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An incorherant rant about microtransactions on full priced titles. [Forza 5]

So, Forza 5's reviews are out, and the Europeans are (generally speaking) not impressed. Take, for example, Eurogamer's review.
All that's left is the grind, and it's not a particularly pleasant one. Unlike previous outings, cars don't unlock upon levelling up. Everything must be bought in Forza Motorsport 5, and all transactions take place in a slightly misshapen economy. A series will, on average, net the player in excess of 110,000 credits for just under an hour's effort - but with some of the premium racecars costing well over a million, it's a somewhat brutal grind. Good job, then, that there are tokens purchasable on the Xbox One's marketplace for you to attain the car you're after, or to temporarily boost the rate at which you gain XP. When you've already paid £429.99 for a new console, £44.99 for the game and maybe even £349.99 for the only steering wheel that the game supports at launch, such tricks appear a little unsavoury, and in Forza 5, mechanics greedily smuggled from free-to-play games trample over the elegant RPG elements the series once embraced so effectively.

Yes, it appears that Forza 5 has fallen into the classical microtransactions trap, by increasing the grind alongside making it possible to buy using real case large amounts of in-game credits. Similar complaints were made about GTA Online, which conveniently enough also had a fake-cash-for-real-cash scheme. GT6 will also have a fake-cash-for-real-cash shop, so the jury's out on whether they will follow Forza into increasing grind to encourage people buying credits (not that GT wasn't grindy enough :v )

This is not exactly a new concept, however: EA's been doing this for donkey's years now with the Ultimate Team being the poster buy of microtransactions in full priced games. For the uninitiated, it's a fairly simple concept: buy "packs" of players in a similar manner to trading cards, make a team out of your players and then play online against other players' teams. Packs are tiered, with the best players more common in the most expensive packs. Oh, and you can buy packs for cash. You can probably see the problem here.

EA has also been rolling out microtransactions to their other games, from pay for resources in SSX and Dead Space 3 (although thankfully neither was particularly necessary in my experience) to buying packs of items for Mass Effect 3's multiplayer, to outright unlocking everything in Battlefield 3. Other companies have gotten in on the act too, with Assassin's Creed 3's multiplayer and Arkham Origins' multiplayer also featuring pay-to-skip-grind options.

This appears to have become the replacement to the online pass: leaving the option to pay to skip grind, and in some cases (cough Forza 5 cough) increasing said grind noticeably. This is bad for consumers for obvious reasons, including endangering multiplayer balance (not that there was much to begin with for most multiplayer progression systems :v ) to making games worse as a direct result (aforementioned Forza 5 example). There's also the possibility of the "whales" phenomenon experienced by some of the more popular free to play titles crossing over to paid games, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out someone has already gone broke due to FIFA's Ultimate Team.

tl;dr edition: microtransactions in full priced titles are shit, developers and publishers should stop adding them to games and we consumers should stop buying the bloody things.
 
Just stick it to them by buying the game used, refusing to purchase tokens, and complaining via social media. It's all we can really do but that's pretty shitty.
 

Brohan

Member
All that's left is the grind, and it's not a particularly pleasant one. Unlike previous outings, cars don't unlock upon levelling up. Everything must be bought in Forza Motorsport 5, and all transactions take place in a slightly misshapen economy. A series will, on average, net the player in excess of 110,000 credits for just under an hour's effort - but with some of the premium racecars costing well over a million, it's a somewhat brutal grind. Good job, then, that there are tokens purchasable on the Xbox One's marketplace for you to attain the car you're after, or to temporarily boost the rate at which you gain XP. When you've already paid £429.99 for a new console, £44.99 for the game and maybe even £349.99 for the only steering wheel that the game supports at launch, such tricks appear a little unsavoury, and in Forza 5, mechanics greedily smuggled from free-to-play games trample over the elegant RPG elements the series once embraced so effectively.

Wow, that sounds pretty gross, yet alot of reviewers don't seem to care about this... which seems strange to me as i imagine that there are plenty of consumers who would care about this.
 

Phawx

Member
I think you mean Dead Space 3.

Other than that, I'm 100% with you. Microtransactions have zero place in full priced games.
 
Completely agree. People would lose their god damn minds if this was forced into other popular forms of entertainment. Awesome, just got a new Bluray, pop that shit in, hit play, intro titles start to roll... ok these intro credits are super boring and way too long, I've also watched the first 10 minutes on youtube last week, lets fast forward. Wait what? Pay 5$ to unlock fast forward? I have to watch the movie in its entirety twice before unlocking fast forward? Well I guess it is "convenient" for me to buy fast forward now since I don't have the time.

Nothing like rewarding exploitative practices, not only once with your initial purchase, but again with a bunch of micro transactions.
 

Sneds

Member
I agree but if using microtransactions increases company profits then EA and other companies will continue to do it.
 

Abounder

Banned
Telling sim fans not to buy Gran Turismo 6 or Forza because they allow microtransactions won't stop them from becoming hits or do much to alter the unfortunate practice of DLC becoming the norm.

Each system wants you to pay monthly and each game wouldn't mind if you did the same. Hopefully the industry can make the content worth its value without making the experience worse

When it comes to EA, just stay the fuck away and don't give them any $$$. But unfortunately they grabbed exclusive sports licenses so fans fans shove money into crappy football games despite the shitty consumer choice.

The continued existence and success of games like Madden and Fifa can make me despise the fellow gamer

ESPN_NFL_2K5.jpg


RIP NFL2k, and fuck you EA for your anti consumer bullshit. EA being one of the biggest video game companies around just makes me a sad panda for the industry
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Sorry bud, they got GT6 too. Console racing sims are probably fucked for good now. The racing model is just too tempting to lump the micro transactions into.

I'd like to see the comparison in tracks, cars, and features before completely admonishing GT6 compared to what I read in the F5 review thread.

Bare in mind, I have no intentions of buying GT6 anytime soon.
 

Ian

Member
I hate it as much as anybody but until the average gamer stops justifying this practice by buying the DLC it's going to keep happening.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I think it's reasonable of gamers to not accept $60 games launching with $50 of DLC out of the gate.

that $50 DLC used to come on the disc. Heck, it probably still is on the disc.

I don't like the idea of paying for in-game credits. It potentially encourages devs to have crappy grinding, so that some people will be pushed into wanting to pay to skip that.

DLC cars/tracks I'm on the fence about. I don't mind that much, but I wish they didn't reset with every game. If you spend $50 on downloadable cars on Forza 5, or GT6, then I'd want to keep those cars for Forza 6 and GT7. It'll be the same damn assets, don't make me rebuy them for the next game in the same franchise.
 
holy shit, if this becomes a thing on PS4 games I will quick gaming!

THERE IS NO WAY I will support this kind of shitty anti consumer behaviour. The app store on iPhone is down the shitter and I have just stopped playing games on it due to this microtransaction shit fest. if the sell a game for full price I DEMAND a full game with all the features. wtf is this shit!

If they sell the game for half the price then yes maybe then I will buy some stuff.

or some DLC content, that I would pay for like in COD when we get new maps etc.
 

stuminus3

Banned
I can live with the microtransactions so long as the out-of-the-box game balance isn't broken without them.

What I can't stand is the constant in-your-face reminders that there's something you should be buying. Forza Horizon is HORRIFIC for this. It's a real shame because I love the game, it just leaves me so sour with the reminders that I should spend more money. No surprise to see Forza 5 is even worse with this.
 
I'd like to see the comparison in tracks, cars, and features before completely admonishing GT6 compared to what I read in the F5 review thread.

Bare in mind, I have no intentions of buying GT6 anytime soon.

The level at which a game hinders its progress to skew toward micro transactions is a secondary concern. I don't want them in games, period. I think it is an exploitative practice and a concerning trend in gaming. Thanks mobile games!
 

Haunted

Member
Sounds like the in-game economy was balanced to push people into purchasing cars with real money.

Pretty despicable for a full-price title.


edit: I called this a few years ago, when EA first put in purchasable consumables into their Godfather game. People were shouting me down back then since these were just optional purchases and the in-game balance wouldn't be affected by them.

Well, here we are.
 

Razdek

Banned
Yea this is starting to become a joke when games are already announcing $50 DLC before the game is even released and the things announced can easily be included with the game. This is a step up from the horse armor and really sleazy from the publishers.
 

PG2G

Member
These sim racers have always had a grind involved. I'll need to get my hands on the game and see if it is the same old grind with a shortcut for immediate satisfaction or whether they have made major changes to push people towards buying tokens
 

highrider

Banned
I just don't buy the stuff. I still picked up dead space 3 as I enjoyed the previous games, but it was dangerously close to me passing on it. Of course people will want the cool cars, so publishers are taking advantage.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Ok well I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, bitterly disappointed if so, but I have enough of a backlog and no doubt this gen has enough gems to keep me going for a while, I am sure the market will reflect this as a mistake for publishers to make.


Obligatory: sticking to current gen and retro if so, knee jerk reaction etc etc. Rawggle grr grr yell at clouds


Also RE4 on the Wii one if the greatest and complete games and vie for money etc etc
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
The level at which a game hinders its progress to skew toward micro transactions is a secondary concern. I don't want them in games, period. I think it is an exploitative practice and a concerning trend in gaming. Thanks mobile games!

Indeed haha
 

U-R

Member
I have nothing against companies forcing microtransactions: they are in the business of making money out of naive gamers, and I'm in the business of not buying exploitative products. We compliment each other well.

What irks me, instead, are both the game designers in denial that their job regressed into engineering exploitative tricks out of classic design templates (Gamasutra has really a collection of those) and gamers who defend their practices ("I can grind everything for free and you should have no life too", and "I paid to win, therefore the game is not pay to win", take the cake for the worst in-denial excuses). And even in this case, it's not the people or their preferences and self delusions, but the fact their denial is reshaping gaming in the worst possible way for my tastes.

Jonathan Blow did a very great talk about how some game design elements cannot survive microtransactions, it was probably already posted but I'll link it here just in case.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Until they start getting docked in reviews for obvious game balance altering to push microtransactions. they will continue to do it.

Needless grinding is the worst aspect of games today.
 
The F2P elements slipped into Forza in Horizon, and a lot of people had either ignored or complained about it. It wasn't intrusive enough to completely kill the game, has that changed here?
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I think it's reasonable of gamers to not accept $60 games launching with $50 of DLC out of the gate.

It's crap like that that will force me out of gaming. It's pure greed. Fuck 'em. I won't support a company who does such things.
 

shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Completely agree with TC on this one.

I'm going to return my X1 preorder after they pulled this bullshit with Crimson Dragon and Forza 5, the two next-gen games I was most excited about. (Too late to cancel my order from Gamestop online apparently)
 
F2P broken system progression in a AAA game? Welcome to next gen :-/ I hope that the OP's quote is an hyperbole more than a real thing.
 

GHG

Member
Agreed.

I just went about buying Black Flag on the PC. I was so confused for about half an hour. I counted 4 different SKU's across various websites and also saw DLC available. Now correct me if I'm wrong but this game only just came out right? If so why the fuck is DLC already available at a price? And why can't there just be 1 SKU and then a season pass if they insist on shoving DLC down our throats? In the end I just bought the deluxe edition from GMG with a discount code. What happened to the simple times when you could just search for a game, there is 1 SKU to buy it and then its done?

What a mess this has all become.
 

Orbis

Member
Wow, that sounds pretty gross, yet alot of reviewers don't seem to care about this... which seems strange to me as i imagine that there are plenty of consumers who would care about this.
Yeah but many of them don't write reviews for consumers. They're written for clicks and a nice healthy relationship with publishers. That said there are a lot of respectable reviewers out there, and perhaps in this case some of them already see things like this as part of gaming life now.

Anyway, this kind of thing is only going to get worse. It seems like real currency transactions are basically being tacked onto everything and anything now. I don't have an issue if it's addon content which has a justifiable cost to the developer that warrants it falling outside of what's reasonable for the £40+ you paid for the game. I do have an issue though with pay to win bullshit and mountains of day one content that in another time would've been included with the game.

Boosting the rate of XP gain? That's fucking pay to win and is basically saying "yeah, we know the rate of XP gain is unfairly low, how about paying to increase it?". Years ago there'd be a cheat code or something if you really wanted to do something like this.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I also blame gamers who have bought into this shite. You fuelled this. It's on you.
I have never bought a single bit of DLC in my life and I never will.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
yeah, Arkham Origins does the EXACT SAME THING.

It's bullshit, but it's also still optional. My thoughts on DLC.

If it negates a grind, make your own decision. Vote with your wallet.
If it is truly added content, I'll buy it if I see value.
If it's "on disc DLC", I'll still buy it if I see value, but I am going to be more skewed against buying it.

When all else fails, just wait for the GOTY version which will be the same full price game just with all included DLC. And for most GOTYs, when they release it usually creates a healthy uptick for a little bit in multiplayer. As opposed to buying the title 3 years later for dirt cheap, getting all of the DLC but having a totally dead multiplayer scene.

I also blame gamers who have bought into this shite. You fuelled this. It's on you.
I have never bought a single bit of DLC in my life and I never will.

Well now this is a pretty idiotic stance to take.

Ballad of Gay Tony
Undead Nightmare
LA Noire DLC scenarios
music game downloads
Elder Scrolls expansions
Borderlands expansions
New Super Luigi U

I mean there is TONS of DLC out there that is truly amazing. To lump any of that stuff in with F2P grind removals and stuff is just stupid.
 

CTLance

Member
110k per hour, and cars cost a million or more each? Ouch. Not much leeway for experiments, is there.

What scares me is that they're doing this based on real-world numbers. Nobody just gets up one day and thinks it would be kinda fun to screw their customers over for shits and giggles - there's probably loads and loads of market research going into this change. Someone looked at the numbers and projected that they would make a massive profit from this.

Hence: There are customers that encourage and enable these kinds of changes to games. Fucking hell, stay the fuck away from muh games. *gets pitchfork*
 

Ludist210

Member
I think it's reasonable of gamers to not accept $60 games launching with $50 of DLC out of the gate.
This entirely. If I've already dropped full-price on a title, why on earth should I be expected to pay more for (what are usually) costumes or skins?

I bought Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate when it launched...and then there was $40 of DLC available for it on the first day of launch. If I bought it all (I didn't buy any), I would have spent over $80 to get it. Ridiculous.
 
Sorry bud, they got GT6 too. Console racing sims are probably fucked for good now. The racing model is just too tempting to lump the micro transactions into.

IIRC, they didn't change the in game economy. The micro transactions are only a means of unlocking things faster than normal.

EDIT: Ahh, ok, I see what you mean, you just don't want it in game at all.
 

daveo42

Banned
It sucks that sim racers are now going in this direction. It's nice, I suppose, that you don't have to grind for cars and make more of the game accessible to those who don't have the time to put in to unlock all the cars, but making the grind that much longer for those who avoid micro transactions isn't the way to go at all, especially if it messes with giving those who spend cash an edge in multiplayer. Speaking of, I hope we can avoid this in Drive Club, since it's already happening in GT6 too.

The idea of micro transactions aren't inherently bad when implemented correctly, but I've yet to see any game do this.

Edit:
IIRC, they didn't change the in game economy. The micro transactions are only a means of unlocking things faster than normal.

Thanks for the good news.
 
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