shipping) your nearest competitor? Really shipping in the original countries now part of the delay?
 

Thorgal

Member
Like I said. The truth of launch will put this to rest. There would be no benefit to me entering this thread unless I was confident it could be proven beyond my own word.

The continuous propagation of the same rumor does not make it a new rumor. The China news thing is wrong, of course, like the other rumors are wrong. They have no source. It’s just the same rumor making the rounds.

My source = me. That’s all I can rely on, my knowledge of what’s going on internally.

Now, you could call me a BIASED source, but short of me showing documents or email strings or other evidence that of course I could never disclose, it’s basically my word against the rumors. And even if I did show something, it would be dismissed.

At any rate, I will continue to post as long as I’m welcome.

The problem here is that you are unable to provide proof that what you say is true.
Likewise that chinese article also has no proof wether it is real or not.

So it ends up your word vs chinese article and since neither of you can
Show proof on GAF that shows the other side iq lying your word alone here is meaningless just as much as that article.
 

derFeef

Member
The problem here is that you are unable to provide proof that what you say is true.
Likewise that chinese article also has no proof wether it is real or not.

So it ends up your word vs chinese article and since neither of you can
Show proof on GAF that shows the other side iq lying your word alone here is meaningless just as much as that article.

Yet GAF eats up that article as truth.
 

EvB

Member
I think MS want to use server-side voice recognition like siri with their always online console, but after their 180 on DRM they must implement offline voice recognition and it too late to support 21 countries at launche.

360 uses server side voice recognition for booting apps and searching for content, I don't see why the Xbox One would be different.
 
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