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Digital Foundry: Forza 5 1080p/60FPS gameplay and performance analysis videos
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
PuppetMaster
Member
wait...
i thought i saw..
isn't that...
I more shocked that shot is from Forza 5. Say it isn't so.
Terbinator
Member
There appears to be some motion blur in the DF grabs i did.
We don't have any high quality footage of the E3 build that I know of, but there are some clear differences. Look at the windows, shadows and building geometry. Buildings are a lot flatter in the finished version/review version. I also haven't seen God rays there.
There's a few shots showing how they've removed trees casting shadows and the like. You can tell even with youtube shot comparisons. The thread talking about downgrades just got closed despite being pretty conclusive.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90611423&postcount=203
See trees, road, shadows, etc.
It's not, it's the same footage as the Fallon gameplay demo.
And compression or not, the downgrades are kind of obvious.
phosphor112
Banned
60fps lock is always good. It's a bit disingenuous to sell us so many previews that looked significantly better, only to receive a massive downgrade afterward for launch.
Here are the differences I've noted. Correct me if I am wrong.
Downgrades.
- Overall lighting and dynamic range
- Textures on certain buildings
- Geometry
- Shaders
- Ambient Occlusion
- Quality of crowd models
- Motion blur reduction
- Shadow quality
- Post processing (reduction of fog etc)
- Anti Aliasing
- Number of trees and quality of foliage
Upgrades.
- Certain buildings now have windows
- Bloom has been reduced
- Road textures in areas are better
PuppetMaster
Member
Ambient Occlusion seems totally missing... Fallon version looks an order of magnitude better
Well stuff always happens between the game's reveal til it's launch so this is no surprise. Also of important note, when the game was shown at E3 and Gamescom, there were only a handful of cars on the track. Optimization, along with them wanting to have a full grid of 16, running at no less than 60fps, had led to this.
It's night and day, even from youtube grab.
Can't image what high res grabs will look like.
shinra-bansho
Member
Random aside: why would you use such disinterested looking poses for your cutout crowd? They're all at the race side to stare vacantly away from the track...
Gemüsepizza
Member
There are some pretty big changes in old Forza builds vs current Forza builds as seen in this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=666961&page=5
Those changes are pretty obvious from the linked material. Unfortunately the thread was locked by m0dus because he seems to think people are making unfair assumptions about the new Forza build based on low quality material, that's why I will refrain from calling these changes downgrades until we can get higher quality material. Maybe someone can contact Eurogamer to make some comparisons with better material.
Edit: Seems like I am a little late lol.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=666961&page=5
Those changes are pretty obvious from the linked material. Unfortunately the thread was locked by m0dus because he seems to think people are making unfair assumptions about the new Forza build based on low quality material, that's why I will refrain from calling these changes downgrades until we can get higher quality material. Maybe someone can contact Eurogamer to make some comparisons with better material.
Edit: Seems like I am a little late lol.
Wait is that seriously what the crowd looks like
phosphor112
Banned
The last thread was closed because of those screenshots, but considering the NEW youtube footage is higher bitrate than the original, I don't see how we CAN'T use the new ones for comparison. It doesn't make sense.
eso76
Member
no motion blur ingame at 60fps.
I don't think it was there at Jimmy Fallon's, and if it was he wasn't playing live
PuppetMaster
Member
Is this why the Forza5 reviews were embargoed till so late? Because they thought reviewers might notice?
Luckily for MS, the reviewers so far seem oblivious to the downgrade.
Luckily for MS, the reviewers so far seem oblivious to the downgrade.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Wow haha
shadowsdarknes
Member
Downgrade is obvious. Microsoft definitely overshot with this game.
There's no way they could have made this game look like the E3 build at 1080p 60 fps.
If they hadn't harped so loudly about 1080p for this game, they may have tried to do 900p or 720p like most other Xbox One games.
There's no way they could have made this game look like the E3 build at 1080p 60 fps.
If they hadn't harped so loudly about 1080p for this game, they may have tried to do 900p or 720p like most other Xbox One games.
Terbinator
Member
The closed thread also had direct-feed grabs from DF's footage and was still closed.
Astounding that a 1st party exclusive closed-track racer using static, pre-baked lighting still needs to make so many sacrifices to hit 1080p60 on XB1. This gen is going to be interesting.
Gemüsepizza;90615077 said:
I've already looked at higher quality footage from DF. It doesn't change anything, only confirms it. Compression or not, that thread with the YouTube comparison shots was still a good indicator. Both the comparison shots were from YT grabs and the downgrades being discussed were still quite clearly evident.
shinra-bansho
Member
The crowd in the first picture look 3D as well rather than cutouts?
It looks like the whole crowd is just random people that I think are T10 employees
The differences seen here are not in IQ or textures, but in geometry and especially lightning and is easy to see even with a low quality video. This could be a from a 360p video and the difference would still be big.
I see that too, but they look 3D in the second pic too so either not a downgrade or impossible (for me at least) to tell.
My god that downgrade is much bigger than I had anticipated. The lighting model is like night and day. The retail version looks so sterile compared to the E3 build.
Honestly, one does not really need better quality footage to see the immediate differences between the two builds. So many effects from the initial build are missing in the final, it really isn't funny.
Honestly, one does not really need better quality footage to see the immediate differences between the two builds. So many effects from the initial build are missing in the final, it really isn't funny.
Well it's kind of difficult to write about in a review, no? Do you dock marks from a game for not looking as good as when it was initially revealed? For deception about the looks? What if it still looks quite good (Forza doesn't, obviously, but it's 1080p60fps, so I guess that's something), even despite the downgrades? What if in every way it was exemplary, but didn't look as good as the initial reveal; would that be reason enough to dock points?
These aren't rhetorical questions, they're all things that need serious thought with respect to these kinds of issues.
GameSeeker
Member
After looking at the high quality Digital Foundry footage and comparing it to the high quality E3 video direct from Microsoft, it's clear that Forza 5 was down-graded from E3.
The anti-aliasing sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the pristine E3 video, but there are other changes as well. Take a look yourself.
The Microsoft E3 footage is here:
http://news.xbox.com/~/media/Images...ort 5/Forza5_2013-06-10_B-Roll_E3 Package.mp4
The anti-aliasing sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the pristine E3 video, but there are other changes as well. Take a look yourself.
The Microsoft E3 footage is here:
http://news.xbox.com/~/media/Images...ort 5/Forza5_2013-06-10_B-Roll_E3 Package.mp4
shinra-bansho
Member
In the second picture I can tell they're the same flat photo cutouts as in the other picture posted above with Dan Greenwalt circled. It doesn't look like that in the first one, although it could be the low quality material.
(I assume people will be driving around the track fast enough they won't actually notice these things anyway while playing, just something that was noticeable in these pictures).
phosphor112
Banned
Like I said in the last thread. Thuway and CBOAT said they're would be downgrades.
In fact, I was told there would be downgrades by Thuway even before FM5 was originally shown. He said their kits used much more powerful GPU's while Sony had weaker GPU in their kit.
In fact, I was told there would be downgrades by Thuway even before FM5 was originally shown. He said their kits used much more powerful GPU's while Sony had weaker GPU in their kit.
The 1GB video? No...it's not terrible quality lol. You probably won't get better quality video from any other site besides maybe Gamersyde.
Might be down to lighting.
Metalmurphy
Member
Dan didn't let anyone 3D scan him.
They should be rhetorical, because ofcourse they shouldn't. They need to review solely the product they have in hand. What people will buy. Any other factor should be irrelevant to a review.
plagiarize
Banned
I'd rather they do what they needed to hit 1080p 60 than keep all the 'pretties' and drop either of those targets. Turn 10 get a 'good job!' from me.
If you look at the last two comparisons (four pictures) in this post I'd say that personally the finished FM5 looks better with the less saturated colors. Earlier Forzas (especially 3) were way too colorful.
I mostly agree. But to say 'I guess the downgrades went unnoticed by reviewers' implies that the reviewers should take them into account or mention them.
PuppetMaster
Member
To me it appears the trees in the E3 version were self shadowing. That's why they appear darker and fuller. The new shots look totally flat.
metareferential
Member
Yeah, the other thread was pretty conclusive.
Even though overall Prague still looks great.
Even though overall Prague still looks great.