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[TheD]

No you're right, and I agree with you. But this is also a part of our society and life at this point. Marketing definitely deeply impacts pretty much every major decision of our lives. But at the same point I'm talking purely from the standpoint of a game console recommending/advertising games and other interests that fit the medium. I just don't feel THAT specific type of advertisement fits the demonizing its getting, especially when we're targeting one platform and ignoring others (again, granted ontopic this is about the potential NuAd kinect based stuff... I'm again speaking generally).

I do not want to see the type of person that is so affected by marketing that it "deeply impacts pretty much every major decision"!

It is also not the console recommending games that is the problem.
It is trying to advertise other types of products, using something like kinect to look into your room and tell advertisers what you are doing when the ad plays (to help with their goals of advertising products at you) and trying to use kinect to get people to interact with ads that is the problem!

This seems a bit off topic, but either way..... By this logic, anything that isn't perfect or performs as well as hoped should be discarded and given up on. The kinect itself has POTENTIAL to add tons of features/ideas/innovations to gaming.

The original just wasn't up to snuff and like many add-ons suffered from being a separate purchase that developers couldn't count on people having. So building games around it automatically meant you're cutting your sales to only people that have invested into the addon. Being a mandatory pack-in means that every developer CAN count on this being available and as such can develop games completely around interacting with the device. I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding that concept. Just because the previous version (which was an add-on) didn't give us great experiences does not mean that the future of the device is doomed. Its really up to developers to get in there and start playing with ideas and work with it.

As for Ryse going back to regular controls, I'm not sure why they did/haven't read anything about it, but there are plenty of possible reasons for beyond 'kinect sucks, waste of money, blah blah blah'. I don't expect launch titles to A. Perform the best B. Look the best and C. take advantage of everything new consoles have to offer.

More and more it seems like 'hardcore gaming' is becoming synonymous with 'don't try new things, prettier graphics, and give me the a new CoD'. What happened to 'whats possible with this', especially when the damn thing isn't even out.

Kinect has shown that it has huge, fundamental flaws that can not be overlooked!
Trying to map the movement of arms and legs to arbitrary actions in games will never work!
The lack of any form of tactile feedback also dooms it.

Hardcore gaming is about not wanting something bad just because people that can not give a real world reason why it is good want it to be the "next big thing"! (e.g You!)

I'm seriously annoyed with all the "well it's only if you opt-in"-comments I've seen over the internet in discussions on this new piece of news. That's not the point. This isn't what a gaming console (or a media box for that matter) should be used for. It's disgusting and disturbing that they can even think of something like this. And add to this the fact that they wanted Kinect and online to be mandatory from the start. So maybe they didn't intend this to be opt-in, but for everyone? They must have completely lost the plot, lost the touch with their customers.

Panello, if you happen to be reading this:
Get a grip MS.
You did just about everything wrong with the Xbox One.
The hardware is weak, far weaker than your competitors box. I know how you must have felt when you saw the Wii succeed with its inferior hardware, but common who really liked the fact that the Wii didn't give us Mario Galaxy in HD?
You made the Kinect mandatory, even though you must have known a huge part of your true fanbase wouldn't want that.
The price is too high.
You came up with a disgusting new way of advertising shit, which clearly shows what your true intent with the Kinect is.
You have hid behind a new buzzword every month, until proven wrong either by people that knows what they are talking about, or by things actually not working in actual demos. Remember when you told us the "power of the cloud" was infinite? Then it was 4 times the power of the Xbox, PER Xbox. What was it, "4 xboxes running in the cloud for each xbox".
I really hope the Xbox One fails miserably, just so you not only go back to the drawing board for the hardware and the games, but your entire way of approaching this market and its customers.

 

[Faustek]

Nah, I never watch porn... on my TV.

Seriously, as soon as the Oculus comes with some high res panels thats what I'm using, that and 4k TV as soon as the Asians start delivering in native resolution(not saying I prefer asians........ just saying I believe them to be faster in delivering).

This is for sure happening. There is no, "if this is implemented". They probably already have it 100% working.

Thats why people need to wake up and actually start considering an option as SteamOS.
Sure Valve will probably release it under the LGPL licence making their own software closed source(steam that is...but not 100%) instead of GPL but as the kernel is under the GPL and 99.99% open source there will always be fixes if Valve decides to go adSkyNet on us. These fixes doesn't exist for Microsoft nor Sony if they decide to partake in this unholy pile of madness.

 

[dcx4610]

I knew it from day one that the goal of Xbox One was to data mine. Microsoft has never been about just simply making a video game system for gamers. They wanted to take over the living room.

With the Xbox, it was about showcasing Direct X with the goal of all games being made with DX. With the 360, it was establishing Xbox Live. With the One, it's total living room integration.

WIth Kinect, Microsoft can view how many people are in the room, check your heart rate, view if you are smiling, frowning, surprised or not even watching. This will lead to viewer specific advertising, PPV rates and most imporantly to gauge what is or isn't working in a game, movie, ad or TV shows based on your reactions. This can then be sold to marketing firms, advertisers and studios for research.

It's a marketing gold mine and everyone that buys one is going to be the guinea pig.

 

[Faustek]

It's not an illegitimate comparison, though. There are obviously points of difference but there are also many of similarity.

Before I pen a stupid response, would you mind elaborating to the similarities? Other than it can record us dancing that is.

 

[coolasj19]

I don't know why everyones being so paranoid. Imagine the possibilities. The Kinect could scan your room for you, and when you start running out of Mountain Dew and Doritos, it could start giving you ads recommending you to buy more !! Honestly, I can't look forward enough to the possible conveniences that come from privacy invasion.

 

[CLEEK]

At least from my part, it's not about being watched at all -- I don't expect MS to quite literally have a file with the actual video feed of Kinect. But there's still plenty of meta data I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being available. Reverse-engineering the ads that were fed to my console could potentially identify it.

It was in a previous interview where they talked about how how Kinect and advertising worked. How advertisers would have access to "a slightly more limited set" of the Kinect biometric information to help target ads.

The attending Xbox LIVE Advertising Developer commented that they don’t actually receive a lot of the biometric information collected by Kinect. “This sort of works at two levels. There’s the game producers who have a different API, so a different set of code and system that they use, and they’ve got a lot more control of the whole thing,” he stated, “whereas from the advertising point of view we have a slightly more limited set, which is designed to protect the user. The company is very keen on protecting the user from any sort of abuse so we can’t do certain things.”

They didn't specify exactly what data is available to advertisers, and no MS execs have discussed this further since.

The privacy concerns with Kinect have nothing to do with the idea is will just act as an 'always online' CCTV camera pointed into your home. That isn't ever going to happen, but doesn't mean that the meta-data recorded by the Xbone won't contain a massive amount of private data. The interview was the first time that anyone at MS has publicly stated that Kinect constantly records biometric data of who is in the room and transmits it to MS when the console is online. MS make an undisclosed subset of this personal data available to 3rd parties. This isn't paranoia, but confirmation it occurs.

Albert recently said that 'to his knowledge' this isn't happening. If you look at MS recent track record with denying involvement with the NSA and their utter disregard for people's privacy, do you believe him?

 

[FINALBOSS]

It's not an illegitimate comparison, though. There are obviously points of difference but there are also many of similarity.

Sorry, don't see it. Unless you contend that they are similar in that they can "spy" on you, than sure.

 

[2345425]

Sorry, don't see it. Unless you contend that they are similar in that they can "spy" on you, than sure.

The only thing I can think of is that they're all potentially connected to the internet.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I knew it from day one that the goal of Xbox One was to data mine. Microsoft has never been about just simply making a video game system for gamers. They wanted to take over the living room.

With the Xbox, it was about showcasing Direct X with the goal of all games being made with DX. With the 360, it was establishing Xbox Live. With the One, it's total living room integration.

WIth Kinect, Microsoft can view how many people are in the room, check your heart rate, view if you are smiling, frowning, surprised or not even watching. This will lead to viewer specific advertising, PPV rates and most imporantly to gauge what is or isn't working in a game, movie, ad or TV shows based on your reactions. This can then be sold to marketing firms, advertisers and studios for research.

It's a marketing gold mine and everyone that buys one is going to be the guinea pig.

It'll be interesting to see how they attempt to reshape their plans since being forced to do a 180 on everything. Since they now claim it doesn't have to be connected to the internet every 24 hours, and even the kinect is not "required". I'm guessing that will only apply to silver membership, if you get gold you'll still be required to use kinect for some ludicrous made-up reason.

 

[hawk2025]

It was in a previous interview where they talked about how how Kinect and advertising worked. How advertisers would have access to "a slightly more limited set" of the Kinect biometric information to help target ads.



They didn't specify exactly what data is available to advertisers, and no MS execs have discussed this further since.

The privacy concerns with Kinect have nothing to do with the idea is will just act as an 'always online' CCTV camera pointed into your home. That isn't ever going to happen, but doesn't mean that the meta-data recorded by the Xbone won't contain a massive amount of private data. The interview was the first time that anyone at MS has publicly stated that Kinect constantly records biometric data of who is in the room and transmits it to MS when the console is online. MS make an undisclosed subset of this personal data available to 3rd parties. This isn't paranoia, but confirmation it occurs.

Albert recently said that 'to his knowledge' this isn't happening. If you look at MS recent track record with denying involvement with the NSA and their utter disregard for people's privacy, do you believe him?

Hold up.

One second.

Penello said there's "no one working on that" (paraphrasing) when talking about ads using Kinect.

...but they have fucking APIs ready? Am I understanding it right?

 

[CLEEK]

Hold up.

One second.

Penello said there's "no one working on that" (paraphrasing) when talking about ads using Kinect.

...but they have fucking APIs ready? Am I understanding it right?

Yes, you're understanding it correctly.

So, my question again. Do you believe Albert?

Edit: maybe no one is working on it any more as it was finished months ago!

 

[twobear]

Before I pen a stupid response, would you mind elaborating to the similarities? Other than it can record us dancing that is.

You want me to point out the similarities between two cameras/recording devices attached to internet-connected machines? I would have thought that was self-evident.

Of course there are differences, pretty important ones, and that's where the bone of contention lies. It's similar to the 'it's just like Steam' comparison in that, yes, while there are some ways in which it's like Steam, there are also major important ways in which the Xbone's original setup was different to, and significantly worse than, Steam.

The point being, if your worry with Kinect is that you don't want a camera pointing at you that you think might be spying for the NSA or whatever, then it is legitimate to point out that you probably already do have a camera pointed at you, attached to a device with a GPS, microphone, etc. that you carry about with you, which in theory could be used in exactly the same way.

Conversely, if your worry is about the ways in which Microsoft will actually use the Kinect system, that is, to try to get you to 'interact' with adverts in a way that no sane consumer could possibly want, or automatically detect your presence in the room so that it can serve you ads that it thinks you care about, then obviously the situations are not the same or similar, because while in theory Apple (for instance) could use the iSight camera in my iMac and MacBook to do exactly that, they haven't, and a reasonable inference from their past behaviour is that they wont.

I hope this answers your question.

[edit] NB: I said it's not an illegitimate comparison; a comparison doesn't mean that you are insisting on similarly. Comparison can mean highlighting and helping to clarify differences.

 

[2345425]

It'll be interesting to see how they attempt to reshape their plans since being forced to do a 180 on everything. Since they now claim it doesn't have to be connected to the internet every 24 hours, and even the kinect is not "required". I'm guessing that will only apply to silver membership, if you get gold you'll still be required to use kinect for some ludicrous made-up reason.

They could make the use of Kinect mandatory for first party games.

 

[coolasj19]

Yes, you're understanding it correctly.
So, my question again. Do you believe Albert?
Edit: maybe no one is working on it any more as it was finished months ago!

To his defense, he prefaced it with something along the lines of "To my knowledge". It'd be foolish to assume he knows everything.

 

[Faustek]

You want me to point out the similarities between two cameras/recording devices attached to internet-connected machines? I would have thought that was self-evident.

Of course there are differences, pretty important ones, and that's where the bone of contention lies. It's similar to the 'it's just like Steam' comparison in that, yes, while there are some ways in which it's like Steam, there are also major important ways in which the Xbone's original setup was different to, and significantly worse than, Steam.

The point being, if your worry with Kinect is that you don't want a camera pointing at you that you think might be spying for the NSA or whatever, then it is legitimate to point out that you probably already do have a camera pointed at you, attached to a device with a GPS, microphone, etc. that you carry about with you, which in theory could be used in exactly the same way.

Conversely, if your worry is about the ways in which Microsoft will actually use the Kinect system, that is, to try to get you to 'interact' with adverts in a way that no sane consumer could possibly want, or automatically detect your presence in the room so that it can serve you ads that it thinks you care about, then obviously the situations are not comparable, because while in theory Apple (for instance) could use the iSight camera in my iMac and MacBook to do exactly that, they haven't, and a reasonable inference from their past behaviour is that they wont.

I hope this answers your question.

I was mostly afraid that this was like when some people tried to liken the Xbone and Steam. But I'm glad to see I was totally off base in my worries.

And for my worries, not so much the NSA I use my own homebrew(mostly rewritten stuff to suite my quirks) on nearly every single "smart" device I own. So no not worried the NSA will "find" me here in Sweden or the kinect trying to recommend some awful bourbon for me to drink(not buying it until I see some fun homebrew for it). It's more a worry about the implications that will follow.

I don't think anything or anyone has any right to "spy" on me or my family.
I do not believe a company that has SOLD me a $500 device has any right to throw me paid ads in the face.
I do not buy into the "you are licensing this from us" corporate mentality which EU is soon to follow if not Germany puts on the Power.

Simply put I want at least the basic decency to me and my fellow man who don't understand the ramifications this can bring(will) to at least admit that you're going to go full creep on us as soon as the chance is given.

 

[famousmortimer]

Yeah, I remember you were briefly talking about your switch to Android on an episode of your podcast. I have a 5 right now and am on the fence of sticking with iOS or jumping to Android when the Nexus 5 is released. 5-6 years of using the same software is really starting to get stale. May I ask why you don't like Apple as a company?

1. Form over function.

2. Closed ecosystem



My wife only uses macs... I've never owned one. I bought her most recent macbook for $1200 2 years ago. I bought myself a gaming PC for $750. My PC is about 19X as powerful as her mac book. But her mac book is pretty. I like pretty... but not for that much money.

As far as phones... iOS is really limited. When i made the switch to android (I have a Galaxy Note 2) I thought it was a mess at first... because iOS is so damn simple and android allows you to customize everything. But after about a month I can say I'll never go back. I can change every single thing about my phone. I love that. iOS refuses to be flexable.

And that carries over to the store. I can get an adblocker on google play... apple would never allow that. I can get many apps that state "this only works with a jailbroken phone" i google play... apple's head would explode. It's just so much more fun... if you're willing to roll up your sleaves and learn it all.


I respect Apple for a few things. Stylistically they are amazing. Not $500 more than a laptop should cost amazing, but pretty amazing. I love that Jobs was insane about how things looked, being very involved with fonts and things like that. I think without apple computer OS's would be very, very lame. I mean who would MS steal from for each new version of windows?


So i don't really hate apple - I'm just frustrated by them. The closed marketplace and OS on the iPhone is why I switched to Android and why I likely will never go back. That said, weirdly, I feel like iOS is great for tablets. There's no need (or less need) for widgets and whatnot on a tablet.


And for the person who said "I wouldn't put privacy and google in the same sentence." I agree... and said as much. The difference is that it's very easy to find software to block most of that shit. You can do that on iOS as well, but it requires a jailbreak.

 

[hawk2025]

To his defense, he prefaced it with something along the lines of "To my knowledge". It'd be foolish to assume he knows everything.

He wouldn't know about a whole damn API being created for advertisement services?


Bull. Shit.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Will it be possible to run an Xbox One without a Kinnect being hooked up to it?

 

[Garrett 2U]

Will it be possible to run an Xbox One without a Kinnect being hooked up to it?

Yes

 

[MesserWolf]

We just had a big scandal of a gov agency collecting mass of data without anybody knowing, with the cooperation of the biggest companies over the internet...... we had big scandals over system hacked and the personal informations of millions of people being stolen by unknown criminals.....

and yet some seem perfectly fine with the idea to buy and install a sophisticated camera in their living room collecting data and transmitting it over the internet.

All this for what ? for some crappy kinect game and some stupid gesture control.

All this would be already bad, but on top of this you have that you are forced to buy this camera with the console. A camera whose declared goal, among the others is to collect behavioural data to feed to advertiser so they can engineer better ways to manipulate you and the people near you (kiids included as we are talking of a game console) into buying their unnecessary stuff.

How can you value your privacy so low that you even pay to have less of it ? How can you be happy of buying a machine created with the advertiser in mind (and yet you bear the cost of it) when until recently it was all ad-free ?

 

[famousmortimer]

Will it be possible to run an Xbox One without a Kinnect being hooked up to it?

Yes, but we don't know how much. There was a modifier in their wording that made it sound required for certain things. I don't know if that's as simple as "games that require kinect" or if it's a bit more sinister like "no way you fuckers are turning this off while you use our TV functions."

 

[Barzul]

Yes, but we don't know how much. There was a modifier in their wording that made it sound required for certain things. I don't know if that's as simple as "games that require kinect" or if it's a bit more sinister like "no way you fuckers are turning this off while you use our TV functions."

I think Penello or was it Whitten actually went into full details about it. And that only things that obviously require Kinect like Skype or Kinect only games will require it's use.

 

[Chobel]

To his defense, he prefaced it with something along the lines of "To my knowledge". It'd be foolish to assume he knows everything.

From his LinkedIn page
He works Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research at Microsoft, he worked as "Director Of Marketing at Microsoft" and as "Product Marketing Manager at Electronic Arts".
What would be foolish is to assume he doesn't know about advertising APIs.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I don't know why everyones being so paranoid. Imagine the possibilities. The Kinect could scan your room for you, and when you start running out of Mountain Dew and Doritos, it could start giving you ads recommending you to buy more !! Honestly, I can't look forward enough to the possible conveniences that come from privacy invasion.

How about if you're having a heart attack it can detect something is wrong and call 911

Edit: when you get home from the hospital you'll be bombarded with cholesterol medication ads

 

[Chobel]

I think Penello or was it Whitten actually went into full details about it. And that only things that obviously require Kinect like Skype or Kinect only games will require it's use.

It would be great if you can provide some links. I only read IGN AMA and there's nothing there that illustrate the cases where Kinect is required.

 

[Freki]

How about if you're having a heart attack it can detect something is wrong and call 911

Edit: when you get home from the hospital you'll be bombarded with cholesterol medication ads

How about if it detects problems with your heart it informs your insurance company so they can adjust the rates...

 

[CLEEK]

The article in the OP categorically states that MS are actively working on using Kinect for ads.

"We are trying to bridge some of the world between online and offline," he said. "That's a little bit of a holy grail in terms of how you understand the consumer in that 360 degrees of their life. We have a pretty unique position at Microsoft because of what we do with digital, as well as more and more with television because of Xbox. It's early days, but we're starting to put that together in more of a unifying way, and hopefully at some point we can start to offer that to advertisers broadly."

They say it's early days and they're not ready to offer it to advertises, but they are working on it. As per the earlier interview, the APIs are in place, and the Xbone's dashboard has been designed from the ground up with advertising in mind.

It could be that Albert is unaware of this and has never met Yusuf Mehdi, corporate VP-marketing and strategy for Microsoft, or anyone in the Xbox LIVE advertising team. Or, you know, is doing PR spin and trying to have plausible deniability by adding the 'to my knowledge' caveat.

 

[famousmortimer]

I think Penello or was it Whitten actually went into full details about it. And that only things that obviously require Kinect like Skype or Kinect only games will require it's use.

Right. But TV stuff may be something that "obviously requires" it. And that's where NuADs come in.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

How about if it detects problems with your heart it informs your insurance company so they can adjust the rates...

Lol seriously. "This guy eats too many Doritos, we need to triple his rates"

 

[FINALBOSS]

I find it very hard to believe that Albert had no idea about NUAd. He was just straight up bullshitting us.

 

[Barzul]

It would be great if you can provide some links. I only read IGN AMA and there's nothing there that illustrate the cases where Kinect is required.

I'll search for it. I think it was one of Penello's posts.

Here it is:

We still believe in Kinect. We aren’t interested in splitting the development base. The more demos I’ve seen, the more I’ve used it – the more impressed I am. The team feels strongly about Kinect, and I hope we’re able to prove that when you use it.

We also have a ton of privacy settings to allow people to turn off the camera, or microphones, or put it in a state just for “Xbox On” and IR blasting – there will be a lot of user control for that.

The thing we all understood, and hence this change, is that there are some scenarios where people just may not be comfortable. We wanted people to be 100% comfortable, so we allow the sensor to be unplugged. And clearly the “it dropped” scenario is possible.

The most obvious thing is watching a DVD/BD, or streaming a movie, or HDMI pass-through, your experience isn’t impacted (except you miss voice and IR blasting)

There is no “gotcha”, but obviously, if there is a game that REQUIRES Kinect (like Rivals), or something where Kinect IS the experience (like Skype), those won’t work.

That said, for people who have privacy concerns there are user control settings, which we believe are great.

I bolded what I consider the most important point.

 

[Iacobellis]

1. Form over function.

2. Closed ecosystem



My wife only uses macs... I've never owned one. I bought her most recent macbook for $1200 2 years ago. I bought myself a gaming PC for $750. My PC is about 19X as powerful as her mac book. But her mac book is pretty. I like pretty... but not for that much money.

As far as phones... iOS is really limited. When i made the switch to android (I have a Galaxy Note 2) I thought it was a mess at first... because iOS is so damn simple and android allows you to customize everything. But after about a month I can say I'll never go back. I can change every single thing about my phone. I love that. iOS refuses to be flexable.

And that carries over to the store. I can get an adblocker on google play... apple would never allow that. I can get many apps that state "this only works with a jailbroken phone" i google play... apple's head would explode. It's just so much more fun... if you're willing to roll up your sleaves and learn it all.


I respect Apple for a few things. Stylistically they are amazing. Not $500 more than a laptop should cost amazing, but pretty amazing. I love that Jobs was insane about how things looked, being very involved with fonts and things like that. I think without apple computer OS's would be very, very lame. I mean who would MS steal from for each new version of windows?


So i don't really hate apple - I'm just frustrated by them. The closed marketplace and OS on the iPhone is why I switched to Android and why I likely will never go back. That said, weirdly, I feel like iOS is great for tablets. There's no need (or less need) for widgets and whatnot on a tablet.


And for the person who said "I wouldn't put privacy and google in the same sentence." I agree... and said as much. The difference is that it's very easy to find software to block most of that shit. You can do that on iOS as well, but it requires a jailbreak.

I used to jailbreak the newest version of iOS and be set from there. Lately, it seems like we go ages without the proper exploit for a new device, which can be come maddening.

It's funny you mention the way Steve freaked out over design. I've been on an Apple keynote kick recently and he said the same things during his speech at Stanford University about typography and Mac OS setting the standard in that regard. His jab at Windows made the class of 2005 burst out in laughter.

I just feel as if Google doesn't have the proper ecosystem that Apple does right now. I've dropped Pandora (which was becoming a mess) in favor of iTunes Radio. It has become a sort of blessing to have a radio app in the OS of my Mac and iPhone. Less ads, more skips, and an overall more stable experience than Pandora is. I feel like I will be yearning for these simplicities if I switch to Android.

Macs are expensive, no doubt about it. But, they offer better build quality than any PC I've ever used. Dell, HP, Toshiba, Acer, etc. don't come close. OS upgrades are also ridiculously cheap, usually $20 or $30.

 

[TheD]

Hold up.

One second.

Penello said there's "no one working on that" (paraphrasing) when talking about ads using Kinect.

...but they have fucking APIs ready? Am I understanding it right?

Yeah, I also found it odd that Penello said that, very much so when they talked about it to marketers months before he posted that!

 

[Dart]

How about if it detects problems with your heart it informs your insurance company so they can adjust the rates...

The Dewritos partnership is starting to make sense now... I'll be sure to diskinect.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Yeah, I also found it odd that Penello said that, very much so when they talked about it to marketers months before he posted that!

It was really weird cause panello said they weren't working on anything but when someone asked a simple yes or no question about biometrics data collection Penello didn't answer. He said it's a sensitive issue and he didn't have time to elaborate. He could have just said No.

 

[Chobel]

I'll search for it. I think it was one of Penello's posts.

Here it is:

I bolded what I consider the most important point.

Thank you for this, but In that quote he still don't define all the cases where Kinect is required. He only mention one case outside of gaming "skype". Is it the only case? from his wording "or something where Kinect IS the experience (like Skype)" it could be other cases.

However I searched his posts too and I found this

Albert, if still up and around how does disconnecting Kinect (pun intended? No? Idk lol) effect the TV functionality? My assumption is that a 3rd party ir blaster would be required?

It would still work, but you loose a lot of cool features. You could still do HDMI pass-through, you'd just need to use your old remote instead. You'd loose the IR blasting (unless you got an external one), and you'd loose the ability to just say TV stations and have it tune (Xbox, go to Discovery Channel). The One Guide for TV wouldn't be very useful, so favorite channels stuff would be gone. You'd loose "Xbox On". Essentially it would turn the Xbox into a very expensive HDMI switcher.

Again to my point - the box will function without Kinect, but a lot of the stuff that's unique and cool about the system wouldn't be there.

TV functionality can still be done without Kinect.

 

[Night Angel]

I find it very hard to believe that Albert had no idea about NUAd. He was just straight up bullshitting us.

Wouldn't be the first time, now, would it?

It's amazing how much that guy has damaged the XB1 by coming on here to try and massage our views on it.

If this ends up buried in their ToS and opt-out rather than being opt-in and incredibly transparent about what will be sent and to whom, I might be unplugging that potential spy device from my console. However, if I have control (HA, after the NSA thing... ha... ), I don't see any issue with others choosing to receive targeted ads.

Obviously, the best case would be no ads at all. It still pisses me off that I have ads on the 360.

 

[HariKari]

Yes

We won't know if that comes without any strings attached until the damn thing is out. Even then, they can go back on their word or simply make it required for popular titles like Halo. It's pretty clear what the endgame is here, and that MS will do everything possible to get to that point. The whole thing was sketchy from the moment they announced that a camera and microphone would be required for the Xbone to function. Giant red flag.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Wouldn't be the first time, now, would it?

It's amazing how much that guy has damaged the XB1 by coming on here to try and massage our views on it.

If this ends up buried in their ToS and opt-out rather than being opt-in and incredibly transparent about what will be sent and to whom, I might be unplugging that potential spy device from my console. However, if I have control (HA, after the NSA thing... ha... ), I don't see any issue with others choosing to receive targeted ads.

Obviously, the best case would be no ads at all. It still pisses me off that I have ads on the 360.

Pretty much this.

 

[Amir0x]

Wouldn't be the first time, now, would it?

It's amazing how much that guy has damaged the XB1 by coming on here to try and massage our views on it.

If this ends up buried in their ToS and opt-out rather than being opt-in and incredibly transparent about what will be sent and to whom, I might be unplugging that potential spy device from my console. However, if I have control (HA, after the NSA thing... ha... ), I don't see any issue with others choosing to receive targeted ads.

Obviously, the best case would be no ads at all. It still pisses me off that I have ads on the 360.

I really was understanding of Albert Penello's early days, it seemed a breath of fresh air after all the horrific Microsoft PR. But it is now becoming increasingly clear his goal may have in fact been to simply synchronize a PR message which attempted to muddy PS4's indisputable significant technical advantage, and doesn't seem like it was based on his own particularly deep understanding (to be fair, he never said it was though) and it doesn't even seem to be accurate all the time (like how he was caught with his pants down over the announcement that many Kinect features will be delayed even if some of the countries that are tier 1). He said we would get a chart to show which Kinect features will work where at launch, and then later he said it's out of his hands as the hardware/software people have to write it up, and they haven't done it yet. That may be true, but making such promises and then never delivering just damages the brand further, and the continued silence, PR deceptions, exaggerations and constant delays to promised features - whether they are because of what had to happen after the 180s or not - has really made it impossible to trust anything coming from Microsoft right now.

And sadly, evidence has shown, it makes it sort of difficult to trust anything coming from Albert Penello with regards to Xbox One, since he either himself is not always informed of drastic changes or delays before hand, or he and Major Nelson are busy synchronizing messaging over the Xbox One's power vs. the PS4, couching the discussion in intentionally vague or misleading language in an attempt to make those lesser informed on the subject of techs convinced the gap isn't as huge.

The kicker is always "well do the games show it", knowing full well that means jack and shit for launch titles and that this wouldn't be how we accurately compared specs anyway. Because a significant real world advantage in specs remains a real world advantage no matter what, and at this points it's just a matter of if the dev is either too lazy to put in the effort to make a title demonstrably better on the platform that isn't lowest common denominator, or simply is being paid to not make any major changes.

 

[Dyno]

Maybe it's nothing, maybe it's a little something, maybe, who knows, but maybe...

Why would you want to even expose yourself to whatever this may be?

Not me.

 

[Faustek]

From his LinkedIn page
He works Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research at Microsoft, he worked as "Director Of Marketing at Microsoft" and as "Product Marketing Manager at Electronic Arts".
What would be foolish is to assume he doesn't know about advertising APIs.

And with that any credence I had put toward the man disappeared.

How about if it detects problems with your heart it informs your insurance company so they can adjust the rates...

Sure, DocWagon FTW...wonder if a SRT is enough or if I have to pay for HTR so they can fight of Microsofts agents trying to prove they are the better team.

Spoiler

It's a Shadowrun joke. You know roleplaying.

But no I rather have my watch/implants linked up to, you know, a REAL hospital in my area instead of Microsoft...as long as I could run some custom roms on it that is.

 

[painful fart]

Presumably anything like this would have to be opt in.

Although, I thought Penello said in another thread that nobody is working on Kinect-based data-mining for marketing purposes...

Any that he was aware of....... Judging from how clueless different MS People has been about the 180, the limited Europe release etc. his words weigh very light IMO.

Someone mentioned "Google envy", I totally agree. That is likely the primary reason behind hdmi input and mandatory Kinect, there is so much money in marketing. This speech totally explains the Xbone design, it could really revolutionize marketing.

 

[coolasj19]

From his LinkedIn page
He works Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research at Microsoft, he worked as "Director Of Marketing at Microsoft" and as "Product Marketing Manager at Electronic Arts".
What would be foolish is to assume he doesn't know about advertising APIs.

Fair enough. I'm not talking out of my range ever again.

How about if it detects problems with your heart it informs your insurance company so they can adjust the rates...

There's the right spin xD

 

[Razdek]

Does Kotaku ever go out and find their own stories or do they just wait for GAF to find the news and rewrite it like they did this one? That site is such a hack it's almost embarrassing.

 

[famousmortimer]

A new twist, kinda.


Steven Artlip is the guy who created and runs Platform Nation which is a website that houses a bunch of podcasts (mine being among them). It also publishes anything we put up on our sites.


So that story I wrote over a month ago was on there (and therefore also on PN's facebook). Not sure when this screenshot is from but Steve saw that this is getting mileage again on here and reddit and sent me this screenshot.


Christa Charter is "Trixie360." I don't know her, I never talked talked to her, I have no idea if this is sour grapes or what. But... here's what she said

Nothing earth shattering but, if true, speaks to the quality of people running the departments that decide what the kinect will and won't do...

 

[ironcreed]

The article in the OP categorically states that MS are actively working on using Kinect for ads.



They say it's early days and they're not ready to offer it to advertises, but they are working on it. As per the earlier interview, the APIs are in place, and the Xbone's dashboard has been designed from the ground up with advertising in mind.

It could be that Albert is unaware of this and has never met Yusuf Mehdi, corporate VP-marketing and strategy for Microsoft, or anyone in the Xbox LIVE advertising team. Or, you know, is doing PR spin and trying to have plausible deniability by adding the 'to my knowledge' caveat.

Yeah, I can see it being something that takes shape more and more a few years in after it is in millions of homes. In much the same way we started to see a shift in their direction in about the middle of this gen.

Hell, even the other day they made a statement saying that they changed some of their policies for now because we were not quite ready for the future. As if we are the ones who are wrong for not wanting to sacrifice our consumer rights and privacy.

 

[watership]

And with that any credence I had put toward the man disappeared.

Oh FFS. Get a grip on reality. He's in product planning and marketing. It's about working on a product, addressing the needs of a segment of the market, and getting it to market. It's about the actual service/object they're making. It's like you believe he's some snakeoil salesman.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Oh FFS. Get a grip on reality.

? What's wrong with what he said? A large portion of the users here feel the same way. You his cousin or something?

 

[elementalsin]

I do not want to see the type of person that is so affected by marketing that it "deeply impacts pretty much every major decision"!

It is also not the console recommending games that is the problem.
It is trying to advertise other types of products, using something like kinect to look into your room and tell advertisers what you are doing when the ad plays (to help with their goals of advertising products at you) and trying to use kinect to get people to interact with ads that is the problem!

Take a good long look in the mirror pal. If you honestly believe otherwise, you're deluding yourself.

And the problem you suggest still is entirely unproven and speculative at best. But hey, whatever can get the boys all riled up right?

Kinect has shown that it has huge, fundamental flaws that can not be overlooked!
Trying to map the movement of arms and legs to arbitrary actions in games will never work!
The lack of any form of tactile feedback also dooms it.

Hardcore gaming is about not wanting something bad just because people that can not give a real world reason why it is good want it to be the "next big thing"! (e.g You!)

I've never implied I want kinect to be "the next big thing" or "want it badly", I've implied I wish to give it a chance to go somewhere instead of just screaming 'give me more power and call it a day'. The original kinect failed in many many ways and now we're presented with a new version to give a go which if successful is infinitely more interesting than simply more processing power.

That being said... I honestly don't really get what you're trying to get it at here. Hardcore gaming is about not wanting things because people can't give reasons for them? So we need reasons to want something (makes sense here) but its not "hardcore gaming" unless we DON'T want it because we DON'T have a reason? I'm sorry, hardcore gaming is entirely about the 'next' thing regardless of what it is (from new engines, to new hardware/tech to new games). If it wasn't why wouldn't we still be playing on our SNES or Atari for that matter? Progression/innovation/some more buzzy words here are what drives hardcore gaming. Whether the 'next thing' succeeds or fails is an entirely different subject.