Support NeoGAF

[DeepEnigma]

I doubt we're the bigger market, though I do suspect we're the one with the most disposable income and thus the most valuable.

To buy for our children that want the Goat Simulators and Fortnites.

 

[LectureMaster]

Share mostly the same sentiment with OP.

Other than games become way more expensive to make, I think the overall culture shift also played a key role. I couldn't even imagine the characteristics of Lara Croft in the next Tomb Raider game.

That's why recent years I started focusing more on Japanese games. The craftsmanship core is still in their game making. Plus the usual wacky Japanese charm.

Also, I started to try some genre that was not on my radar, visual novel for example. And holy shit, some of the stories are mind bogglingly stellar and I am in love!

 

[Bernardougf]

It's no secret by now that there are many of us that were not too thrilled, and that is putting it lightly, with the Showcase yesterday.

It has been 2 years since we seen a "PlayStation Showcase," and this was the time right? This was the time to show us a sneak peak of at the very least one or maybe two games their legacy studios are working on, right?

Naughty Dog's Factions 2, especially coming off the massive success of the HBO series, and almost 3 years deep into this generation with a mode that was supposed to launch not far after TLoU Part 2, or even Bluepoint, that launched a stellar remake in Demon's Souls day and date of the PS5 release? It was at least time to announce their project, right? Nada!

Bend? Who have been teasing like the rest of them, more so the past couple of days before the event, where we have not seen a peep out of them other than current year damage control of "inclusivity" as a studio CULTure. Their last release was the divisive Day's Gone, in which I was LTTP and very much enjoyed my time with on the fully patched and stellar running/looking PS5 60fps "version." But again, nothing.

Not even a gameplay trailer for Silent Hill 2, which was, then wasn't, but then was again almost ready to be in a release state, just were bug squashing and optimizing, allegedly.

So I decided to step outside of the Gaf/message board bubble and take a good look at the gaming world as a whole, since like/dislike bombing has been a pretty decent barometer to where gamers get their point across as to their level of satisfaction with such events.

Here are the following likes/dislikes for the show, and trailers of games people on here, would have you to believe gamer's everywhere are not satisfied with:



Gamers must have hated PSVR, right?


How about the Bungie GaaS? We all hate them, right?


People surely hate the Gran Turismo movie trailers, right?


People at least agreed on disliking, albeit not by much as the like ratios above, but they did dislike wish.com Splatoon and accessories, so there's that:



I think it's safe to say that we are the ones now out of touch with modern gaming and are the minority. Sad, but true.

At least we all have those massive backlogs for when it changes into zoomer 8 second attention span crack sample gaming, right Gaf, right?

Or maybe gaming companys are out of touch with their current target audience ... the entertainment industry seems to be plagued by this in the last decade and it finally caught up to games

 

[DeepEnigma]

So basically OP is mad about the games that were not show instead of the game show, so he's looking at dislike rate on the games show and expecting people to hate games because of the ones missing?

This is not a "we" problem. This is not a "old gamers" problem. This is a hater problem.

Nobody is mad. Read, parse, and comprehend.

But hey, you are showing your age/generation by said comprehension and attention span.

 

[Cramoss]

I will say I'm surprised at the amount of gamers around here who think PvP is a dirty term and desperately just want single player story driven games. Like, OK get grampa his solo game so no one can hurt him and his old hands don't have to work too hard.

So this is how you tell us you're insecure

 

[Wildebeest]

I'm out of touch for so long that I've lived to see the younger generation become more out of touch than me.

 

[SlimySnake]

You’re kidding right? Look at your list. Look at the dates. Was 2020 ten years ago? Are you about to die or something?

And MGS4? Where’s destruction all stars? Helldivers 2 doesn’t count?

Your “numbers” don’t an average make. Since this 2020, and taking into account 2023, and only going by your list, that’s 12 games in 3 years which… is 4 games a year average.

I went back and gave you lists from 2007 and 2023 and you are complaining because i gave you more data points?

If you only want to look at dates from 10 years, go ahead and do that. Why are you upset at me giving you MORE data?

If you look at their PS3 and PS4 output and think that Spiderman 2 launching this year is A-OK with FUCK ALL on the horizon then i cant help you.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Has been the case for a long time. Gen Z has abysmal taste. They don't know any better.

When gaming was top tier, we were their age now. But the generation before us had no fucking clue about gaming.

I normally disagree with you, but here? 110% correct.

This is the same generation that loves FortNite, an RNG based shooter filled with MTX and "lol so random" comedy. This is the generation that uses TikTok daily, argues on Twitter daily, and cries about how unfair life is while living in their comfy homes.

Maybe I have become my Father, an old man who is grumpy at seeing his favorite franchises and hobbies falling down the shitter because they are catering to a younger demographic. However, I also like to think I am decently intelligent and can tell when something is mediocre/shit vs something is not my personal taste.

OT:
This presentation was very mediocre. We should have seen what PlayStation had cooking. Instead, we get the thing people were worried most about: GAAS titles and not even gameplay for them, but CGI. That isn't a good showing for the future of PlayStation. We hold Xbox to the same standard, demanding to see what they have coming for first party. We can't just dismiss Sony as "oh they have stuff in the works!" if we can't do the same for Xbox, and rightfully so - we should have seen reasons to own these expensive next gen systems. So far we haven't seen much at all.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

This has been the case since the Internet came about. People who post on sites like this are the more hardcore gamers, and those types are always "out of touch" with what is most popular. If these existed during the SNES/Genesis/NES/PS1 era then you would have seen the same thing. Hell, especially here on GAF, for years you can see pure hatred for titles like Madden or CoD or Fortnite etc and yet they always dominate the charts. Per usual, Nintendo is an exception. Service type games have been the best selling for quite awhile now, Sony is just finally starting to adjust.

 

[Valkyria]

"Becoming"

Forums are out of touch since over a decade.

 

[SlimySnake]

We live in a world when all negativity is shadowban by algorithm, system of downplay and hided/exclude by mods.

We're not out of touch, is just things like alhorithm and social media stuff don't penetrate here.

And you can't use Youtube taking into account that Youtube receive money to allow an option to the channel owner to delete 'dislikes' or even 'disable' commentary section.


DeepEnigma you should start to ask questions for yourself. If someone say to you is 'raining' and other say you is don't, its your fucking job to go to the window check if is really raining or not.

I don't like CGI trailers and I don't give a fuck who like. I still dislike, don't matter the brand. Gameplay > everything else.

Just think a little harder. There are some folks here in neoGAF saying was 'the best show of all', while others saying 'was one the worst show ever made'. Hyperbole can go both sides dude.

This is a good post. I think devs are completely out of touch right now. You have data that shows that Millenials, not Gen Z, spend more on games. Single player games like Elden Rings, GOW, Zelda, Hogwarts literally make a billion dollars in a couple of months. RE4 and Star Wars make $250 million in a few days. gen z loves gaas trash but its us who are keeping this industry alive.

Shows like this are just going to slowly convince us to drop this hobby. If I see nothing that appeals to me, why would i stick around? i already skipped the xbox this gen. I am close to selling my PS5. Phil is already freaking out about starfield not selling well even though it should be a zelda and elden rings type event. probably because he sees engagement numbers down for the same people who buy elden rings and gow. Sony might be enjoying great sales right now, but these events will impact them just like they have xbox.

Any industry that shits on its most loyal fanbase ultimately pays for it. sony will be fine for the next few years but this gaas focus is going to blow up on their face just like Suicide Squad.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[SHA]

Naughty "The Swan Song" Dog, that's who they are unfortunately.

 

[justiceiro]

Nobody is mad. Read, parse, and comprehend.

But hey, you are showing your age/generation by said comprehension and attention span.

Nobody without strong feelings about this would create a topic. Nobody would use like dislike rate as evidence of unless they wanted to see the dislike. Maybe you are the one that didn't comprend your feelings yet.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nobody without strong feelings about this would create a topic. Nobody would use like dislike rate as evidence of unless they wanted to see the dislike. Maybe you are the one that didn't comprend your feelings yet.

Strong feelings =/= mad

I know you young tots have emotional issues and are constantly bombarded about your fee fee's, but I was not mad while typing any of this up. Passionate, sure, but not mad, or "big mad fr fr"

Clearly you did not pick up on some of the sarcasm in the post showing how people overwhelmingly enjoyed the show, and that the over the top reactionary temper tantrums here are the minority.

With that said, disappointments are still warranted.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Nobody without strong feelings about this would create a topic. Nobody would use like dislike rate as evidence of unless they wanted to see the dislike. Maybe you are the one that didn't comprend your feelings yet.

 

[veterangamerUK]

I'm a fifty year old bloke whose one abiding gaming ambition is to finish Rocket Ranger on the Amiga....I have long given up any hope of "having my finger on the button" in regards to what modern gamers likes

Always found it hard taking off in that game timing the running! Not like nowadays where you'd get told "press X to jump" at the right moment.........

 

[Kurotri]

Isn't this just the nature of forums and much less about boomers or whatever? Forums, in many cases the internet in general, was never representative of the actual results. TLOU Part 2 is the perfect example of that imo.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Strong feelings =/= mad

I know you young tots have emotional issues and are constantly bombarded about your fee fee's, but I was not mad while typing any of this up. Passionate, sure, but not mad, or "big mad fr fr"

Clearly you did not pick up on some of the sarcasm in the post showing how people overwhelmingly enjoyed the show, and that the over the top reactionary temper tantrums here are the minority.

With that said, disappointments are still warranted.

 

[Laptop1991]

I have to agree with the OP, i still haven't bought a new game since Cyberpunk in Feb 2021 and i got that for 20 quid, i'm replaying my older games, i don't want to play the new games, and not just because they are mostly broken ports on PC, they don't interest me, hoping Starfield changes that, and i'll get Mirage later on when it's cheaper.

 

[near]

I'm inclined to agree with you, DeepEnigma it's not because you gifted me Gold.

 

[Fake]

DeepEnigma just to give you some ideia about how we're 'out of touch'.


Take for example reddit. When you read any thread on reddit, there are two options to filter the commentary section:

- Top post: Order all posts with receive the most 'like' reaction, in descending order.
- Most popular: "Most popular posts order????????????????????????????"

I mean, you can look for yourself. How can the post that receieve the most number of 'likes' isn't in the 'most popular' section? I mean, wasn't the 'top post' and 'popular post' the same thing?

 

[SmokedMeat]

I showed my 8 year old son a few trailers and the ony game he gave a crap about was Teardown, big time hype for that. Anything with a story or lots of linear gameplay / fighting, none of my kids care. They've grown up on Minecraft, Goat Simulator, and Slime Rancher.

Teardown’s a great game, that requires planning to complete the objectives.

Your son has good taste.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

There are a lot of aspects of modern gaming that we hate, such as madden packs gacha and micro transactions that younger players loooove. I work with a lot of zoomers and they have a blast with that stuff. They get confused when I talk ablut how it's ruining the industry.

 

[Klayzer]

Awesome thread Deep. Somebody should post the Principal Skinner gif.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Teardown’s a great game, that requires planning to complete the objectives.

Your son has good taste.

Teardown actually did look interesting. Like a reverse Minecraft of sorts. Or, destroying your LEGOs with less pain.

There will be a lot of really cool videos being made of some physics post release.

 

[Fbh]

Not necessarily.
Elden Ring was very well liked around here and won our GOTY, and it was one of the best selling games of last year
Tears of the Kingdom is very well liked around here and it sold 10 million units in 3 days.
Most people here also seemed to have enjoyed stuff like Hogwarts Legacy and RE4R, both of which had strong sales.

The thing is, the average user on an enthusiast forum like GAF seems to like the top tier stuff and the more niche stuff.
The part in which we disagree with "the general public" is that middle ground made up of generic designed by committee games that makes up 90% of the AAA industry (specially in the west)

 

[SmokedMeat]

Teardown actually did look interesting. Like a reverse Minecraft of sorts. Or, destroying your LEGOs with less pain.

There will be a lot of really cool videos being made of some physics post release.

There’s already a trillion of them, not to mention mods GALORE.

Just destroying shit is fun.

 

[Portugeezer]

"Hate" is the wrong word.

 

[yet_another_alt]

It's funny how a lot of people here are consoling themselves by calling each other enthusiasts. Yeah, there were plenty of questionable content in the show (like that opener they had that I can't even remember the name of or that ugly ass streaming device) but if you walked away with absolutely nothing that interests you, just get a new hobby cause apparently your current one is bitching and not playing video games.

I'm all for gatekeeping. To that end, if you weren't excited for Dragon's Dogma 2 then consider your "enthusiast" card revoked cause you're just a graphics whore. And considering how the original game looked you've been pretending to like video games since at least 7th gen.

Spoiler

The real litmus test is Plucky Squire. If you weren't at least amused by the art style, you're just dead inside.

I mean, you can look for yourself. How can the post that receieve the most number of 'likes' isn't in the 'most popular' section? I mean, wasn't the 'top post' and 'popular post' the same thing?

Yeah, to this day I'll never understand how a forum that doesn't display dialogue in chronological order became so popular.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Looks about right to me. While I’m not interested in all of the games in that list, I am in many of them, and I certainly wouldn’t bother to click dislike on most of them. And where is the ratio for that $ game?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Looks about right to me. While I’m not interested in all of the games in that list, I am in many of them, and I certainly wouldn’t bother to click dislike on most of them. And where is the ratio for that $ game?

It's safe to say that most did not like what they saw and are tired of the edgy snooty current year trope characters.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Some of these mothafuckers on Gaf are, for sure.

 

[feynoob]

It's safe to say that most did not like what they saw and are tired of the edgy snooty current year trope characters.

the hardware one has 20k dislike, vs 18k like too.

 

[DeepEnigma]

the hardware one has 20k dislike, vs 18k like too.

Yes, that is a close ratio for 48% to 52% (almost a toss up), this one however, is 80% to 20% in favor of disliking the current year trope checklist game.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

No.
It's the children who are wrong.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

It's safe to say that most did not like what they saw and are tired of the edgy snooty current year trope characters.

this is relieving to me.

I'm pretty sure Ive just been off doing my own thing since I got out of high school - the last time I had a current console was PS3 in like 2010, and I ended up selling it for groceries. Since then Ive just kept tabs on the industry, ignored 95% of all AAA stuff, and done my own thing. I think most people have bad taste and are easily manipulable, and those proclivities of the general public have increased over the last 10 years.

The current batch of adults coming out of the education system have some extremely fucked up mental problems, and the kids currently in the education system are doomed, except for those blessed with some sort of internal informational immune system lmao.

But at least the big corpos are making lots of money.

 

[DryvBy]

The fake leaks really ruined it for everyone. I was expecting P.T. and got Splatoon PS5.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The fake leaks really ruined it for everyone. I was expecting P.T. and got Splatoon PS5.

We didn't even get SH2 gameplay when the game was so far along it was almost done, then it wasn't, then it was again.

 

[near]

Not necessarily.
Elden Ring was very well liked around here and won our GOTY, and it was one of the best selling games of last year
Tears of the Kingdom is very well liked around here and it sold 10 million units in 3 days.
Most people here also seemed to have enjoyed stuff like Hogwarts Legacy and RE4R, both of which had strong sales.

The thing is, the average user on an enthusiast forum like GAF seems to like the top tier stuff and the more niche stuff.
The part in which we disagree with "the general public" is with GaaS and F2P multiplayer games.

I fixed your post for you.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Glad to be "out of touch" with "modern gamers" eww... at least I'm not a silly Boomer. I'm a gen Xer baybeh.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Glad to be "out of touch" with "modern gamers" eww... at least I'm not a silly Boomer. I'm a gen Xer baybeh.

Boomer lost all meaning like Racist, Bigot, Nazi, etc, etc.. We know what it really means in describing a certain generation timescale. The gen zombies use it as "extra clapback fr fr" anyone even if only a decade older that gives them a side eye for the utmost idiocy and poor taste.

 

[Topher]

 

[Banjo64]

We’re in touch because there’s always been an awareness that 90% of the money in console gaming is in the causal market and they buy GTA, vbucks, FIFA and CoD in their droves.

However there was always the expectation that we’d be thrown a morsel by the console manufacturers. This used to look like all 10 of their in-house studios pumping out a trilogy and more every 6 year generation. Now we’re getting 1 game a pop from them all every 6 years or so.

 

[VN1X]

GAF is just normie central now. Half of you just blurt out whatever shower thought occurred to you and pretend it's anything more than that. Poorly written at that.

If GAF were to be believed something like Spidey 2 is an "ugly looking game" lol.

 

[Dr. Claus]

GAF is just normie central now. Half of you just blurt out whatever shower thought occurred to you and pretend it's anything more than that. Poorly written at that.

If GAF were to be believed something like Spidey 2 is an "ugly looking game" lol.

You clearly hate GAF, so why post here if all you do is shit on it? Between here and Discord, move on mate.

If you are so easily triggered by different opinions, maybe get off the internet entirely.

 

[DeepEnigma]

GAF is just normie central now. Half of you just blurt out whatever shower thought occurred to you and pretend it's anything more than that. Poorly written at that.

If GAF were to be believed something like Spidey 2 is an "ugly looking game" lol.

Is GAF in the room with you right now?

 

[feynoob]

We’re in touch because there’s always been an awareness that 90% of the money in console gaming is in the causal market and they buy GTA, vbucks, FIFA and CoD in their droves.

However there was always the expectation that we’d be thrown a morsel by the console manufacturers. This used to look like all 10 of their in-house studios pumping out a trilogy and more every 6 year generation. Now we’re getting 1 game a pop from them all every 6 years or so.

Because technology evolves with time, which is why games take too long these days. From training to planing to making the game, to high fidelity arts, to complicated coding. All these affects the timeline of making games. Especially AAA games.

Also Most games dont really make that much money. Unless you are first party games, you dont generate alot of money.

10m copy games with average price of 55$ can generate $550m. If its 3rd party game, that is $385m(30% goes to the platform holder). Then that money is used to cover the budget of the game, then the remaining gets breakdown between publisher and devs.
Console makers dont get charged for 30%, so they deduct the budget, and split the remaining between them and the developers.

The lesser copies sold, the less money those companies make. If you sell bellow the expected sales, you are incurring losses. Its why these companies are focusing on live service games. They make more than their budget. And lucky ones generate over $1b revenue.

 

[Banjo64]

Oh and the morsels we received we expected to be games like Shadow of the Colossus and God of War where 1-3m sales were acceptable because it was about providing us with something special - we’re now seeing Microsoft and Sony pivot to GAAS (profit over good vibes I guess) which yeah, not going to be our bag in a lot of cases.

 

[Banjo64]

Because technology evolves with time, which is why games take too long these days. From training to planing to making the game, to high fidelity arts, to complicated coding. All these affects the timeline of making games. Especially AAA games.

Also Most games dont really make that much money. Unless you are first party games, you dont generate alot of money.

10m copy games with average price of 55$ can generate $550m. If its 3rd party game, that is $385m(30% goes to the platform holder). Then that money is used to cover the budget of the game, then the remaining gets breakdown between publisher and devs.
Console makers dont get charged for 30%, so they deduct the budget, and split the remaining between them and the developers.

The lesser copies sold, the less money those companies make. If you sell bellow the expected sales, you are incurring losses. Its why these companies are focusing on live service games. They make more than their budget. And lucky ones generate over $1b revenue.

That’s a problem for Sony to fix, not for me to suffer through as a consumer.

They could hypothetically own their big 6-10 studios and then buy 10 really promising indie/AA devs to fill out the schedule and deliver games like Journey and like SotC, but they aren’t interested because games where you can see horse testicles make bank.