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Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers

Jedi2016

Member
I imagine this same "improvement" will come to both systems as the OS and the other apps become more optimized over time, allowing for more resources. The argument's moot if both systems will be able to do it eventually.

Still, sounds like more damage control. Honestly, the best thing they can do about all this back and forth is to shut the hell up and just let it play out. Truth will out, one way or another.
 
Which im assuming Microsoft will release mature dev tools that support the common/intended use of that pool such as for a frame buffer, etc.
It's possible. Unfortunately, we haven't had any devs say that the XB1 is easy to develop for. So far, the ball's in Sony's court on that one.
 
I haven't read the thread so maybe this has been covered. But instead of a "power increase" isn't this a "power decrease" that may get lessened over time? Or am I reading it wrong?
 
You know what else is an incredible parallel? This generation compared to the fifth. Just replace SEGA with Microsoft. You have an expensive console that is a pain to develop for, you have Sony making this extremely simple and powerful console, and then Nintendo is working on a machine that uses older technology, alienating most developers.

Even the E3 announcements were the same. SEGA announced $399 earlier that day, then Sony comes out with the $299 price to an applause. Same as what happened in June.

You got to be kidding...when did the XBox become a pain to develop for? People have lost all logic, objectivity and reason in their blind haste to prop up and exalt Sony. Now we are just making stuff up like the XBox is terrible to code for...and the so called unbiased community lets an idiotic post like this stand...smdh.
 

onQ123

Member
How low did MS think Sony would go if they've built a console with a 1.3 TFlop GPU and a 10% reserve for camera/OS functionality? They must have thought Sony had a 1TFlop GPU or something?

I think Sony hit them with the old bait & switch move.

Sources Detail the PlayStation 4's Processing Specs
Next-gen system to sport AMD's A8-3850 APU and HD 7670 GPU.



The PlayStation 4, reportedly codenamed Orbis, may utilize custom chips based on AMD's A8-3850 APU and Radeon HD 7670 GPU, sources have told IGN, offering the combined performance of both integrated and discrete graphics processors.

According to the official product specs, the A8-3850 packs a quad-core 2.9GHz processor with an integrated graphics chip. The APU will work in tandem with the system's dedicated GPU, the HD 7670, a DirectX 11-enabled card clocked to 1GHz with up to 1GB of dedicated VRAM.



The HD 7670 is a rebranded version of last year's HD 6670, sporting identical specs across the board. If you recall, the HD 6670 is the same card that we reported will be used in the Xbox 720. The implication, of course, is that the two systems will effectively go toe-to-toe as far as discrete graphics are concerned.

By current standards, the HD 6670 is an entry-level processor with a price of about $74.99. Benchmark tests place framerate performance for taxing titles games like Metro 2033 and Crysis 2 set to high settings at a resolution of 1920x1080 (1080p) with average framerates of just over 30 frames-per-second. The chip also supports HDMI1.4a output, which is necessary for the system's rumored 4k output. Naturally, a comparably lightweight operating system and console-optimized games will likely improve performance, but the PS4's real edge could come from the secondary GPU provided by the APU.

Onboard the A8-3850 is an HD 6550D, which makes the APU capable of running games at baseline specs and lower resolutions without the help of a discrete GPU. When the APU is paired with the HD 7670, however, Sony will be able to utilize an asymmetrical CrossFire configuration to share the load of realtime graphics processing.

Our sources caution that while current plans for the device make use of the the chipsets mentioned, it is possible that changes could be made prior to the system's launch.

With publishers rumored to have already begun development for the system and the system slated for a 2013 release, additional details are sure to emerge over the next few months.


Edit: & that still would have been more powerful than the Xbox One when you add the APU with the GPU.
 
I haven't read the thread so maybe this has been covered. But instead of a "power increase" isn't this a "power decrease" that may get lessened over time? Or am I reading it wrong?
That's pretty much it. GPU has 10% dedicated to Kinect/OS, so that's confirmed. Possible reduction in future (basically... probably not gonna happen).
 
This is the truth. I was prepared to switch to microsoft this upcoming gen based on their previous track record. That was until they massively screwed up with the always online drm, relatively weak hardware, etc. If MS and Sony were flip-flopped with their current situation, I would go for the MS console hands down. I think that goes for most of us here.


With Every console generation I've bought the more powerful console first, and then explore other options later on as prices drop. No bias here other than the preference for the faster more powerful machine.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Do any of you remember the "PS3 has no games" meme?
That was GAF? Awesome. (I wasn't here during those times)

My only takeaway of GAF is that this is the place that will call out the industry when it does something stupid, which sets it apart from pretty much every other gaming site out there that does nothing but lick the balls of every manufacturer, developer, and publisher out there. GAF just tells it like it is.
 
damn, the amount of sony shills here attacking anybody that is remotely positive about the xbox 1.

stadium_guy_wtf.gif
 
You got to be kidding...when did the XBox become a pain to develop for? People have lost all logic, objectivity and reason in their blind haste to prop up and exalt Sony. Now we are just making stuff up like the XBox is terrible to code for...and the so called unbiased community lets an idiotic post like this stand...smdh.


Moth, meet flame.



Edit:


Clickclack
Banned



Poor guy, saw that one coming.
 
It's possible. Unfortunately, we haven't had any devs say that the XB1 is easy to develop for. So far, the ball's in Sony's court on that one.

I may have missed it but can you link to any devs saying the XB1 is a pain or terrible to develop on?

I'll hang up and wait for a link...thanks
 

Chobel

Member
Have we heard any devs say its difficult to program for? Lack of praise does not indicate it is a "pain".

In that famous EDGE article some devs said it was hard to program for Xbox One, however those devs were anonymous so it can't be verified now.
 
GAF has been called out on having a Sony bias since before the console reveals, it was true then and I'll just leave it at that.

Really? I always thought there was a good cross section of different fanboys and brand agnostics here.

Why can't you just acknowledge that MS did alot of things on x1 that most gaffers and the hardcore community at large just didn't like, hardware weakness relative to their primary competitor just being the tip of the iceburg. There was a trust there that was disrupted. It will rightfully take a while to be mended.
 

Iacobellis

Junior Member
You got to be kidding...when did the XBox become a pain to develop for? People have lost all logic, objectivity and reason in their blind haste to prop up and exalt Sony. Now we are just making stuff up like the XBox is terrible to code for...and the so called unbiased community lets an idiotic post like this stand...smdh.

Do you read GAF? At all? Microsoft is severely behind on drivers and the eSRAM doesn't work the same way as eDRAM did on the 360. It's kind of telling when first party studios are opting for 900p over 1080p.

Just because the systems share the same architecture doesn't mean it will be a 1:1 experience for developers.
 
It's a FACT, I was of the same opinion as you until that post.

Last gen Sony did things I didn't like so it took me a while to get a PS3, this is the same thing that's happening this year for me except in reverse. I hope both systems succeed, truly do because competition is the optimal driving force for these companies to get better, plus I love me some Halo lol.
 
Do you read GAF? At all? Microsoft is severely behind on drivers and the eSRAM doesn't work the same way as eDRAM did on the 360. It's kind of telling when first party studios are opting for 900p over 1080p.

Just because the systems share the same architecture doesn't mean it will be a 1:1 experience for developers.

But you have Sony doing the same thing...not everything they are releasing is 1080p...this on 56% more powerful hardware...
 

Ebomb

Banned
Yep. Edge article.

My interpretation was that was praising how easy the PS4 was rather than shitting on xbox one. Its great that you dont need to optimize code on the PS4 (obviously they still do though) at launch and really speaks to the great design that Sony has, but console optmization isnt unique to the xbox one. Especially at launch, I think the original post I responded to in this discussion exaggerated that claim, that is all.
 
Very possible. I hope the XB1 is easy to develop for because then devs can spend more time optimizing/polishing both versions. Also, exclusives would only look better with an easy system to develop for. I'd love to hear great news; I just haven't, yet.
 
You got to be kidding...when did the XBox become a pain to develop for? People have lost all logic, objectivity and reason in their blind haste to prop up and exalt Sony. Now we are just making stuff up like the XBox is terrible to code for...and the so called unbiased community lets an idiotic post like this stand...smdh.

smh indeed.

All sources stress that work on the graphics drivers will continue up to and beyond the Xbox One’s release, so it’s not a done deal. For now, however, it’s reportedly a pain in the ass.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/...Currently--Horrible---Says-Anonymous-Dev.html

“Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,” concluded one developer.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/
 
I'm a PC gamer so I have no real dog in the fight but there is definitely a Sony fanboy element to this forum. Am relatively new here so am just curious whether it came about due to E3 or it pre-dated it?


I've been lurking neogaf since 2008 and I can tell you Sony got their fair share of backlash. Whoever fucks up will hear it from neogaf.
 
One...ONE secrect dev...not even another dev corroborating? Yeah, that shit goes in the trash where it belongs unless we start hearing from more then one dev.
And lo, they shall name him the arbiter of all truth, and all who hear his words shall be content and at ease.
 
I'm a PC gamer so I have no real dog in the fight but there is definitely a Sony fanboy element to this forum. Am relatively new here so am just curious whether it came about due to E3 or it pre-dated it?

I think it seems that way simply because Sony has had a much more effective launch messaging/hardware reveals. MS's PR has stumbled over itself time and time again, and it seems like they did not target their audience correctly. Couple that with a more expensive machine and a lack of big-titled games releasing on the 360, it's quite easy to see why people are more in-tune with the PS4's offering. That's not to mention the out-of-gaming situation with the NSA coupling with them requiring a video camera connection with the box.

I am personally more interested in the xbone because of the multiple different aspects of the device and services that they are doing/planning (Kinect is interesting to me, along with some other things that I've seen/heard about that I can't speak about). I had a ps4 on preoder as well (since the ps3 was my main console last gen and the PS3's jrpgs/Japanese games appealed to me more at the time), but I cancelled because I won't have time to play all the launch games. I'll pick it up next spring ;)
 
And lo, they shall name him the arbiter of all truth, and all who hear his words shall be content and at ease.

Not at all...but if you chose not to put your name behind it...I'm sorry I'm going to raise an eyebrow.

You can talk all the shit you want hiding behind a cloak of anonymity...we all do it here every day. When proven full of shit...you don't have to answer for it. That's in essence what this dev is doing...he knows no one is going to call him out.
 

CLEEK

Member
My interpretation was that was praising how easy the PS4 was rather than shitting on xbox one.

The article isn't really open for interpretation. It was very clear in the quotes from devs that the Xbone is hard to developer for, due to the power difference, the current state of the drivers and the fact the console doesn't have unfed memory and uses eSRAM.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

Multiple high-level game development sources have described the difference in performance between the consoles as “significant” and “obvious.”

Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,” concluded one developer.

Microsoft “has been late on their drivers and that has been hurting them,” said one source. Another described Xbox One’s graphics drivers less charitably as “horrible”.
 
Not at all...but if you chose not to put your name behind it...I'm sorry I'm going to raise an eyebrow.

You can talk all the shit you want hiding behind a cloak of anonymity...we all do it here every day. When proven full of shit...you don't have to answer for it. That's in essence what this dev is doing...he knows no one is going to call him out.
You don't put your name out there because of non disclosure agreements. Not sure why a developer would go out of the way to say development is difficult for Xbox. Developers had no qualms about the pains of developing for ps3.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
I think GAF being pro Sony is great and healthy, I just get frustrated with how Anti Xbox One it is as a person settled on getting an Xbox One at launch.

I don't think the problem is of Gaf's making though. MS change their messaging on a daily basis and put out false information that some members on Gaf just can't let go without question. I mean, look at the thread you're in at the moment. This is admitting the X1 is actually weaker than Gaf first thought because it confirms they set 10% aside for Kinect/snap mode, and YET it's dressed up as a positive! Surely you can understand why this thread has so much MS negativity in it? This is just spin and shows a level of desperation I have personally never witnessed before.
 
it's becoming very one sided here. Use to seem very balanced, but the last 6 months, a biased has very much grown here and seems to be going against everything that neogaf stood for.

Are you new here?

There's no fixed company bias.

Everything is scrutinized. You're seeing it as "people disliking something because Microsoft is involved" when in reality it is "people disliking something because the subject is lying or trying to lie".

This article is a bunch of horseshit trying to make a bad thing sound like a good thing by describing how a computer works.
Look at the Microsoft Japan thread. When asked about the success of the Xbox One, given the poor sales of the Xbox 360, the rep simply tells the person that those numbers aren't public, when they VERY MUCH ARE.

Ever since the Xbox One has been revealed, Microsoft has literally everything possible in their power to alienate their customers, developers and suppliers.

NONE of what is happening to Microsoft isn't deserved.

They wanted to fuck over Mom & Pop used game stores by blocking used game sales.
They wanted to fuck over customers by making your device worthless once the servers die, and make trading games impossible. Even going so far as to saying "We have an offline console. It's called the Xbox 360."
They wanted to fuck over indie developers by giving them late access and substandard dev kits.

This isn't about Sony. This isn't about Nintendo, Apple, Google, or system wars at this point. This is enjoying the incredible carnival that Microsoft has been putting on since their reveal.

While you may have some allegiance to the Xbox 360, since you may have invested a lot of time into it, other people are able to step back from their game library and objectively examine the situation and go "Well, shit. They done fucked up."

I think GAF being pro Sony is great and healthy, I just get frustrated with how Anti Xbox One it is as a person settled on getting an Xbox One at launch.
So your problem is that you dislike negative things being brought to light about a product you are about to invest in. And instead of investing in something else, you're trying to minimize, in your mind, the actual reality of it.
 

Chobel

Member
Not at all...but if you chose not to put your name behind it...I'm sorry I'm going to raise an eyebrow.

You can talk all the shit you want hiding behind a cloak of anonymity...we all do it here every day. When proven full of shit...you don't have to answer for it. That's in essence what this dev is doing...he knows no one is going to call him out.

Phil Harrison said this
The other is that any time that you ask a developer – including, by the way, our own internal studios – in the run up to launch of a console you’re going to get a slightly nuanced answer because the operating system’s not finished, the performance of the machine’s not locked, and as you may be aware we can increase CPU and GPU capability on Xbox One

Source
 

skdoo

Banned
I remember reading all the posts leading up to the MS reveal - there was a lot of anticipation here. I applied shortly after E3 for an account after witnessing the carnage. It was brutal
 
The article isn't really open for interpretation. It was very clear in the quotes from devs that the Xbone is hard to developer for, due to the power difference, the current state of the drivers and the fact the console doesn't have unfed memory and uses eSRAM.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/pow...erences-between-ps4-and-xbox-one-performance/

So in summation...on the topic at hand..ONE developer stated it's hard to develop on...not multiple...fair? He also will remain behind the vail of anonymity.
 
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