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Media Create Sales: Week 35, 2013 (Aug 26 - Sep 01)

The Horror the horror

The Horror the horror

Banned
It's all about the games.

The Wii U is an unimpressive piece of tech that is selling like crap.
The Vita is an impressive piece of tech that is selling like crap.

These platforms need hit games, not niche titles with great review scores.
 
P

Prelude.

Member
lol at the amazon haters

FFXIV:ARR
ff140zyoe.jpg


Jojo
jojoy6b9n.jpg
 
D

duckroll

Member
Pyscho_Mantis said:
Yup and thats why I want the PS4 to do well. The PS3 (along with many pubs being moneyhatted by MS) led some dire years at the beginning of this gen for japanese third parties. Probably why a lot turned to handhelds.
Click to expand...

I think it's going to be pretty hard to get a lot of the audience back. Even if the PS4 is priced perfectly, and the Xbox One is a non-starter, and the WiiU is dead, the market has still changed so significantly that there's no going back. There will still be less console development, there will be gamers who have grown up only knowing handheld gaming and pricing (usually 2/3 or 1/2 that of console games), gamers who are more familiar with the idea of playing games with friends outside than playing games on a TV at home, and so on.

It's almost impossible to move a market back to a higher price proposition after they have tasted lower pricing for something they consider similar to better value. It's one reason why PC games are almost always priced lower, and why sales are so frequent on digital platforms now. It's something that's expected, and once that expectation is there, if you try to ask more you risk completely losing out.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
The Horror the horror said:
It's all about the games.

The Wii U is an unimpressive piece of tech that is selling like crap.
The Vita is an impressive piece of tech that is selling like crap.

These platforms need hit games, not niche titles with great review scores.
Click to expand...

well the streaming tech on wiiu is pretty impressive i think.

i agree that those platform just need system selling software titles.
 
C

Celine

Member
duckroll said:
It's not so much that there's something wrong with it, rather that it is unhealthy for the overall market. If people are only buying Nintendo games and nothing else, and games from other publishers are not selling well on any platform, they will look elsewhere. That's partly why the market shifted so drastically towards portables, and now - towards mobiles.

Less variety for consumers = bad.
Click to expand...
The less variety offered on console have nothing to do if the "million selling list" of the generation include more or less Nintendo games but it's a consequence of the consolidation of the industry in the past decades.
Higher costs without a comparable increase in consumer base or additional revenue streams lead publishers to take less risks possible (which mean less variety).

As for what happened past gen on the home console front (especially in Japan),
a big role had the dichotomy between the consumers initially flocking to Wii and third-parties choosing the PS3 (and/or the 360 for a quick port job) since the beginning (actually well before it).
Publishers stance, PS3 high price, public interest in Wii novelty and Nintendo sheer power resulted in a stall with owning a big feud for itself and third-party games being somewhat restricted in reach (especially in the first years).
DS domination (relatively more influential in Japan than in US or Europe) and increased reliance on the abroad markets complicated the matter even more.
 
K

KillerTravis

Banned
Sweet Youkai Watch is doing better than expected! Animal Crossing and Mario Kart 7 also increased from last week. What caused this bump on 3DS?
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Road said:
http://garaph.info/linecompare.php/...psplaunch/gr-2/hf/sys-3/PSV/date-3/psvlaunch/

I don't know if you want system for system or start of gen; just add however you want.
Click to expand...

Ah I didn't realize garaph still worked for hardware. Thanks.

psvlaunchldsv9.png


Total Hardware:
DS/PSP: 22,930,074
3DS/Vita: 13,978,335
Decline: 39% (8,951,739 units)

Total Hardware (PSP cut off at Vita end date):
DS/PSP: 21,301,301
3DS/Vita: 13,978,335
Decline: 34.7% (7,322,966 units)

DS -> 3DS Only Decline:
DS: 17,419,440
3DS: 12,170,337
Decline: 31.1% (5,249,103 units)

PSP -> Vita Only Decline:
PSP: 3,881,861
Vita: 1,807,998
Decline: 53.4% (2,073,863 units)
 
1

1st Course

Member
SporeCrawler said:
and nintendo is a big part of the japanese gaming industry.you may want to check your numbers again
Click to expand...

I'm only talking about consoles here

If Nintendo stopped making consoles tomorrow, it will have almost no affect on Namco Bandai, Capcom, SE, Konami, Level-5, Gust etc.

If Sony stopped making consoles tomorrow, the entire Japanese console market will die.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
1st Course said:
I'm only talking about consoles here

If Nintendo stopped making consoles tomorrow, it will have almost no affect on Namco Bandai, Capcom, SE, Konami, Level-5, Gust etc.

If Sony stopped making consoles tomorrow, the entire Japanese console market will die.
Click to expand...
it would have effect on nintendo and nintendo is a big portion of the market.

nintendo stopping would have no effect on gaming is like saying if toyota, VW or GM stopped selling cars tomorrow it wouldnt effect the market at all.
casmith07 said:
Anybody who buys a Wii U before it costs anything more than $99 is throwing money down the drain.
Click to expand...

we are getting damn close
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
3DS got a nice bump in a week with new releases. Wii U just looks to be a dead platform and vita isn't looking any better. It's going to be very interesting to see what impact the PS4 has on the market.
 
F

Frillen

Member
Very surprised at how the Vita has declined lately. It was just two weeks ago that people were discussing the possibility of a new 15k baseline. Then it went from 19k to 11k. Then this week to 8k.
 
E

EdgeXL

Member
Does anybody know if Saki: Achiga-Hen Episode of Side-A Portable has a digital version in the PSN store? I may pick one up on my Japanese account.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
pretty good opening for ffxiv. nice bump for ps3 as a result of the top two (wowo jojo)

sad for the vita and wii u. i was wrong on the new floor for the wii u it seems. i thought w101 would have buoyed sales a bit more until bigger hitters. i'm surprised vita dropped off so fast after dragon's crown. was ffx/x-2 delayed in japan as well?
 
Y

Yasumi

Banned
TheChaos0 said:
ARR I can understand, what's the problem with JoJo?
Click to expand...

Lackluster story mode that was supposed to be unique, f2p-style campaign mode where you can pay actual money to recharge, and large number of DLC characters. I think those are the major ones.
 
V

vicissitudes

Banned
duckroll said:
I think it's going to be pretty hard to get a lot of the audience back. Even if the PS4 is priced perfectly, and the Xbox One is a non-starter, and the WiiU is dead, the market has still changed so significantly that there's no going back. There will still be less console development, there will be gamers who have grown up only knowing handheld gaming and pricing (usually 2/3 or 1/2 that of console games), gamers who are more familiar with the idea of playing games with friends outside than playing games on a TV at home, and so on.

It's almost impossible to move a market back to a higher price proposition after they have tasted lower pricing for something they consider similar to better value. It's one reason why PC games are almost always priced lower, and why sales are so frequent on digital platforms now. It's something that's expected, and once that expectation is there, if you try to ask more you risk completely losing out.
Click to expand...

Just looking at today's numbers should tell you that there is still significant demand for console gaming. The PS4 will have many things going for it that the PS3 didn't. Remember the PS3 didn't really take off until it hit $299 with the slim and FFXIII releasing. Looking at the PS4:

- It won't take 3 years for the price to drop to 29900 yen and for FFXV to release (I hope)
- It won't take 4 years for a Gran Turismo to release
- Japanese developers won't be solely making software for a competitor for the first few years
- Western games have gotten much more popular in Japan. CODBlops2 sold around 400k on the PS3 when in the previous gen shooters were non-sellers.
- New IPs and franchises have emerged this gen that are gaining popularity. Demon's Souls as an example of a new IP, Yakuza is more popular than ever, and Tales games have exploded on the PS3. Games like Ken's Rage (or whatever) and One Piece also sold way more than expected.

Of course we'll never return to the halcyon days of the PS1 but I can definitely see PS4 software numbers end up between the PS2 and the PS3, closer to PS2 numbers.
 
S

Sez

Member
duckroll said:
People don't generally pick a console and buy it, and then buy whatever games are on that console. That's a fanboy mentality.
Click to expand...

This happened worldwide with the Wii. (numbers made up for me because there is no any way to back it up) At least 50% of wii owners just bought whatever games on that console. Or do you really think that wii sports have 80 million fans and mario kart 30 millions? I got asked for at least 10 people "I have a wii and i don't know which game to buy".

duckroll said:
The shift in Japan away from consoles is definitely something which was heavily impacted by Sony's actions because it resulted in less console options and a hardware which was unattractive for a long time because of price and lack of content.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is an important shift to handhelds.

But how much of that was triggered for the big failure the PS3 was?

Right now it looks like a healthy system with 9 million consoles and good software attach ratio, but the first years were really bad. After 8 months the PS3 is the worst selling console, it sold worse than Wii U and with less software attach ration than the Wii U.

Just think as a developer. You have to increase costs for the HD development and at the same time face with the market rejecting the PS3 and not buying games for it. The Wii U will have heavy hitters in the first 2 years, but the PS3 didn't had any. GT5 came in dic 2010, FFXIII in dic 09.

People really forgot how bad the PS3 was, and how it played a big role in the handheld shift.
 
T

The_Macho_King

Banned
Both Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 are major releases for the platform. Both supposedly of high quality and you know... actual game releases. And even post release it looks like the Wii U is tracking even lower. Unbelievable.
 
B

B.O.O.M

Member
Horrible numbers for vita and wiiu hardware

Excellent for Jojo and FF14

I'm surprised with Ragnarok Ace too. it's the same damn game with few bits of new stuff added to it and it still sells so well. Hopefully they will announce a new Ragnarok for vita at TGS. I really enjoyed the coop with friends
 
H

Hiltz

Member
Nintendo's been on a losing streak with Wii U in Japan. Pikmin 3 still hasn't sold 200k copies and Wonderful 101 didn't take long to drop out of the top 20.
 
K

Kenka

Member
Nirolak said:
Well, I can at least do Square Enix for smartphones vs. every retail product they make (including consoles and Eidos) and the reasons they have stated for switching their focus around.

They still intend to do really big deal console games as those ones can make a lot of money, but smaller margin games seem to be falling by the wayside.
Click to expand...

It's awesome you took the time to do so. I am willing to learn more about the transition operating now, and comparing Gung-Ho and S-E, as well as the profitability per title developped on both environments will be one of the keys I guess to understand the shift occuring now, as senseless as it appears for some of us.

Bandai hasn't made the shift yet and takes advantage of S-E's absence to sell a lot of units each year. There isn't necessarily a need for JP publishers to force the move.
 
S

Shikoro

Member
Days like these... said:
I've been ready to call it for a while now. If Sony and 3rd parties don't come with a metric fuckton of announcements and support on sept. 9. Game over man, stick fork a in it, we're done. Well at least Japanese home console gaming anyways
Click to expand...

The main show is on the 19th and I hope that Sony bring it or else...
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
vicissitudes said:
Just looking at today's numbers should tell you that there is still significant demand for console gaming. The PS4 will have many things going for it that the PS3 didn't. Remember the PS3 didn't really take off until it hit $299 with the slim and FFXIII releasing. Looking at the PS4:

- It won't take 3 years for the price to drop to 29900 yen and for FFXV to release (I hope)
- It won't take 4 years for a Gran Turismo to release
- Japanese developers won't be solely making software for a competitor for the first few years
- Western games have gotten much more popular in Japan. CODBlops2 sold around 400k on the PS3 when in the previous gen shooters were non-sellers.
- New IPs and franchises have emerged this gen that are gaining popularity. Demon's Souls as an example of a new IP, Yakuza is more popular than ever, and Tales games have exploded on the PS3. Games like Ken's Rage (or whatever) and One Piece also sold way more than expected.

Of course we'll never return to the halcyon days of the PS1 but I can definitely see PS4 software numbers end up between the PS2 and the PS3, closer to PS2 numbers.
Click to expand...

The handheld market on just the DS -> 3DS is crashing by 30%+.

For the PS3 to get closer to the PS2 (and by that I mean like just over the halfway mark between PS2 and PS3), it would have to have over 72% growth.
 
C

chadboban

Member
casmith07 said:
Anybody who buys a Wii U before it costs anything more than $99 is throwing money down the drain.
Click to expand...

Okay, let me see if I'm reading this right. So you're saying that anyone who buys a Wii U before it costs MORE than $99 is throwing their money away? If so I guess no one is throwing their money away right now.
 
C

Cassovia

Member
duckroll said:
Since you asked for it, let's do it again. These are all Famitsu numbers. PS1 vs PS2 vs PS3, first party games bolded, cutoff point at 664k:

Playstation 1
12. Resident Evil - 1,194,779
30. Tales of Destiny - 829,618
43. Metal Gear Solid - 705,736
51. Tales of Eternia - 669,248

----

Playstation 2
02. Final Fantasy X - 2,325,215
03. Final Fantasy XII - 2,322,541
24. Metal Gear Solid 3 - 819,807
26. Metal Gear Solid 2 - 798,185
27. Tales of Destiny 2 - 762,861

------

Playstation 3
01. Final Fantasy XIII - 1,905,979
02. Final Fantasy XIII-2 - 860,514
03. One Piece Pirate Musou - 825,860
04. Resident Evil 6 - 832,296
05. Metal Gear Solid 4 - 706,461
06. Tales of Xillia - 664,952
Click to expand...

I have been playing videogames for more then two decades and I never seen such fragmentation of companies interests than this generation. People are blaming handhelds but that is actualy a part of lot of smaller problems.

Just look at the Tales of Xillia or MGS, yes, there is decline in sales, but not huge. Same goes for RE 6 (even with questionable quality). Even FFXIII didnt fall so much compare to its PS2 counterparts. We all know why XIII-2 failed so much. Then there was no mainline DQ, KH, Onimusha or Dino Crisis this time around.

If there is going to be a good reception of PS4, I can definetely see higher game sales than it was for PS3. Unfortunately, as you stated before, the era of PS1 and PS2 sales is long gone.
 
M

megabytecr

Member
So many games to play and the prices/model difference between tablet/smartphone and console games is huge, even handheld games.

I know some go down in price with time, but if the video game market does not adapt, I think it will find a slow death.

So many people are just satisfied with tablet/phone games.
Then you have the players that stick to 1-3 games a year (I would say this is the majority). This is possible, I mean they pick CoD, Fifa and maybe a racing game and they are set for the year. The niche (us) that need to buy and play almost every game out, are not enough to sustain the industry. Let's see if the next gen consoles inject some life to the industry, but after the expected high launch numbers I am starting to lose faith.

Steam and PC is doing a far better job in selling their games, at prices that can compete with tablet/phone model, if Steambox is able to attract enough partners it could implement the same model as Steam on the PC. We all want the best PC, but almost all PCs now can run games at modest settings.

With the PS3 and PS+ Sony is slowly having some great sales and incentives, but not enough like steam. Maybe next gen is when they start using the steam model and the PS+ paywall is there to cover for that.

Let's see what happens but I am a bit scared for another industry crash.

The_Macho_King said:
So where does the home console Wii owner migrate to in Japan? I wonder if Microsoft will see growth with the Xbone.
Click to expand...

Good question, probably some 3DS and some indeed on tablet/phones.
 
S

SpaceDrake

Member
Hurrrrrrfffff. Yeah, okay, for some reason I was remembering the WiiU numbers as the Wii ones. I forgot DQX started that strong. I guess that makes FFXIV the second-biggest debut, then.

Though DQ's debut wasn't split between two platforms. I still wonder at just what the PC numbers over there look like, even though we won't know since that is never really tracked (XIV being the biggest domestically-made PC game release in ages).
 
V

vicissitudes

Banned
Nirolak said:
The handheld market on just the DS -> 3DS is crashing by 30%+.

For the PS3 to get closer to the PS2 (and by that I mean like just over the halfway mark between PS2 and PS3), it would have to have over 72% growth.
Click to expand...

I was talking about software sales, not hardware. When you look at ~30 PS2 titles that reached 650k versus ~5 PS3 titles that reached 650k.....I think having around 20 PS4 titles reach those sales isn't that unreasonable.
 
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