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PastaPadre: Virtual Currency Threatens Future of the NBA2K Series
- Thread starter Pristine_Condition
- Start date
flyinpiranha
Member
The worst part is that this thread won't move much or stay at the top. It doesn't affect enough people (yet).
Holy shit.
It also costs 500VC, which requires two games at the default setting.
pastapadre
Neo Member
I remember linking to that thread in my year-end assessment of the game that year.
Oh man I started writing up an op last night for this exact issue and now someone has sort of done it for me. Here's some user experience from me. (It's the op pasted, sorry) -- it's sort of half done and the intro still lacks cohesion but I cba finishing it.
This is going to focus on myplayer mode, because the shared pool of vc has prevented me from making any significant headway in the running of a franchise(myGm)..
this is a fantastic post with too much truth
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
I know I am pretty pissed off about it. I have purposely avoided games with egregious microtransaction models. For 2k to sneak this always online VC bullshit in the game after I bought it is unacceptable and despicable. For reviewers not to spill a word of it is negligent as well.
I guess I'm part of the problem though because I did get frustrated with the constant grind and used the *free $10 credit that packed in with the PS4 to get some VC that I now can't use in the career mode. I'm mad at myself for being such a mark. Never again man, never again.
I won't be buying this or other games that implement egregious microtransaction economies. Guess that means I'll need to wait a few weeks before buying games to make sure that sneak fuck developers don't try to slip it in after we took the bait. I'm so disappointed with myself.
I guess I'm part of the problem though because I did get frustrated with the constant grind and used the *free $10 credit that packed in with the PS4 to get some VC that I now can't use in the career mode. I'm mad at myself for being such a mark. Never again man, never again.
I won't be buying this or other games that implement egregious microtransaction economies. Guess that means I'll need to wait a few weeks before buying games to make sure that sneak fuck developers don't try to slip it in after we took the bait. I'm so disappointed with myself.
I came soooo close to doing that last night before I slapped some sense into myself. I was tempted to speed up my trophy whoring process but now that I read the last few pages and realized it's basically not going to happen due to the game being as grindy as every other F2P game, I'm just going to sell the game off and boycott 2K sports until they ditch this shit.
I know that this year there seems to be more widespread outrage, but I feel like we are at least 2 years away before the community that cares will have an impact. And that's me being really generous and assuming they'll ever listen.
All I ever see 2k's social media cronies do is tweet out positive comments or screenshots of people going "LOL you finally followed me in the game, Ronnie2k!"
That L2DK guy or whatever popped in here once to try to advertise more shit, and when we threw negativity back in his face and the multitude of issues we had in game and league play, he said "I'll bring it up with the devs" and never came back again.
Like you said earlier, those major media outlets aren't 'hardcore' enough to give ripping reviews about what's important. Hell, you'd think reading all of the reviews about this game that 2k14 was the second coming of Christ.
Like, things are so bad that we're talking about making a manual league where we do "play with friends" only (because that's all that seems to work online) and we make our own spreadsheets, brackets, etc. We probably won't record stats cause too much time. But that is just fucking RIDICULOUS that we'd have to go to those lengths
I do hope that this outrage continues but I feel like I've been fighting the same battle for half a decade now :-/
Also I need to point out that I also have the PC version and in MyPlayer I can't play a game in the 2nd season cause when I play next game or play next key game all it does is crash. Maybe it's my computer but I never have these sorts of issues elsewhere. and we'll never get it patched. Bravo 2k!
pastapadre
Neo Member
I don't fault them that much because they're not authorized to comment on anything controversial. Of course all that does is stir up frustration by ignoring people's legitimate complaints and basically rubbing it in their faces by only referencing things like winning the VGX award for Best Sports Game!!!
Swauny Jones
Member
Maybe they are using all the money they earn from this scam to try and finally fix their crappy servers. I find 2K games really push my patience with how crappy their servers are.
turnbuckle
Member
I think something very similar to 2K is going to happen to MLB The Show 2014.
MLB The Show 2014 Universal Currency (and other shit...sorry, love you Cabrera)
I'm not sure if you guys have played the Diamond Dynasty mode that's new in the 2012 or 2013 versions of the game yet or not. It's basically a very similar structure to what's being shown here. There are probably similar modes in other sports games, the difference here being a focus on the "universal currency" aspect of it:
- Online Required to play
- Stadiums available in other modes locked behind currency purchase in this one
- Player Packs cost currency and are randomized.
- Currency earned through playing CPU or human. Can be purchased with real money.
- Most expensive packs are worth roughly $10. Lesser packs available.
- Winning a game grants you a certain amount of currency. On hardest difficulty (really, really hard) you can earn roughly $2 worth of currency.
- Losing nets you about $.50 worth. Values change depending on team and difficulty setting.
- Values are different when playing against human. Never as much as winning against CPU on hardest difficulty; losing often grants less than losing to CPU.
- Earn more money against a human the higher your fan rating is. This is based upon player performance, and is cumulative. So a player who has played 40 games will earn more money for your team than a player with fewer games experience.
- Maximum life on cards is 40 games. All MLB cards have a maximum life of 10 games. Once that card expires you have to buy a new card to replace them. You earn less money for that player as he will start with a fan rating of 0.
and on and on, kinda basic stuff really I guess. Just a big hamster wheel, one that's pretty fun but one that's also seeing the devs constantly tweaking things to make payouts less generous. A few things they've done this year (most in past few months):
- Lowered payouts for winning games
- Increased cost of training players
- Increased penalty for over-training players
- Reduced training limit for players, making it easier to overtrain (more expensive)
- Lowering chance of getting high rated players from packs/card recycling
----
So yeah, this is a mode I've loved but they've really started stacking the deck against players. It's a completely optional mode, but then again so is every mode in a game. Saying something is optional isn't an excuse for taking advantage of fans of a series/mode.
What I'm worried about more than them tweaking things one way or the other to increase the grind is the possibility that more modes are going to require an internet connection. Before MLB 2014, the currency in Diamond Dynasty was its own thing and had no effect on anything else.
Same for franchise budget (which the game has had microtransactions for for years)
Same for RttS (which the game has had Microtransactions for for years)
But up to this point you could play franchise and RttS offline. You could set options to be more favorable for you. You could have multiple save files and re-use money in different ways to see; you could reload a file if you wanted to be cheesy and go for that 162-0 season. These things would result in you earning more currency for that mode and you'd become a baseball god after a few seasons. But still - a few seasons is a long time, god or not.
Now with a universal currency I don't know how they would plan to control for these kinds of things without having an online requirement. If you can cheese against the computer and use that money in one of the other modes like Diamond Dynasty, it creates an unfair scenario where you have an inflated budget. That would kill that mode.
But what this opens the door to is a very similar scenario we're seeing here with 2K14. Maybe not as bad, maybe just as bad, maybe worse - who knows? Only thing I know is that there's a good reason to believe MLB 2014 will be more restrictive and have more MT hooks than in previous years.
I hope I'm wrong. I've bought the game every year since 2008. I've pre-ordered it every year since then. Hell, I've bought MLB The Show Controllers and the shitty MLB The Show 2012 for the Vita.
But I know that I won't be pre-ordering the game now unless there's an explicit statement regarding these issues from the developers that doesn't sound like a bunch of BS. And that sucks, because by not pre-ordering, I lose out on "$20 worth of Universal Currency".
Fuck.
MLB The Show 2014 Universal Currency (and other shit...sorry, love you Cabrera)
I'm not sure if you guys have played the Diamond Dynasty mode that's new in the 2012 or 2013 versions of the game yet or not. It's basically a very similar structure to what's being shown here. There are probably similar modes in other sports games, the difference here being a focus on the "universal currency" aspect of it:
- Online Required to play
- Stadiums available in other modes locked behind currency purchase in this one
- Player Packs cost currency and are randomized.
- Currency earned through playing CPU or human. Can be purchased with real money.
- Most expensive packs are worth roughly $10. Lesser packs available.
- Winning a game grants you a certain amount of currency. On hardest difficulty (really, really hard) you can earn roughly $2 worth of currency.
- Losing nets you about $.50 worth. Values change depending on team and difficulty setting.
- Values are different when playing against human. Never as much as winning against CPU on hardest difficulty; losing often grants less than losing to CPU.
- Earn more money against a human the higher your fan rating is. This is based upon player performance, and is cumulative. So a player who has played 40 games will earn more money for your team than a player with fewer games experience.
- Maximum life on cards is 40 games. All MLB cards have a maximum life of 10 games. Once that card expires you have to buy a new card to replace them. You earn less money for that player as he will start with a fan rating of 0.
and on and on, kinda basic stuff really I guess. Just a big hamster wheel, one that's pretty fun but one that's also seeing the devs constantly tweaking things to make payouts less generous. A few things they've done this year (most in past few months):
- Lowered payouts for winning games
- Increased cost of training players
- Increased penalty for over-training players
- Reduced training limit for players, making it easier to overtrain (more expensive)
- Lowering chance of getting high rated players from packs/card recycling
----
So yeah, this is a mode I've loved but they've really started stacking the deck against players. It's a completely optional mode, but then again so is every mode in a game. Saying something is optional isn't an excuse for taking advantage of fans of a series/mode.
What I'm worried about more than them tweaking things one way or the other to increase the grind is the possibility that more modes are going to require an internet connection. Before MLB 2014, the currency in Diamond Dynasty was its own thing and had no effect on anything else.
Same for franchise budget (which the game has had microtransactions for for years)
Same for RttS (which the game has had Microtransactions for for years)
But up to this point you could play franchise and RttS offline. You could set options to be more favorable for you. You could have multiple save files and re-use money in different ways to see; you could reload a file if you wanted to be cheesy and go for that 162-0 season. These things would result in you earning more currency for that mode and you'd become a baseball god after a few seasons. But still - a few seasons is a long time, god or not.
Now with a universal currency I don't know how they would plan to control for these kinds of things without having an online requirement. If you can cheese against the computer and use that money in one of the other modes like Diamond Dynasty, it creates an unfair scenario where you have an inflated budget. That would kill that mode.
But what this opens the door to is a very similar scenario we're seeing here with 2K14. Maybe not as bad, maybe just as bad, maybe worse - who knows? Only thing I know is that there's a good reason to believe MLB 2014 will be more restrictive and have more MT hooks than in previous years.
I hope I'm wrong. I've bought the game every year since 2008. I've pre-ordered it every year since then. Hell, I've bought MLB The Show Controllers and the shitty MLB The Show 2012 for the Vita.
But I know that I won't be pre-ordering the game now unless there's an explicit statement regarding these issues from the developers that doesn't sound like a bunch of BS. And that sucks, because by not pre-ordering, I lose out on "$20 worth of Universal Currency".
Fuck.
Swauny Jones
Member
I'm sure winning the VGX award has stroked their ego enough to not change a dang thing either.
Dont feel bad. I bought stuff like that before until I realized it ruined the games. real money in game purchases = loss of immersion and broken compulsion loops.
Marauder Shields
Member
Man this is such a bummer. Skipped 2k14 (since PC version was a last gen port) but I was so hyped to get 2k15 to see how the game looked next gen. Plus dat draft class. I really hope Live can step their game up.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
And here I was looking forward to it :\
Interesting to hear about MLB 2k14's VC woes as well. I thought 2k (and take two as a whole) had a good track record with DLC before this year. GTAO has shitty VC but at least its isolated to online. Hell, Civ, Xcom, Bioshock, Borderlands most recent DLC's all seem fine, though I haven't played all of them.
Of course that type of DLC is different than microtransactions. This really seems unprecedented how it's baked into every playable mode. Scary.
Edit: Thanks for correction turnbuckle and sorry it's MLB the Show, not MLB 2k. Derp
Of course that type of DLC is different than microtransactions. This really seems unprecedented how it's baked into every playable mode. Scary.
Edit: Thanks for correction turnbuckle and sorry it's MLB the Show, not MLB 2k. Derp
pastapadre
Neo Member
Live has Ultimate Team but that's it. Like the other EA Sports titles they keep it restricted to that mode. You can't pay money for anything in franchise or career modes.
turnbuckle
Member
I'm not going to have anything to play this gen, am I? Turrible.
I hope I'm jumping the gun here...but I really don't know how they plan to balance one mode that requires online and has had these pay 2 save time hooks with the other ones if they're all using the same currency.
Something has to give. They haven't put out much detail on the universal currency, nothing really other than it being a pre-order bonus and that the money earned in one mode can be used in another and vice versa. Seems so simple and innocent until you start asking questions.
I never played the MLB 2k series, I don't think there's even going to be a 2014.
But MLB the Show has had DLC before. Pretty much every year, although it didn't really matter much since you could easily earn money. If you wanted to get a head start on earnings you could spend money, but since you had the option to alter the settings in your favor without any penalty you really didn't need to. Also, if you did decide to spend money for currency in RttS, you could always create multiple save files at the point of buying that initial currency so it'd be available every time you created a new RttS player.
The thing they did different started 2 years ago with their online-only Diamond Dynasty mode. It sounds like the ultimate team or whatever it's called from the EA games. This mode allowed you to earn currency through playing the game or you could spend money to buy booster packs. The money you earned in this mode was exclusive to this mode, and since it was online-only everything was saved server-side. This was to maintain competitive balance....though, allowing players to spend money certainly distorted competitive balance. But this was all optional, a sideshow to the other modes of the game most people played.
But now that all the modes use the same form of currency...it would follow that all of the modes will have the same sort of checks in place that Diamond Dynasty did. Unless they decide to make the currency "universal in everything but Diamond Dynasty"...but that ain't happening.
Except when they let x button actual skip the halftime show they flash the sprint logo in your face again for ~ 3-5 seconds. It's deliberate and has nothing to do with loading.
pastapadre
Neo Member
What might ease those concerns is the save migration they're debuting (which will first come into play with MLB 15).
http://www.pastapadre.com/2013/11/0...-titles-being-introduced-with-mlb-14-the-show
The tactics by 2K are about getting people to start from scratch and feel the need to spend on VC as they attempt to progress. If SCEA was going the same route, they wouldn't let people carry their franchises and careers over from one year to the next.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Or that's just the consolation prize. I'm just being pessimistic though because so far this gen has been a huge flop for me between NBA2k and Battlefield.
pastapadre
Neo Member
Well it certainly could be...cause then they would justify by saying if you invest in your players and teams you don't have to throw it all away when you buy the next year's game. I don't get the sense that is the direction that series is going but it's something to monitor for sure.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Nintendo will fulfill your need.
turnbuckle
Member
That's an optimistic way of looking at it. You could be right. But if this is the case, how do they address the concerns about Diamond Dynasty? What are the checks against a person racking up the score against the CPU on easy with all the sliders in their favor to make a ton of money and then using that same money on their Diamond Dynasty Team?
I'm not trying to be a contrarian...this is THE reason I bought my PS4. It's my favorite series.
But the cynic in me is thinking one of the reasons for allowing players to carry over their content is because it gives more "value" to these microtransactions.
Put it another way - would people play Puzzle & Dragons and spend money on Magic Stones and Stamina if they knew in a year's time everything they had would be wiped and they had to start over?
The Show already has MTs for allowing you to heal an injured player. To add budget to a team. Every single second I'm playing Diamond Dynasty in the menus there's a flashing icon at the bottom of the screen. You can't get rid of it, no way to make it stop flashing that I've found. It's flashing like a message notification would flash. Except it's flashing and selecting it takes you to a menu where you can buy in-game credits for Money.
I hope I'm way off here and that everything is done without thoughts of extracting extra money out of fans. But I think you can understand my skepticism.
pastapadre
Neo Member
Well they aren't going to have Diamond Dynasty migrate from one year to the next. So there is at least differentiation there. One could take the perspective that they're not going to carry over the revenue-driven mode, so if the other modes had microtransactions baked in more significantly than the past they might not have allowed it for them either. But it's all speculation at this point. I haven't heard one way or the other on their plans in this regard.
turnbuckle
Member
I hope you're right. maybe I'll keep my pre-order just long enough so I get the bonus in my email, then keep the game unopened until a week or two passes.
who am I kidding... if I get the game I know I'll play it right away. I'm weak. probably one of those things where I'll buy it and if it is more insidious I'll just take it as a lesson learned for 2015. hate buying a game with such uncertainty, but reviews won't be able to really concern themselves with this until it's too late (battlefield 4, nba2k14, etc)
who am I kidding... if I get the game I know I'll play it right away. I'm weak. probably one of those things where I'll buy it and if it is more insidious I'll just take it as a lesson learned for 2015. hate buying a game with such uncertainty, but reviews won't be able to really concern themselves with this until it's too late (battlefield 4, nba2k14, etc)
BigBadShamoo
Banned
Doesn't really matter what they do, there's always virtual shit like bitcoins/paypal and everything else. So virtual currency is always gonna be there,
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
I'd say so. Thread on GAF is only 180 posts deep. We have more passion for people eating cupcake wrappers than microtransaction sports games. Only a small percentage of us care enough about sports games to make a fuss.
post of the thread. bitcoin is ruining gaming.
WhoaIsThatMars
Member
Did I directly suggest to you to play on HOF? Did I suggest every person play on HOF? No, i directed that to someone that didn't feel challenged by the CPU and only played online (something I did myself until this year).
Don't try to make some kind of point by taking all of my words out of context.
Great write up Pasta. In full disclosure, I haven't checked out your site in awhile, as for the longest time, I had you pegged as another shill for EA/Madden. Particularly during the Ian Cummings era. Whether that's actually the case or not, I can't say (and it's not really relevant now). However, looking over your recent posts - there's plenty of good content.
As far as the story goes - it's pretty shameful. Then again, 2K, despite releasing a relatively quality product each year, has never really given a shit what the community thinks, or providing post-launch support for their titles. For example, the past couple of years NBA2K has essentially had the same online issues and roster problems. Player tendencies didn't get touched for at least two years, while they continued to lie about "living" rosters, promoting that Steven A Smith wannabe the "2K Insider". Therefore, it doesn't surprise me in the least that they would stoop to this level.
That being said, I could easily see this being the wave of the future or all sports titles. Which is really unfortunate, because despite all the bullshit, games like NBA2K and The Show are relatively worthwhile purchases. Madden on the other hand, continues to milk morons and their wallets.
As far as the story goes - it's pretty shameful. Then again, 2K, despite releasing a relatively quality product each year, has never really given a shit what the community thinks, or providing post-launch support for their titles. For example, the past couple of years NBA2K has essentially had the same online issues and roster problems. Player tendencies didn't get touched for at least two years, while they continued to lie about "living" rosters, promoting that Steven A Smith wannabe the "2K Insider". Therefore, it doesn't surprise me in the least that they would stoop to this level.
That being said, I could easily see this being the wave of the future or all sports titles. Which is really unfortunate, because despite all the bullshit, games like NBA2K and The Show are relatively worthwhile purchases. Madden on the other hand, continues to milk morons and their wallets.
mekes
Member
If we could ask for a refund I would, but I'm guessing they are covered for that kind of possibility. Such a shame that they have done this to the game, I wanted to get in to it, improve on it (first time owning a 2k game) and convince my friends to play it.
None of that happens now. I'll probably play a few more quick games before looking to swap it for Knack if possible.
None of that happens now. I'll probably play a few more quick games before looking to swap it for Knack if possible.
WhoaIsThatMars
Member
Not to mention the only mlb game available next year, period.
ShogunDarius
Member
I was kind of interested in playing this game, enthesis on was
MiamiWesker
Member
I was offline for a little bit and tried to play this game and the game was practically broken. When it did work almost all modes were gone, I figured the reason being was all the constant server checks for the VC.
I have been playing casually, GM mode mostly, I LOVE the gameplay. Its an excellent basketball sim. But everything around it is disgusting. I want to try MyTeam but I cant do shit with it cause I cant buy a damn pack to actually get good players.
I am glad this is coming to light. This shit needs to be stopped. I wont be buying another 2K game if this is how it will be. (Unless NFL comes back I will buy that no matter what )
I have been playing casually, GM mode mostly, I LOVE the gameplay. Its an excellent basketball sim. But everything around it is disgusting. I want to try MyTeam but I cant do shit with it cause I cant buy a damn pack to actually get good players.
I am glad this is coming to light. This shit needs to be stopped. I wont be buying another 2K game if this is how it will be. (Unless NFL comes back I will buy that no matter what
)Yeah look at this rate my guy is not gonna be hall of fame before 2k15 lands. I'll probably just grab every other 2kxx from now on. 2k16 next up.
Honestly, even though I absolutely despise VC, DLC, content withheld in disc etc I'm too hooked on some titles to straight up avoid them.
I love battlefield too but I cannot stand the idea of premium. Gaming is terrible nowadays. I'm scared to see what the division turns out to be. Guaranteed some pay to win ends up in that title.
Honestly, even though I absolutely despise VC, DLC, content withheld in disc etc I'm too hooked on some titles to straight up avoid them.
I love battlefield too but I cannot stand the idea of premium. Gaming is terrible nowadays. I'm scared to see what the division turns out to be. Guaranteed some pay to win ends up in that title.
StanleyStutters
Member
This stuff really bothers me. It's one thing when a low-priced or free game is loaded with micro-transactions, but I'm not shelling out $60 for a game like that. 2K basketball is a really great game, but VC ruins it. You have to use their currency to do the simplest things in the game, and even wristbands and other accessories for your player are locked behind a pay-wall. On top of that create-a-player and couch co-op in MYGM mode are absent. This could have been a really special game, but there are too many of these annoyances.
I paid the full price for this game, but if VC is still this prevalent in 2K15 it'll be a rent-only title for me.
I paid the full price for this game, but if VC is still this prevalent in 2K15 it'll be a rent-only title for me.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
It's not OK and I really hope somebody starts a class action I can join. Yes I'm still pissed.
Al Gore's Thermostat
Banned
Deplorable. We don't want this, devs. Read my lips.
Spottiettiedop
Member
This is an opportunity for NBA Live 15 next year. At this point there has to be some sort of push back from gamers.