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[Azure Dream]

It'd be nice if they could put together a patch for the game, fixing some of the more mechanical issues (the camera, for example). Switching the game back to granting lives at 100 Rings would be trivial. The most complicated bit is accounting for if people lose just a few rings and then recollecting them. And since the game makes you drop all your rings on a hit, and only spawns a small amount of them to pick back up, that's not much of an issue.

But holding one's breath for a serious patch for Sonic games (barring "game breaking glitch" and "gets it ready for DLC") has been a fool's errand.

 

[Spinluck]

Shoutouts to technical limitations and fear of lack of user agency. That really isn't a solid defense. Because they worked hard to make "blast processing" look effective.

Or shoutouts to good game design.

The originals had well designed levels, and thought out momentum based mechanics. I'd argue that momentum is more important than the speed in those games (See Sonic 4, it is a perfect example of shit mechanics (half assed homing attack), poor uninspired levels, and lack of momentum in a 2D Sonic game.).

Unless you can prove to me that having uncontrollably fast gameplay that relies heavily on trail and error, and having loose control as a result.. is better than building a foundation on sound mechanics and making great levels. I stand by my statement.

I'm pretty sure there was a 2D Mario game where Mario was actually faster than the Sonic in Sonic 3 when the run button was held down. I forgot which one it was, but speed does not make or break a Sonic game. It will always be faster and more up tempo than your average platformer, it's whether or not they can make levels appropriate to the way Sonic plays in that game.

 

[qq more]

Who the hell came up with that?

The fact they're the 3 console Sonic games with Boost in it? Unleashed started it for the 3D Sonics. Colors and Generations takes Unleashed's Day stages and improve on it.

 

[RagnarokX]

I find it odd everyone wants Sega to not make Sonic go so fast, so they slow him down and people complain he's too slow. Reminds me of that Miyamoto and Zelda meme.

Different people, but nobody wants Sonic to not be fast. People want him to be fast but not so fast that you can't see hazards they put in your path and can't control. People want intelligent level design with some challenging platforming.

I don't think Sonic looks necessarily too slow in this game, but the level design in general doesn't seem to be very good. There are too many bottomless pits and super slow and boring bouncy cloud sections. It still retains problems like having too many springs and boost pads.

One thing I noticed from some of the gameplay I've watched is how jarringly awful the transitions between parts of levels are. Sonic will spring into the air, fade to black, fade in and he's standing in a completely different looking section of level. They couldn't transition better? Sonic Generations was great at transitions.

The levels look like they have too many ideas going on and not really doing any of them well.

This style could be a good direction going forward, but they need to dial back the half-baked ideas they cribbed from other games and work on level design. Focus on speed and platforming and dump the excess.

 

[RobbieNick]

Aw man. Bad reviews.

But there's good reviews too! More than there is bad.

Why does everyone always focus on the bad?

 

[MarkusRJR]

But there's good reviews too! More than there is bad.

Why does everyone always focus on the bad?

Because the higher scores are mostly from Nintendo fan sites and less reputable places like Famitsu.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

It's not just Mario. Its every single other big platformer that has released in the last few years. Donkey Kong, Rayman, and Mario games are all better than Sonic games even though Sonic Team has been making sonic games for ages.
And Sonic Team made the mistake of thinking that the only way to beat Mario is to be Mario. That's not true in the slightest. Rayman Legends may not be quite as good as the recent galaxy games. But it comes damn close. Same goes for Donkey Kong country returns. The way to get close to Mario and the others isn't to copy them, it's to make your own unique gameplay style that would only work for that character. Sonic is about speed and platforming. His games should revolve around those two things.

Which I think would be the conclusion you came to as well. your suggestions are exactly what would make sonic great again. It just seems Sonic Team can't seem to get that.

And yet the only thing Lost World does that's like Mario is the spherical worlds idea, and it's something that isn't anywhere close to as emphasised as in the Galaxy games. This concept is done resonably well too and totally works within Sonic's gameplay. In fact the stages that use the spherical world concept are by far the best. And I suppose the inclusion of a run button, which is something that certainly isn't unique to Mario. Again, this is not one of the flaws of the game and this inclusion is one of the best things the game does.

Seriously this myth about Lost World trying to be too much like Mario is complete bullshit. Most gameplay ideas in Lost World are usual Sonic fare. It takes concepts from things that have been used throughout the series history. The platforming is typical Sonic fare, just with a bit of a difficulty bump. The speed is there, just less emphasised compared to Unleashed/Generations. Criticise the game for legit reasons, and believe me there are plenty of them. But don't talk complete bullshit about it being too much like Mario when it plays almost nothing like it.

 

[Azure Dream]

One thing I noticed from some of the gameplay I've watched is how jarringly awful the transitions between parts of levels are. Sonic will spring into the air, fade to black, fade in and he's standing in a completely different looking section of level. They couldn't transition better? Sonic Generations was great at transitions.

It is really disappointing that they got the 2D/3D natural transitioning down in Colors and Generations so well, and now it's all segmented apart with springs, cannons, and fades to black.

 

[Zafir]

It's not just Mario. Its every single other big platformer that has released in the last few years. Donkey Kong, Rayman, and Mario games are on a completely different level quality wise compared to Sonic games even though Sonic Team has been making sonic games for ages.

And Sonic Team made the mistake of thinking that the only way to beat or compete with Mario is to be Mario. That's not true in the slightest. Rayman Legends may not be quite as good as the recent galaxy games. But it comes damn close. Same goes for Donkey Kong country returns. And they both got there without copying Mario. The way to get close to Mario and the others isn't to copy them, it's to make your own unique gameplay style that would only work for that character. Sonic is about speed and platforming. His games should revolve around those two things.

Which I think would be the conclusion you came to as well. your suggestions are exactly what would make sonic great again. Sonic Team can't seem to get that even though it's what people have been asking for since 2008 when Unleashed came out.

I dunno, there's a good number of people who don't want Sonic games like Unleashed. (Note I'm not one of them, I did enjoy the day time levels in it, just saying). Complaining about it being too fast and/or too easy.

Unfortunately, regardless of what they do, some section of the fan base won't be pleased.

Difference with Mario is, Nintendo already found their mechanics early, and fans are used to them. Nintendo never majorly change them, and the fans stay happy. Unless you happen to get bored of the same stuff(My situation with the Mario series).

 

[Into]

But there's good reviews too! More than there is bad.

Why does everyone always focus on the bad?

Because the review scale in gaming is usually 7-10, so when a game gets a average at around 60, its pretty bad news and cause for concern.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Because the review scale in gaming is usually 7-10, so when a game gets a average at around 60, its pretty bad news and cause for concern.

No, it's because those good scores are coming from sources people either aren't familiar with or don't care about. I'd say with both Eurogamer and Edge panning it, this is fair.

There are people here who were somehow able to have fun with Shadow, I'm sure this game will find an audience. That doesn't make it a good game however, almost any game will have some defenders. Even Sonic 2006 had a handful of positive reviews..... or at least Dave Halverson.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

And yet the only thing Lost World does that's like Mario is the spherical worlds idea, and it's something that isn't anywhere close to as emphasised as in the Galaxy games.

Seriously this myth about Lost World trying to be too much like Mario is complete bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TdjSphXykJ0#t=710

Yeah....bullshit.

 

[Zafir]

No, it's because those good scores are coming from sources people either aren't familiar with or don't care about. I'd say with both Eurogamer and Edge panning it, this is fair.

There are people here who were somehow able to have fun with Shadow, I'm sure this game will find an audience. That doesn't make it a good game however, almost any game will have some defenders. Even Sonic 2006 had a handful of positive reviews..... or at least Dave Halverson.

It's hardly as bad as Sonic 2006 though.

Such a contrast in reviews suggest a company tried something different that not everyone will like, rather than the quality being low.

Other most recent example being Beyond Two Souls. It's far from a bad game like half of the reviews would have you believe if the idea appeals to you, it's just not something that everyone will enjoy. Especially if you didn't care for QD's previous games.

 

[NotLiquid]

No, it's because those good scores are coming from sources people either aren't familiar with or don't care about. I'd say with both Eurogamer and Edge panning it, this is fair.

There are people here who were somehow able to have fun with Shadow, I'm sure this game will find an audience. That doesn't make it a good game however, almost any game will have some defenders. Even Sonic 2006 had a handful of positive reviews..... or at least Dave Halverson.

Comparing it with 06 or Shadow is really silly. With the majority of reviews leaning towards positivity more than negativity, including sources "people care about" such as Destructoid, GameTrailers and CVG, the game is generally getting an "average" reception. It's not necessarily a good game but it's not a bad one either. It's a game that's shown promise but has had quite a few missteps along the way.

And that's completely fine. They tried, it didn't work out too well. Sonic Team will be back next time with another attempt; hopefully they'll be able to adapt as well as they managed through the course of their last three games.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Jim Sterling's review is really one of the best one's out there.



And this is from the man who hated Colors.

Seems like the lower scores tend to be from reviewers who just couldn't grasp the new controls and didn't like the difficulty while the higher score reviewers got the hang of it and admired the game's level designs.

He also loved Sonic 4: Episode One though.

Not that I necessarily disagree with his review here; he's gotten far more level headed about how he approaches reviews and his own Jimquisition show in the past couple years than when I first found out about him.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Yeah....bullshit.

And that level is one of the best of the game and done really, really well. Plus I already said it uses the spherical worlds concept so I'm really not sure what you're getting at by pointing out that kind of level. Also I'm struggling to recall a level in Mario Galaxy that used that juice gimmick. Plus it's one goddamn level.

 

[SonyToo!™]

Wow the game has some mixed reviews, although much of it is the same old reasons most reviewers bash original games.

* It too similar / different from other games
* Controls Suck
* It's too hard
* It's a bit rough around the edges, leading to the odd frustrating death

Given I have alot of patience for games especially those that dare to try new gameplay, I'll probably really enjoy it.

 

[SpikedGunner]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume most people who don't like the boost games have played the boost games. Their game design is really not for everybody, and neither is this game. The Sonic franchise has spun off in so many different directions, and there are so many different people who beat their chests, scream really loud, and stomp out anybody who doesn't go with "their" REAL Sonic opinion. "Sonics should be like the classics, Sonic should be like the boost games, Sonic should have a more serious story like 2006, Sonic should be light-hearted, why is it only Sonic where are the other guys, eww gross Sonic's shitty friends Sonic only pls, he should be this he should be that".

Sega doesn't really help either. When it looks like they were refining things with Generations from Unleashed, they throw that all out the window for something new. Something that's bound to connect with some fans and piss off others. They just can't stay consistent with this shit.

Yea, I'm in agreement, Sonic Team really needs to at least iron out their gameplay/design issues...and also stop using Dimps.

 

[daman824]

And yet the only thing Lost World does that's like Mario is the spherical worlds idea, and it's something that isn't anywhere close to as emphasised as in the Galaxy games. This concept is done resonably well too and totally works within Sonic's gameplay. In fact the stages that use the spherical world concept are by far the best. And I suppose the inclusion of a run button, which is something that certainly isn't unique to Mario. Again, this is not one of the flaws of the game and this inclusion is one of the best things the game does.

Seriously this myth about Lost World trying to be too much like Mario is complete bullshit. Most gameplay ideas in Lost World are usual Sonic fare. It takes concepts from things that have been used throughout the series history. The platforming is typical Sonic fare, just with a bit of a difficulty bump. The speed is there, just less emphasised compared to Unleashed/Generations. Criticize the game for legit reasons, and believe me there are plenty of them. But don't talk complete bullshit about it being too much like Mario when it plays almost nothing like it.

Er my bad. I'm not trying to offend, but Sonic Team obviously took inspiration from recent Mario games. Did they add a little bit of "Sonic" in there? Yeah. But it wasn't enough.

When the momentum is completely destroyed and I'm stuck on a planet and have to guide a fruit into a grinder, collect butterflies, or destroy a certain boss badnik before moving on (among other things), I can only wonder what Sonic Team was thinking. Maybe they came up with ideas that are completely counter intuitive to the idea of momentum on their own. But when a Sonic becomes less momentum based and more "a lot of different gameplay styles/gimmicks packed into one game", it definitely isn't doing itself any favors. Mainly because that's a type of game that Sonic Team is not good at making.

They found what they were good at, and instead of becoming great at it, they dropped it.

 

[The Boat]

Wow the game has some mixed reviews, although much of it is the same old reasons most reviewers bash original games.

* It too similar / different from other games
* Controls Suck
* It's too hard
* It's a bit rough around the edges, leading to the odd frustrating death

Given I have alot of patience for games especially those that dare to try new gameplay, I'll probably really enjoy it.

The game isn't exactly hugely original. It's a new step in the franchise, but let's not blow things out of proportion. The game does nothing new that can justify or offset its problems. Its problems are in the execution of what is essential and should be a priority in a platformer: controls, physics snd level design, although I think level design could normally get a pass if the controls were better.

It's not the good kind of hard, it's hard because the game is uncooperative, the controls are wonky and even unpredictable at times (especially the lock-on), the mechanics aren't well presented and there are loads of illogical and unintuitive moments. That's what can make you lose over and over.

 

[Arc Christelle]

i could totally see that though; the daytime levels were some of the best 3D sonic stages id played, some feeling like a tighter SA experience, which i really dug. my problem was the RPG ish elements around that - hubtown, etc - and even werehog which didn't bother me but all of it felt like stuff getting in between me & those levels. wish i couldve just had them all unlocked to play through.

Or shoutouts to good game design.

The originals had well designed levels, and thought out momentum based mechanics. I'd argue that momentum is more important than the speed in those games (See Sonic 4, it is a perfect example of shit mechanics (half assed homing attack), poor uninspired levels, and lack of momentum in a 2D Sonic game.).

Unless you can prove to me that having uncontrollably fast gameplay that relies heavily on trail and error, and having loose control as a result.. is better than building a foundation on sound mechanics and making great levels. I stand by my statement.

I'm pretty sure there was a 2D Mario game where Mario was actually faster than the Sonic in Sonic 3 when the run button was held down. I forgot which one it was, but speed does not make or break a Sonic game. It will always be faster and more up tempo than your average platformer, it's whether or not they can make levels appropriate to the way Sonic plays in that game.

I'm pretty sure the originals are much more acceptable due to the fact that they are the originals and established an idea of Sonic gameplay for the Sega Genesis at the time. There is literally nothing that it could be compared to. and even still they had the setups like boost pads or springs that lead into spikes, don't for get Sonic 1's infamous "Needledeath" [land on a set of spikes, get hit bounce back into death.] And whatever the hell was going on in Marble Zone. The stages still relied on speed on a lot of areas that featured curves and halve pipes, you can't have momentum with out speed, you just can't. Don't even get me started on whatever the fuck Sonic CD was, and there are still clowns acting like it's the best Sonic game out. No one ever walked in a Sonic game, and I'm sure no one played it at slow pace.

Also I like how you down the controls in the Boost Trilogy which were perfectly functional and provided enough control along with a skill curve. Those games required mastering controlling Sonic along with mastery of the stage like most Sonic games. Also gaming in general is trial and error. Who the fuck started the trend on this website like it was erroneous game design? The games aren't totally accessible but it damn sure as hell didn't work against it.

If you payed attention to Unleashed, it was filled with interesting control challenges that urged the player to master Sonic's speed, (both acceleration and deceleration, Empire City is my favorite example of this. There is a curve there that kills you if you don't slow down.)

Also if people can actually control the speed and play it fluently, then why is it uncontrollable?

It seems like you took, "Too fast for me", and thought it must be too fast for everyone. They throw plenty of unique obstacles at you that you can actually see coming, not only that, but later on they even went out the way to give you a freaking glowing read sign to know where the bottomless pits lie.

You ever think that perhaps, you're just too slow?

How about you show something to prove that the boost trilogy just weren't functional games.

If speed isn't necessary why even bother calling him Sonic the Hedgehog? What the hell does he even represent anymore? Why not just start a new IP?

Comparing it with 06 or Shadow is really silly. With the majority of reviews leaning towards positivity more than negativity, including sources "people care about" such as Destructoid, GameTrailers and CVG, the game is generally getting an "average" reception. It's not necessarily a good game but it's not a bad one either. It's a game that's shown promise but has had quite a few missteps along the way.

And that's completely fine. They tried, it didn't work out too well. Sonic Team will be back next time with another attempt; hopefully they'll be able to adapt as well as they managed through the course of their last three games.

That thought is scary as hell. One thing Sonic Team lacks is consistency.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

You ever think that perhaps, you're just too slow?

With one question, you just shut down half of of this thread.

Masterful.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Godammit.

Nothing to see here. lol

 

[DICKS AHOY]

With one question, you just shut down half of of this thread.

Masterful.

... How exactly? Unleashed has incredibly poor controls and it's highlighted just by how much smoother and easier the Unleashed levels are to play in that one Generations mod. Almost identical level design, speed and move-set, but far more responsive controls and 60fps made a world of difference.

There absolutely is an issue of a lack of proper consideration back in Unleashed when it comes to how Sonic controls in regards to the level design. Even basic stuff like the homing attack and boost being mapped to the same button was ass-backwards and strikes me more as Sonic Team being Sonic Team and not some sort of intentional design decision.

I can understand liking them for the good game that lies underneath, but you're delusional if you think it's solely on the player and not the game's own fault as to why why it isn't that well liked.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Comparing it with 06 or Shadow is really silly. With the majority of reviews leaning towards positivity more than negativity, including sources "people care about" such as Destructoid, GameTrailers and CVG, the game is generally getting an "average" reception. It's not necessarily a good game but it's not a bad one either. It's a game that's shown promise but has had quite a few missteps along the way.

And that's completely fine. They tried, it didn't work out too well. Sonic Team will be back next time with another attempt; hopefully they'll be able to adapt as well as they managed through the course of their last three games.

Again, Shadow had some decent reviews thrown in too, some of them from credible sources at that.

http://www.gamerankings.com/gamecube/926672-shadow-the-hedgehog/articles.html?sort=5

I'd say the comparison is fair in this case, the review scores and spread are similar, it's just that the OP is including reviews you wouldn't normally see included in an aggregate score along with the fact that some of the sources of positive reviews for Shadow no longer exist,

 

[AniHawk]

yeah i'm just glad that the days of sonic unleashed are behind us. it seems that reviewers are as well, given the better reception of lost worlds, generations, and colors.

 

[NotLiquid]

You ever think that perhaps, you're just too slow?

You're creating an impasse with this. I can take this same line of reasoning and twist it against people by claiming they just lack precision to handle Lost World's controls. That wouldn't make it any less disingenuous.

And, for the record, I seriously would like to find someone who can prove that they didn't fuck up during any QTE segments or precision moments in Unleashed's later stages without memorizing it through a number of first runs. This person clearly deserves a medal because Crimson Carnival is one of the worst, most bullshit things put into a Sonic game, period.

 

[AniHawk]

Again, Shadow had some decent reviews thrown in too, some of them from credible sources at that.

http://www.gamerankings.com/gamecube/926672-shadow-the-hedgehog/articles.html?sort=5

I'd say the comparison is fair in this case, the review scores and spread are similar, it's just that the OP is including reviews you wouldn't normally see included in an aggregate score along with the fact that some of the sources of positive reviews for Shadow no longer exist,

yikes. the spread for shadow starts lower and ends lower. the reception so far has been more similar to secret rings. same spread with 4 and 9 being the outliers scores generally in the 5-8 range.

 

[Guess Who]

Actual gifs of video reviews of this game (courtesy Sonic Retro user GT Koopa):

Just sayin'.

 

[qq more]

Actual gifs of video reviews of this game (courtesy Sonic Retro user GT Koopa):

Just sayin'.

First one jumps too soon and does a terrible job saving himself.

Second one just... runs into the wall when he had way more than enough time to react.

And the third one... why the heck did he ran back to a collapsing platform?

I

I just don't get it.

 

[Effect]

Hmm dying on purpose is one way to make the game look bad. That's what I'm seeing in those images. Purposefully turning around when it's clear the ground is falling behind you. Jumping so far away from the edge. Running into the wall seemingly on purpose.

this one's great. why go back for the rings?

Why are they jumping so damn much as well.

 

[AniHawk]

Just sayin'.

this one's great. why go back for the rings?

 

[Sophia]

I don't get the lives complaint in EDGE's review. At least one level hands out lives like candy from what I saw. The player had 11, and could have easily got five more because they took an optional path. :\

This does not look like a game that is stingy for lives:

 

[Spinluck]

I'm pretty sure the originals are much more acceptable due to the fact that they are the originals and established an idea of Sonic gameplay for the Sega Genesis at the time. There is literally nothing that it could be compared to. and even still they had the setups like boost pads or springs that lead into spikes, don't for get Sonic 1's infamous "Needledeath" [land on a set of spikes, get hit bounce back into death.] And whatever the hell was going on in Marble Zone. The stages still relied on speed on a lot of areas that featured curves and halve pipes, you can't have momentum with out speed, you just can't. Don't even get me started on whatever the fuck Sonic CD was, and there are still clowns acting like it's the best Sonic game out. No one ever walked in a Sonic game, and I'm sure no one played it at slow pace.

There are parts in the classics that made slow your pace. Unless of course, you were a skilled player or a very skilled speed runner who was able to maneuver quickly through those sections of the game. But skilled players make any platformer look like a breeze, so..

Also I like how you down the controls in the Boost Trilogy which were perfectly functional and provided enough control along with a skill curve. Those games required mastering controlling Sonic along with mastery of the stage like most Sonic games. Also gaming in general is trial and error. Who the fuck started the trend on this website like it was erroneous game design? The games aren't totally accessible but it damn sure as hell didn't work against it.

I didn't down them, just noted that there were flawed in some ways. I enjoyed those games, and they weren't "perfectly functional". Yes gaming is trial and error, but relying on trail and error like a crutch is not good design. There is a difference between a death being your fault, or a result of poor design. The controls in Unleashed were not very tight or refined, it was fun (for me). But you will hear this complaint among the people who really dislike the boost gameplay. See JC's post on how it's a love or hate thing. Of course, Colors and Generations improved these controls, but problems still existed.

If you payed attention to Unleashed, it was filled with interesting control challenges that urged the player to master Sonic's speed, (both acceleration and deceleration, Empire City is my favorite example of this. There is a curve there that kills you if you don't slow down.)

I got a Platinum trophy in Unleashed, and that required you to know the game up and down. I usually wouldn't mention this, but I remember playing that game nonstop for that reason. I remember the most frustrating parts of that game being the way it controlled at times and the jump isn't as tight and responsive as it should've been and that is among the most important things in a platformer. Judging some jumps in Unleashed was a fucking nightmare. The camera was also a bitch sometimes, and the game in general wasn't accessible to casual players.

Also if people can actually control the speed and play it fluently, then why is it uncontrollable?

Not everyone would say those games controlled and played fluently. There are people in this very thread that have said they controlled like shit. Like I said, love or hate.

It seems like you took, "Too fast for me", and thought it must be too fast for everyone. They throw plenty of unique obstacles at you that you can actually see coming, not only that, but later on they even went out the way to give you a freaking glowing read sign to know where the bottomless pits lie. You ever think that perhaps, you're just too slow?

Yea, that must be it.

How about you show something to prove that the boost trilogy just weren't functional games.

They were functional alright, MALFUNCTIONAL. I'm kidding. They are functional games, but pretty flawed and uninviting compared to other games in the genre.

If speed isn't necessary why even bother calling him Sonic the Hedgehog? What the hell does he even represent anymore? Why not just start a new IP?

Sonic is a platformer first and foremost. He isn't even that slow in SLW. The fact that people worry more about this, than the fidelity of the games says a lot on where some fans stand in this franchise.

This is a tired argument, and it's been had too many times. Sonic does not need to be blazing fast for his games to be good, and its been proven already. Say what you want about tech limitations, but the originals proved this a long time ago.

That's all.

 

[The Boat]

Actual gifs of video reviews of this game (courtesy Sonic Retro user GT Koopa):

Just sayin'.

It's completely different watching these GIFs (that appear slowed down, but maybe that's me) and playing. Some parts play really fast and happen in quick succession of each other, boosts can boost you to somewhere you're not expecting and while sometimes if you keep pressing the direction you were before he keeps running, others he veers off in a new direction. Not only that, the controls can be ridiculously sensitive and send you off into infinity a the slightest nudge. This means that even moving the fucking stick can be a huge risk at times and the game punishes you for taking risks.

The gif where he slams into the wall for example, changing direction while on those cilinders is pretty fucking shitty, you either lose a lot of speed or can't control it well and in no other place in the game do you die by running into the wall. This is something the game does a lot: throw things at you that behave completely different from everything like it up to that point.
EDIT: He sucked in the first and last one though lol If that section is the one I think, it's fucking atrocious either way.

 

[Dark Schala]

First one jumps too soon and does a terrible job saving himself.

Second one just... runs into the wall when he had way more than enough time to react.

And the third one... why the heck did he ran back to a collapsing platform?

He went back for the rings and I don't really know why since it's probably best to go for the goal at this point given the level structure/falling platform. But alas, probably didn't realize that getting 100 rings doesn't give you an extra life. I'm going to guess it's a first playthrough?

Second one makes me laugh because Sonic actually has an animation for running into a wall, lol.

 

[Arc Christelle]

You're creating an impasse with this. I can take this same line of reasoning and twist it against people by claiming they just lack precision to handle Lost World's controls. That wouldn't make it any less disingenuous.

And, for the record, I seriously would like to find someone who can prove that they didn't fuck up during any QTE segments or precision moments in Unleashed's later stages without memorizing it through a number of first runs. This person clearly deserves a medal because Crimson Carnival is one of the worst, most bullshit things put into a Sonic game, period.

That could apply if I dissed Lost Worlds. (I still plan to purchase and play to judge for myself)
What I'm saying is, there is nothing wrong with trial in error. Hell I even restart the entire stage if I lose momentum or speed.

... How exactly? Unleashed has incredibly poor controls and it's highlighted just by how much smoother and easier the Unleashed levels are to play in that one Generations mod. Almost identical level design, speed and move-set, but far more responsive controls and 60fps made a world of difference.

There absolutely is an issue of a lack of proper consideration back in Unleashed when it comes to how Sonic controls in regards to the level design. Even basic stuff like the homing attack and boost being mapped to the same button was ass-backwards and strikes me more as Sonic Team being Sonic Team and not some sort of intentional design decision.

I can understand liking them for the good game that lies underneath, but you're delusional if you think it's solely on the player and not the game's own fault as to why why it isn't that well liked.

Unleashed focused more on controlling Sonic, than navigating throughout the stage.

Generations is the opposite. When you pick up on that, I think you can actually appreciate it more.

 

[NotLiquid]

Hmm dying on purpose is one way to make the game look bad. That's what I'm seeing in those images. Purposefully turning around when it's clear the ground is falling behind you. Jumping so far away from the edge. Running into the wall seemingly on purpose.

Something similar happened in the IGN or GameSpot video review of Unleashed I believe, where the reviewer purposefully killed himself in order to prove a point but failed the first few attempts.

This stuff is probably a common when they want to get footage resembling their initial woes but in Sonic games it always ends up looking terribly obvious when they have to fake being terrible at games. Those gifs are laughable.

The gif where he slams into the wall for example, changing direction while on those cilinders is pretty fucking shitty, you either lose a lot of speed or can't control it well and in no other place in the game do you die by running into the wall. This is something the game does a lot: throw things at you that behave completely different from everything like it up to that point.

I've died a few times at that stage and all but one those attempts were due to missing jumps. That gif showing the reviewer weaving back and forth looks absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Actual gifs of video reviews of this game (courtesy Sonic Retro user GT Koopa):

Just sayin'.

Whoever was playing this was either dying on purpose or is brain dead or something.

 

[Teknoman]

loling so hard internally that IGN thinks Sonic 4 was a success.

Also im glad Lost World is stingy with lives. Sick of recent Sonic games and amassing lives.

 

[NotLiquid]

That could apply if I dissed Lost Worlds. (I still plan to purchase and play to judge for myself)
What I'm saying is, there is nothing wrong with trial in error. Hell I even restart the entire stage if I lose momentum or speed.

I'm not so much implying you're "dissing" Lost World as much as I'm saying it's an issue people are having with the game and could be excused by the same line of reasoning you used. I've already gotten used to the controls and it plays like butter to me, but I can see why people would have trouble with it and I'm not going to assume those people are merely terrible because they can't come to terms with some questionable design.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

That could apply if I dissed Lost Worlds. (I still plan to purchase and play to judge for myself)
What I'm saying is, there is nothing wrong with trial in error. Hell I even restart the entire stage if I lose momentum or speed.




Unleashed focused more on controlling Sonic, than navigating throughout the stage.

Generations is the opposite. When you pick up on that, I think you can actually appreciate it more.

You kind of ignored the part where's a fan mod where you can play Unleashed's daytime levels in Generations and it plays a million times better. Shouldn't that imply there's a big problem with how Unleashed controls if porting the levels over to a different game improves them so drastically?

Also I'd argue the opposite in terms of controlling Sonic; if he's more slippery in Unleashed (which he absolutely is, I don't even feel this is a subjectivity thing) than Generations, than I can't see how it's more about controlling Sonic. Especially when the former constantly resorted to being stuck straight hallways with side-stepping sessions for periods at a time, QTE's jumps and other constant pre-scripted moments like grinding down the clock tower that restrict your control far more than Generations usually does.

 

[The Boat]

Something similar happened in the IGN or GameSpot video review of Unleashed I believe, where the reviewer purposefully killed himself in order to prove a point but failed the first few attempts.

This stuff is probably a common when they want to get footage resembling their initial woes but in Sonic games it always ends up looking terribly obvious when they have to fake being terrible at games. Those gifs are laughable.



I've died a few times at that stage and all but one those attempts were due to missing jumps. That gif showing the reviewer weaving back and forth looks absolutely ridiculous.

Yeah, like I said in my edit, he sucked.
I'm thinking about that stage where you have those numbered thingies you have to catch in order and loads of boosts. It's really hard to figure out where the boosts lead you and then there's the problem I mentioned with the direction you're pressing on the stick. After that, it's hard to control sonic when he's boosting, so it's reaaaaally easy to fall off. I just said fuck it, jumped over the boosts and ignored the countdown thing. I'm not sure it's the same stage though.
EDIT: Yeah it's different. I hate viewing gifs on mobile.

 

[rjc571]

Actual gifs of video reviews of this game (courtesy Sonic Retro user GT Koopa):

Just sayin'.

Maybe this is a byproduct of 3D platformers effectively dying out... on the rare occasion when one does come out, reviewers who probably haven't played one in years (if not ever) become completely flummoxed by the concept of navigating a character through an obstacle course in 3D space and end up making fools out of themselves.

 

[Spinluck]

It's completely different watching these GIFs (that appear slowed down, but maybe that's me) and playing. Some parts play really fast and happen in quick succession of each other, boosts can boost you to somewhere you're not expecting and while sometimes if you keep pressing the direction you were before he keeps running, others he veers off in a new direction. Not only that, the controls can be ridiculously sensitive and send you off into infinity a the slightest nudge. This means that even moving the fucking stick can be a huge risk at times and the game punishes you for taking risks.

The gif where he slams into the wall for example, changing direction while on those cilinders is pretty fucking shitty, you either lose a lot of speed or can't control it well and in no other place in the game do you die by running into the wall. This is something the game does a lot: throw things at you that behave completely different from everything like it up to that point.
EDIT: He sucked in the first and last one though lol If that section is the one I think, it's fucking atrocious either way.

Hey Boat, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the boost games. I know you're down on this game, but I think it'd be interesting to hear.

 

[Mr. West]

Maybe this is a byproduct of 3D platformers effectively dying out... on the rare occasion when one does come out, reviewers who probably haven't played one in years (if not ever) become completely flummoxed by the concept of navigating a character through an obstacle course in 3D space and end up making fools out of themselves.

The game looks pretty bad regardless.

 

[NotLiquid]

Yeah, like I said in my edit, he sucked.
I'm thinking about that stage where you have those numbered thingies you have to catch in order and loads of boosts. It's really hard to figure out where the boosts lead you and then there's the problem I mentioned with the direction you're pressing on the stick. After that, it's hard to control sonic when he's boosting, so it's reaaaaally easy to fall off. I just said fuck it, jumped over the boosts and ignored the countdown thing. I'm not sure it's the same stage though.

Ah. That stage doesn't really ring a bell so I assume I haven't gotten to it yet.

 

[nephilimdj]

Maybe this is a byproduct of 3D platformers effectively dying out... on the rare occasion when one does come out, reviewers who probably haven't played one in years (if not ever) become completely flummoxed by the concept of navigating a character through an obstacle course in 3D space and end up making fools out of themselves.

What? Even generations, the late 3d levels had cheap deaths due to poor design.
Polish was missing from what was on the earlier ones.

 

[hodgy100]

loling so hard internally that IGN thinks Sonic 4 was a success.

Also im glad Lost World is stingy with lives. Sick of recent Sonic games and amassing lives.

i dont get the complaint about the game being stingy with lives. In previous games and mario games lives are rendered useless by they number of ways there are to gain more. and even if you oose them all in sonic, its not like you are set back that far, its just to the beginning of the level.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Actual gifs of video reviews of this game (courtesy Sonic Retro user GT Koopa):

Just sayin'.

1. Too Slow

2. Can't hold thumb still.

3. Oh god.

There are parts in the classics that made slow your pace. Unless of course, you were a skilled player or a very skilled speed runner who was able to maneuver quickly through those sections of the game. But skilled players make any platformer look like a breeze, so..

This is a tired argument, and it's been had too many times. Sonic does not need to be blazing fast for his games to be good, and its been proven already. Say what you want about tech limitations, but the originals proved this a long time ago.

That's all.

I agree that skilled players actually do make damn near any game look good. I've seen actual speed runs of 06 that made me go wtf. But all that shit aside, I think we've come to some mutual understanding, despite that we disagree, so that's cool.

I mean to you the originals held it up but for me, it's just classics. Like I said before I don't mind replaying them, but I think we've made enough progress to actually build a solid game without it having to be S2/S3&K.

I'm over that, and to ever see the series backtrack instead of actually move forward and improve, would be the thing that makes me quit playing these games. And we all know what Sonic is about overall, he's a fast character. To you the classics will always be the best, but to me, The Boost Trilogy successfully holds up just as well.

Also I'm pretty sure no one ever cleared any of the classics without dying in their first go. For a game like Sonic that could be focused on speed, perhaps Trial and Error is natural.

But atleast you can admit that you're too slow.

Spoiler

I'm just messin with ya.