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Drama ‘Star Wars’ Editor Marcia Lucas Slams Kathleen Kennedy and J.J. Abrams: ‘They Don’t Have a Clue’

Sep 13, 2009
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Not a huge SW fan but there are 2 major things they need to do:
  • leave behind ALL the fan favourite core characters/families (what they've been doing since the Phantom Menace is limiting and creatively bankrupt)
  • Stop trying to make a trilogy out of everything (there's nothing wrong with stand-alone movies, it's easier to focus on making 1 good movie than 3)
But these are general Hollywood problems so I'm not expecting much.
 
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ManaByte

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Not a huge SW fan but there are 2 major things they need to do:
  • leave behind ALL the fan favourite core characters/families (what they've been doing since the Phantom Menace is limiting and creatively bankrupt)
  • Stop trying to make a trilogy out of everything (there's nothing wrong with stand-alone movies, it's easier to focus on making 1 good movie than 3)
But these are general Hollywood problems so I'm not expecting much.
That’s exactly what they’re doing. Both Rogue Squadron and Taika’s movies are set in different time periods from the Skywalker saga. And they’re standalones.
 

Dazrael

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I had only seen this movie once and did not remember the fight scenes being this terrible. One guy in red just turns around and runs away on the left and one guy on the right just staight up aims for the light saber when kylo has it in the ground. I kind of now want to rewatch the fight scenes in slow motion to see where else it looks silly.

More on topic as others have said yeah, water is wet.
Yes! I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed the guy aiming for Kylo’s lightsaber. Such stupid fight choreography. And why is Kylo stabbing his lightsaber into the ground anyway? It serves no purpose in the fight other than for that particular bad guy to aim for it.

God the ST is rubbish.
 
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FunkMiller

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I feel it’s just best to accept that other than the OT, Mando, and R1, all Star Wars is dogshit. The prequels were dogshit, the sequels are dogshit. Everything that comes from
now on will probably be dogshit too. But it’ll never go away because children and angry nerd fans are idiots, who just eat that shit up.

I’m just glad I was a kid when Star Wars was good.
 

Artoris

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I feel it’s just best to accept that other than the OT, Mando, and R1, all Star Wars is dogshit. The prequels were dogshit, the sequels are dogshit. Everything that comes from
now on will probably be dogshit too. But it’ll never go away because children and angry nerd fans are idiots, who just eat that shit up.

I’m just glad I was a kid when Star Wars was good.
Some parts of The prequels were quite good
 
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Madflavor

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No, they see it as THE reason. They've been trying hard to remedy it. They started these animated YouTube shorts with an action figure line connected to them in order to introduce kids to the Star Wars characters, but then people on the internet flipped out that they were kiddie and started bitching about Kathleen Kennedy destroying the franchise again.

I mean even if they do that doesn't mean they're correct. It's totally possible and not that uncommon for people to draw the wrong conclusions with the right data in front of them. The fact that Youtube animated shorts was at one point their answer to remedy the problem further proves the franchise was in the wrong hands. Also I don't believe Iger really gave a fuck about fans thinking too many films made the franchise not special anymore. If Solo: A Star Wars film did great at the box office, they most likely would've moved forward with a sequel and some of the other side story films they had planned at the time. You know they freaked the fuck out when not only did TLJ made $700 million less than TFA, but Solo couldn't even crack over $400 mil. The brand was damaged, and they knew it.

Young generations aren't going to be in their 30s and 40s and look back fondly on the years 2015 - 2019 as when the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy came out. They're going to remember the MCU. They're not going to reminisce about Rey, Finn, Rose or Poe. They're going to remember heroes like Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. As for villains, Thanos was a way more iconic, memorable, and better written villain than Kylo Ren or whatever the fuck Snoke was supposed to be.
 

sol_bad

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Young generations aren't going to be in their 30s and 40s and look back fondly on the years 2015 - 2019 as when the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy came out. They're going to remember the MCU. They're not going to reminisce about Rey, Finn, Rose or Poe. They're going to remember heroes like Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. As for villains, Thanos was a way more iconic, memorable, and better written villain than Kylo Ren or whatever the fuck Snoke was supposed to be.

My neices couldn't finish the original trilogy, they were bored as fuck. They enjoyed Force Awakens far more. They were 10 and 12 when I first tried showing them the films.
I'm sure there are many more kids out there like that.
 

sol_bad

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They might have enjoyed the prequel trilogy but they were already so bored of A New Hope that they had no interest in trying them.
The saw Force Awakens because night out with uncle and free dinner and free movie tickets.
lol
 

gatti-man

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I’ve actually talked to people at Lucafilm about this. The reason is because Marvel was able to cultivate a very young and loyal fan base over ten years, and Lucasfilm couldn’t do that in 40.
Oh bullshit. The reason is quality films that build towards something real and not assgrabbed. Star Wars has some of the most dedicated fans ever but there was no plan and everything was rushed to absurdity with Star Wars. We didn’t have continuity or films based on existing quality stories. That’s why marvel is so great. Every film builds on the other cherry picking quality stories and refining them for movies.

Star Wars could never match that throwing out the EU and ass grabbing a bunch of new people. Solo and rogue one both one shots that didn’t forward the existing plot. Huge massive mistakes abound with the handling of Star Wars that have nothing to do with the Ip and if Lucas arts can’t see that Star Wars is truly fucked.

making stand alones with no focus is going to relegate Star Wars to Disney plus status until Disney decides to make quality, movie worthy stories that go somewhere. Give people a reason to care.
 
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PaddyOCanager

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No they have the metrics internally that prove it. Marvel did it because there were at least two (sometimes more) Marvel movies every year for a decade. So you have a generation of kids who grew up with a constant onslaught of Marvel. Star Wars didn't really have that. It was 18 years between the OT and the PT and then another 10 years between the PT and ST. You had Clone Wars on TV, but that's not the same as multiple HUGE movies on the big screen every year. Lucasfilm wanted to do that with Star Wars, with a movie every year, but again people bitched and complained that it didn't make Star Wars "special" anymore and Iger caved into that mindset. So now they're going to try it with Disney+ by having MULTIPLE series every year starting in 2022 when there will be THREE Star Wars series: Obi-Wan, Andor, Mando S3.
That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read and I don't believe you. I have faith that Disney isn't that simpleminded in interpreting their own successes and failures. The MCU exists because Favreau made Iron Man, and people in charge were smart enough to copy/paste its formula over and over with everything revolving around Iron Man as its central axis. Iron Man was competently made, had a strong likable character who just so happened to stay true to the character's lore, respected the fanbase, and established exactly what to expect any time a customer went to see Marvel content moving forward (visually, tonally, its treatment of its characters, etc). No one gave a SHIT about Iron Man until that movie....so don't try and tell me Star Wars had to make up ground or whatever. Fucking nonsense.

Disney Star Wars is currently all over the place between the sequels, the "other" movies, the High Republic, the videogames, the cartoons, the books, the comics, the theme park....I mean Jesus Christ WTF HAS BEEN GOING ON. If Disney is smart, they will recognize they have their Iron Man for the Star Wars brand. The Mandalorian is their axis moving forward - whether you have stories about Jedi, pilots, troopers....I don't give a fuck, this is how you roll out from here. Just like the MCU can have stories about Gods, sorcerers, super soldiers, space raccoons, etc and they all still feel like Marvel content - you can do the same with Star Wars. Your interpretation of both brands past and present situations is complete bullshit.
 

ManaByte

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Star Wars could never match that throwing out the EU and ass grabbing a bunch of new people.
The EU was always dogshit.
 
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gatti-man

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The EU was always dogshit.
As a whole yes. But there are great stories in there that could have been made movies. Also the EU is where fan expectations were. Saying “nah fuck that let’s do our own” then arguably making even worse stories……like that’s not a recipe for success at all.

in fact they were overtly proud of going counter expectations which is like being proud of slitting your own throat if you don’t bring the heat.
 
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sol_bad

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Oh bullshit. The reason is quality films that build towards something real and not assgrabbed. Star Wars has some of the most dedicated fans ever but there was no plan and everything was rushed to absurdity with Star Wars. We didn’t have continuity or films based on existing quality stories. That’s why marvel is so great. Every film builds on the other cherry picking quality stories and refining them for movies.

Star Wars could never match that throwing out the EU and ass grabbing a bunch of new people. Solo and rogue one both one shots that didn’t forward the existing plot. Huge massive mistakes abound with the handling of Star Wars that have nothing to do with the Ip and if Lucas arts can’t see that Star Wars is truly fucked.

making stand alones with no focus is going to relegate Star Wars to Disney plus status until Disney decides to make quality, movie worthy stories that go somewhere. Give people a reason to care.

The first 2 films in the sequel trilogy are perfectly fine and the intended plan for the 3rd film capped off the trilogy very nicely. No idea why but the powers that be got cold feet about the original plan for the 3rd film and then put the weight on JJ Abrams shoulders to fix. A bit unfair if you ask me but it definitely sounds like what eventuated with Rise of Skywalker was due to the internet minority complaints of the last Jedi.
 

Toons

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She's entitled to her opinion. I disagree. The ST has a lot more good than bad. Fite me irl nards
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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As a whole yes. But there are great stories in there that could have been made movies. Also the EU is where fan expectations were. Saying “nah fuck that let’s do our own” then arguably making even worse stories……like that’s not a recipe for success at all.

in fact they were overtly proud of going counter expectations which is like being proud of slitting your own throat if you don’t bring the heat.

The thing is, throwing out the EU is not a bad move. They can take what worked and alter it to make them work even better for a visual medium.

The problem is, they had no one who gave a flying fuck directing or writing anything. Honestly the only good Star Wars movie from Disney was Rogue One, IMO. Solo could have been good if they cut out the fucking miserable slacktivist writing and cringey jokes. The Sequel Trilogy though was fucked from the outset.
 

sol_bad

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The thing is, throwing out the EU is not a bad move. They can take what worked and alter it to make them work even better for a visual medium.

The problem is, they had no one who gave a flying fuck directing or writing anything. Honestly the only good Star Wars movie from Disney was Rogue One, IMO. Solo could have been good if they cut out the fucking miserable slacktivist writing and cringey jokes. The Sequel Trilogy though was fucked from the outset.

Slacktivist? Do you mean Lando's droid L3-37? I thought she was hilarious.
:)
 

Madflavor

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My neices couldn't finish the original trilogy, they were bored as fuck. They enjoyed Force Awakens far more. They were 10 and 12 when I first tried showing them the films.
I'm sure there are many more kids out there like that.

Nobody is denying the existence of children who enjoy the ST more than the OT.
 

Ulysses 31

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I had only seen this movie once and did not remember the fight scenes being this terrible. One guy in red just turns around and runs away on the left and one guy on the right just staight up aims for the light saber when kylo has it in the ground. I kind of now want to rewatch the fight scenes in slow motion to see where else it looks silly.
If you pay close attention there's even a weapon that disappears saving Rey's character. It's in a 1 vs 1 with the red guy dual wielding. :messenger_winking_tongue:
 

Madflavor

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TLJ is such a fascinating case study of what not to do in the middle act of a story. The film tore down everything the first film set up, and then left nothing to replace it with and handed it off to the next guy. There wasn't even a hook for TRoS when TLJ came out. In ESB there was Luke finding out Vader's his father, and rescuing Han Solo. In AoC it was knowing the next film was going to show the birth of Vader and the rise of the Empire. In TLJ though? The Resistance was done to like 20 people, and Kylo Ren was the new Supreme Leader, but the way they had portrayed Kylo in the first two films is a non threatening fool, who the protagonist can already match. Rey was also revealed as a Nobody, so the suspense of finding her parents was wiped off the table, and even though Rey Nobody worked for some people, for others it didn't. There was not a whole lot to look forward to.

As stupid as it was, you almost can't blame Lucasfilm for bringing back Palpatine given the situation. But what baffles me the most is how the powers that be didn't see the potential problems Rian Johnson's script created, and didn't move in to course correct.
 
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ManaByte

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As a whole yes. But there are great stories in there that could have been made movies. Also the EU is where fan expectations were. Saying “nah fuck that let’s do our own” then arguably making even worse stories……like that’s not a recipe for success at all.

in fact they were overtly proud of going counter expectations which is like being proud of slitting your own throat if you don’t bring the heat.

There's no way in HELL Disney would've made a Star Wars movie where Chewbacca was dead for 20 years after being crushed by a planet.
 

gatti-man

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The first 2 films in the sequel trilogy are perfectly fine and the intended plan for the 3rd film capped off the trilogy very nicely. No idea why but the powers that be got cold feet about the original plan for the 3rd film and then put the weight on JJ Abrams shoulders to fix. A bit unfair if you ask me but it definitely sounds like what eventuated with Rise of Skywalker was due to the internet minority complaints of the last Jedi.
There was no plan. Nothing I have ever read said after 6 there was any plan for 7 besides loose outlines. Then after 7 JJ is on record as saying there was zero plan. Giving Rian free reign bit them in the ass because there was zero way to have a third film without ass grabbing heroes and villains. The rebellion was like 15 people by the end of 7. Rian left them with nowhere to go.


The thing is, throwing out the EU is not a bad move. They can take what worked and alter it to make them work even better for a visual medium.

The problem is, they had no one who gave a flying fuck directing or writing anything. Honestly the only good Star Wars movie from Disney was Rogue One, IMO. Solo could have been good if they cut out the fucking miserable slacktivist writing and cringey jokes. The Sequel Trilogy though was fucked from the outset.
“Throwing out the EU” means using nothing. And they took nothing that’s the problem. I agree they should use what worked and leave the rest alone. Forging new stories in Star Wars is fine but you better have the writing and plan down which they didn’t.

Rogue one is the only new Star Wars film with a decent plot and script. Period. 6 is forgiven because it’s job was basically to reignite Star Wars and it definitely did that. 7 had brilliant parts but the ending was a complete disaster and 8 was just a culmination of Frankensteining a non existent plot over two other films.
 
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Ionian

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TLJ is such a fascinating case study of what not to do in the middle act of a story. The film tore down everything the first film set up, and then left nothing to replace it with and handed it off to the next guy. There wasn't even a hook for TRoS when TLJ came out. In ESB there was Luke finding out Vader's his father, and rescuing Han Solo. In AoC it was knowing the next film was going to show the birth of Vader and the rise of the Empire. In TLJ though? The Resistance was done to like 20 people, and Kylo Ren was the new Supreme Leader, but the way they had portrayed Kylo in the first two films is a non threatening fool, who the protagonist can already match. Rey was also revealed as a Nobody, so the suspense of finding her parents was wiped off the table, and even though Rey Nobody worked for some people, for others it didn't. There was not a whole lot to look forward to.

As stupid as it was, you almost can't blame Lucasfilm for bringing back Palpatine given the situation. But what baffles me the most is how the powers that be didn't see the potential problems Rian Johnson's script created, and didn't move in to course correct.

Nailed it, was disgusted. Jut didn't bother with TROS.

I skipped the cinema for that. I've beeen watching them since the 70's
 

NahaNago

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If you pay close attention there's even a weapon that disappears saving Rey's character. It's in a 1 vs 1 with the red guy dual wielding. :messenger_winking_tongue:
yeah, I saw it in another video. The guy was should have had a another like short sword like weapon in his left hand to stab rey in the back but it conveniently disappears.

I was thinking about the fight and jedi abilities. Like wouldn't they have been able to push them away with their jedi powers.

Another weird question is if a jedi can lift a large boulder or smaller fighter plane with their minds couldn't they apply that more to their bodies. LIke shouldn't each jedi punch be strong enough to launch a person like 30 feet away or create a miniature light saber that flies around like mcu yondu's weapon. I guess like a telekinetic enhanced body movement or force. We know that they can leap really high with their jedi abilities. jedi yondu
 
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Loke

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Yeh it’s fascinating how much was changed in the edit and how much of a difference it made for the version we saw.

For those who aren’t aware, check out this video:

If Lucas did the Special Editions just to ensure she didn’t get royalties then that’s a pity considering the impact she had. I doubt she’s hurting for money. But still, she played an important role in shaping it.
Funny response to that video.

 
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AJUMP23

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Fuck George Lucas, man. If he cared about Star Wars that much he wouldn't have sold his soul to Disney.
Toxic fans like you convinced him to sell. He was tired of the hate, so he sold it to "the White slavers". He was making the sequels and had the original cast on board, but sold it so he didn't have to deal with the fandom (and 4billion). He did think Disney was going to make his scripts, that was naive, because I bet they threw those out the day the ink dried.
 

MrS

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Toxic fans like you convinced him to sell. He was tired of the hate, so he sold it to "the White slavers". He was making the sequels and had the original cast on board, but sold it so he didn't have to deal with the fandom (and 4billion). He did think Disney was going to make his scripts, that was naive, because I bet they threw those out the day the ink dried.
lmao I'm not even a fan of Star Wars smart guy. Try again.
 
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She's right, the ST is a trainwreck that I basically pretend doesn't even exist, just like all those shitty Terminator movies they churned out after T2.

Shame really, because I actually didn't mind TFA too much, but my god did the following two abominations proceed to absolutely obliterate any and all potential it set up.
 
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