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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.

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CSX

Member
Here are the prices.

oYfR8UG.png

I love how the highest pack isnt even enough lol....
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I'm not sure I understand the "just earn them in-game" response. Obviously the problem is that the game has been tweaked to incentivize people spending real money. You don't -have- to, but you'd have to grind miserably or something like that to have an equivalent experience to what you might have had in the same game one iteration prior.

That said, the only really truly dishonest and damning thing for me is the "RECOMMENDED!" and "GREAT VALUE!" stickers on the Token purchase page. Those pages are lying to consumers. Literally.

Microsoft's launch lineup is pretty annoying with this. When I spent all my VALOR points in Ryse, it IMMEDIATELY took me to the store and showed me the item I could purchase with real money to get more.
 
All of microsofts first party games are like this. It's why I'm not buying crimson dragon. In hindsight KI got off easy because at least it's sold in different bundles

I'm already terrified of what there gonna do to halo next year
 
Or alternatively spend $150 in tokens.

Yikes.

See this is why I want someone to add up all the cars in the game at token cost price. If you add that to the cost of the game itself plus the season pass, you'll then arrive at what I think should be advertised as the "full price" of the game.

Obviously this number will be comically large.
 

PG2G

Member
1200 races at 5k to unlock. Whoa...

Nobody is going to do a bunch of class D races in order to earn that car.

As you go up in class, so will your payout. That's why its hard for anyone to realistically say how much time kt takes. Before you even consider buying that car you're going go be at the top classes eating MUCH more
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
The weirdest thing is the Drivatar stuff. Jeff from Giantbomb said before launch when he'd boot up Forza, the game alerted him that his drivatar was in 100 or so races and earned 16,000 credits. Then the next day during the XB1 launch he came back and his drivatar was in 900+ races but earned less than 10k in credits.
 

PG2G

Member
See this is why I want someone to add up all the cars in the game at token cost price. If you add that to the cost of the game itself plus the season pass, you'll then arrive at what I think should be advertised as the "full price" of the game.

Obviously this number will be comically large.

And what insight will that provide? That isn't the cost of the game.
 
To be fair you're pretty hardcore.

I'd guess that most of us, even on GAF won't end up putting up that kind of investment into these games, so the progression will feel slower and longer.

For instance I don't play GT5 online or B-Spec. So all I have is the career, and that becomes a grind when I find myself repeating some events purely for the money. Seasonal events do help though.

Then maybe a racing sim isn't for you. You want to race on these tracks over and over again to improve your times, by adjusting your play style and finding new breaking points only to shave off a few fractions of a second to move up on the leader board.

Are you in this to look at cars or are you looking to race? Because if your looking to race you cant say its a grind.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Have you ever played Forza or GT?



It sounds like they made it more expensive to get if you pay for it and didn't change much if you are getting it through the standard career progression.

Have you played Forza 4? You earned credits from races, but on top of that, you earned free cars and bonus credits for leveling up, and not to mention the reward cars for competing events. Non of that besides the basic race credits are in the game. GT (well before the seasonal events) has grind, and always has. In Forza 4 I was swimming in credits. On top of that, race a bit in a particular car, and you don't have to pay for upgrades for all other makes from that car maker. That's not in the game anymore either.
 
Nobody is going to do a bunch of class D races in order to earn that car.

As you go up in class, so will your payout. That's why its hard for anyone to realistically say how much time kt takes. Before you even consider buying that car you're going go be at the top classes eating MUCH more

Honestly, if they're charging $150 cash money for it, it's probably safe to assume that the time required to earn the credits would be in the order of 40+ hours.
 
And what insight will that provide? That isn't the cost of the game.

It's the cost of the full content of the game, i.e. what will probably be on the disc of the "ultimate edition" or whatever in a couple of years time.

The insight it will provide is that these microtransactions are a rip-off.
 
The weirdest thing is the Drivatar stuff. Jeff from Giantbomb said before launch when he'd boot up Forza, the game alerted him that his drivatar was in 100 or so races and earned 16,000 credits. Then the next day during the XB1 launch he came back and his drivatar was in 900+ races but earned less than 10k in credits.

It probably depends how his drivatar is doing in said races?
If it is shitty, 900 races being bottom (especially if there's a cutoff for credit earning) he won't be seeing money with it unless he improves his driving.

I'm not sure I understand the "just earn them in-game" response. Obviously the problem is that the game has been tweaked to incentivize people spending real money. You don't -have- to, but you'd have to grind miserably or something like that to have an equivalent experience to what you might have had in the same game one iteration prior.

This hasn't been confirmed yet.
 

BigDug13

Member
I'm glad I learned my lesson with the 360.

It sickens me that I supported the Xbox brand through 2 generations so heavily. I'm waiting for the day they turn off my already-purchased Rockband DLC content from the storefront and I'm stuck with my final 360, hoping it never dies as the DLC will forever be gone.
 
The weirdest thing is the Drivatar stuff. Jeff from Giantbomb said before launch when he'd boot up Forza, the game alerted him that his drivatar was in 100 or so races and earned 16,000 credits. Then the next day during the XB1 launch he came back and his drivatar was in 900+ races but earned less than 10k in credits.

I saw that quick look.....................Jeff isn't very good, so adding more drivers to the pool its obvious he would fall down.
 

PG2G

Member
Have you played Forza 4? You earned credits from races, but on top of that, you earned free cars and bonus credits for leveling up, and not to mention the reward cars for competing events. Non of that besides the basic race credits are in the game. GT (well before the seasonal events) has grind, and always has. In Forza 4 I was swimming in credits. On top of that, race a bit in a particular car, and you don't have to pay for upgrades for all other makes from that car maker. That's not in the game anymore either.

You actually do get a fair amount of credits for leveling up.
 
Are you in this to look at cars or are you looking to race? Because if your looking to race you cant say its a grind.
I'm in it to race. But I also want to race my dream cars, so I look at the price of those cars and how much I'm raking in, and consider how long it will take me organically to get one in a reasonable time frame.

That pushes me towards high reward races, which may or may not be fun, depending.

The very worst sensation I've ever had in a racing sim was buying car DLC for Forza 4 and then seeing that I needed millions of credits I didn't have to actually drive the high end cars in that pack. This feeling was made worse by the game informing me I could spend more money to drive them right now.

Its an abhorrent practice and it looks like they are not just doubling down on it, they're going whale crazy with it.
 
I'm not sure I understand the "just earn them in-game" response. Obviously the problem is that the game has been tweaked to incentivize people spending real money. You don't -have- to, but you'd have to grind miserably or something like that to have an equivalent experience to what you might have had in the same game one iteration prior.

That said, the only really truly dishonest and damning thing for me is the "RECOMMENDED!" and "GREAT VALUE!" stickers on the Token purchase page. Those pages are lying to consumers. Literally.

Microsoft's launch lineup is pretty annoying with this. When I spent all my VALOR points in Ryse, it IMMEDIATELY took me to the store and showed me the item I could purchase with real money to get more.

Because that ISNT the case. The just earn it argument is there because you make money like crazy in this game. Are you going to buy that 4 million credit car in the first few hours? No, no your not. But your not meant to, and not for money grubbing purposes. Again the career mode is a progression. You start in cars like Mazda Miata and the Mitsubishi eclipse and work your way up. You earn a ton of money for each race compared to what the car you bought costs. When you level up you get a ton of credits even in the early going. Your drivatar earns credits when your not online (mine earned 8k while I was sleeping). The Token option is there for people who want the expensive cars right out the gate, but they are going to pay a premium for them
 

PG2G

Member
It's the cost of the full content of the game, i.e. what will probably be on the disc of the "ultimate edition" or whatever in a couple of years time.

The insight it will provide is that these microtransactions are a rip-off.

An ultimate edition would be the same and you'd still have to unlock the content in career mode.
 
Here are the prices.

http://i.imgur.com/oYfR8UG.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
0.99/100 = 0.0099
4.99/325 = 0.015354
9.99/575 = 0.017374 < "Recommended"
19.99/1250 = 0.0159992
49.99/2700 = 0.018515 < "Great Value"
99.99/8000 = 0.012499

Did I miss something or make a mistake? The scaling seems off, or they are suggesting the most expensive packages.
 
For those who want to spend some extra real money and get those exclusive cars, they’ll have that option, but they will no longer devalue the hard work of those who earned the cars through racing and building up in-game credits.
Exclusive cars
he says that like it isn't a video game...

So now only the rich get to drive supercars in videogames?
I can't even

The second part I'm not even going to dignify, what a clown
 

Xanadu

Banned
Then maybe a racing sim isn't for you. You want to race on these tracks over and over again to improve your times, by adjusting your play style and finding new breaking points only to shave off a few fractions of a second to move up on the leader board.

Are you in this to look at cars or are you looking to race? Because if your looking to race you cant say its a grind.

most people that play forza these days probably arent into sims, they play with all assists on and like to play car bowling

but even though i do like to earn my way up to a fast car, those prices are fucking ridiculous and the whole thing is anti consumer

0.99/100 = 0.0099
4.99/325 = 0.015354
9.99/575 = 0.017374 < "Recommended"
19.99/1250 = 0.0159992
49.99/2700 = 0.018515 < "Great Value"
99.99/8000 = 0.012499

Did I miss something or make a mistake? The scaling seems off, or they are suggesting the most expensive packages.

you've foiled them
 
I'm in it to race. But I also want to race my dream cars, so I look at the price of those cars and how much I'm raking in, and consider how long it will take me organically to get one in a reasonable time frame.

That pushes me towards high reward races, which may or may not be fun, depending.

The very worst sensation I've ever had in a racing sim was buying car DLC for Forza 4 and then seeing that I needed millions of credits I didn't have to actually drive the high end cars in that pack. This feeling was made worse by the game informing me I could spend more money to drive them right now.

Its an abhorrent practice and it looks like they are not just doubling down on it, they're going whale crazy with it.

But they give you so much money in Forza 4, if you were racing as much as you say it shouldn't have been a problem to buy any car.
 
"The only game that lets you relive the feeling of not being able to afford your dream car."

Lol, that's pretty good.

Personally I refuse to buy any DLC or spend any money on microtransactions. I never have and I don't ever plan to. If the system keeps going in this direction it may ultimately be the undoing of the industry I'm afraid.
 

Last Hope

Member
Well this game has no relevance as a multiplayer game if this is the case.

No way I'd pay full price for a game that has ruined the MP element.
 
0.99/100 = 0.0099
4.99/325 = 0.015354
9.99/575 = 0.017374 < "Recommended"
19.99/1250 = 0.0159992
49.99/2700 = 0.018515 < "Great Value"
99.99/8000 = 0.012499

Did I miss something or make a mistake? The scaling seems off, or they are suggesting the most expensive packages.

Ha! I knew that Microsoft was lying when they claimed that the EU prices were in error due to that exact problem.
 

RaikuHebi

Banned
This seems an apt subject to talk about alongside the argument about monetization and micro-transactions.

The shoehorning of experience points and all this brainless rote statistics shit into tons of non-RPG games needs to die. I never thought it could get any worse but as I've watched Quicklooks of the launch games, I'm astonished how nearly every fucking thing seems to be doing it now. I know it's been building up for years but it didn't hit me until now.

These are making games so dumb and unfun. I just want to play the game. Reggie was right. Why is their so much text flying on the screen. Why is so much dumb shit in pause menus. In RPGs I can understand it, but in action games it's rather dumb. If it were as elaborate as we see in actual RPGs it might be excusable but as far as I can tell it's arbitrary and doesn't mean anything in most of these games. You unlock new moves but is there actually anything to that or does it just make the game easier from there rather than add something new for the player to master?

Just give me a moveset and design a game around that. You know. Actual game design.

EDIT: This was supposed to be a new thread, but I guess it fits here too lol.
 
Haha

I like how you yourself had no idea how bad it would actually get when you created the thread to inform us that it is worse than we think. ;)
There was a post in the Forza 5 OT that listed a few crazy prices, but I couldn't believe em. I honestly thought they were in error, so I started digging. Thus this thread.

But yeah, to see it clearly put - the price of the a car next to the price of the tokens, well, holy shit. Greed confirmed.

But they give you so much money in Forza 4, if you were racing as much as you say it shouldn't have been a problem to buy any car.
Not enough I guess, and I played what was for me, a lot of hours of Forza 4.

I bought the Porsche pack but I didn't have many credits in the bank. I wouldn't have been able to drive many of the cars in that pricey DLC pack if H3rtz hadn't gifted me several million credits. Thanks again for that H3rtz!
 

Bedlam

Member
Horrible gaming trends continue,started in the older gen and now it gets worse.
I wonder what kind of hostile wasteland mainstream videogaming will be at the end of this generation. Will we enthusiasts live in hidden enclaves, eating rats and playing indie games?
 
Have you played Forza 4? You earned credits from races, but on top of that, you earned free cars and bonus credits for leveling up, and not to mention the reward cars for competing events. Non of that besides the basic race credits are in the game. GT (well before the seasonal events) has grind, and always has. In Forza 4 I was swimming in credits. On top of that, race a bit in a particular car, and you don't have to pay for upgrades for all other makes from that car maker. That's not in the game anymore either.

There's the justification. Beautifully done.
 

pixlexic

Banned
why should it be way cheaper to buy something that takes time and skill to earn in game?

I think the prices should be ridiculously high.
 
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