LOL! To bad it took me a while to get back here. I grew up in a developing country thank you very much. Not having "stovetops" and "ovens" does not equal not having a kitchen like the OP mentioned. You really think people don't have kitchens? They may not have kitchen like the one you have but they certainly have a place to cook, unlike OP. Of course you are now backpedaling and you say "low income living arrangement in a developing country." But saying developing countries don't have kitchens is moronic and ignorant.
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What is the best way to eat high protein food without a kitchen?
- Thread starter Estellex
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LOL! To bad it took me a while to get back here. I grew up in a developing country thank you very much. Not having "stovetops" and "ovens" does not equal not having a kitchen like the OP mentioned. You really think people don't have kitchens? They may not have kitchen like the one you have but they certainly have a place to cook, unlike OP. Of course you are now backpedaling and you say "low income living arrangement in a developing country." But saying developing countries don't have kitchens is moronic and ignorant.
infinitys_7th
Member
Cheese sticks, nuts, and microwaved bacon come to mind.
If you were allowed to get a countertop stove eye, quick scrambled eggs, fried eggs, and hardboiled eggs would be great too. Eggs are dirt cheap. I think there are plug-in boilers which could skirt the hot plate problem.
If you were allowed to get a countertop stove eye, quick scrambled eggs, fried eggs, and hardboiled eggs would be great too. Eggs are dirt cheap. I think there are plug-in boilers which could skirt the hot plate problem.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I watched the documentary called What the Health on Netflix and thought about this thread.
It says that protein doesn't originally come from the animal. It comes from plants. You'll see large apes eating plants while your carnivore are often small creatures.
There's probably more to this than I'm explaining or telling you right now. But it had me believing a lot of what is talked about and researched.
It says that protein doesn't originally come from the animal. It comes from plants. You'll see large apes eating plants while your carnivore are often small creatures.
There's probably more to this than I'm explaining or telling you right now. But it had me believing a lot of what is talked about and researched.
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Beard of the Forest
The No. 1 cause of forest fires is trees.
I mean, what's wrong with just getting a George Foreman grill or something? When I was in similar circumstances I also barbecued a lot.
longdi
Banned
I think sardines are healthier, being bottom feeders and canned whole.
Olive oil or Mediterranean mixed sardines > tuna chunks
Corrik
Member
I have one, but we like don't know anything to make in it that is not expensive. Teach me what to do lol
DavidGzz
Member
No food is fattening if someone is on top of their calorie intake. Whats wrong with sugar? They are just carbs..
DavidGzz
Member
14g of protein is pretty low when you're getting in upwards of 600 calories. A good ratio is 10 grams per 150 calories.
Avoid nutrition documentaries on Netflix. I haven't seen it myself but that one, in particular, is a laughing stock among actual experts.
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WaterAstro
Member
Don't people just jack up on whey powder?
lachesis
Member
Unfortunately I don't have one at home! I am thinking about getting one though - I had to choose between sous vide or this, and got sous vide instead. But depending on the budget - I'd say try some of these
https://blog.cheapism.com/instant-pot-recipes-18474/
OP: never even thought about it, but get a sous vide and do chicken breast, or boiled egg or whatnot. Just don't do the red meat unless you have a torch (probably not allowed in your place I assume - but then again it's not an appliance...)
nephilimdj
Member
in Australia, a 180gram of tuna is like $1.50 for home brand, 35g of protein
Put it on ramen, rice, salad, omlette whatever
Put it on ramen, rice, salad, omlette whatever
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infinitys_7th
Member
Sugar is not really all that important. It is mostly useless in the body beyond producing glycogen. Added sugar, like in most protein bars, is just empty calories. Unless you sprint or use burst energy frequently, glycogen is not really a concern.
You can get all necessary metabolic precursors from lipids and proteins. Lipids (fats, cholesterol, etc.) provide energy more efficiently than sugars, and feed into several anabolic processes. Proteins get catabolized into amino acids, which can be used to build new proteins, converted into sufficient amounts of glucose for anabolism, or used for energy if needed.
On the other hand, sugars are almost entirely used for energy, either immediate or stored as glycogen. They also promote a poor gut biome by giving gut flora easy food. Hydrolyzable carbs are broken down into sugars, and are associated with healthier nutrient dense foods with associated nonhydrolyzable carbs. Nonhydrolyzable carbs are fermented in the gut, contribute to a healthy gut biome (look into fecal transplants to see how important this is) and beneficial fermentation products. There is no reason to ever eat simple glucose or sucrose or other simple sugars, especially ones added to food.
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DavidGzz
Member
You contradict yourself in one post. You call them empty calories and then go on to say they are stored as glycogen. That stored glycogen provides energy. That glycogen is muscle sparing and gives the most efficient source of energy. You realize the sugar in breakfast cereal is used by your body the same way the sugar in fruit is, or no? While no, sugar is not a required macro like protein and fats, it is not useless or have no reason to be consumed. Bodybuilders, athletes, marathon runners/bicyclists all consume sugar and other carbs because it is beneficial.
Where are you getting that fats are more efficient energy than carbs? Keto weekly? Science disagrees from the new research I've read by Brad Schoenfeld. It was actually measured.
infinitys_7th
Member
Glycogen is unnecessary beyond certain activities. The average office worker does not need glycogen, nor do marathon runners or body builders (of which there are many who do low carb successfully). Glycogen has nothing to do with endurance, only burst activities.
Why should I eat sugar, as someone who exercises moderately? Seems better just to load up on fat - some cheese sticks and berries or bacon and eggs in the morning, nuts and pork rinds for a snack, and fatty food with mixed vegetables for lunch and dinner. Much more filling for me, and I am not missing nutrients.
Even if I did eat carbs, there is no reason to eat sugared foods, including candy bar protein bars. Eat whole grains and non-starchy vegetables, which have a blend of carbs and nutrients and are better for the gut.
One guy is not science. I could play article-matching all day, but I'd rather not.
DavidGzz
Member
Wait, glycogen is not used except in sprinting? Where are you getting that info? Also, there are plenty of reasons for me to eat those things. They are delicious and will not affect my fat loss when my calories are controlled. They help me remain sane while dieting since I love the taste. You only live once and I'm not living a life of deprivation when it isn't necessary.
infinitys_7th
Member
Ketogenic diets have neuroprotective effects, are noninflammatory, and do not stress the insulin control system, which mechanistically prevent T2 diabetes and Alzheimer's. It is hard to form toxic glucose deposits when the body barely has any, and equally as hard to form plaque on non-inflamed vessels.
Beyond just being more satisfying and equally nutritious, of course.
infinitys_7th
Member
Because people work out and run marathons just fine without glycogen stores? One person doing something proves it is possible.
Glycogen is the first energy source for the body. It gives an initial advantage, but gets used up quickly. After that, more energy-dense sources are preferable, and after keto-adaption the body can use those sources consistently throughout exertion.
DavidGzz
Member
Extreme carb restriction is no life for me. Carbs are life. You must be watching videos from that charlatan, Dr. Fung. He's just another Dr. Oz promising grand things with keto with no scientific backing. Just theories. The only benefit I've heard from Keto is reducing seizures in people who are prone to them. Type 2 diabetes is avoided by being healthy and avoiding obesity. You should try visiting examine.com. Solid info with several scientific references.
infinitys_7th
Member
T2 Diabetes and Alzheimer's are inevitable with diets that allow insulin spikes. Some people are more, ah, resistant to developing insulin resistance, but the degradation will happen eventually.
I have my results from keto (down 140 pounds, great health, and contentment with my diet), so I tend to promote it. All I said originally is that sugar (monos and dis) is unnecessary because someone started defending high protein candy bar junk foods. Your body needs roughly 20g of glucose a day, but it will make it out of AAs if you do not consume glucose.
DavidGzz
Member
Really? So why do I not have diabetes. I eat soo much sugar. I actually have a popular thread in my fitness pal where I ate almost nothing but so called junk food for 10 months and got into great shape. Please stop with the fear mongering, T2 diabetes is sure as hell not inevitable in most peoples diets. Obesity raises your chances greatly but you can be in great shape despite what you eat
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/e...me-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it
When people call certain foods junk food I tend to defend them. To me junk food is butter coffee, bacon and excess butter, to you it's sugar. Actually to be honest I don't believe in junk food. There are just less nutrient-filled foods.
Insulin suppresses appetite and protein is a potent stimulator of insulin as well. You have insulin all wrong. https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
This shows with scientific backing that a high protein low carb meal raises insulin more than a low protein high carb meal. So now high protein also causes diabetes?
Great job on the weight loss but it seems to have brainwashed you. CICO is all that is needed to lose fat. If you prefer using keto, then do so but it's no different than any other method. All diets must adhere to CICO. Some people just find certain diets help them adhere better.
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DavidGzz
Member
This is actually great timing, this study was just completed and this article is from today.
"A year-long randomized clinical trial has found that a low-fat diet and a low-carb diet produced similar weight loss and improvements in metabolic health markers. Furthermore, insulin production and tested genes had no impact on predicting weight loss success or failure. Thus, you should choose your diet based on personal preferences, health goals, and sustainability."
https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/
"A year-long randomized clinical trial has found that a low-fat diet and a low-carb diet produced similar weight loss and improvements in metabolic health markers. Furthermore, insulin production and tested genes had no impact on predicting weight loss success or failure. Thus, you should choose your diet based on personal preferences, health goals, and sustainability."
https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/
High protein diet will overwork your liver - you'll get acne, just saying... Cholesterol is healthy - don't believe the bandwagon effect of perpetuating lies... Sugar when stored becomes triglycerides(unhealthy) unless your glycogen stores are simultaneously empty - meaning that you are metabolically active and not just another couch potato - triggering oxidant damage just like frostbite in all your arteries.
infinitys_7th
Member
Why did you link a study that has nothing to do with ketogenic diets to try to diminish the idea of ketogenic diets?
They were barely on a ketogenic diet for 2 months of a year-long study, and only at the very beginning of it. It also sounds like the researchers only restricted carbohydrate consumption and did not necessary adjust the macros properly - if the subjects were eating large amounts of protein rather than fat, they never actually reached ketosis due to gluconeogenesis converting the protein into glucose in sufficient amounts to replenish liver glycogen. They also have no evidence that anyone was actually in a ketogenic state, merely doing "low carb".
Practically all studies on dietary ketosis do not actually research ketosis, but merely Atkins-style "low carb" with its frequent cheats and tolerance for junk foods rather than reliance on high-fiber plant-based sources of carbs (cruciferous vegetables, leafy vegetables, squash, nuts, berries, etc.).
Although, hilariously, the study does say that there is no difference between low-fat dieting and Atkins, so there is that. They are apparently equivalently good at generating weight loss. Now if someone would just actually study ketogenic diets. . .
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DavidGzz
Member
So wait, you think that despite equal calories, keto would result in more fat loss? You never mentioned that. You only mentioned the health benefits previously. You realize that fat sustains life and if a certain macro setup made it harder to sustain that fat it would be inferior? So going into ketosis would cause the people dying from starvation to die even faster? Not all countries have readily available food, we must alert the countries with starving residents to make sure they avoid ketosis since it magically causes more weight loss than the calorie intake would suggest.
Here is the reason you may lose more fat with ketosis, you have fewer food options available. The same way a person would eat less at a buffet if the variety of that buffet was reduced. Nothing about ketosis will break the laws of physics. If you personally need less options to lose fat, that is totally personal.
I understand you are a keto fan at this time since it is the diet that helped you stay on track with your caloric goals but I myself have tried it along with any other diet you can think of out there since 1999. I've also counted calories during that time and fat loss has always been consistent with my calorie intake despite the macro setup. The only difference I've noticed is that when my protein is higher, I gain or maintain the most amount of muscle and look the best after a cut.
You should avoid giving advice on nutrition when you have no idea. Please provide some science to support your claims or avoid giving false information. In a caloric deficit, you will not gain fat despite your glycogen stores being full. Fat is much more likely to convert to fat than carbs are yet it will not given a caloric deficit as well. Maybe read some science instead of parroting theories from low carb pushers and netflix documentaries.
Here is the reason you may lose more fat with ketosis, you have fewer food options available. The same way a person would eat less at a buffet if the variety of that buffet was reduced. Nothing about ketosis will break the laws of physics. If you personally need less options to lose fat, that is totally personal.
I understand you are a keto fan at this time since it is the diet that helped you stay on track with your caloric goals but I myself have tried it along with any other diet you can think of out there since 1999. I've also counted calories during that time and fat loss has always been consistent with my calorie intake despite the macro setup. The only difference I've noticed is that when my protein is higher, I gain or maintain the most amount of muscle and look the best after a cut.
You should avoid giving advice on nutrition when you have no idea. Please provide some science to support your claims or avoid giving false information. In a caloric deficit, you will not gain fat despite your glycogen stores being full. Fat is much more likely to convert to fat than carbs are yet it will not given a caloric deficit as well. Maybe read some science instead of parroting theories from low carb pushers and netflix documentaries.
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DavidGzz
Member
I suggest anyone wanting the truth on nutrition to join a board that has hundreds of members that know the science behind it like myfitnesspal or bodybuilding.com and ask your questions there. infinity, I don't know if knowing the truth would be helpful or detrimental for you. I mean, when I was enlightened it was kind of like a double-edged sword. On one hand, when I knew I could stay in shape eating whatever I wanted it was life-changing, but at the same time some of the foods I choose are super hard to not overindulge in.
My thread, a guy on youtube who's channel is called abs and icecream, a nutrition expert named Mark Haub, Downsize me with a 50+ year old bodybuilder all prove that despite high carb, processed foods, a calorie deficit is all that is needed to be in shape and improves all health parameters. Mark Haub actually had tests done before and after his vending machine diet.
My thread, a guy on youtube who's channel is called abs and icecream, a nutrition expert named Mark Haub, Downsize me with a 50+ year old bodybuilder all prove that despite high carb, processed foods, a calorie deficit is all that is needed to be in shape and improves all health parameters. Mark Haub actually had tests done before and after his vending machine diet.
infinitys_7th
Member
I never said that regarding calories. I mostly talked about the other benefits. I'm interested in the neuroprotective, anti-inflammatory effects of a ketogenic diet at this point. Mechanistically preventing Alzheimer's and T2 diabetes, my family is disposed to, is a huge benefit for me. It's hard for toxic glucose deposits to form when you don't eat it. I also like the greater satiety the diet brings, and the constant energy and clearheadedness.
Why do I have "fewer options"? Fruit is naturally only available in a short time span - it was never really a constant option before cold storage or sugared pastes. Otherwise, I'm avoiding starchy vegetables. There are plenty of choices beyond that - my plate generally has 2-3 plant (or fungi)-based foods. Bread and grains are not really worth having in your diet nutritionally, and there are plenty of substitutes for them.
I've been doing keto for 3 years now, minus about 5 months when I lived in a hotel in a rural area with nothing beyond fast food and fried chicken for a 45-minute radius. I gained about 30 lbs during that time, which has taken FOREVER to start coming back off, but I am still down about 140 lbs from my heaviest (380). When I first started doing keto, I lost about 20 lbs/month effortlessly until I hit 280. After about three weeks of initial adjustment (a lot of diarrhea and digestive problems, likely from radically altering my gut biome and the shock of denying sugar addiction), I was perfectly fine. Never felt hungry or tired or like I was lacking anything. Never really looked back, aside from that 5 months. I do cheat at holidays, but I get sick when I eat carby stuff so I have to be careful.
Also, nothing mtcn77 said was wrong. High protein with energetically-inadequate carbs/fat is hard on your liver because heavy gluconeogenesis is harmful. Dietary cholesterol is rarely a concern for anyone because cholesterolemia is mostly tied to genetics. Glucose causes vascular inflammation, which when accompanied by a fatty diet leads to vascular disease.
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infinitys_7th
Member
I actually used MFP to track my macros way back when I first started. I have most of my recipes carb contents memorized at this point though, and when I eat out I eat simply (pull off breading on fried chicken, get naked unbreaded wings, get steak, get mushrooms/broccoli/asparagus/etc.).
And when I have to eat fast food, a bunless condiment-less bacon cheeseburger is never more than 3-4 carbs with American fake cheese.
You are talking about immediate results, not the morbidity that comes with constant inflammation and insulin stress.
DavidGzz
Member
No, he is wrong saying that you store fat unless you are active. You can lay in bed all day eating Twinkies and not add fat if you're in a calorie deficit. In all of my years of reading about nutrition, I've never seen an expert talk about an over worked liver on high protein diet so excuse me if a post on a gaming website with no source cited doesn't convince me.
As far as fewer options, are you serious? Keto is insanely restrictive. I just went shopping for groceries, if I were on keto I'd have to take 80% of the products I bought back. The milk, bread, bagels, cookies, pizza spaghetti noodles, apples, bananas, cereal, etc. How odd that you would bring that up.
As far as fewer options, are you serious? Keto is insanely restrictive. I just went shopping for groceries, if I were on keto I'd have to take 80% of the products I bought back. The milk, bread, bagels, cookies, pizza spaghetti noodles, apples, bananas, cereal, etc. How odd that you would bring that up.
infinitys_7th
Member
You missed the condition - without sufficient carbs/fat for energy production, a high protein diet is dangerous. See rabbit starvation.
Keto is not really any more restrictive than a low-fat diet. I can make virtually anything you described in a low-carb manner, beyond the fruit and cereal. Milk can be substituted with diluted cream. I make bread and bagels using various recipes every couple of weeks as I want them. I do low-carb desserts about once a week. I make flat bread pizzas. I make noodles (and use substitutes, like spaghetti squash and spaghettified vegetables).
DavidGzz
Member
I didn't see him mention that high protein is bad if you omit carbs/fat. He only attacked a high protein diet going by his post.
I wasn't comparing keto to any other restriction as I diet without them besides watching overall calories. I was comparing it to IIFYM. I eat what I want in moderation.
Bottom line, at a grocery store, you have to walk by a majority of their product. I can choose what I want, that is what I mean by fewer options.
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infinitys_7th
Member
Post #80, last paragraph.
TBH, everyone should walk by most of the products. Most food in a grocery store is trash designed to appeal to people (made hungry by the scent of the bakery) as they meander the poorly-organized and oft-shuffled aisles.
infinitys_7th
Member
Grocery stores are designed with whole foods (produce, meats, dairy products) on the outer walls and processed foods in the middle aisles. You are never going to find Gushers and Fruit Roll Ups on the outer wall. Granted, I have to get baking supplies occasionally, but I rarely go down the central aisles unless I want something specific.
How do I get my fiber ? Vegetables (broccoli, spinach, green beans, asparagus, kale, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, turnips, etc.). Berries. Nuts. Mushrooms. The bread I eat is made from nut flours, so it is loaded with fiber as well. Fiber is really easy to come by, actually, and is crucial to promoting a healthy gut biome and optimizing the fermentation products it produces. The fatty acids produced in the colon are very beneficial.
If you eat a sugar-heavy diet, the flora which most efficiently ferment fiber (i.e. nonhydrolyzable carbs) will be displaced by ones which prefer monosaccharides (the products of the stomach hydrolyzing sugar) and you will lose yield of the fermentation products.
The digestive system is a chemical plant - predigestion occurs in the mouth to increase surface area, the stomach acidically hydrolyzes most of the food into monomers, the small intestines extract the monomers and other compounds, and the colon acts as a bioreactor to allow bacteria to further convert the remaining compounds into useful poducts before discharge.
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DavidGzz
Member
The good thing about keto is that it helps people dramatically reduce their calorie intake without forcing them to count their calories. Like other elimination diets. Someone who is obese needs to make a dramatic change. You either count calories to make sure you're on track, watch your carbs, or eat "clean".
I have a friend who stays in about the same shape I do for the most part. He says that counting calories for him would be maddening, so instead he eats "clean". We both lose the same amount of weight usually in the same amount of time in the spring. Our diets are totally different. Right now we are both the same height and weight with the same amount of muscle overall.
At the end of the day, calories are what is important. How you go about sticking to a deficit or surplus depending on your goal, is just a personal choice.
I have a friend who stays in about the same shape I do for the most part. He says that counting calories for him would be maddening, so instead he eats "clean". We both lose the same amount of weight usually in the same amount of time in the spring. Our diets are totally different. Right now we are both the same height and weight with the same amount of muscle overall.
At the end of the day, calories are what is important. How you go about sticking to a deficit or surplus depending on your goal, is just a personal choice.
Alter_Fridge
Member
Not required at all if you are hitting your protein macros with whole food. Doesn't matter if you can't smash protein straight after a workout, just as long as you are getting the whole lot in at some point during the day. The 'anabolic window' is bro science really
DavidGzz
Member
Yep, I haven't had a protein shake in a long time. So much bro science will never go away, it makes these supplement companies a lot of money. BCAA's are one that are still prevalent. They make no difference when protein macros are hit.
Alter_Fridge
Member
Having a high fat count alone doesn't make a food "fattening" on its own. That was the thinking from the 1980s which lead to the low fat high sugar craze which was 10 times more fattening in real terms.
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Alter_Fridge
Member
Yep
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