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[aeolist]

Part of the problem is the overtly aggressive manner that both guys sides handled this, and it as resulted in a polarization.

this is a false equivalency, you're going to have to find some people aggressively trying to censor or attack PA for the comic because i don't remember this at all

and in either case PA is in a position of power here so their words carry more weight, it's not the same thing if they attack a group and some random internet posters attack them

 

[LuchaShaq]

Mike's an idiot. Rape jokes, no matter what the context, aren't funny, and is a sign of an extremely lazy writer. (In my opinion, of course.)

Considering I know more than one rape victim that has made an outstanding rape joke you can't be more off base.

The worse the act the higher potential for comedy.

Also the high potential to fuck up and come off like a total scumbag.


The problem is that the comic wasn't funny, and the writers act like entitled children.

 

[blitzcloud]

Right, yeah. And when people criticized that comic, PA responded with this comic, which mocked those critics: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/

As an artist myself with the craziest idea, i think this should've been the only answer to the debacle. Sometimes PA should act more like a big company and simply do not make any public statements outside "thank you for your support".

The problem is that the comic wasn't funny, and the writers act like entitled children.

That's an opinion, right?

 

[Smash]

i think the saddest part is that mike has been pretty open about how he was bullied as a child, and then when he gained massive amounts of money and influence as an adult he decided that compassion was for suckers and proceeded to become a bully himself

He doesn't have compassion because he considers annoying and stupid attempts at censorship from easily offended people? There a many tragedies in the world, murder, drugs, starvation, if PA had to censor itself not to offend victims of all of them they wouldn't be able to write anything most of the time.

Yet, there is a subject that the PC vocal minority considers the holy grail of what they think is offensive while they usually hypocritically ignore everything else: Rape, even in completely non-offensive instances like the PA comic. The mere mention of the word without a disclaimer of how horrible it is, is a grave sin that must be punished. You know what, I'm getting sick of these people so I completely understand Mike. And btw this forum has gone off the deep end following them with the politically correct whining, so I'm just waiting for the backlash again.

 

[mclem]

The objection from feminist perspective, from what I have read, was actually the use of rape as a trivial part of the joke. This goes into the whole "rape-culture" theory, where any flippant use of rape in any context trivializes it and therefore normalizes and perpetuates it by reinforcing the idea that rape is "no big deal".

I don't really agree with this perspective, as a whole, but that is what the issue is.

But that's sort of the point - it's *not* trivial. It's *meant* to be a hideous atrocity (to a ridiculous extent), to cast the player character's blasé attitude to something horrifying into sharp relief.

 

[Mr Jared]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

Ding Ding Ding.

This isn't about the original joke, and hasn't been since the dawn of the controversy. This is about a person who has a demonstrated history of antagonizing those who were offended, potentially because it triggered an awful moment in their lives. All he ever had to do was apologize, make it clear that it wasn't his intent cause any distress and seriously, just move on. That's it. Instead, he was a giant prick about it, drafted merchandise to alienate those people and then continues to bring it up as if he was persecuted for it.

All "Gabe" has to do is just not be a dick and be a human being with actual feelings. That is what is so frustrating about it. He's being a bully in a culture that is already full up as is.

 

[Giolon]

Right, yeah. And when people criticized that comic, PA responded with this comic, which mocked those critics: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/

Then they started selling dickwolves merch as a response.

Here's a good timeline of events: http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline

They're free to mock people who tried to paint them as condoning rape in their first comic, because frankly that assertion is ridiculous and misses the entire point of the strip.

Selling dickwolves merchandise you could see as catering to the demands of fans of the comic or even just the absurdity of the idea of a "dickwolf" in the first place, or you could see it as a direct attack on the people who complained. Of course the internet is going to latch onto the one that creates victims. Cuz fuck those people who liked the shirt and/or the joke. They're all rapist assholes right?

 

[Draxal]

this is a false equivalency, you're going to have to find some people aggressively trying to censor or attack PA for the comic because i don't remember this at all

and in either case PA is in a position of power here so their words carry more weight, it's not the same thing if they attack a group and some random internet posters attack them

Oh please, calling him a rape apologist is incredibly insulting if you think rape is a serious crime and there was plenty of that going around, including this article.

 

[Bizazedo]

I wish more people would see that it's OK to think the original joke isn't particularly offensive (I think it's fine) while simultaneously acknowledging that it might make some people uncomfortable and that we should try to show some empathy for those people instead of making comics and t-shirts to mock them.

Many people feel disenfranchised and ostracized because of this incident and I think we could all benefit from trying to see the story from that perspective instead of thinking things like "this doesn't offend me, so what's the big deal?"

The "fear" of doing that is that people don't want to give any excuse to then censor those types of jokes. Like, why even voice your displeasure and get blog / article hits? It's either for advertisement or an end goal (usually).

Add to that the idea that maybe they shouldn't have been offended, period, and you have a hilarious explosion of outrage and book-length blog posts.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, by the way. To me it'd be easy to say "Hey, sorry you were offended" and leave it like that. Mike aggravating the situation actually makes it harder to say "I like Penny Arcade", and that honestly and truly sucks.

He really strikes me as that guy who goes "This far, NO FARTHER!". That, combined with earlier being bullied and the perceived "What's the protesters real endgoal?" probably provoked the response he gave. He wants to not backdown and make sure everyone knows he didn't back down.

Which makes our lives suck.

 

[Orayn]

I'm with Schrier on this one. The comic was a bit tasteless, but they should have just acknowledged that and moved on instead of purposefully escalating things.

Mike's entirely right in this situation. This was perhaps the dumbest controversy I can think of in recent times.

The worst part about it are the people who argue "it's not funny". Humor is subjective. No one gives a shit what you find funny or not. Your own personal sense of humor does not give you the license to go on a crusade against what other people find funny.

Why not? People crusade in favor of their own preferences and against others' all the time.

 

[blitzcloud]

But that's sort of the point - it's *not* trivial. It's *meant* to be a hideous atrocity (to a ridiculous extent), to cast the player character's blasé attitude to something horrifying into sharp relief.

This is exactly it. With the addition of the mythical creature with such a silly name that you can't do anything but laugh while trying to imagine it.

Why not? People crusade in favor of their own preferences and against others' all the time.

Because "no" is intolerant and "yes" is tolerant. By denying the right to enjoy the humor by pointing out it's wrong to like it you're saying NO to that kind of humor, with the inherent censorship of free will of what you can and cannot find funny.

 

[brandnew]

They're free to mock people who tried to paint them as condoning rape in their first comic, because frankly that assertion is ridiculous and misses the entire point of the strip.

Selling dickwolves merchandise you could see as catering to the demands of fans of the comic or you could see it as a direct attack on the people who complained. Of course the internet is going to latch onto the one that creates victims. Cuz fuck those people who liked the shirt and/or the joke. They're all rapist assholes right?

Well, I do agree that the shirts could have been "catering to the demands of fans," but it's pretty clear that the reason the shirts ever existed was in direct response to the outcry and not because fans liked dickwolves. Honestly, I really don't think the original comic was an issue, but this effort to mock and insult people who criticized it is so unnecessary.

 

[Bizazedo]

Why not?

It allows you to go on the crusade, you just have no grounds to be upset when there's a counter-crusade.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I don't get how people get the wrong end of the stick here time and time again. The dickwolves stuff and merch wasn't directly having a go at rape survivors with taglines like "ha ha you idiot, you got raped", it seems squarely aimed at the absolutely absurd internet outrage machine who finds the existence of a wolf whose every limb is an erect phallus something that must be holy war'd against. Thats the biting back and those people quite rightfully need to be lampooned so society doesnt just become an endless torrent of "i'm offended so censor".

But then we know your policy on whiteknighting after the whole Dragon's Crown debacle which was another fine example of "censor all the things!"

This is a bad post. You may not agree with jschreier, and ultimately may not be able to see eye to eye with him on this. However, I feel that the post was trying to take on a reasonable tone. Your response calling him way off the mark and resorting to an ad hominem is completely unnecessary.

 

[Metal Khaos]

I never found Dickwolves offensive or touchy, I regret not getting a t-shirt when they were still available.

Me too man. Me too.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Penny Arcade doubling down on the joke and lampooning the offended is really just a more visually absurd and uncouth version of the always lovely Mr Fry's viewpoint:

The whole "enabling rape culture" furore that exploded afterwards was just that dark part of the internet that is in an eternal cyclone of furious outrage. By taking the merch down, they gave that cyclone more perceived power that it can continue to wage war on all "offenses", and that is in no doubt what Gabe regrets.

This is a bad post. You may not agree with jschreier, and ultimately may not be able to see eye to eye with him on this. However, I feel that the post was trying to take on a reasonable tone. Your response calling him way off the mark and resorting to an ad hominem is completely unnecessary.

I apologise, but the madness that ensued with the whole Dragon's Crown thing had so many shades of dickwolves to it that I should have perhaps phrased it a little better. It does all double back to the above image quote though and the dangerous implications of how one group of those "offended" should be able to huff and puff and blow away all the bad. Then if you double down, you're made into a monster. Happens every single time.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

They're free to mock people who tried to paint them as condoning rape in their first comic, because frankly that assertion is ridiculous and misses the entire point of the strip.

Selling dickwolves merchandise you could see as catering to the demands of fans of the comic or even just the absurdity of the idea of a "dickwolf" in the first place, or you could see it as a direct attack on the people who complained. Of course the internet is going to latch onto the one that creates victims. Cuz fuck those people who liked the shirt and/or the joke. They're all rapist assholes right?

And this too. You can ultimately disagree with the controversy, but there's no need to be so snidely dismissive when it's clear that you're not trying to understand the critique at all.

 

[badgenome]

Right, yeah. And when people criticized that comic, PA responded with this comic, which mocked those critics: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/

And this was objectionable, because...?

They were accused of promoting rape culture with a joke. A joke that didn't even use rape as its punchline. If they had done this exact same comic only it was aimed at Jack Thompson and the idea that violent video games promote real life violence, I doubt it would have been seen as being somehow over the line.

 

[Gannd]

Right, yeah. And when people criticized that comic, PA responded with this comic, which mocked those critics: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/

Then they started selling dickwolves merch as a response.

Here's a good timeline of events: http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline

I think pointing out the absurdity of the complaints is well warranted.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

this is a false equivalency, you're going to have to find some people aggressively trying to censor or attack PA for the comic because i don't remember this at all

and in either case PA is in a position of power here so their words carry more weight, it's not the same thing if they attack a group and some random internet posters attack them

The whole Mike overreaction came because some people were censoring their jobs and that they were contributing to the rape culture. I think that's quite an statement to do for a strip comic laughing at RPG quests.

I'm not gonna defend PA antics or how the whole merchandise was stupid beyond levels, but the whole criticism to the comic was exaggerated. Of course PA dosn't react too good to any criticism.

 

[Orayn]

It allows you to go on the crusade, you just have no grounds to be upset when there's a counter-crusade.

But it's crusades all the way down! Everyone should have the right to feel and react* however they want, to whatever they want.

*: With arguments and discourse, not threats or aggression.

 

[mentallyinept]

But that's sort of the point - it's *not* trivial. It's *meant* to be a hideous atrocity (to a ridiculous extent), to cast the player character's blasé attitude to something horrifying into sharp relief.

I understand, and I agree.

I'm just stating an, admittedly paraphrased, synopsis of feminist arguments that I have read on the subject. I could have misinterpreted what I have read, but trivialization is a very prominent argument used by feminists.

Other such issues involving trivialization include Women in Refrigerators and The Bechdel Test

 

[dead souls]

Considering I know more than one rape victim that has made an outstanding rape joke you can't be more off base.

The worse the act the higher potential for comedy.

Also the high potential to fuck up and come off like a total scumbag.


The problem is that the comic wasn't funny, and the writers act like entitled children.

Agreed. If you're going to be joking about a potentially offensive subject you need to be damn sure your joke is funny. Theirs wasn't and the manchild doubling down is just pathetic.

 

[Orayn]

Because "no" is intolerant and "yes" is tolerant. By denying the right to enjoy the humor by pointing out it's wrong to like it you're saying NO to that kind of humor, with the inherent censorship of free will of what you can and cannot find funny.

Saying "I don't find that funny and here's why." is not fucking censorship or an attempt to remove anyone's free will.

 

[Codeblue]

the writers act like entitled children.

Perhaps because they were entitled to do what they did.

 

[iammeiam]

I think pointing out the absurdity of the complaints is well warranted.

Except that nobody was complaining about the dickwolves comic causing people to spontaneously morph into rapists. It's essentially them scoring easy points off a strawman, and is the start of the BS snowball that would eventually explode into the controversy that won't die. Instead of reading and seriously responding to the complaints, or just ignoring them, they chose the path of mocking critics by highlighting the absurdity of an argument that wasn't even being made.

 

[Adam Blue]

Right, yeah. And when people criticized that comic, PA responded with this comic, which mocked those critics: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/

Then they started selling dickwolves merch as a response.

Here's a good timeline of events: http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline

In that last link, the first response sets a tone that paint J&M in a light as if they don't care about other's well-being and their history that might/might not involve rape. The problem with that, is that many latched on and created a shit storm.

The first thing anyone is going to do when they are accused of such (and the accusations are some that will make one quick to defend themselves), is to defend off the highest mountain. The problem with the the internet, and human thought in general (it's why we're at this point) is bandwagoning. People were willing to jump on the hate train rather quickly. But Mike apologized! That's not enough.

Remember George Kamitani? Of course you do. He was in a similar situation. His art was degraded beyond the point of being art, and laden with accusations that would make one want to defend themselves. These were hurtful accusations to any one's conscience, and his first reaction was to defend himself. Weren't there even apologies, from both sides?

And this is where we come to. It's best if we can learn as a society to personally speak to someone about an issue they have rather than blast the 'nets with accusations. You think Sony presenters at the unveiling wanted to be called sexists? Or the party planners of that GDC thing?

We need to take care in calling people out, because the accusations can do more harm that the intent ever intended.

 

[Giolon]

And this too. You can ultimately disagree with the controversy, but there's no need to be so snidely dismissive when it's clear that you're not trying to understand the critique at all.

I addressed Jason's post directly. If moderation thinks that last sentence is out of line, I will take that into account. If someone wants to find the comic, or the response offensive, fine, but don't let them try to paint anyone who disagrees with them in a negative light either.

People on this board have said if you think the joke is funny, then you're a supporter of rape culture and an enabler of rape and otherwise a horrible person. You don't think that it's appropriate to be dismissive that kind of attitude?

 

[blitzcloud]

Agreed. If you're going to be joking about a potentially offensive subject you need to be damn sure your joke is funny. Theirs wasn't and the manchild doubling down is just pathetic.

and here we go again.

comic was funny-was not-it was-it was not.

Moot point. Go prosecute real rape based jokes like the one with the bull in family guy. It even depicts Peter trying to escape by hitting the bull, but the bull ultimately rapes him offscreen.

 

[brandnew]

The whole "enabling rape culture" furore that exploded afterwards was just that dark part of the internet that is in an eternal cyclone of furious outrage. By taking the merch down, they gave that cyclone more perceived power that it can continue to wage war on all "offenses", and that is in no doubt what Gabe regrets.

The thing with that Fry quote is that he was referencing people who just say "I'm offended" and don't really back it up. The famous Jamie Kennedy heckler moment is a good example of this.

And while I definitely think there was and still is a whole bunch of this shallow criticism coming Mike's way, there are also a bunch of sincere, well thought out responses that were much more than simply saying "that's offensive, I'm offended." There's that tumblr link that floating all around the thread that links to a lot of articles that go in depth of why Mike's response has been insensitive and the real effects it can have on people. I think if Mike wrote or spoke in a way that didn't demean the other side and sincerely (and respectfully) explained his viewpoint, he would get a lot more credit.

 

[slayn]

Except that nobody was complaining about the dickwolves comic causing people to spontaneously morph into rapists. It's essentially them scoring easy points off a strawman, and is the start of the BS snowball that would eventually explode into the controversy that won't die. Instead of reading and seriously responding to the complaints, or just ignoring them, they chose the path of mocking critics by highlighting the absurdity of an argument that wasn't even being made.

They're comics. This is what comics do, and this is what fans of PA come to them for. To mock things.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I apologise, but the madness that ensued with the whole Dragon's Crown thing had so many shades of dickwolves to it that I should have perhaps phrased it a little better. It does all double back to the above image quote though and the dangerous implications of how one group of those "offended" should be able to huff and puff and blow away all the bad. Then if you double down, you're made into a monster. Happens every single time.

First of all, I removed the obnoxious Fry image. Secondly, it should be noted perhaps that doubling down isn't a good strategy. Obviously, someone taking offense to something you've said does not automatically mean that you are in the wrong. However, I don't understand why anyone would think that perhaps trying to exercise empathy first before just sticking to one's guns isn't the better strategy. Ultimately -- after a good night's sleep and some inner contemplation over your favorite cocktail (or whatever you drink to relax) -- you might conclude that you are still right on this one. But I would argue that it's still a better move to at least pretend that you understand where people are coming from and calmly explain the disconnect as opposed to just arrogantly doubling down.

 

[Giolon]

Saying "I don't find that funny and here's why." is not fucking censorship or an attempt to remove anyone's free will.

But what do you call "I don't find that funny and here's why, and if you disagree with me you're a monster and I'm going to try to ruin your business because of it"?

 

[dead souls]

We need to take care in calling people out, because the accusations can do more harm that the intent ever intended.

Your entire post is off base, but this concluding sentence is just ridiculous. People shouldn't get called out because they didn't intend to offend? That's exactly when they should get called out, so they can learn and grow.

Mike at Penny Arcade chose not to and that's why many people no longer consume their work.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

First of all, I removed the obnoxious Fry image. Secondly, it should be noted perhaps that doubling down isn't a good strategy. Obviously, someone taking offense to something you've said does not automatically mean that you are in the wrong. However, I don't understand why anyone would think that perhaps trying to exercise empathy first before just sticking to one's guns isn't the better strategy. Ultimately -- after a good night's sleep and some inner contemplation over your favorite cocktail (or whatever you drink to relax) -- you might conclude that you are still right on this one. But I would argue that it's still a better move to at least pretend that you understand where people are coming from and calmly explain the disconnect as opposed to just arrogantly doubling down.

What surprised me most about some of the reactions to our Dickwolf joke was not that people were offended. But that this was the comic that offended them. In each case the emails I got started with something like “I’ve been a long time fan” or “Been reading the comic for years…” and then they go into how this particular comic really bothered them.

I just don’t understand that. Did the comics about bestiality, suicide, murder, pedophilia, and torture not bother them? Or how about the fruit fucker? I mean, we have a character who is a literal rapist. What comic strip have they been reading all these years?

For the most part I think that people are perfectly happy to laugh at offensive jokes until the joke offends them. Then it’s not funny anymore. There is no way we can know what each and every person who reads the comic has decided to find offensive.

In the end I just disagree with these people about what’s funny and that’s perfectly okay.

-Gabe out

Who are you talking about? Cause it's not PA.

 

[mentallyinept]

Except that nobody was complaining about the dickwolves comic causing people to spontaneously morph into rapists. It's essentially them scoring easy points off a strawman, and is the start of the BS snowball that would eventually explode into the controversy that won't die. Instead of reading and seriously responding to the complaints, or just ignoring them, they chose the path of mocking critics by highlighting the absurdity of an argument that wasn't even being made.

Not spontaneously, but people said they were part of the the rape culture, which by definition involves trivializing, normalizing, and perpetuating a culture where rape is acceptable. Which would mean they are now, by proxy, causing more rape to happen.

 

[faridmon]

For people who says that rape joke isn't funny, in any context whatsoever, have you consrede the fact that Hollywood uses that joke almost all the time in its comedy movies?

Why, I just came from the Cinema having watched This is the End and there was an explicit Rape

Spoiler

Scene

that was clearly shown as a joke. What do you think of that?

I bet, some of you are quite hypocritical.

 

[Orayn]

But what do you call "I don't find that funny and here's why, and if you disagree with me you're a monster and I'm going to try to ruin your business because of it"?

Calling someone a monster for disagreeing with you is being judgmental, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it, and voting with your wallet is a perfectly valid way expressing your opinion. Do you think boycotts should be illegal?

 

[Kinyou]

I actually didn't know that the original joke was that harmless. I imagine if PA just had ignored the critic the whole thing would have blown over pretty fast.

 

[blitzcloud]

Calling someone a monster for disagreeing with you is being judgmental, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it, and voting with your wallet is a perfectly valid way expressing your opinion. Do you think boycotts should be illegal?

If structured by a lobby and passed as a community response, yes.

I actually didn't know that the original joke was that harmless. I imagine if PA just had ignored the critic the whole thing would have blown over pretty fast.

That's the thing about PA. They are relatively harmless until they voice out their discomfort with some of the criticism. With the response strip it was more than enough to show how misguided the rape culture enforcement they were called out for was pointless.

 

[Lime]

Concurrently, this is also a side-effect of what went on back then and what is going on right now in the way people, even on Neogaf in this thread, are reacting to this issue. Just so you know, constantly failing to understand the problem people have with the reaction to the criticism also entail further exclusion of other people from gaming culture:

As video games have attracted more critical attention and theoretical discourse and games play a more visible part in our media landscape, the modern video game community impacts the wider world of online culture and warrants more detailed study. Using the case of the Dickwolves incident from Penny Arcade.com, the authors address issues of hypermasculinity and sexism within the gaming community and how this lens brings to light issues with a hostile response to the expression of a female identity or femininity. The authors argue that this case highlights how the hypermasculine discourse encourages the overt privileging of masculinity over femininity and discourages women from engaging in gendered discourse within the community

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08838151.2012.705199

 

[FutureZombie]

It's very simple to know which side is right: The side that tells people what they are and are not allowed to say is always wrong, 100% of the time.

 

[Pie and Beans]

First of all, I removed the obnoxious Fry image. Secondly, it should be noted perhaps that doubling down isn't a good strategy. Obviously, someone taking offense to something you've said does not automatically mean that you are in the wrong. However, I don't understand why anyone would think that perhaps trying to exercise empathy first before just sticking to one's guns isn't the better strategy. Ultimately -- after a good night's sleep and some inner contemplation over your favorite cocktail (or whatever you drink to relax) -- you might conclude that you are still right on this one. But I would argue that it's still a better move to at least pretend that you understand where people are coming from and calmly explain the disconnect as opposed to just arrogantly doubling down.

Well, people don't react well to being censored or the threat of censorship. I didn't even see you'd edited my post, just thought I'd posted a broken image link and thus none of the conversation I was continuing was going to make any sense. I mean I personally feel it isn't obnoxious, so there we go, differing views.

Gabe reacted to the people calling him a rape culture apologist and all the craziest reading between the lines you could get. I'm not sure if anyone approached him calmly in email or whatever and said the strip had had a truly grievous affect on them, but then what does he do? Never make jokes about violence, or nudity, or whatever ever again when that is essentially PA's entire lifeblood. If he calmly and politely responded "I am very sorry, but you perhaps should not read my strip in the future" (which in a roundabout way HE DID, as above), that still wouldn't have been the end of it. He'd have been called an insensitive monster for not stopping his senseless lampooning of wolves with penis-legs and tails.

Also Twitter is the destruction of modern society. It is just the worst.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It's very simple to know which side is right: The side that tells people what they are and are not allowed to say is always wrong, 100% of the time.

Right.

Penny Arcade and its fans say that people are not allowed to criticize them, it's censorship. They are wrong.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

First of all, I removed the obnoxious Fry image. Secondly, it should be noted perhaps that doubling down isn't a good strategy. Obviously, someone taking offense to something you've said does not automatically mean that you are in the wrong. However, I don't understand why anyone would think that perhaps trying to exercise empathy first before just sticking to one's guns isn't the better strategy. Ultimately -- after a good night's sleep and some inner contemplation over your favorite cocktail (or whatever you drink to relax) -- you might conclude that you are still right on this one. But I would argue that it's still a better move to at least pretend that you understand where people are coming from and calmly explain the disconnect as opposed to just arrogantly doubling down.

If the PA guys think the criticism levied towards them is entirely off base then they have no obligation to apologize for anything. An apology would be an admission that what they did was wrong, which they absolutely should not do.

 

[dead souls]

If the PA guys think the criticism levied towards them is entirely off base then they have no obligation to apologize for anything. An apology would be an admission that what they did was wrong, which they absolutely should not do.

Really?

They couldn't just say "I'm sorry we offended people even though that wasn't our intent. We're not perfect, but we have heard and understood the complaints and will try to be better with respect to this issue in the future."

Seems pretty fucking simple to me.

 

[FutureZombie]

Right.

Penny Arcade and its fans say that people are not allowed to criticize them, it's censorship. They are wrong.

That's so disingenuous even you don't believe it.

It's sick that there are a large number of people who literally sit at their computers refreshing websites waiting until someone says something they don't like, so they can go on a crusade to get that person fired. These politically correct thugs want nothing more than to ruin people's careers for trivial reasons. Grow up, get over yourself, and get a life.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

That's so disingenuous even you don't believe it.

It's sick that there are a large number of people who literally sit at their computers refreshing websites waiting until someone says something they don't like, and then going on a crusade to get that person fired. These politically correct thugs want nothing more than to ruin people's careers for trivial reasons. Grow up, get over yourself, and get a life.

This may be the most ironic post in the universe.

Shut down everything.

 

[Roto13]

I should make more jokes about rape in my daily life.

 

[The_Lump]

Really?

They couldn't just say "I'm sorry we offended people even though that wasn't our intent. We're not perfect, but we have heard and understood the complaints and will try to be better with respect to this issue in the future."

Seems pretty fucking simple to me.

I think his point was, why should they have to - not would it be difficult to.


While I agree the easiest way to appease those offended would have been giving a simple apology such as that, I also agree they have no obligation to do so.