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Media Create Sales: Week 39, 2013 (Sep 23 - Sep 29)

Sandfox

Member
Are we seeing any third party efforts in general in japan? Excluding a few already established brands, nothing sells. MH has outsold the whole vita library. Best selling ps3 games barely reach .5m

We're just getting new entries in established franchises on the same devices(for the most part) and licensed games. We see new IPs occasionally but they don't really do too well most of the time.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
Are we seeing any third party efforts in general in japan? Excluding a few already established brands, nothing sells. MH has outsold the whole vita library. Best selling ps3 games barely reach .5m

Are we talking about 3rd parties in general or specifically about a platform? We know that Toukiden, P4G, and other games have done decently considering the install base in Japan for the Vita at the moment. Also, Bamco sold gangbusters with Tales of Xilia and One Piece Musou and both of those were PS3 exclusive.
 

Shahed

Member
sörine;85203265 said:
The point doesn't stand because most of those 3DS games are also ports too. An "original" game like DOA Dimensions was probably about as cheap as a port would be given it was all recycled content.
Then explain why Vita is getting these ports and 3DS isn't? PS3/Vita multiplats work and seem relatively simple to do. 3DS on the other hand doesn't appear to port as well off the top of my head with the exception of MH3U ane some other Capcom game that was untranslatable due to the way they handled the text or something. Look at something like Wonder Flick that's on everything but 3DS.

How easy Vita seems to be to port to (and 3DS's lack of) is my guess as to why Vita is getting more support (well at least of mid to low tier games) compared to 3DS. I'm not saying my reasoning is correct, just that it's the only plausible explanation I have given the dominance of the 3DS
 
Are we talking about 3rd parties in general or specifically about a platform? Also, Bamco sold gangbusters with Tales of Xilia and One Piece Musou and both of those were PS3 exclusive.
You may single out 2 games that sold decently, but compare it to the last gen were we had several of those in each genre; overall, the 3rd party efforts in Japan are really really bad. Maybe that's one of the reasons western games are selling better and better.

We know that Toukiden, P4G, and other games have done decently considering the install base in Japan for the Vita at the moment.
I really doubt P4G could sell, say 1m, if it was on 3DS or PS3; that's not an issue of installed. If anything, it could sell even sell on those systems cause it had to compete with other games.
 
List of fighting games for 3DS and PS Vita.

[3DS] Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition (Capcom) {2011.02.26} - 38.557 / 150.162
[3DS] Dead or Alive: Dimensions (Koei Tecmo) {2011.05.19} - 30.597 / 58.743
[3DS] Tekken 3D: Prime Edition (Namco Bandai Games) {2012.02.16} - 9.677 / 28.109
[3DS] Toriko: GourMega Battle! (Namco Bandai Games) {2013.07.04} - 12.709 / 24.498
[3DS] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift II (Arc System Works) {2011.03.31} - 5.550 / 15.632

[PSV] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend (Arc System Works) {2011.12.17} - ? / 23.160
[PSV] Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (Capcom) {2011.12.17} - ? / 20.041
[PSV] Dead or Alive 5 Plus (Koei Tecmo) {2013.03.20} - 13.994 / 13.994
[PSV] Street Fighter X Tekken (Capcom) {2012.10.25} - 4.813 / 9.073
[PSV] PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.01.31} - 5.210 / 5.210
[PSV] Reality Fighters (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2012.02.23 } - ? / 4.956

fighting games are awful on portable consoles.

fighting games will always be a home console experience.

you and yr friend sitting in front of the tv for a couple hours.. etc etc.

this data is no surprise.
 

sörine

Banned
Then explain why Vita is getting these ports and 3DS isn't? PS3/Vita multiplats work and seem relatively simple to do. 3DS on the other hand doesn't appear to port as well off the top of my head with the exception of MH3U ane some other Capcom game that was untranslatable due to the way they handled the text or something. Look at something like Wonder Flick that's on everything but 3DS.

How easy Vita seems to be to port to (and 3DS's lack of) is my guess as to why Vita is getting more support (well at least of mid to low tier games) compared to 3DS. I'm not saying my reasoning is correct, just that it's the only plausible explanation I have given the dominance of the 3DS
Explain what, Vita doesn't seem to be getting many fighter ports? Namco, Capcom and ASW seem like they're done with both 3DS and Vita for fighters. I doubt Tecmo bothers again either while Sega and SNK never bothered in the first place.

At this point anime licenses and Smash Bros are all that's left.
 

Oregano

Member
Are we talking about 3rd parties in general or specifically about a platform? We know that Toukiden, P4G, and other games have done decently considering the install base in Japan for the Vita at the moment. Also, Bamco sold gangbusters with Tales of Xilia and One Piece Musou and both of those were PS3 exclusive.

Those specific games have done well for themselves but they really shouldn't be the ceiling. That's the issue with Vita software sales. To put it into perspective Resident Evil Revelations(considered a somewhat disappointing result), Kingdom Hearts DDD(a big bomb) and Bravely Default(a low-to-midbudget overpeformer) have sold more than any Vita title.

Similarily it is what we saw with PS3; most individual games do okay for themselves but the ceiling is a lot lower.
 
List of fighting games for 3DS and PS Vita.

[3DS] Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition (Capcom) {2011.02.26} - 38.557 / 150.162
[3DS] Dead or Alive: Dimensions (Koei Tecmo) {2011.05.19} - 30.597 / 58.743
[3DS] Tekken 3D: Prime Edition (Namco Bandai Games) {2012.02.16} - 9.677 / 28.109
[3DS] Toriko: GourMega Battle! (Namco Bandai Games) {2013.07.04} - 12.709 / 24.498
[3DS] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift II (Arc System Works) {2011.03.31} - 5.550 / 15.632

[PSV] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend (Arc System Works) {2011.12.17} - ? / 23.160
[PSV] Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (Capcom) {2011.12.17} - ? / 20.041
[PSV] Dead or Alive 5 Plus (Koei Tecmo) {2013.03.20} - 13.994 / 13.994
[PSV] Street Fighter X Tekken (Capcom) {2012.10.25} - 4.813 / 9.073
[PSV] PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.01.31} - 5.210 / 5.210
[PSV] Reality Fighters (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2012.02.23 } - ? / 4.956
Mess at Tekken outselling all Vita fighting games. That game bombed horribly. :lol

Namco should try Soul Calibur on the 3DS. I think it would sell well.

Software sales have been fairly healthy for the most part. So where are the announcements?
Here:

Bravely Default
Attack Of The Titan
Theruhdsf Final Fantasy
Layton
Toriko
Youkai Watch
Magi
Kuroko

All these games were announced in the past few months and are exclusive to the 3DS, with potential to sell more than 100k each (Magi and Kuroko probably won't).
 
Layton is on iOS too.
i6vdlddjtpQRG.gif
 
Re: decline of fighting games in Japan:
Code:
27	PS3	Mobile Suit Gundam: Extreme Vs.	Namco Bandai Games	2011-12-01	5348	3,926	465,976

Including legs and the apparently untracked budget rerelease it's probably over 500k by now, and the expansion is releasing on PS3 next year.
 

L Thammy

Member
You know what would actually make an awesome tablet game, but we'll never get?

Trauma Center.

It would even work with the business model. You can sell different sets of surgeries, and for microtransactions the game is rather hard, so letting people buy past stages by buying extra star power works without messing up the way the series is balanced anyway.

Oh, we're talking about awesome ideas that probably won't happen?

Monster Rancher 3DS. Collects StreetPass data from other games and makes monsters out of them.

Re: decline of fighting games in Japan:
Code:
27	PS3	Mobile Suit Gundam: Extreme Vs.	Namco Bandai Games	2011-12-01	5348	3,926	465,976

Including legs and the apparently untracked budget rerelease it's probably over 500k by now, and the expansion is releasing on PS3 next year.

How many licensed (as in, anime game, video game crossover, etc) fighting games have sold better than all of the original fighting game series (Street Fighter, Tekken, BlazBlue, etc) this gen? I'm pretty sure Persona Arena did, Smash did, JoJo did, etc.
 
How many licensed (as in, anime game, video game crossover, etc) fighting games have sold better than all of the original fighting game series (Street Fighter, Tekken, BlazBlue, etc) this gen? I'm pretty sure Persona Arena did, Smash did, JoJo did, etc.
I was speaking more in terms of its status as the Most Popular Arcade Game in Japan. If you want to try to drive the narrative that fighting games are declining in Japan (which, framed as arcade games in general, they seem to be), it seems disingenious to exclude the most popular one.

Although EXVS isn't exactly a traditional fighting game, so we might just be in the midst of a red ocean/disruptive technology shift in the genre
 

Square2015

Member
About fighting games, I made this last month. It was a hard work, so it could have some mistakes.

Home console fighting games since late 95 in Japan:
retrojc02.png


I didn't include anime/manga/Smash Bros. games.
Nice job :)
Virtual Fighter 2 sold 1.7m (VF was huge for Sega back then)
You could include Street Fighter:
Hyper fighting 2.9m (92)
Turbo 1.9m (93)
Super 1.5m (94)
IIRC
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
1.) I wonder if DQ7's smartphone version is the 3DS game.
2.) Given 1-8 and 10 are on smartphones, I wonder if DQ9 is getting a smartphone remake to take advantage of the multiplayer aspects, and is thus not part of the porting announcements.

Dragon Quest XI is totally coming to mobile [too].

Yeah, I feel that's what this was hinting at: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=619136

Polygon said:
Executive producer Yuu Miyake also brought up the more practical, financial side of running a successful MMO. "One thing I can say," he said, "looking across the series from DQ8 onward, is that the business model of creating a retail package and releasing it exclusively on a single platform has become difficult to execute. Gamers' play styles and tastes are getting segmented, and we can't settle on a single platform. We're also in an era where trying to make back development costs on a title good enough to be part of the main story is getting more difficult with the traditional business model. We have to build a new business model, one that doesn't end with a retail package being purchased.
 
1.) I wonder if DQ7's smartphone version is the 3DS game.
2.) Given 1-8 and 10 are on smartphones, I wonder if DQ9 is getting a smartphone remake to take advantage of the multiplayer aspects, and is thus not part of the porting announcements.



Yeah, I feel that's what this was hinting at: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=619136

This is definitely the way for Square Enix to firmly establish the series on mobile phones.

I think it's less about the company trying to make a profit from these specific releases and more trying to build franchise momentum for a Dragon Quest XI smartphone presence.

A decision like this would be central to Square Enix's obsession with alternative business models so they can supplant perceived declines in traditional packaged retail.
 
1.) I wonder if DQ7's smartphone version is the 3DS game.
2.) Given 1-8 and 10 are on smartphones, I wonder if DQ9 is getting a smartphone remake to take advantage of the multiplayer aspects, and is thus not part of the porting announcements.

Yeah, I feel that's what this was hinting at: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=619136
Of all games, DQXI would be the safest game to release on 3DS and do big numbers, I really doubt they would exclude the 3DS, if we go by their words that exclusivity is not an option.

ok I missed the [too] on shinra's post.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
It makes more sense for SE to first sell their 4 million copies on 3DS and then port it later on. I know everyone and their mom is hyperventilating, but at the end these DQ titles are all ports of older backlog titles. They`ll be a great way to gauge the interest and the potential money income though - right now i expect DQ 11 to be developed for 3DS, but a companion Smartphone App or Spin-Off is expected at this point.

DQ games (especially ports of older games) have always been on mobiles, so i dont quite why its a big deal. They are doing it for FF and they would be stupid not to have their content as possible on the biggest system right now. This doesnt necessarily mean that every upcoming DQ title will be an F2P Smartphone title or being released for every system under the sun.
 

Spiegel

Member
Hahaha. Wow S-E, wow.

FF X/X-2 are next.

It makes more sense for SE to first sell their 4 million copies on 3DS and then port it later on. I know everyone and their mom is hyperventilating, but at the end these DQ titles are all ports of older backlog titles. They`ll be a great way to gauge the interest and the potential money income though - right now i expect DQ 11 to be developed for 3DS, but a companion Smartphone App or Spin-Off is expected at this point.

DQ games (especially ports of older games) have always been on mobiles, so i dont quite why its a big deal. They are doing it for FF and they would be stupid not to have their content as possible on the biggest system right now. This doesnt necessarily mean that every upcoming DQ title will be an F2P Smartphone title or being released for every system under the sun.

DQVIII going mobile is a big deal.
 

Yanikun

Banned
Do we not expect the mobile bubble to burst at some point? I have nothing against new platforms for people to play games on, but it doesn't seem sustainable for too many publishers for very long.
 
Do we not expect the mobile bubble to burst at some point? I have nothing against new platforms for people to play games on, but it doesn't seem sustainable for too many publishers for very long.

The mobile market is still growing rather quickly, i don't think it's some bubble about to burst.
 
DQVIII going mobile is a big deal.

Yep. They're going straight for the port, not even a remake first like they usually do. They're basically sending a strong message that DQ's future home is on smartphones.

Also, I expect the VII to be based on the 3DS version. And IV-VI to be based on the DS versions. What I'm now kinda curious about is the pricing.
 
Yep. They're going straight for the port, not even a remake first like they usually do. They're basically sending a strong message that DQ's future home is on smartphones.

Also, I expect the VII to be based on the 3DS version. And IV-VI to be based on the DS versions. What I'm now kinda curious about is the pricing.

Pricing should be similar to FF remakes on iOS/android so around 15 euros


And as far as mobile market - it might be growing but app discovery is becoming huge problem so i expect it to follow Zynga scenario where advertising to get new customer will end up more expensive than what he pays for game.
 

L~A

Member
So, is Pokemon going to beat MH4 first week sales?

Well, since Pokémon X and Y is now the most pre-ordered 3DS game in Japan, so I think it's pretty much guaranteed it'll beat MH4 sales for the first week.

Pokémon X and Pokémon Y pre-orders in Japan have exceeded 1.26 million, according to sales tracker Media Create (via: Famitsu). This makes the two the highest pre-ordered Nintendo 3DS games in Japan to date.
 

Kikujiro

Member
Do we not expect the mobile bubble to burst at some point? I have nothing against new platforms for people to play games on, but it doesn't seem sustainable for too many publishers for very long.

Developing for mobile is cheap, there is a completely new audience (much bigger than ever) and they can port/remake their old series. How is this not sustainable?
Example: Most of the people here hate the new remake of FFV for iOS (calling it an overpriced bad-looking port), now go to the iTunes store and look at the rating: 4.5/5 stars. Read some of the reviews and it will make things even more clear.

The mobile market won't burst, but it will stabilize at some point, and we will see what works and what doesn't work on the platform. EA stated that they are not chasing the mobile market because their IPs won't work there, on the other hand genres like JRPGs fit extremely well, so it should be not a surprise to see S-E investing on it.
 

Yanikun

Banned
What is your evidence for this conjecture?

I think it will start with small developers and then impact large publishers. This was on Gaf a few weeks ago:

Half of all mobile App developers make no profit at all, reports a new survey by the organisers of the App Developer Conference.

Those surveyed said piracy and discoverability were the primary challenges facing App developers.

“I speak with lots of mobile devs regularly and most are moving away or at least thinking of it, either to other platforms or out of the trade completely,” said Paul Johnson, co-founder of Rubicon, in an interview with GamesIndustry.biz.

“Having to give your game away for 69 cents a throw [after Apple's and Google's cut] and then competing with 1000 new apps each day is hardly a draw for anybody. We've reached a point now where even those slow on the uptake have realised the goldrush is over. It's actually been over for a few years.”

Games account for approximately 69 percent of all Apps, said the ADC. 26 percent of those surveyed said their software had been pirated, and a further 26 percent reported that in-App purchases had been obtained without the developer receiving payment.

“From the consumer angle, it's a golden age,” continued Johnson. “The amount of good quality games that can be bought for laughable prices is fantastic and there's a ton of money being spent on this platform as a result. The problem for developers is that each individual cut is tiny. This isn't even remotely sustainable and I don't know what the future is going to look like. If I was starting again now from a blank slate, without an existing fan base, I wouldn't touch mobile with a ten foot pole.”

App developers also said they were under pressure from PC and console veterans porting their powerhouse brands into the App space.

“The fact that more and more established PC and console veterans open new mobile gaming studios and more and more traditional publishers port their titles to iOS and Android, doesn't make it easier for one particular company or product to stick out,” Fishlabs CEO Michael Schade told GamesIndustry.biz.

However, Schade said interest from mainstream publishers wasn’t bad for App developers as “it clearly shows that the trend goes towards mobile, rather than away from it.”

[...]

Lim concluded that many developers would look to greener pastures in PC and console development. “We do think developers (especially indies) are considering going back to develop for the PC - and even game consoles. The cost of self-publishing on these platforms has dropped significantly, and console makers are also making their platforms more indie-friendly now.”

There are many more stories of devs making next to no money on iOS and Android unless they get featured. Those are obviously indie developers who have trouble getting their small games to stand out, which doesn't directly apply to Square and Dragon Quest. But I would argue that if we get a large decrease in interest and support from small devs who make their games available for very cheap, seeing them go back to PC and games consoles (more likely handhelds in Japan), then the loss of those quality cheap games will only leave the big expensive games and the crappy cash-ins on the market, and, at that point, why game on your phone if you have to pay $15 to enjoy something kinda good?
 

LOCK

Member
I get the feeling that this is a move initiated by SE to make quick money off the goodwill of the franchise. Let's be honest here, DQ is SE's cash cow compared to FF now. (In Japan)
 

Oregano

Member
I'm surprised they announced them all like this. I don't mind them supporting mobile as long as they keep supporting handhelds.

My main concern with the massive support for mobile, especially in SE's case, is that a lot of it has been based on porting games that have already made their budgets back. As they keep decreasing the amount of console and handheld games they make they will have less opportunities to do this and then what? Have we have had any indication that mobile can support a full, original development up to the standard people expect? FFIV The After Years was seen as an example of SE willing to put more effort in but it's still most reusing assets from a DS game and Tokita expressed concern about the expense of voice over which indicates to me that whilst they may be profiting from these ventures it is because budgets are very low.

Quoting myself from the other thread.
 
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