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Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
pulga
Banned
PaulExcellent
Member
Fuck it, I'll believe it.
It's just REALLY good.
Edit: dammit.
It's just REALLY good.
Edit: dammit.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
Even if it is a fake, there's still a good chance she'll be in. So don't panic...yet.
MannyToons
Member
"I know that's the idol from Uprising, as well as her animation, so nice try to those who made it. Besides, I rather wait for Sakurai to give us the real news."
From Admiral Pit on SmashBoards.
From Admiral Pit on SmashBoards.
Poltergust
Member
I'm gonna give my opinion about the statements Sakurai made:
Trumping ledge grabs: I think what GooeyHeat said is accurate. In fact, it's the only thing that makes sense in this context. Think about it, there have been only four possible situations when a recovering character interacts with a character at the edge (ignoring tether recoveries):
1) The edgehogger is invincible, and the recovering character attempts to hit them with an attack. Due to the invincibility, the edgehogger stays on the edge and the recovering character falls.
2) The edgehogger is invincible, and the recovering character falls towards the ledge without doing an attack. The edgehogger remains on and the recovering character falls.
3) The edgehogger is vulnerable, and the recovering character hits them with an attack while recovering and grabs the ledge.
4) The edgehogger is vulnerable, and the recovering character falls to the ledge without throwing out an attack. The recovering character falls.
#4 is the only one that makes sense in the context of trumping. In #1 and #2 the edgehogger invincible, and in #3 the recovering character makes it onto the ledge. #4 is the only one that can be changed. Instead of the recovering character falling past the edge, they will now instead "trump" the edgehogger.
Air time and accumulated damage will determine your period of invincibility while hanging on an edge: Once again, I agree with what GooeyHeat said.
Basically, less airtime and/or less damage would equal less invincibility frames, while more air time and more damage would equal more invincibility frames. Also, when I say "air time", I'm specifically referring to time spent in the air, and nothing else. Time spent grabbing the edge or tethering to it does not count. Furthermore, this air time counter gets reset the moment either the character touches the ground or when they grab the edge (tethering would just halt the counter, instead of resetting it).
I have no idea what kind of formula Sakurai is using to calculate the amount of time a character remains invincible when hanging on a ledge, but I think it's probable that air time would have more weight to it than damage taken. In fact, damage taken would most likely have a minuscule effect on the amount of invincibility frames until you reach death percentages (like 130%+). It needs to be like that or else people can abuse grabbing the edge for invincibility when at high percentages without needing to be in the air for a long period of time.
Furthermore, there's gonna obviously be a cap on the effect air time and damage taken have on the amount of invincibility frames. Otherwise, characters would remain invincible for far too long. This is a complete shot in the dark, but I'm going to assume that at least 6 seconds of continuous air time with damage at 250%+ will give you the maximum amount of invincibility. How much that is is anyone's guess, though.
Grab controls will no longer be affected by whether you have above or below 100% damage: In previous games, there were two different kinds of moves that you can do when on a ledge. One when you're below 100%, and one when you are above or equal to 100%. The moves available to you when you are below 100% were always fast, but they were usually weak (in the case of the ledge attack) and had little invincibility frames. The moves when you are at or above 100% are typically the complete opposite of that, in which they are slow, but do a lot of damage (again, in the case of the ledge attack) and have a decent amount of invincibility.
Since he said these moves are no longer affected by percentage (and I also don't think that Sakurai would take out any moves), I'm led to believe that the player can decide which moves they want to do. This opens a lot more possibilities to the recovering player. Most likely, a quick tap of the appropriate button will do the <100% version, while holding the button will do the >=100% version.
EDIT: AND PALUTENA GOT LEAKED AS I WAS TYPING THIS ergjtrnhiubytkuthtr
Trumping ledge grabs: I think what GooeyHeat said is accurate. In fact, it's the only thing that makes sense in this context. Think about it, there have been only four possible situations when a recovering character interacts with a character at the edge (ignoring tether recoveries):
1) The edgehogger is invincible, and the recovering character attempts to hit them with an attack. Due to the invincibility, the edgehogger stays on the edge and the recovering character falls.
2) The edgehogger is invincible, and the recovering character falls towards the ledge without doing an attack. The edgehogger remains on and the recovering character falls.
3) The edgehogger is vulnerable, and the recovering character hits them with an attack while recovering and grabs the ledge.
4) The edgehogger is vulnerable, and the recovering character falls to the ledge without throwing out an attack. The recovering character falls.
#4 is the only one that makes sense in the context of trumping. In #1 and #2 the edgehogger invincible, and in #3 the recovering character makes it onto the ledge. #4 is the only one that can be changed. Instead of the recovering character falling past the edge, they will now instead "trump" the edgehogger.
Air time and accumulated damage will determine your period of invincibility while hanging on an edge: Once again, I agree with what GooeyHeat said.
Basically, less airtime and/or less damage would equal less invincibility frames, while more air time and more damage would equal more invincibility frames. Also, when I say "air time", I'm specifically referring to time spent in the air, and nothing else. Time spent grabbing the edge or tethering to it does not count. Furthermore, this air time counter gets reset the moment either the character touches the ground or when they grab the edge (tethering would just halt the counter, instead of resetting it).
I have no idea what kind of formula Sakurai is using to calculate the amount of time a character remains invincible when hanging on a ledge, but I think it's probable that air time would have more weight to it than damage taken. In fact, damage taken would most likely have a minuscule effect on the amount of invincibility frames until you reach death percentages (like 130%+). It needs to be like that or else people can abuse grabbing the edge for invincibility when at high percentages without needing to be in the air for a long period of time.
Furthermore, there's gonna obviously be a cap on the effect air time and damage taken have on the amount of invincibility frames. Otherwise, characters would remain invincible for far too long. This is a complete shot in the dark, but I'm going to assume that at least 6 seconds of continuous air time with damage at 250%+ will give you the maximum amount of invincibility. How much that is is anyone's guess, though.
Grab controls will no longer be affected by whether you have above or below 100% damage: In previous games, there were two different kinds of moves that you can do when on a ledge. One when you're below 100%, and one when you are above or equal to 100%. The moves available to you when you are below 100% were always fast, but they were usually weak (in the case of the ledge attack) and had little invincibility frames. The moves when you are at or above 100% are typically the complete opposite of that, in which they are slow, but do a lot of damage (again, in the case of the ledge attack) and have a decent amount of invincibility.
Since he said these moves are no longer affected by percentage (and I also don't think that Sakurai would take out any moves), I'm led to believe that the player can decide which moves they want to do. This opens a lot more possibilities to the recovering player. Most likely, a quick tap of the appropriate button will do the <100% version, while holding the button will do the >=100% version.
EDIT: AND PALUTENA GOT LEAKED AS I WAS TYPING THIS ergjtrnhiubytkuthtr
Smashman45
Member
If fake, I commend whoever made this. Damn convincing.
In comparison with the AR model, I guess the supposed Smash model looks less.....bright? I don't know, the hair looks less "shiny" on the Smash model...
In comparison with the AR model, I guess the supposed Smash model looks less.....bright? I don't know, the hair looks less "shiny" on the Smash model...
Whiskeymatt
Member
Eh, I don't know. It just looks like there are "chunks" missing, especially down that right cheek, that aren't missing in other character models. If it's a fake it's a really damn good one, so much so that I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be real. I'm mostly just commenting on something that jumped out at me.
DisconnectD
Member
Well this is SURREAL. What do you think the chances are of finding fault in the images are, if they haven't been spotted yet? Some of you have legit good eyes for spotting fakes.
SenorArdilla
Member
Here you are:
They really need to fix up his in-game model. The past couple pictures of him looked really bad.
MrSaturn99
Member
I DON'T BELIEVE THIS MAN.
why would a hud-less shot leak? it's fake. palutena will be in the game, though.
If this is the case... it's not really a big change at all. Damn near the entire cast recovers with a special move that hits the opponent (Marth's UpB, Falco's Side B, MK's side b, etc)
So if this new mechanic only works when the character grabbing the ledge runs out of invincibility, they're getting hit off the ledge anyways. It only helps the recovering character in the rare situation where the character on the stage grabs the edge to edgehog when the off-stage character is close enough to the stage to grab ledge with their double jump. In other words, never. Edge hogging in Brawl is used when you are reading the opponent's recovery, and snipe the edge at precisely the right moment, when your invincibility is in tact. That doesn't look like it's going to change in Smash 4, despite this new mechanic.
This helps characters like Link, Ivysaur, Samus and Olimar the most because of their tether recoveries. Assuming this new mechanic transfers to tethers, which it absolutely should. Or, change tethers back to the way they worked in Melee (can grab to any part of the stage instead of auto snapping to the edge).
If this is the case... it's not really a big change at all. Damn near the entire cast recovers with a special move that hits the opponent (Marth's UpB, Falco's Side B, MK's side b, etc)
So if this new mechanic only works when the character grabbing the ledge runs out of invincibility, they're getting hit off the ledge anyways. It only helps the recovering character in the rare situation where the character on the stage grabs the edge to edgehog when the off-stage character is close enough to the stage to grab ledge with their double jump. In other words, never. Edge hogging in Brawl is used when you are reading the opponent's recovery, and snipe the edge at precisely the right moment, when your invincibility is in tact. That doesn't look like it's going to change in Smash 4, despite this new mechanic.
This helps characters like Link, Ivysaur, Samus and Olimar the most because of their tether recoveries. Assuming this new mechanic transfers to tethers, which it absolutely should. Or, change tethers back to the way they worked in Melee (can grab to any part of the stage instead of auto snapping to the edge).
Hours Left
Member
The Palutena leak(?) looks smashing. (Heh.)
Please be real.
Please be real.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
nice writeup
People are already saying it looks different than that on here and on the smashboardsAwwww.
Vampirolol
Member
Now imagine if that user with the Megaman avatar didn't resist and found a way to leak this. Well if that's the case, thanks!
C.Olimar788
Member
Having just checked the idol in question, it's not. The animation is similar, but her hand is in a completely different position when she stretches out her staff, and the face on the Uprising model is extremely different from her face on the "leak" pictures. Also, her halo in the leak is significantly smaller than the one she has in Uprising.
If it's a fake, it wasn't made by superimposing Uprising models onto Smash 4 material, that much is for sure.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
What? Yea I want to see the reciepts!
Hours Left
Member
That's the one thing that's bothering me. Her face does look off.
MrSaturn99
Member
Just checked it out too. The hair is also totally different.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Roundness at the top of the staff is even more blocky in the "Fake" shot... what gives here? UGH..!
Also, doesn't seem odd that these seem to be taken from White (or Animal Crossing) 3DS XL? I'd imagine those would be taken from a developer unit, if real (I could be wrong, though)?
From a shopper's perspective that would make things easier to fake.
Whiskeymatt
Member
Does her staff have some sort of ring/grip in it? Because if not, that just looks off to me. Sorry, haven't gotten around to playing Uprising yet, so I wouldn't know.
PaulExcellent
Member
Just checked that shit. Her whole arm is in a different angle in the idol, and the staff's pointy end thing is not visible when she extends it, but on that screenshot you can see it.
Edit: The staff is shorter, too. If this is a fake, I would be seriously impressed.
Edit: The staff is shorter, too. If this is a fake, I would be seriously impressed.
Masked Man
I said wow
Just checked the JPN Miiverse post to see if that would shed any light on the situation, and here's what I came up with:
- In the picture, Mario was grabbing the ledge, but Link came in and stole it from him through this new "ledge priority"
- The period of ledgegrab invincibility changes depending on amount of accumulated damage and time spent in the air
- There is no longer any difference between a character's actions when above or below 100% damage
Snarfington
Member
The staff does look different.
I want to believe just so there's some new character info what's wrong with me
solomon
Member
I was right about to type this, I don't think Sakurai would let staff walk around with the game like that.
DisconnectD
Member
The shape of the base of her staff is very different in the leaked image, as well as the prongs And crystal sphere being smaller. It looks like a legitimately different model to me..
fredrancour
Member
If Palutena's a fake we have a new record for "Most Effort Put into a Fake Smash Screenshot."
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
first point is slightly more clear I guess
It doesn't really look like they shopped in poses from Uprising either. Take the second image for example.
They barely look like the same model. Pretty impressive fake if you ask me.
CALL OF TRAINWIZ
It has the XL's speakers.
TheCongressman1
Member
Something nifty is happening? True or not, I always like the mystery.
Vampirolol
Member
I'm looking at Mario and something looks strange, like the head feels too detailed but at the same time blurry and he is closer to the screen. He also looks too short.